Stavroz Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 As a spec its is fine. No qq its stong but not OP imo. The problem arises b/c the spec is not linked to the cell. So we have Vang/PTs in middle tree with ion cell on doing about 95% of the dmg output of the dps spec with all the benefits of 50% armour mitigation and gaurd. Its a cheesy and makes other tanks obsolete. Imagine if a Jug could lol smash while in Soresu form. PPl would lose there $hit. But they cant b/c the spec is tied in very closley to the shi cho form. Much like infiltration is tied to shadow technique. This needs to be addressed in 2.5. Imo Havok training talent and the Pulse engine talent need to be tied to the high energy cell. They do that and the problem is solved. No nerf to the dps spec at all but solves the cheesy spec issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morde_ Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 But warriors! Warriors are OP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackNader Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Should have been corrected in 2.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stavroz Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 But warriors! Warriors are OP! ehehe well they still run double PT "WARRIOR" OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stavroz Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 ehehe well they still run double PT "WARRIOR" OP. DOUBLE mara teams are strong not going to lie bu they can be countered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 So basically the one single hybrid that makes bring a vanguard tank worthwile over a jug tnak should be removed? Also straight AP in ion cell is hardly tanky at all its not like armor means much of anything in pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shioji Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 yeah i agree with stav buff Vanguards but nerf the juggs and dps Ops thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunner_Venda Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Fix it with one change. Tie either immolate or the 30% PFT surge talent to HEGC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stavroz Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 So basically the one single hybrid that makes bring a vanguard tank worthwile over a jug tnak should be removed? Also straight AP in ion cell is hardly tanky at all its not like armor means much of anything in pvp. The point is to make it worth choosing any one of the 3 tanks. Not 1 tank to the exclusion of all other tanks. Pre 2.4 it was stupid that the Jug was chosen over other tanks and now the Hybrid will be chosen over all other tanks. Same with the healers. Its currently stupid that the OP is chosen over all the other healer. Dps is slightly different atm there are a few viable dps classes. Mara, PT, Snipers, Mercs and even Sorcs are all viable. Some are easier to play then others but all the top teams, MVP, Casual, Don't Panic, Drama have had success with many combinations of these DPS classes. But let me guess you play a Vangaurd/PT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrGrzecka Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 The point is to make it worth choosing any one of the 3 tanks. Not 1 tank to the exclusion of all other tanks. Pre 2.4 it was stupid that the Jug was chosen over other tanks and now the Hybrid will be chosen over all other tanks. Same with the healers. Its currently stupid that the OP is chosen over all the other healer. Dps is slightly different atm there are a few viable dps classes. Mara, PT, Snipers, Mercs and even Sorcs are all viable. Some are easier to play then others but all the top teams, MVP, Casual, Don't Panic, Drama have had success with many combinations of these DPS classes. But let me guess you play a Vangaurd/PT? Remember when you ran a AP Vanguard tank? It wasn't op then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishbindeinvater Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 As a spec its is fine. No qq its stong but not OP imo. The problem arises b/c the spec is not linked to the cell. So we have Vang/PTs in middle tree with ion cell on doing about 95% of the dmg output of the dps spec with all the benefits of 50% armour mitigation and gaurd. Its a cheesy and makes other tanks obsolete. Imagine if a Jug could lol smash while in Soresu form. PPl would lose there $hit. But they cant b/c the spec is tied in very closley to the shi cho form. Much like infiltration is tied to shadow technique. This needs to be addressed in 2.5. Imo Havok training talent and the Pulse engine talent need to be tied to the high energy cell. They do that and the problem is solved. No nerf to the dps spec at all but solves the cheesy spec issue. what you say about lol smash and soresu isnt really true. did you ever go shii form, hit enrage, then went to soresu? the shockwave buffs remain, and you still get the automatic crits. its tricky to play, but it works. and you can change by the fly. you cant do that as a PT. its biowares fault that the other cylinders arent that great. i mean +1 percent internal damage with high enegy gas cylinder is a great joke. give them a reason to take HEGC over IGC. and please, dont compare them to juggs. AP PTs got no gap closer, just grapple which adds to resolve and is on a rather long CD. They are slow when in IGC. they got no oil slick. they got no saber reflect..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyDragonflame Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Its really, seems cryin' and whinin baddies on forums ruined the game. Crying about self-healing watchman/annihilation - get SMASH maras as result. Crying about operatives dps - get unkillable operatives HEALERS as result. Crying about pyro dps powertechs - get hybrid TANKS as result. So keep crying and whining. You make game only worse every time when you just onen your mouth on forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stavroz Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 Remember when you ran a AP Vanguard tank? It wasn't op then U must have me confused. I never played a AP Tank Vanguard. Or are you referring to the "team" not me specifically? When i have played we never ran a tank hybrid ap VG only a DPS Tactics vangaurd with high energy cell (Goes). I know when the team switched to there Imp alts Koozie played an AP Tank PT. That team took Don't Panic out 3 games in a row. Coincidence? I think not. I would like to see that feat repeated with out a Tank hybrid PT. It might not play out the same. So yes it is OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishbindeinvater Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Its really, seems cryin' and whinin baddies on forums ruined the game. Crying about self-healing watchman/annihilation - get SMASH maras as result. Crying about operatives dps - get unkillable operatives HEALERS as result. Crying about pyro dps powertechs - get hybrid TANKS as result. So keep crying and whining. You make game only worse every time when you just onen your mouth on forum. +1 and crying because other players regardless of the class played, are just better players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iDraxter Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 they only switch the cell and stay in dps gear and power generator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 The real problem with it is the solo ranked Q. You are 4dps vs 4 dps, but oh wait the enemy has 3,5dps and a tank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyDragonflame Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 The real problem with it is the solo ranked Q. You are 4dps vs 4 dps, but oh wait the enemy has 3,5dps and a tank How long tankasins in dps gear were OP? From 1.2 until 2.0, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vimm Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 A lot of it is tied to the cell/cylinder - get out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vimm Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 And jugs can smash in Soresu! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stavroz Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 A lot of it is tied to the cell/cylinder - get out. The only thing tied to the cell is energy management and an insta crit HiB/Railshot. All the DPS/surge bonus is not tied to anything as well as the super pulse cannon/flame thrower. And jugs can smash in Soresu! They can not build 3 stacks of singularity without Shi cho and they nor can they get the free blade storm after leap which are all key to the spec. Also they can't reduce the active cool down of sweep/smash without schi cho. The basic principles of the lol smash build is tied to the stance. Changing stance DRASTICALLY impacts the damage output of the class in the spec. Learn the class b4 commenting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theagg Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 The real problem with it is the solo ranked Q. You are 4dps vs 4 dps, but oh wait the enemy has 3,5dps and a tank Ahh yes, got that 'mismatch' a few times yesterday. Four pure DPS on our side, DPS and DPS/off healer on theirs. Plus, all DPS are not equal, two DPS Tactics Vanguards does not equate to two DPS smashers, the latter being far more mobile for starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theagg Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 So basically the one single hybrid that makes bring a vanguard tank worthwile over a jug tnak should be removed? Also straight AP in ion cell is hardly tanky at all its not like armor means much of anything in pvp. Well, armor mitigates two of the damage types (kinetic and energy) and a lot of attacks in pvp do those kinds of damage, including smash. So, it is useful. Especially handy against armor debuffs as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 The point is to make it worth choosing any one of the 3 tanks. Not 1 tank to the exclusion of all other tanks. Pre 2.4 it was stupid that the Jug was chosen over other tanks and now the Hybrid will be chosen over all other tanks. Same with the healers. Its currently stupid that the OP is chosen over all the other healer. Dps is slightly different atm there are a few viable dps classes. Mara, PT, Snipers, Mercs and even Sorcs are all viable. Some are easier to play then others but all the top teams, MVP, Casual, Don't Panic, Drama have had success with many combinations of these DPS classes. But let me guess you play a Vangaurd/PT? Why would you choose a hybrid over the other tanks, unless your stacking it with two other AP PTs? On its own the hybrid's PC isn't half as strong as pure APs unless the hybrid is full dps gear at which point it is no longer a tank but rather a gimped dps. And please my jug in unaugmented tank gear can get 5K dispatches and 4k ravage ticks. But the second a vanguard tank can do anything approaching that, everyone starts QQ up a storm. Also btw, jug tanks are still vastly superior over both van hybrid and full tank van. Also I like how you say :will be chosen" instead of "is chosen" - you have no idea what the future will look like your just preemptively QQ'ing about something your not even sure about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Well, armor mitigates two of the damage types (kinetic and energy) and a lot of attacks in pvp do those kinds of damage, including smash. So, it is useful. Especially handy against armor debuffs as well. You realize that smash has a innate 30% armor penetration. Sniper's MM tree has base armor pen on ambush, plus a armor pen offensive cooldown plus a flat armor debuff. Commandos have a armor pen stance plus a armor debuff. Combat has a 100% armor pen skill. Armor is crap, stop pretenting it means anything. Also jug tanks are within 1% on armor to vanguards with only 6 points into their tank tree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrGrzecka Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 U must have me confused. I never played a AP Tank Vanguard. Or are you referring to the "team" not me specifically? When i have played we never ran a tank hybrid ap VG only a DPS Tactics vangaurd with high energy cell (Goes). I know when the team switched to there Imp alts Koozie played an AP Tank PT. That team took Don't Panic out 3 games in a row. Coincidence? I think not. I would like to see that feat repeated with out a Tank hybrid PT. It might not play out the same. So yes it is OP. I'm referring to your team. Goes or w/e played AP Tank, Also wasn't that don't panics imp team with a elite war hero rage jugg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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