Every Arena Match I've been in, Focus Sorc/Sage

[Odyseus]

There are many reasons why sorc/sage should get some buffs in this game. WoW classes and mechanics are not amongst them.

 

Yes they are, being that this game borrowed heavily from WOW when designing the classes in the first place. The point of showing that is to give you a basic idea on how to balance a ranged class in MMO combat. Most Sorc's who use this class as their mains had Warlock mains in WoW. That's why we were drawn to the class due to it's similarity.

[ErikGW]

Yes they are, being that this game borrowed heavily from WOW when designing the classes in the first place. The point of showing that is to give you a basic idea on how to balance a ranged class in MMO combat. Most Sorc's who use this class as their mains had Warlock mains in WoW. That's why we were drawn to the class due to it's similarity.

 

If WOW was so great they wouldnt have lost 90% of their players.

 

Mimicking a failed game that is still trying to continue their fail is not really a good strategy (Wow just put out a new expansion, right?)

 

What MMO PVP needs is something new, innovative, insightful and with HEAVILY ACTIVE DEVS THAT DO ONLY THAT AS THEIR JOB. Class balance should always be evolving.

 

Then take the PTS server when its not live beta and launch cross server pvp ladder tournaments. Charge 100 cartel coins per entry. 1st place gets 50% of the coins as a prize, 2nd gets 30%, 3rd gets 20%. Do a tournament like that often.

 

Make something other than WOW that appeals to the affluent 25-35 age gamers rather than the younger people that dont have as much readily expendable income.

Edited October 3, 2013 by ErikGW

[Methanos]

WTT healing abilities for defensive cooldowns. Honestly, I'd prefer if they just put Dark Heal/Dark Infusion in heal tree, and defensive cooldowns in DPS trees.

[glocklB]

U get stun locked and bursted any sane person knows u have to barrier . Any smart cloaker recloaks. Bottom line is u are entirely dependent on your team to save ur ***. On my commando I can recover from a cloak attack From 2 cloakers

 

I see you're talking about 1v4 scenario. In that case you're really screwed bro.

[Hyrune]

IMO the best defense for Sage/Sorc is the rest of the team and a wise use of its own CDs/Heal.

If the 3 other team mates are ignoring you without guard switch/taunt/cc/heal you will go down in seconds.

[AdrianDmitruk]

The great irony of this is Bioware tells us that hybrid specs>pure specs is not intended from one side of its mouth, that sorcs need to L2P/LOS/H2F/MTP out of the other side of its mouth--and yet to be viable in arenas we must go hybrid.

 

I played full corruption between 2.0 and 2.4. It's simply not viable after 2.4, because our ability to impair melee pursuit of us is negligible. We can run away, but we cannot readily delay a leap right back, because we only have our 10m stun (that we can actually get off). This is instantly broken as melee knows that everything else can be interrupted.

 

(Don't tell me l2slow, yes we have one but melee has about 2-3 times as many and leaps for which slow does nothing, so while it has its uses it's often a waste of a valuable GCD.)

 

This is acceptable in 8v8s because we are very slippery and have a team to hide behind. We can kite away from objective if need be to force enemy to target switch (if they don't, they pay when our team caps). Arenas don't have that.

 

Therefore, even nerfed and neuted, the bubblestun heal hybrid is back, for the simple reason that we need some form of auxiliary CC to survive in an environment where there probably isn't a tank and probably isn't anyone else to cross-heal us. It is the only viable way for sorcs to arena heal, and given that you can't have an arena spec and a warzone spec, yes bubblestun is probably coming (BACK! ARRRRRGGGGGGH) to a warzone near you.

 

We need that three second window to sprint away, LOS, heal to full. The bubblemez Makes Them Pay for wasting their stunbreak. In other words, a hybrid spec fills the dev-described intentions of how the sorc should be played better than pure builds (because the only available CC for kiting healers is in lightning, madness wants it too), despite Bioware's stance that pure specs should always be better than hybrids.

 

What does that say about Bioware's class balance/design for the sorc? It can't be good.

 

I have learned to play the sorcerer class, but the skill level with which I allocate my points may be higher than what the devs are comfortable with.

Edited October 4, 2013 by AdrianDmitruk

[Laforet]

I have learned to play the sorcerer class, but the skill level with which I allocate my points may be higher than what the devs are comfortable with.

 

lulz.

[Capt_Beers]

I focus Sorcs because they will rip your team apart if left to free cast.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Sorc/sage and Gunslingers/snipers have to die right away period. Not because the class is underpowered, but because you hurt so bad if you're allowed to do your work.

 

Wait. You say that both "hurt so bad if you're allowed to do your work", and then you use for "executing them" exactly those classes which are already KNOWN to be far overpowered ?

 

No, no, no. In my opinion, you are turning the victim into the harasser now

(which is an usual tactic of rapists, by the way).

[Methanos]

I focus Sorcs because they will rip your team apart if left to free cast.

 

True, but the primary reason people focus Sorcs is cos they're squishy I mean, as a DPS Sorc myself, even I target the opposing Sages/Sorcs before any other class.

[Laforet]

I focus Sorcs because they will rip your team apart if left to free cast.

 

ANY DPS class in the game if left unchecked will do massive damage, that includes mercs (any spec) and even concealment ops.

 

Try again.

[Kadjunga]

for christs sake.

 

if you are going to face tank as a sorc then your dead. No doubt about it. I have faced multiple sorcs that actually know what their doing and even when their focused, they manage to make a clean getaway and lay down good dps.

 

If you are going to cry that you can no longer stand still and faceroll on the keyboard and hope to win then... ranked arenas are not for you and you should just leave.

 

Learn to play the class and stop whining. A well played balance sorc is the perfect counter for smash monkies.

[Methanos]

Learn to play the class and stop whining. A well played balance sorc is the perfect counter for smash monkies.

 

A "well played balance (sage) is the perfect counter for smash." That statement proves you actually have no experience of the class you're talking about. Full Balance can overcome a smasher in a 1v1... depending on the skill of the smasher, but in arenas? No chance. And frankly, full Balance doesn't have the burst to play competitively in arenas anyway.

 

Instead of wading in on a discussion which you don't wholly understand, perhaps you should take a trip to the Prehistoric era. I hear they have people better matched to your level of intellect.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Sorcerors / Sages are *not* facetanking - the others are just jumping towards our faces ! What can we do against a Jedi / Sith who has just decided to do a full smash monkey jump just right before our faces ?

 

We are *not* facetaking - everyone else wants to facetank US !

 

It's like ... Sorcerors / Sages being like cars driving against the rest of the motorhighway ... on the wrong side ...

[Ghingis]

A "well played balance (sage) is the perfect counter for smash." That statement proves you actually have no experience of the class you're talking about. Full Balance can overcome a smasher in a 1v1... depending on the skill of the smasher, but in arenas? No chance. And frankly, full Balance doesn't have the burst to play competitively in arenas anyway.

 

Instead of wading in on a discussion which you don't wholly understand, perhaps you should take a trip to the Prehistoric era. I hear they have people better matched to your level of intellect.

 

Actually, the abilities a balance sage has is probably the best counter (on paper), that you can get against smash.

[AlrikFassbauer]

I ran Group Ranked Arenas last night with two Sorcs (one Heal, one DPS). My PT was the Tank. The guard swap on the two Sorcs was constant in every match. With Guard and Taunts, both Sorcs did a pretty good job of surviving.

 

However, one properly timed Stun on my Tank that impeded a Guard swap resulted in a dead Sorc almost every time if their Force Barrier was blown. My final impression from the matches: Sorc survivability without team support is pretty lean.

 

Ranked is something entirely different to u55 PUGging. Don't even try to compare both.

Edited October 4, 2013 by AlrikFassbauer

[Methanos]

Actually, the abilities a balance sage has is probably the best counter (on paper), that you can get against smash.

 

I won't deny that Balance Sage has some counter for smash, but perfect counter? Not by a long shot. Especially since Sever Force hasn't been omni-directional since 2.0. In honesty, I personally don't think we really have a problem in warzones - but in arenas, full Balance isn't going to make a cent of difference.

 

The fact is that nobody's asking to be a perfect counter for smash, but it can't be denied that in 90% of warzones/arenas, you target/focus the Sage/Sorc first, because they're the squishiest. Yes, they can match the damage of Sentinels and Gunslingers if left to free-cast - but let's face it - regardless of that fact, you kill them first, because they're the squishiest.

 

As I've said in another thread, in a traditional MMO, light armoured casters do the most damage, and their light armour is the sacrifice they make for that damage. Here in SWTOR, Sentinels, Gunslingers and Sages can pump out similar damage, so why take a squishy Sage, when you can take a class who won't die so quickly?

Edited October 4, 2013 by Methanos

[foxmob]

This is getting stupid. I'm already 4 pieces in on the new gear, rest min maxed Conqueror gear. Very experienced PVPer, have the max defensive talents I can attain, and I get focused each and every time as a Sorc. Healers tell me I'm the hardest class to heal for. Whenever there's 2 or more melee DPS I have almost no chance. Out of Stealth, comes the Assasian/Shadow/OP I'm immediately stunned, followed by the leap from Maruader/Sent/Jugg, so I have to immediately bubble because I'm at 35% already in just a few seconds of engagement, once that's over I'm immediately blown up. All while I'm popping adrenals, medpacks, etc. When It comes to PVP ranged classes need to have a high defensive spec as an option. Like being an Ice Mage, or Soul Link/Demonology spec in WoW. Now I feel like I'm a detriment to my team. Because the word is out in Arena, if there's a Sorc focus him, game, set, match. It's amazing I still have a winning record at this point.

 

I don't know how effective this strat is when elite teams play each other, but in the solo rated Q, sorc/sage is an easy kill and will always be the primary target no matter what his role is. It's the only class I don't play, so I'm not complaining about it. it is, however, a fact that sorcs/sages are the one grp of opponents I can identify purely by AC as the weak link. and if I recognize an actual baddie on the other team, I'll still kill the sorc/sage first, because the baddie free casting (or w/e) is less dangerous.

 

push a sage/sorc into bubble and he's useless to his team for ~8s? Now it becomes a 4v3. focus a sorc/sage after the bubble, and he has no appreciable mitigation. you'll either kill him or his tank, and the other will be ripe for a 2nd kill.

[foxmob]

Arena is only for warrior speccs and for operative healers, get used to that. Other classes and speccs, in particular sorcs, do not qualify for arenas by design. At least not as long as warriors and operative healers stay the way they are now.

 

VGs and Mandos are doing just fine on my server. Sins aren't bad either when their team focus targets properly.

 

I've yet to see a worthwhile dps op/scoun. but I only have 25-30 matches under belt and they're all solo rated.

[foxmob]

Cloaker team? If a bunch of burst stealthers open up and stunlock any class they are dead without cc break/ team support unless they're a tank. Sage has god bubble which is a stronger tool against this then any other class..

 

bubble is possible the worst or most deceptive dcd in the game. you'll stay alive, but you take yourself out of the fight while doing so. if you're a healer, you just got your teammate killed (not that you had much of a choice). if you're a dps (on a balanced team), then the other healer won't be under any pressure and his dps + tank can focus burning w/o much worry about having to peel.

 

imo, 4v4 reduces barrier to a glorified cleanse. sorcs/sages need to use it briefly. I guess that's a L2P issue too. but damn. full barrier = get someone else killed 99% of the time.

[glocklB]

Actually, the abilities a balance sage has is probably the best counter (on paper), that you can get against smash.

 

lol? Let me chime in a bit, coz I addicted to dueling in madness spec. It's very good dueling spec against non-sorc classes, and a sorc should probably win most duels against any marauder smasher with all skills up. The problem is that even here sorc will have to use all his long cooldowns (ww, bubble, polarity shift, recklessness + breaker might be needed as well) to win this 1v1 even against an average smasher.

 

Alright, now back to the quote. What abilities show that balance sage is the best counter to smasher marauder comparing (for example) to sniper or deception assassin? I foresee you are gonna mention sever force, which doesn't actually give a lot against smashers. What else?

[skarlson]

H2F and MTP. The metrics have spoken. Don't worry, in 5 or 6 patches Bioware will notice there is a problem because of their metrics and in 7 or 10 patches we will see a fix. Just be patient! Edited October 4, 2013 by skarlson

[DarthOvertone]

Ranked is something entirely different to u55 PUGging. Don't even try to compare both.

 

Ranked is the only thing that matters. What are you even referring to?

[MusicRider]

Playing sages in arenas isn't fun. Having the shortest time-to-die with most of the good specs being totally shutdown, leaving as the only option some dot spec with no burst and messing up any attempt of cc from your team just to have the fake feeling of contribution to the fight is tragic.

 

And barrier, so lovely, thinking of having a macro that pops a message "brb" when used.

 

And no I don't want to face tank anyone, I want to create some bloody distance when my CDs are up, not be screamed, dispatched, shocked, breached, obliterated, rooted, snared, stunned every time I force speed or kb. All gap closers are on shorter CDs than gap creators so you'll get your change and without much thought while a sage every gcd has to think move or hit/heal. At the moment melee get their chance even after the use of a bloody gap creator ability.

Edited October 4, 2013 by MusicRider

[Targarion]

I play a seer (consular healer) and I know what you mean by being picked on for wearing light armor.

 

I start off the fight running behind things to disrupt LOS. If two or more smashers jump on me I just throw on bubble shield. They blow all their cool downs and waste precious seconds on me while my team is focusing on their healer.

 

I CC one smasher and force run to where my group is. I instantly bubble myself and cast a few heals. I make sure to cleans my debuffs or DOTS every chance I get. Surprisingly most pvpers realize how essential cleanses are.

 

Once one or two players die, I help out with damage dealing.