Mercenary Top 3 Answers!

[CommanderKeeva]

I've been playing a commando healer since just post-1.2. I've been playing this game since 15 minutes after the servers were turned on. Trust me, I know what merc healers used to be like. The very reason I rolled a commando healer in the first place is because of the nerfs. Healing with them pre-1.2 just felt…cheap.

 

I would say that healers in general were somewhat overpowered before 1.2. Back then, because of the many HoTs, their HPS simply exceeded other people's DPS and could often keep teams alive indefinitely. Remember, sorcerers were nerfed, too, not only Commandos! The whole point of 1.2 was to take away god mode from healers, from ALL healers, not just commandos.

 

The nerf should have been directed at heal numbers and not heal costs. I "have" played a Commando healer before 1.2 and I know that you could always run out of Ammo if you were pressed hard enough. The heals could still be interrupted as well, of course. But virtually every heal's heat cost was nerfed, which was completely unwarranted and uncalled for and it thoroughly broke the class. Why? Because the developers themselves admitted that Commandos had a broken energy management system in the first place, which they never got around to fix!

 

Operatives and Sorcerers had functioning (in case of Operatives too-well functioning) energy management systems, so they took the nerfs in stride. We, on the other hand, were crippled by them. Healing as a Commando is sadistically unforgiving in competitive environments, and when under pressure, it is the Commando that will first run out of resources out of the three healers. Not to mention that they don't even have a proper role, the Sorcerers are usually percieved as the top group healers and operatives as the top single target healers. Commandos fall somewhere between the two apparently, but they do neither as well as the other two healers.

 

EDIT: And that doesn't even explain why Commando healers have B.S. talents like Frontline Medic....

Edited October 10, 2013 by CommanderKeeva

[cs_zoltan]

Not to mention that they don't even have a proper role, the Sorcerers are usually percieved as the top group healers and operatives as the top single target healers. Commandos fall somewhere between the two apparently, but they do neither as well as the other two healers.

 

WAT? :rak_02:

Mercs are the best single target healers not operatives....

[CommanderKeeva]

WAT? :rak_02:

Mercs are the best single target healers not operatives....

 

Yeah except they overheat after the second healing scan......operatives don't. They have good single target healing potential but the heat/ammo cost of their skills severely limits how long they sustain their healing when under pressure.

Edited October 10, 2013 by CommanderKeeva

[KeyboardNinja]

Frankly the fact that you do well in top tier PVE as a commando healer is irrelevant. Great you're an awesome player. But given a choice a raid group isn't going to take them unless they have no choice or unless they know for a fact that the particular commando healer in question is top shelf. Because if they aren't they're a liability. It's why we don't take scoundrel or guardian DPS or any melee really that isn't a sentinel because the average sentinel still does ok DPS, whereas the only people still rocking other melee classes are either the very good or the very stupid. Why roll the dice on an unknown?

 

I agree that commando healers require the most skill of the three in order to produce viable results. I really, really like the skill floor on the class, but frankly it does chafe that I have to put in so much more effort to achieve at most parity output. It would be nice to see some balance reward for the amount of work it takes.

 

With that said, when you have an established raid group, there isn't really any problem taking any of the classes that are legitimately balanced. My guild knows that my healing is viable; they don't hesitate to take me to content where the healing is difficult. The problem you list (i.e. not wanting to take a player because a class has a high skill floor) is legitimate, but doesn't really exist for people in established groups.

 

Yeah except they overheat after the second healing scan......operatives don't. They have good single target healing potential but the heat/ammo cost of their skills severely limits how long they sustain their healing when under pressure.

 

I don't overheat. Ever. Not accidentally anyway. I push myself to overheat when I have my CDs up so that I can catch up if I've been nursing a sub-100% raid for a while.

 

I can heal on both my scoundrel and my commando, and I really do feel a lot stronger on my commando. It's one of those things that's a bit hard to describe if you don't heal with both classes, but I just have far fewer tools for single-target burst on my scoundrel, and those tools don't hit as hard. Besides, the math is on my side here. Pound-for-pound, commandos can put out more healing on a single target than any of the other healers, including scoundrels.

[cs_zoltan]

Frankly the fact that you do well in top tier PVE as a commando healer is irrelevant. Great you're an awesome player. But given a choice a raid group isn't going to take them unless they have no choice or unless they know for a fact that the particular commando healer in question is top shelf. Because if they aren't they're a liability. It's why we don't take scoundrel or guardian DPS or any melee really that isn't a sentinel because the average sentinel still does ok DPS, whereas the only people still rocking other melee classes are either the very good or the very stupid. Why roll the dice on an unknown?

 

I don't understand this, if a class is too easy to play people complain, if a class is too hard to play people complain:rak_02:

I think it's good to have classes that are harder to play than others (though those class should have higher potential), it keeps the baddies away from it^^

[Phrase]

i don't understand this, if a class is too easy to play people complain, if a class is too hard to play people complain:rak_02:

I think it's good to have classes that are harder to play than others (though those class should have higher potential), it keeps the baddies away from it^^

 

qfe/ qft

[cashogy_reborn]

I can heal on both my scoundrel and my commando, and I really do feel a lot stronger on my commando. It's one of those things that's a bit hard to describe if you don't heal with both classes, but I just have far fewer tools for single-target burst on my scoundrel, and those tools don't hit as hard. Besides, the math is on my side here. Pound-for-pound, commandos can put out more healing on a single target than any of the other healers, including scoundrels.

 

Try it in PvP.

[KeyboardNinja]

Try it in PvP.

 

PvP is a completely different story. Scoundrels are stupidly hard to shutdown compared to Commandos, which are stupidly easy to shutdown. That's not really the point though. The point is that Commandos are better single-target healers from a purely healing perspective. This is what I meant when I said that healer balance (w.r.t. raw output) is sussed out in PvE, not in PvP.

 

In PvP, I love healing on my Scoundrel, and I would much rather do that than heal on my Commando. I can and have healed in ranked PvP on my commando (including 8v8s), but it's very hard. I won't pretend that Commandos and Scoundrels are balanced in PvP, because they really aren't, but the reason they're imbalanced has nothing to do with their healing potential.

[ArchangelLBC]

With that said, when you have an established raid group, there isn't really any problem taking any of the classes that are legitimately balanced. My guild knows that my healing is viable; they don't hesitate to take me to content where the healing is difficult. The problem you list (i.e. not wanting to take a player because a class has a high skill floor) is legitimate, but doesn't really exist for people in established groups.

 

Established groups cover a multitude of sins this is true, but that's what I'm talking about when I say "unless they already know the player in question is good". Your group knows you're a good player KBN, and they know you personally and that gives you leeway. What about commando healers new to the endgame scene looking to break into raiding? It's the same with shadow DPS, perhaps to an even larger extent. If your group knows you're really good of course they'll take you. Once a raid goes on farm I almost expect people to start mixing it up just to keep from getting bored.

 

But first you have to GET an established raid group. It's an old catch 22.

 

I don't understand this, if a class is too easy to play people complain, if a class is too hard to play people complain:rak_02:

I think it's good to have classes that are harder to play than others (though those class should have higher potential), it keeps the baddies away from it^^

 

That bolded part there is the problem though. I agree that a higher skill cap which brought with it a higher potential is good balance. It's why I thought pre-2.0 shadows were perfectly balanced for the content. They took more skill to play than the other tanks BUT that hard work paid off, and it was known to pay off.

 

Commando healers are working harder to get to the same baseline.

 

More importantly, on the point of usability, a certain level of performance should be easily attainable by the average player. Not the average of easier classes, but not crippling low. Afterall, you want to give them a decent chance to practice and be better, but if the class is either "great player = viable" or "anything less than great player = liability" people won't give the player a chance unless they already know they're a great player.

Edited October 10, 2013 by ArchangelLBC

[DkSharktooth]

Updated List:

 

Elite Warlord100 Mercenary since launch

How I think Merc Healers should be buffed or fixed:

 

1. Remove heat cost from kolto shell, it's already a global and never needed 16 heat added to it. In addition, merc dps can use kolto shell and move the interrupt immunity from energy shield down to tier 1 ability.

2. During Super Charged Gas, heat cost of abilities is reduced 50%

3. Increase amount healed by each single target heal by 10% and or re-buff the custom enviro-suit talent in the arsenal talent tree to what it originally was 6% health, 6% increased heals.

4. Add 3% more crit back to the Hired Muscle talent, putting it to a total of 6% crit. Merc healers almost never crit on non-AOE (Kolto missile) heals, and that's their biggest problem.

5. Add an AOE Kolto shell can be applied to your 4man group and costs 16 heat.

6. Kolto Shell heals for more per tick

7. Hydraulic overrides additionally provides immunity to interrupts for it's duration and allows healing scan to be cast on the move

8. Kolto override provides additional 10% dmg reduction when it's used.

9. 30% dmg reduction while stunned and or 30% AE dmg reduction

10. Reduce the stacks required for super charged from 30 to 15.

11. During bodyguard mercs energy shield, crit chance is increased 15%. Why? Because mercs can't even heal themselves back to full with +22% increased healing on themselves and +25% dmg reduction cooldown during arenas over 12 second period, yet alone their teamates.

12. Buff Alacrity to reduce cast time by more than 0.01 per enhancement(which it currently does and is a disgrace to the buff that was promised for alacrity), and add 50% bonus alacrity to super charged gas

13. If all else fails, revert the original nerfs that made every merc healer in the game unsub from pvp because they were extinction level overkill nerfs.

 

You don't need to implement all of these, but it's a good way to start looking at things. Note that the state mercs are in currently, they can't even survive WITH their energy shield + kolto overload for more than 6 seconds against a good 4v4 team.

Edited October 11, 2013 by DkSharktooth

[TUXs]

So....2.6 maybe?! Looks like they skipped us in 2.5...

[oaceen]

So....2.6 maybe?! Looks like they skipped us in 2.5...

 

2.5 looks a little bare from the huge balance patch i was expecting :/

[odawgg]

2.5 looks a little bare from the huge balance patch i was expecting :/

 

Where you guys seeing changes posted?!

[TUXs]

Where you guys seeing changes posted?!

 

Here - Game Update 2.5 Class Changes

 

Sadly, Mercs and Commandos were left off the list...

[odawgg]

Such sad face

[ekimmak]

Mercenaries have one big issue, where PVP is concerned, and another big issue, in general.

 

Only one potent heal that doesn't have a cooldown. So, if someone interrupts that when there's nothing to fall back on, the merc is in trouble.

 

When they overheat, they don't have a fallback without a cooldown. Sages always have something to bring their force back up. It can bring them even more grief later, but with careful planning, that risk is negated. Scoundrels can use their channel to bring their energy back up if they go too far. But if a mercenary pushes out of the top tier heat, even for a brief second, they have to reduce their healing output for a significant amount of time before it's safe to start casting again, or they use one of their heat management cooldowns. If you're going to use them, then it's fine to go into overdrive healing, and spam rapid scan until you hit the heat cap. If you have to wait it out, though, you'd better pray that nobody needs those crucial heals in the next 3 GCD or so.

[Leylea]

Hahahahhahahahahaha !!!

 

This whole 'we want ur feedback' ... 'we want u to be part of the develoment' ... 'we want to hear ur opptions' ... its a f**king big joke ...

 

All the good work and the time spent here to elaborate the questions and answers ... and then ...

 

> IN UR FACE <

 

Just a small example:

 

It should not be too difficult to add a 1-100 UI scale for Commando Energy Cells (like the one that Mercenaries can enable for Heat), and we will try to add that in as soon as we can.

 

 

... oh ... i would laugh so much if i wouldnt feel that mucked about this all.

 

Seeing this 'not too difficult' changes soon ... haha soon ... next year in January or February ... haha.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Leylea

[Lalainnia]

I'm curious as to why the mercenary/commando 4 piece set bonus isn't baseline for the healing tree because without it we honestly suck even more, why isn't Emergency scan baseline cd 15secs or even 18 atm it's 21 seconds top tier talent yes its free but it heals for crap. I'm also confused on why all our single target heals are weaker than sorcs and operatives on crits raw number wise. Last thing i'm confused about why did they nerf our crit talent alacrity talent and bonus healing talent removed a healing talent used to give 2% all around healing and change a 1 point skill into a 3 point skill (upgraded arsenal/special munitions).

 

 

WHY DOES THE MERCENARY KB HAVE A DELAY?

WHY DOES KOLTO SHELL HAVE A 2 SEC LOCKOUT TIMER WHEN FULLY TALENTED AND COSTS 16 HEAT?

WHY DOES SUPER CHARGED GAS MAKE UNLOAD AND POWERSHOT FREE?

WHY DID THEY NERF THE BONUS HEALING OF KOLTO MISSLE FROM 5% TO 3%

WHY DID THEY NERF THE HEAT SUPER CHARGED GAS VENTED AND HEALING DONE FROM 10% TO 5%

WHY WE NO HAVE AN ACTUAL SLOW (example: force slow sever tendon)

WHY CANT I SHOOT MYSELF WITH GREEN BULLETS

WHY DO WE HAVE TO TAKE SO MANY USELESS SKILL POINTS

WHY DOESN'T KOLTO MISSLE HEAL FOR MORE OUTSIDE OF CRIT AND KOLTO PODS IN HEALER TREE COMPARED TO DPS TREE.

WHY IS OUR 2 PIECE PVP BONUS MORE USEFULL TO ARSENAL AND AP POWERTECHS.

WHY IS OUR KB A 30 SEC CD! OUTSIDE OF ARSENAL

WHY DOES ARSENAL HAVE A 3% ALACRITY BUFF ON CELL INSTEAD OF HEALING CELL??????

why are we not getting anything in 2.5........:confused:

[PerinnAybara]

Mercenaries/Commandos deserve an apology from the developers.

 

1. Commando/Mercenary Treatment

When a group of developers ignore the complaints of a class in an mmo until the players of said class reroll, quit or just become too tired to complain. Thus solving the root cause of said complaints. This is followed up by the developers patting each other's backs and congratulating each other on a job well done.

1. Bioware is really putting powertechs through the commando/mercenary treatment. Each patch powertech's think their class can not get worse, when it does.

 

2. If the RNG gods align, we can be one shot by a Boss mechanic, and there is nothing we can do. Us assassin tanks are getting the Commando/Mercenary treatment.

 

3. Because of Bioware's consistent use of the commando/mercenary treatment one will find a lack of commandos and mercenaries queing for the 4 v 4 ranked arenas.

 

<Source http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Commando%2FMercenary%20Treatment>

[JimmyTheCannon]

WHY DOES SUPER CHARGED GAS MAKE UNLOAD AND POWERSHOT FREE?

 

You have some valid points, but this one there's a reason for. It helps tremendously for people *leveling* in the healing tree, or healers soloing dailies. Free DPS is free DPS.

[Transcendent]

Our concern with Thermal Sensor Override/Reserve Powercell is that the ability only exists to mitigate the frustration caused by an unforgiving resource system, and we would prefer to fix the resource system rather than give players additional buttons or shorter cooldowns to fight against their obstinate resources.

 

So many good answers in here, and yet some answers seem to lack an understanding of the class and the players that play the class.

 

TSO is a key ability for Mercs, it allows us to completely ignore our resource system if we choose to. For instance, in OPS when we need to burn a target, this is something that allows us to do this and some of us save abilities like this to enable us to do so. It's more about enabling us to up our burst single target DPS at a chosen time. The current CD on this ability is simply too high, and if you played the class you would understand how it interacts with so many other abilities. It's not simply a "we need to nerf other classes to bring you all in line" scenario, or a case of the resource system is the sole issue here. This is one of those Merc quality of life points about raid utility when it comes to this ability.

 

Unrelated to utility cooldowns, another thing that we have been internally considering for a while now is adjusting our pushback & interrupt systems because we believe the classes that have abilities with activation and channel times are simply being too greatly affected by those systems. These adjustments would primarily benefit all Mercenaries/Commandos and Sorcerers/Sages (Snipers/Gunslingers do not gain much because they are already immune to pushback & interrupts while in cover). Power Shot/Charged Bolts, Unload/Full Auto, and Tracer Missile/Grav Round are some key abilities that would benefit from these adjustments. Please let us know your opinion of the pushback & interrupt systems as they currently stand, and we will take the community’s feedback into consideration.

 

My Merc was originally Pyro spec, it was brilliant in terms of the ability to DPS while staying mobile and as such most of the abilities didn't really suffer from pushback or interrupt problems in a PVE scenario (PVP is different). I've since switched to Arsenal purely from a DPS perspective, and while the extra DPS is nice, the abilities are so static (all the abilities you listed above... although I never use power shot as it's useless). Pushback and interrupts galore in both PVE and PVP.

 

It's strange, you gave us this amazing ability called Hydraulic Overrides, and yet you didn't include interrupt or pushback immunity with this ability. How strange. We're still a target due to being static, but it would mitigate some of those specific issues with cast times. As for Sorc / Sage immunity, they can heal to full anyway, so not an issue for them is it?

 

As a damage dealer, it is not fun being forced to fight two battles at the same time – one against your enemy target and another against your resource bar. As you pointed out, we have made changes to certain abilities (like Incendiary Missile/Incendiary Round) and even created entire abilities (Vent Heat/Recharge Cells and Thermal Sensor Override/Reserve Powercell) to mitigate the frustration caused by an unforgiving resource system. But maybe the time has finally come to fix the real problem – the resource system itself?

 

Wow, you dropped the heat by what, 1 on IM? That'll make a huge difference to Pyro i'm sure

 

I like my resource system as a Merc, it's part of the fun of playing the class. You actually have to learn a rotation, learn how the abilities interact with each other, and know the class limits to play the class well.

 

Thematically, we would still use Heat/Energy Cells, so the change would only be in functionality. There is nothing that thematically requires Heat/Energy Cells to work how they currently do. For example, we could let you safely use more than 40% of your resource bar more than once every 2 minutes; however, we cannot allow Mercenaries/Commandos to heal indefinitely – which is actually the reason why the system works like it currently does. This is why a resource system that works in a similar manner to the Sorcerer’s/Sage’s Force resource could work for Mercenaries/Commandos, while something like the Juggernaut’s/Guardian’s Rage/Focus resource would not be feasible. We should state that overhauling a resource system is a substantial amount of work on our end, and as such, it is not something that would happen anytime soon. We will be looking for your feedback here, because we would not want to make a drastic change to your resource system without support from you – the players.

 

Simply fine tune the heat management system? You certainly could go all out and alter it to something alien and strange to every player who plays Merc or Commando (for the love of god give Commando the UI update already!).

 

I'll point out we're not Sorc / Sage or Jugg / Guardian. See my point above about having to learn the class properly instead of swishing sticks around merrily with tons of procs being available. No we're Mercs / Commandos, it makes sense that our resource system is thematically based on heat and Commandos is based on replenishment, and that the more we use our abilities the more heat we generate / more we need to reload. You don't need to get fancy with it.

 

While certainly you could rework the whole system, that seems excessive? By all means feel free to fine tune what we have, for example adjusting our heat / ammo systems from the 1-39 / 40 - 79 / 80 - 100 system to something a little more forgiving such as 1 - 45 / 46 - 75 / 76 - 100. And adjusting the heat reduction / ammo replenishment rates slightly (+1 each tier perhaps?)

 

Something like that would require testing, but certainly it would be beneficial to adjust it slightly. A complete overahaul though? Seriously, just no on that front from me.

 

The Merc / Commando class has evolved over time, and while we've been given new abilities, some of those need adjusting to work better with the classes they've been given to. As i've stated above, some answers seem to lack an understanding of the class and the players that play the class.

[NeNiMel]

Well it doesnt seems like there are changes coming for us in this round.

 

But i really hope they dont change the heat system, because the difficulty of this class is what makes it fun to play. Instead of a redesign of the system I would rather have more tools to bring me back in a high regen tier (examble by reducing the CD of vent heat) that way it would allow us to burn hot in some phases and still be able to bring ourself back in the fight again. The reason i like this approach better than a more forgiving regen system is because it still takes skill to control when to burn hot or when not to.

Like Keyboard ninja I never overheat unless i want to, so I dont think a redesign of the heat system is needed for healers. But if we were allowed to burn hot more often on purpose, then we would be able to bring a little higher numbers in the fight.

[odawgg]

So many good answers in here, and yet some answers seem to lack an understanding of the class and the players that play the class.

 

Not to discredit anything else you mentioned, but this was the most important thing you wrote... And not to knock the Devs, but this is simply a 100% accurate statement.

 

Example that's already been brought up in this thread multiple times , to even suggest a complete overhaul of the resource system when A) all we asking for are a few minor adjustments and B) the exact same resource system in reverse is already working perfectly fine with IAs that already have these minor adjustments in place.

 

I'm not entirely sure exactly what the Devs & Moderators were trying to accomplish with this Class Rep system, but getting feedback / advice from the players that dedicate half (if not more) of their free time to this class should be a big reason for it and taking them seriously should be equally as important.

 

Eric, were our Q&As simply too late for you to implement them into 2.5? Or did the development team simply ignore us? Surely the Moderators had to have come across this thread at some point in the last 4-1/2 months: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=647027? Was that simply ignored and/or considered QQ?

 

Eric, I hope you can understand our frustration a change as simple as this would make over 50% (probably even higher % play arsenal) of the merc community happy campers and it's never been commented on till the Top 3 thread and the response we get is asking us if we should rehaul the resource system. All arsenals want is their free Rail Shot! C'mon Man!

 

There are several other changes needed but I bring this up cuz it has some long term documentation on the forums and there's zero excuse for not making into 2.5

Edited October 20, 2013 by odawgg

[MVaglin]

My personal guess is that their internal deadlines for game updates is something like 2 months prior to it going live (to allow for testing and such). Remember how our answers got pushed back due to the team working on 2.5? They were probably pushing the content lock deadline at that time, so simply didn't have time to add in changes based on our feedback.

 

Of course, that's just conjecture on my part. They have promised to do incremental class balancing from now on, so maybe changes for our class will make it in in patch 2.5.1 or 2.5.2.

 

But yeah, the free rail shot should really have been in 2.5.

[GNWP]

Hope devs still monitoring this thread, since they didn't announced any class changes for Mandos/Mercs and looking for ways to improve current class situation.

Here's my suggestion for Commando/Merc utility: give them an ability to place on their allies analogue of Hydraulic Override/Hold the Line! Operatives/Scoundrels has Infiltrate/Smuggle, Sorcs/Sages has Extrication/Rescue. Commando/Merc has NOTHING as soon as it comes to utility skills! So do it! Give it to them!

Edited October 24, 2013 by GNWP