Warzones/Arena please let the player decide!

[Brewski]

Isn't this the same issue we currently have with PvE content? Long queue times? If I queue as a DPS, I can wait hours (or until I drop from the queue...why is PvP so different to you?

 

I'm a bit confused why you think I think they are different. As I stated in the part you did not quote, I would love to see the exact same system used for both as soon as there is enough demand to support it. All I'm saying is that apparently Bioware doesn't see enough people queuing to support split queues.

 

I'm sure they would love to give the exact same options on the PvP side we see on the PvE side, but they need to keep the big picture in mind.

 

So by all means, keep requesting the ability to split and select what you queue for. In fact, I'd totally support that request. I just don't support it to the point of screwing over my fellow PvPers by dropping out of the queue because I don't want to play what pops.

[Gigabix]

What's the point of forcing players who want to play the 'old' warzones to play the new arenas?

 

I don't like the arenas, I simply want to play the warzones.

 

There are players who like the arenas more, let them play arenas and keep them off the warzones if they don't want to play them.

 

Give us the choice!

 

Yes give us a choice.

 

Whats the point in making an Arena that hardly ever pops up, and when it does finally pop up half the team leave coz they don't like it? Also the fact that quitters don't get penalized doesn't help things, loads do it.

 

I've just logged off due to the only 2 Arena games I managed to get into in the last 45 mins were cut short by players quitting right away. Leaving a 2v4 game then a 3v4 game.

 

Its a garbage and highly frustrating system in place atm.

 

Just a pointless effort Bioware.

[Darknessinme]

Sadly, no, there isn't. I'd like to live in a world where there is enough demand that we can split the queues up. I don't have the long term solution. Maybe it's cross-server PvP queues, or maybe it's something else, but as I said, queuing and dropping out is not only bad for PvP as a whole, it's rude to the others who do want to play.

 

If I were to drop out of every Huttball match that popped for me just because I don't like Huttball, people would (rightly) be ticked off at me. What's happening right now with arenas is no better. If you really can't stand them, and it's bad enough you'd rather not play, don't queue at all. Otherwise, if you queue and it pops, play it out.

 

With respect, NO! I mainly PVP and I am always happy to see new PVP content added. However, I do not enjoy arena style PVP. I have done it in other MMO’s and I am frankly burned out by it. I did not choose to have arena added to my que, so why should I be punished playing a map I do not wish to participate in?

 

Again, I have apologized in this thread and in advance for those this affect. But frankly, they can thank EA/Bioware for this situation. I will not be forced to participate in something I do not wish to be part of, plain and simple. But I do not expect you to participate in things you do not wish to do. I respect others enough to let them choose what they want to do with their game time, because frankly, it is their money and they are allowed to do what they want with it.

 

I am being respectful as I can by leaving as immediate as I can so that the group that want to do arena can get a player that wants to participate in arena. I do not complain when people leave the WZ's I am in because they wanted arena. Kudos to them! They should play what makes them happy!

 

This is a situation that frankly no one is wrong or right. I am about choice, plain and simple! If I cannot choice to do 8v8 or 4v4 in separate ques, then I use the system I have in front of me to get results. I.e. dropping the arena as early as possible and re-queing for the PVP experience I desire. It’s all about choice and I am exercising my right as a paying customer! Again, this is all IMO.

[Gigabix]

Hey discbox!

 

You raise a good question and it is one I can answer. There are two reasons it appears as it does currently in the queue. First, what you have to keep in mind is that Arenas are a new type of Warzone. Similar to how Huttball is a type of Warzone and Voidstar is a type. Technically each different Warzone currently in the game is its own type, with a single map of that type. Warzone Arenas are the "type" 4v4 deathmatch with 3 different maps. That is why they are in the Warzone queue.

 

Secondly...

 

 

Zoom_VI is on the right path here. As we continue to separate queues, we will continue to increase queue times. Our goal is to make sure you can get into the PvP action ASAP!

 

Hope that answers your question.

 

-eric

 

Your goal is to make sure we can get into the PvP action ASAP?

 

Well its not working because lots of people are simply quitting the new Arena WZ, so I'm seeing NO action what so ever and wasting my time on swtor atm.

 

What about giving people extra WZ points if they choose the current 'full' random WZ list.

 

This is just frustrating for everyone.

 

I'd rather que longer and get a quailty WZ game with people that have chosen to be there.

[DarthSabreth]

I don't believe for one second that you speak for "the majority". Look at Wow: arenas have been very popular there amongst most of the endgame pvpers for a very long time. They are a highlight of that game even if one dev expressed regrets about them.

 

People don't start and post in threads asking for the same things over and over with no response ad infinitum. Even hood toggles died after a dev said no time soon and the only reason that thread stayed near the top was because that board was near dead and a couple people decided to keep bumping it.

 

in game I got lots of "no arenas?" comments from new players and they were answered with "someday, who knows when" until recently.

 

yeah but the difference with WOW and their arenas are the following.

 

1. its cross server which is a short que time.

2. they don't shove them down the throats of gamers whom don't want to take part in them.

3. they are exclusively premade groups, they are smart enough to know most pug groups if there was a solo que option would be steam rolled over repeatedly.

4. Blizz knows only a small portion of the community takes part in them.

 

Before I quit 2 weeks ago I didn't have an issue with wanting to do arenas I belonged to a pvp guild and almost exclusively pvped, but even I would not be silly enough to stay in a pug arena group, I would bail like anyone else would. I am glad my sub runs out in a week and haven't logged on during this patch. 2.4 would have had me quiting ne who.

 

BW has been making really poor pvp decisions since 1.4, its kind of strange that they revisit that mistake at 2.4 is it a coincidence?

[GalacticKegger]

yeah but the difference with WOW and their arenas are the following.

 

1. its cross server which is a short que time.

2. they don't shove them down the throats of gamers whom don't want to take part in them.

3. they are exclusively premade groups, they are smart enough to know most pug groups if there was a solo que option would be steam rolled over repeatedly.

4. Blizz knows only a small portion of the community takes part in them.

 

Before I quit 2 weeks ago I didn't have an issue with wanting to do arenas I belonged to a pvp guild and almost exclusively pvped, but even I would not be silly enough to stay in a pug arena group, I would bail like anyone else would. I am glad my sub runs out in a week and haven't logged on during this patch. 2.4 would have had me quiting ne who.

 

BW has been making really poor pvp decisions since 1.4, its kind of strange that they revisit that mistake at 2.4 is it a coincidence?

What have they revisited? And I agree with a cross-server PvP queue system. Cross-server PvE (raids especially) can rapidly deteriorate into flame and attitude fests, which are no fun more often than not. But flaming and attitude are prime requisites for PvP, so I think it would work quite well.

[Andryah]

I agree with a cross-server PvP queue system. Cross-server PvE (raids especially) can rapidly deteriorate into flame and attitude fests, which are no fun more often than not. But flaming and attitude are prime requisites for PvP, so I think it would work quite well.

 

I support a cross server system or PvP too. Getting all medieval and dramatic is kind of integral to random PvP in MMOs.. so no harm IMO.

 

But not for PvE... for the reasons GK presented above.

[Kontraz]

I support a cross server system or PvP too. Getting all medieval and dramatic is kind of integral to random PvP in MMOs.. so no harm IMO.

 

But not for PvE... for the reasons GK presented above.

 

I'm very torn on cross-server pvp. Part of me likes to be able to identify the guilds and individual players that I am against, yet at the same time, my server is almost dead in terms of PvP, so being able to queue in less than half an hour would be a great change.

[Avicii]

Hey discbox!

 

You raise a good question and it is one I can answer. There are two reasons it appears as it does currently in the queue. First, what you have to keep in mind is that Arenas are a new type of Warzone. Similar to how Huttball is a type of Warzone and Voidstar is a type. Technically each different Warzone currently in the game is its own type, with a single map of that type. Warzone Arenas are the "type" 4v4 deathmatch with 3 different maps. That is why they are in the Warzone queue.

 

Secondly...

 

 

Zoom_VI is on the right path here. As we continue to separate queues, we will continue to increase queue times. Our goal is to make sure you can get into the PvP action ASAP!

 

Hope that answers your question.

 

-eric

 

No offense meant Eric, when I met you in Seattle at the Cantina you were great and I love effort on the forums.

 

However this is short sighted to say the least. As people in the thread have noted queues and game play will suffer no matter what. Putting people in Arenas that dont want to do them AND against 4 man premades comprised of the correct group comp in vent is a recipe for disaster and will only lead to more QQ and longer queue times as people leave the arena ever single time they get it. In addition the 4 man regstars that cant handle ranked will leave each WZ they enter leaving their team short at the start to requeue to get an arena vs 4 unorganized PuGs (great idea making that possible) with no roles.

 

You have split the queues already with Solo Ranked/Group Ranked/WZs just take Arenas out of the WZ queue at 55. Leave it in for the leveling brackets.

 

What other option is there? You had to know some people strongly dislike nonobjective PvP or straight death match PvP and adding arenas will only lead to lopsided losses for those that stay in WZs & Arenas and more QQ about premades. Some times I wonder if you do this on purpose giving people some glaring issue to focus on while letting other issues slide unnoticed.

 

You didnt need Force Visions to for see this:

Your goal is to make sure we can get into the PvP action ASAP?

 

Well its not working because lots of people are simply quitting the new Arena WZ, so I'm seeing NO action what so ever and wasting my time on swtor atm.

 

What about giving people extra WZ points if they choose the current 'full' random WZ list.

 

This is just frustrating for everyone.

 

I'd rather que longer and get a quailty WZ game with people that have chosen to be there.

[DarthSabreth]

What have they revisited? And I agree with a cross-server PvP queue system. Cross-server PvE (raids especially) can rapidly deteriorate into flame and attitude fests, which are no fun more often than not. But flaming and attitude are prime requisites for PvP, so I think it would work quite well.

 

what have they revisited you ask? 1.4 had some obnoxious pvp decisions such as the infamous bubble stun, and the resolve change that made stuns almost unbearable.

 

with 2.4 they basically killed pvp for those whom don't want to do arenas, if death match duels were so popular then:

 

1. the outlaws den would be teaming with gamers, 9 out of 10 times you will never see anyone there.

2. the gree event would be the talk of the century with all of the death match duels going on there.

 

it was a very small crowd that clamored for them and when they implemented them they decided to shove them down the throats of gamers whom don't want to do them or (make players get into a pug match in them or worse pug vrs premade) people are already enflamed over pug vrs premade 8v8 wzs this is 10 times worse because they will get destroyed 2 times over. this is just silly and the worst idea ever to put arenas in the wz que.

[Aztian]

GOD the new WZ at 55 sucks.. i am not going to pvp anymore

 

i miss the old ones ... al ready ....... Sign! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

 

 

only pvping on my lowb

[ROTC_COMRADE]

Hey discbox!

Technically each different Warzone currently in the game is its own type, with a single map of that type. Warzone Arenas are the "type" 4v4 deathmatch with 3 different maps. That is why they are in the Warzone queue.

 

Appreciate the explanation. Perhaps I'm in the minority but I view 4v4 as a very different thing than 8v8. I personally don' t have any interest in playing 4v4 Team Deathmatch. Too few players, too much expected of each person for a random pug group. Pug vs. almost any premade is going to a lopsided situation that I wouldn't view as fun on either side. One bad/lesser-skilled player (which might very well be me lol) can easily lose the match for the other 3.

 

Don't get me wrong - am very happy variety is being added even if it isn't what I personally like. (I'd love to see a new 8v8 WZ Map every 60-90 days). As bad as I'll feel about leaving a 4v4, (which will hurt the team far more than leaving an 8v8), I'm not going to play Arenas for the most part, which means I'll be dumping out of the queue if put into one. And I hate being put in that position by your inflexible queue.

 

I would *much* rather wait longer in the queue to get an 8v8. If I find this too cumbersome, I'm done with PvP and will find another game to scratch that itch in while I continue to PvE here.

[Gomla]

So we have people that are getting annoyed because folk keep leaving arena's.

 

Hands up if you saw that coming.....

[FriendReferral]

So we have people that are getting annoyed because folk keep leaving arena's.

 

Hands up if you saw that coming.....

/Raises_Hand

 

[ROTC_COMRADE]

You guys really are bitter about PvP in SWTOR IMO. Which frankly impairs your objectivity.

 

Way to dismiss people's opinions. I have *really enjoyed* PvP in this game. I have Valor 100, 90 and 70 toons. From the time I heard about Arenas, I've told people that I think it is cool that variety is coming, but Arenas don't interest me so I'd just keep playing 8v8.

 

Then I find out, today, that the queue is jumbled together and that the only way I can get to 8v8 matches is by quitting Arenas that pop. Not cool. Hurts my enjoyment of the game and screws the other 3 people that I just bailed on.

 

As someone else mentioned - if the number of PvPers doesn't support separate queues for these VERY different types of matches, perhaps Arenas should have waited for another day. I'd take a wild guess that current PvPers would have enjoyed another new 8v8 map or two...

[Lightrider]

So we have people that are getting annoyed because folk keep leaving arena's.

 

Hands up if you saw that coming.....

 

The funny thing is that it seems like most of the complaining is coming from the people doing the quitting.

 

Situational 4v3s happen all the time in the 8v8 warzones... A few thoughts:

 

1. Some people say they'd be willing to wait longer for the queue times - how much longer? There is a point where the wait time becomes unacceptable.

 

2. What about low pop servers, whose wait times could suffer even more?

 

3. When the SSSP PvP queue is added, will that add an even larger split of the queues that will cause even longer wait times?

 

Personally, I'd be more willing to have Arena's removed from the lvl55 Reg queue, than to split them.

[ROTC_COMRADE]

Fact is.. they likely have all kinds of clever little adjustments planned to " railroad track" the PvP in different directions for different tastes in the coming months.

 

Sorry but I don't feel the need to pay to wait for months to get something that I had 48 hours ago. Dumb.

[Gomla]

The funny thing is that it seems like most of the complaining is coming from the people doing the quitting.

 

Situational 4v3s happen all the time in the 8v8 warzones... A few thoughts:

 

1. Some people say they'd be willing to wait longer for the queue times - how much longer? There is a point where the wait time becomes unacceptable.

 

2. What about low pop servers, whose wait times could suffer even more?

 

3. When the SSSP PvP queue is added, will that add an even larger split of the queues that will cause even longer wait times?

 

Personally, I'd be more willing to have Arena's removed from the lvl55 Reg queue, than to split them.

 

All problems regarding PvP, including split queues, could be solved quite easily.

 

Cross server queues.

 

Problem solved.

 

Before someone else comes in with "it's not that easy to implement" I would like to point out that they have had 2 years and many other MMO's have managed it so we know it is possible.

 

By a team that knows what it's doing.

 

So instead of adding arena to reg warzone queues and annoying people, regardless of the amount that is, they could have done it in a far better way with prior planning.

 

The 6 P's folks ... prior planning prevents piss poor performance.

[MidichIorian]

The funny thing is that it seems like most of the complaining is coming from the people doing the quitting.

 

Situational 4v3s happen all the time in the 8v8 warzones... A few thoughts:

 

1. Some people say they'd be willing to wait longer for the queue times - how much longer? There is a point where the wait time becomes unacceptable.

 

2. What about low pop servers, whose wait times could suffer even more?

 

3. When the SSSP PvP queue is added, will that add an even larger split of the queues that will cause even longer wait times?

 

Personally, I'd be more willing to have Arena's removed from the lvl55 Reg queue, than to split them.

The problem here is population and lack of x-server, which we all know.

 

But to answer your questions:

1. As long as I takes. I like to use Halo as an example whenever there's talk about matchmaking because I think Bungie got it right by putting aside "ASAP" and giving the system time to search for fitting matches instead of randomely tossing people into games. After a certain amount of time the system would expand the search, making more players eligible for the match, but also decreasing the rewards for the, by the system deemed, better team. Xbox Halo obviously didnt have servers, it's a P2P game on the consoles, so population was good but even then there would be times when I had to sit in fairly long queues in the Arena low % or MLG 50. If you have ANY interest in playing fair games you'll wait.

 

2. Would be solved by x-server. On the other hand, if someone who's interested in PvP is stuck on a " PvP dead" server there's always the option to transfer.

 

3. It might not cater to the same people. It probably will though since most players are casuals who try all aspects of the game (I do too btw) On the other hand, it's no different than if they were to introduce some new cool PvE element that people wanted to do. It's the kind of population loss they have to take into consideration when they introduce content that competes with other content in the same game. I'm on servers with good queue times but I havent noticed a difference the times they've introduced new content (oricon/makeb...)

[Lightrider]

All problems regarding PvP, including split queues, could be solved quite easily.

 

Cross server queues.

 

Problem solved.

 

Before someone else comes in with "it's not that easy to implement" I would like to point out that they have had 2 years and many other MMO's have managed it so we know it is possible.

 

By a team that knows what it's doing.

 

So instead of adding arena to reg warzone queues and annoying people, regardless of the amount that is, they could have done it in a far better way with prior planning.

 

The 6 P's folks ... prior planning prevents piss poor performance.

 

I fear that if they spent that "2 years they had" implementing cross-server queues at the expense of content, there wouldn't be anyone left playing the game.

 

(btw, check out this article for the devs comments on x-server queuing from the community cantina, if you're interested)

[Monoth]

Seems like the best solution is to have 3 que options.

 

1) 8v8 normal warzones (non-ranked)

2) 4v4 group arena (ranked)

3) 4v4 solo arena (ranked)

 

and leave it at that.... It will allow people to do what they want.

 

I don't know who the hell would want to play 4v4 arena non ranked....

[DarthSabreth]

I fear that if they spent that "2 years they had" implementing cross-server queues at the expense of content, there wouldn't be anyone left playing the game.

 

(btw, check out this article for the devs comments on x-server queuing from the community cantina, if you're interested)

 

yeah and this is what they had to say on that:

 

(Nothing is out of the realm of possibility. However, cross server queuing is really, really, really, really friggin’ hard. And we are looking at doing other solutions in order to actually solve the same problem. So for example, our servers hold three to four times the number of people than that other game, who’s name will not be mentioned. And we actually chose to do that because it solved many other issues, including the need for cross server queuing.)

 

tell me this, if its so hard then why do most mmos have them and if its so hard then why not hire on someone whom can do it? even an old dinosaur like WOW has them and that mmo is ancient compared to SWTOR then what is so hard about it? non of the devs ever comment on what is holding them back.

[RaiderMid]

Seems like the best solution is to have 3 que options.

 

1) 8v8 normal warzones (non-ranked)

2) 4v4 group arena (ranked)

3) 4v4 solo arena (ranked)

 

and leave it at that.... It will allow people to do what they want.

 

I don't know who the hell would want to play 4v4 arena non ranked....

 

People who want to get their daily and weekly done as quick as possible.

[Gomla]

I fear that if they spent that "2 years they had" implementing cross-server queues at the expense of content, there wouldn't be anyone left playing the game.

 

(btw, check out this article for the devs comments on x-server queuing from the community cantina, if you're interested)

 

Different teams.

 

I would hope the server teams, design teams, coding teams, art teams etc .. were all separate.

 

If it's all one team we're in trouble.

 

As for it "being really hard" as they themselves said .... that's their lack of experience. Other companies manage it perfectly well, even smaller companies.

 

There is no excuse other than they have no idea what they are doing in that regard.

[irishfino]

I've wanted the ability to select which warzone I get plopped into for a year now. I stopped PvPing when the queue gave me nothing, but Hutt Ball, which I really dislike.

 

The fact they still refuse to implement this is not surprising, but it's very disappointing.