Hahahahah

[snaplemouton]

No you have the mechanic wrong. Defense and miss are in the same roll.

You have 91% accuracy your target has 5% defense.

So you have a 915 chance to hit, a 4% chance to miss and a 5% chance for the target to dodge.

So if your under 95% accuracy your chance to not hit is the same as 100 - accuracy

 

If 95%<accuracy<100% then your chance to hit is 95% because of the defense offset.

If your accuracy + target's defense > 100% than you have a 0% chance to miss but as long as accuracy < defense + 100 there is a small chance for a dodge.

Care to link where you read that?

Because from everywhere I saw accuracy only reduce defense chance above 100% and below 100% it's chance to miss.

 

 

Last I checked only obliterate is a melee attack, charge I believe is force, meaning its not going to miss, unless you have the sniper's smoke grenade on you

Force leap is a white attack. It isn't considered force. Meaning it's going to miss or get dodged.

[Zoom_VI]

EDIT: It is white damage but the root effect is a force attack meaning even if the charge misses the target is still rooted.

Assuming they aren't charging a HTL or Egress

Edited October 4, 2013 by Zoom_VI

[Technohic]

I thought that they always have like a 5% chance of an attack to miss regardless of accuract so that at 95% accuracy is no different than 100%?

[L-RANDLE]

This what?

My point is perfectly valid.

Force leap can be dodged.

Getting dodged on force leap is a far bigger DPS lost then any amount of surge.

 

No wonder every freaking knight/warrior complains about scoundrel/operative healers. They play the only class without a non-channeled hard stun and don't get the accuracy needed to root their target.

 

Because you are 100% wrong especially in the case of a Combat Sent...

[Zoom_VI]

I thought that they always have like a 5% chance of an attack to miss regardless of accuract so that at 95% accuracy is no different than 100%?

5% base dodge chance carried by all classes. Accuracy beyond 95% is pointless for PvP

[Brunner_Venda]

105%?! 110%!? do you even realize that in order to do that you would have to stack accuracy high enhancements on every single piece of gear you have?

if you hit 95% accuracy your in a perfect spot, gearing at all for that RNG chance is pointless, particularly since every point between 95% and 100% is entirely useless and higher than that the DR curve is ridiculously heavy to the point that its not worth it.

 

Yes 110% accuracy means you will never ever miss, but all your guaranteed hits are all going to hit like wet noodles.

You should never gear for that small chance of a dodge, because 95% of your attacks are going to hit, so dropping the damage delt by 95% of your attacks is not worth hitting an extra 5% of the time

 

Just an FYI: for those that don't know this.

 

The 'counter scores' for accuracy are alacrity (useless) and surge (subject to serious diminishing returns after the 75% mark)

 

Accuracy will never ever cost you crit or power, because accuracy, alacrity, and surge will always be paired with one of those two (make sense?). I'm talking DPS gear here, not tank shield/defense/etc.

 

A 5% miss rate means that one in twenty of your attacks misses. It's a 5% damage reduction for the attacks that are subject to it.

 

On my PT I stacked accuracy to 95% ranged and 105% tech (including the companion bonus) anything more would hit surge too hard. Most of my DPS is tech, so that works well.

Edited October 4, 2013 by Brunner_Venda

[Zoom_VI]

Just an FYI: for those that don't know this.

 

The 'counter scores' for accuracy are alacrity (useless) and surge (subject to serious diminishing returns after the 75% mark)

 

Accuracy will never ever cost you crit or power, because accuracy, alacrity, and surge will always be paired with one of those two (make sense?). I'm talking DPS gear here, not tank shield/defense/etc.

 

A 5% miss rate means that one in twenty of your attacks misses. It's a 5% damage reduction for the attacks that are subject to it.

 

On my PT I stacked accuracy to 95% ranged and 105% tech (including the companion bonus) anything more would hit surge too hard. Most of my DPS is tech, so that works well.

 

Right, but getting accuracy beyond 95% is also pointless because you lose way to much Surge in doing so, particularly for carnage which benefits from little surge from tree

[snaplemouton]

Force leap isn't a force attack. It is a main hand weapon attack.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=469116

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=220135

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=578104

Need more links?

Just go read force leap description. It's a main hand attack.

 

As for accuracy, it is 90% base accuracy on main hand attacks and around 50-60% chance on off hand attacks.

Special attacks is yellow damage.

A combat sentinel is mostly white damage therefor having below 105% chance is risking to miss. Especially since force leap IS a main hand attack. Obviously number crunching are needed to see the exact amount you should get to get a maximum output. But like I said, missing in PvP is a huge factor and should never be taken lightly.

No 95% isn't 100% chance to hit. 100% accuracy is 100% chance to hit. Anything above 100% is a reduction in defense chance for the enemy.

And again, I ask you to show me any link that prove otherwise because there is nothing but misinformation everywhere on the web about accuracy.

Edited October 4, 2013 by snaplemouton

[Zoom_VI]

95% accuracy + 5% target defense chance = 100%

There is zero chance for a "miss" only a "dodge" or "hit"

[snaplemouton]

95% accuracy + 5% target defense chance = 100%

There is zero chance for a "miss" only a "dodge" or "hit"

Again, post link to prove your claims.

95% accuracy means you have 5% chance to miss your attacks against a 0% defense chance and 5% chance to miss and 5% chance to get dodged on a 5% defense chance.

[Zez-Kai-Ell]

Right, but getting accuracy beyond 95% is also pointless because you lose way to much Surge in doing so, particularly for carnage which benefits from little surge from tree

 

sorry? you are saying combat have a skill that gives surge?

[Zoom_VI]

Force leap isn't a force attack. It is a main hand weapon attack.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=469116

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=220135

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=578104

Need more links?

Just go read force leap description. It's a main hand attack.

 

As for accuracy, it is 90% base accuracy on main hand attacks and around 50-60% chance on off hand attacks.

Special attacks is yellow damage.

A combat sentinel is mostly white damage therefor having below 105% chance is risking to miss. Especially since force leap IS a main hand attack. Obviously number crunching are needed to see the exact amount you should get to get a maximum output. But like I said, missing in PvP is a huge factor and should never be taken lightly.

No 95% isn't 100% chance to hit. 100% accuracy is 100% chance to hit. Anything above 100% is a reduction in defense chance for the enemy.

And again, I ask you to show me any link that prove otherwise because there is nothing but misinformation everywhere on the web about accuracy.

 

Educate yourself

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/19/understanding-swtors-avoidance-and-mitigation-mechanics-for-tanks-in-pvp/ -note, this was written pre-2.0 so the shielding bit has some incorrect data, but Dodge has never been changed

[Helig]

sorry? you are saying combat have a skill that gives surge?

Probably referring to Blade Storm crit damage.

[Raansu]

This what?

My point is perfectly valid.

Force leap can be dodged.

Getting dodged on force leap is a far bigger DPS lost then any amount of surge.

 

No wonder every freaking knight/warrior complains about scoundrel/operative healers. They play the only class without a non-channeled hard stun and don't get the accuracy needed to root their target.

 

I've been playing sentinel/jugg since launch. Do you know how often my force leap misses outside of abilities that are immune to roots? Practically never. I hover around 95% accuracy and I honestly cannot remember the last time I actually had a leap miss and not root. And even if it does...its hardly detrimental to a combat sent who has two other roots and a focus sent who has a second leap and watchmen sent who has a slow on dots and the class itself has leg slash for all 3 specs which is a 12 second slow.

 

The only reason to ever push to 110% is for doing operations.

[Zoom_VI]

sorry? you are saying combat have a skill that gives surge?

No that's why you don't want to lose any to accuracy

 

The saber storm talent does give 30% "surge" to a couple abilities (critical strike damage, not related to your stat points but added effect)

However since PvP is about burst and that spec doesn't get much to begin with, getting as much surge as a Sent is a must, particularly sinc ethey have 96% accuracy without any points or even the companion buff

[snaplemouton]

Educate yourself

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/19/understanding-swtors-avoidance-and-mitigation-mechanics-for-tanks-in-pvp/ -note, this was written pre-2.0 so the shielding bit has some incorrect data, but Dodge has never been changed

 

Educate myself?

There is nowhere in that article saying what you claim.

Show me the quote where it says accuracy under 100% reduce defense chance.

[Zoom_VI]

I've been playing sentinel/jugg since launch. Do you know how often my force leap misses outside of abilities that are immune to roots? Practically never. I hover around 95% accuracy and I honestly cannot remember the last time I actually had a leap miss and not root. And even if it does...its hardly detrimental to a combat sent who has two other roots and a focus sent who has a second leap and watchmen sent who has a slow on dots and the class itself has leg slash for all 3 specs which is a 12 second slow.

 

The only reason to ever push to 110% is for doing operations.

 

The reason you never see the root miss is that Leap's root effect is a force attack that is not related to the damage.

 

The second you hit Force charge, the target is hit with the leap effect and the interrupt effect, at the end of the animation the target gets hit with the kinetic damaging attack.

[Zoom_VI]

Educate myself?

There is nowhere in that article saying what you claim.

Show me the quote where it says accuracy under 100% reduce defense chance.

I didnt say accuracy under 100% reduces defense.

I said accuracy that if accuracy + defense is greater than 100% than you can not get a "miss" only a "dodge"

Edited October 4, 2013 by Zoom_VI

[Zez-Kai-Ell]

Probably referring to Blade Storm crit damage.

 

yes that i know but if he means in general then that is on focus tree, 15% surge for all atacks

[Zoom_VI]

Educate myself?

There is nowhere in that article saying what you claim.

Show me the quote where it says accuracy under 100% reduce defense chance.

 

From that very article

 

First is a hit roll, accuracy versus defense, and if the attacker misses then no damage occurs. If the attacker rolled poorly enough to miss even discounting the target’s defense then a “Miss” result occurs. If he misses because of the defense then the result varies based on the attack type, the cover state of the target, and the target’s equipped weapons. All the possible results – Dodge, Parry, Deflect, Resist, Cover – are mathematically the same, but they can trigger different effects and are visualized in different ways.

 

So think of it this way

 

If (100-Defense chance=<Accuracy%<100%) then there is accuracy% chance to hit and defense% to dodged

 

If (Accuracy% < 100-defense%) then there is a (100-accuracy) percent chance to not hit the target. In game this means there is a Defense% chance of getting a "dodge" and a 100 - defense - accuracy percent chance of a "miss" result

 

If accuracy% > 100 then there is a (accuracy%)-defense% chance of hitting and a defense - (accuracy - 100) chance of a "dodge"

Edited October 4, 2013 by Zoom_VI

[Raansu]

The reason you never see the root miss is that Leap's root effect is a force attack that is not related to the damage.

 

The second you hit Force charge, the target is hit with the leap effect and the interrupt effect, at the end of the animation the target gets hit with the kinetic damaging attack.

 

The root on leap is NOT a force attack. Leap can be dodged and the root will not be applied. The point of my post was that it is very very VERY rare that leap itself is dodged and the only reason to ever push to 110% accuracy is for HM/Nightmare OP runs.

[Zoom_VI]

The root on leap is NOT a force attack. Leap can be dodged and the root will not be applied. The point of my post was that it is very very VERY rare that leap itself is dodged and the only reason to ever push to 110% accuracy is for HM/Nightmare OP runs.

 

The root is applied on the activation of force charge, it is not tied in any way the damage effect of the charge.

Force charge is actually three effects in one ability

 

Interrupt and root are instant, the damage comes later

[leijae]

So they're nerfing Sentinels? They had better not nerf us through the ground and out the other side life they did some other classes.

 

*caughBALANCESHADOWcaugh*

[snaplemouton]

The root is applied on the activation of force charge, it is not tied in any way the damage effect of the charge.

Force charge is actually three effects in one ability

 

Interrupt and root are instant, the damage comes later

That doesn't make the root any less a main hand attack.

The root can be dodged.

And I also said that 105% is the safe bet and 110% is counter productive because it cost too much of other stats.

 

And the quote you linked on your article doesn't show anything.

 

There is no actual way to know how accuracy is calculated without checking the code itself or a Bioware dev to tell us directly the formula.

There is several ways it can be done.

And the most logical and less retarded way would be:

 

Random roll = new Random(100.00);

if (roll < 100 - accuracy) return "miss";

else { roll = new Random(100.00);

if(roll < accuracy * (defense/100))

return "dodge";

}

return "hit";

 

Or if you prefer, Accuracy% chance to hit. If you hit, then % chance to get a dodge from defense rating.

[JestersRevenge]

If you don't carry at least 105% accuracy and I would even say 110% since sage/sorc got 10% base defense and most of the class got a 5% accuracy debuff, you are the one doing it wrong as a near 100% white damage spec...

You can get at max 6% increased accuracy from talents and you are forced to get 4% in order to progress in combat spec.

That means you get between 99 and 101% accuracy. You are missing between 4 and 11% accuracy to be at maximum capability.

You are the one being wrong and idiotic here.

 

This is PvP, not PvE (which I don't do). In PvE you have the stat pool available where you can and should get your Accuracy to 100% or more (given boss mechanics, debuffs, etc). You don't have the same stat pool in PvP and you sacrifice too much Surge to try and get to that 99/100 number. You will hit like a wet noodle. Go send a PM to the Marauder and Sentinel class Reps and ask their opinion if all the evidence here isn't enough.

 

There is just so much fail in this thread. Kudos to Randle for trying to reason with a brick wall. I think he's a fellow Shadowlander and I think he's in one of, if not the best, PvP guilds there (don't know his character name). He speaks the troof.