Why are there no DPS meters?

[_Admiral]

You seem to believe the only way to improve is with an built-in dps meter. Not sure how you draw that conclusion.

.

 

How is a person who has never played an MMO before going to know if their rotation is sub-standard and their DPS isn't up to scratch if they don't get told by the game?

[chuixupu]

How is a person who has never played an MMO before going to know if their rotation is sub-standard and their DPS isn't up to scratch if they don't get told by the game?

 

The same way everyone else does, by asking for guidance, looking up guides, downloading spreadsheets and damage meters.

 

Even WoW doesn't have a built-in one. They are told by other players. And many continue to be ignorant and just terribly players overall despite having that available.

[Pigdaddy]

The only people that DON'T want this type of thing are the very people that are scared of it.

 

Years of WoW and I didn't see any "elitism" (except for GearScore and idiots demanding content achievement linking in PUGS) unless you really weren't pulling your weight. With enrage timers tight (extremely in some encounters) the DPS race must be bang on to clear the content. All you negative head-in-the-sand people either dont' care nor realize the frustration (and cost for repeated repairs) that possible wipe after wipe can cause.

 

Not having them say during the first year of this game I can understand and accept, now.. no. Game is old enough now to justify such a thing as players should be doing the right thing and coming into the game front loaded with information. Personally I knew pretty much everything there was to know about my Sentinel before I got my first wave of early access invite.

 

Someone said before that carrying bad gear is doable, this applies very much to me with my new tanking as at the moment I'm failtank due to gear and mechanics, but I'm learning and I would welcome a threat meter to ensure my rotation is optimal. Seen many people claim "oh we parse 1345420000000000000 dps" on dummies".. yet their groups wipe?.. If you parse such numbers then prove it. Having to mess around with external parses is just a pain, a plain good ol meter (not just dps but hps and tps) would end all arguments or claims of being leet godly whatever when the meter says otherwise.

[Arenatah]

Spoiler alert: Not even WoW had dps meters built in. They were all addons utilizing WoW's api. Same with Rift (though that didn't have an api for a while, so parsers were the norm for a long time).

 

Parsers for SWTOR are available, just don't expect people to jump in your TORParse/MOX Parser group in a random FP. It's not gonna happen.

 

Not gonna lie, though, I'd love an api for SWTOR, along with an armory. We'd be able to track guild rankings and kills way more effectively if we had those tools.

[Dontar]

 

edit: it doesnt even have to say your DPS number, just a green light that says you're adequate skill level for the raid / FP

 

Can we have this for healers as well, I can survive with bad DPS, but not with bad healing.

[jorill]

As a healer i dont really see a point in a healing meter unless its in an ops so you can see if one healer is carrying the other one.

[Tremed]

http://www.torparse.com/

This is a meter my guild uses *cough and created so feel free to use it as well.

[jorill]

http://www.torparse.com/

This is a meter my guild uses *cough and created so feel free to use it as well.

 

That is a pretty good meter to use for ops

[charaid]

I have no problem with others not being able to see my dps, except, as someone mentioned, if you don't know how you're doing in comparison to others, does it help you improve? My main problem is that, unlike WOW, I have no idea what my DPS is, and whether or not I can tweak something to make it better, or not. How can we improve our dps if we have no idea how we're doing? HOWEVER, there must be some way of seeing DPS, because I've seem players told that their DPS sucks...how do they know? It seems to me that as you level, you should try and improve, but you need tools to enable you to do that; a dps meter would be a good tool.

Yes, I do use Ask Mr Robot, noxxic and MaxDPS sites to help me gear appropriately.

[chuixupu]

I have no problem with others not being able to see my dps, except, as someone mentioned, if you don't know how you're doing in comparison to others, does it help you improve? My main problem is that, unlike WOW, I have no idea what my DPS is, and whether or not I can tweak something to make it better, or not. How can we improve our dps if we have no idea how we're doing? HOWEVER, there must be some way of seeing DPS, because I've seem players told that their DPS sucks...how do they know? It seems to me that as you level, you should try and improve, but you need tools to enable you to do that; a dps meter would be a good tool.

Yes, I do use Ask Mr Robot, noxxic and MaxDPS sites to help me gear appropriately.

 

Did you read the thread? Lots of people posting links to 3rd party dps meters that you can run in game.

 

There is Parsec, Torparse, Moxx, and a couple of others. It will not show other people's dps by default, but you can link up with others with their permission and compare each other's damage and healing. I've been using Parsec mostly these days. You can also upload your combat logs to Torparse's website for more detailed information.

 

http://parsec.codeplex.com/

http://www.torparse.com/

http://memoriesofxendor.com/parser/desktop/

Edited October 18, 2013 by chuixupu

[Rafaman]

Did you read the thread? Lots of people posting links to 3rd party dps meters that you can run in game.

 

There is Parsec, Torparse, Moxx, and a couple of others. It will not show other people's dps by default, but you can link up with others with their permission and compare each other's damage and healing. I've been using Parsec mostly these days. You can also upload your combat logs to Torparse's website for more detailed information.

 

http://parsec.codeplex.com/

http://www.torparse.com/

http://memoriesofxendor.com/parser/desktop/

 

Yup. I like Tortools as well: http://www.tortools.com/

 

Plenty of parsers out there. I have a realtime parser as well...

[mmjarec]

Well there is no reason to not at least have a private meter with options to make it public. It eould be worth the few jerks that use it as an epeen meter to make all the suckies better i would wan someone to tell me if i sucked

[HoloTweed]

how much compassion and diligence am i required to show other people if i PAY to play this game?

 

Im sorry, there's a certain level of "im wasting my time here" that occurs most times when i have to click the release button.

 

If you don't have compassion and diligence to play a Massvely MULTIPLAYER game, then you know where the "Leave Group" button is.

[EmperorLupey]

I support combat meters. I am an elitest when it comes to myself. I never expect others to perform up to top tier standard, but I like to challenge myself this way.

I do expect a certain amount of common courtesy though. It is not okay to be the reason that your group/guild can not clear content. If you are unable to perform up to minimal standards for an encounter be a big enough person to bow out. You should not expect to have the best gear available if you do not pay for it somehow. Either dedicate time to increase your value, or buy your way to success. Either way you need to pay. If you are the anchor that is keeping the ship from sailing you should be cut off. People should not be expected to carry your dead weight through a challenge. Either be up to the challenge or do not accept it.

I have lead many raids in games including full scale pvp wars, and it is the same for all of them. Either people are there to complete challenges or they arent. If they arent they are asked respectfully to leave.

 

In addition the people that showed the greatest amount of dedication through attendance, improvement, leadership, and performance were always rewarded with extra goodies.

Edited October 18, 2013 by EmperorLupey

[HoloTweed]

Well there is no reason to not at least have a private meter with options to make it public. It eould be worth the few jerks that use it as an epeen meter to make all the suckies better i would wan someone to tell me if i sucked

 

No, not worth it. No public meters. I'm fine with private where you can only see your own stats, but gear check (available) and eyeballing performance is more than enough.

 

Guide, advise, caution, warn, kick... you can fix ignorance (and I mean that in the generic, non-insulting way) about mechanics and playstyle, but you can't fix arrogance ("I'll do what I want!") or stupidity ("I thought it wouldn't aggro if I did that a third time") and for those times, there is the Kick feature. But not a means of first resort.

[HoloTweed]

I support combat meters. I am an elitest when it comes to myself. I never expect others to perform up to top tier standard, but I like to challenge myself this way.

I do expect a certain amount of common courtesy though. It is not okay to be the reason that your group/guild can not clear content. If you are unable to perform up to minimal standards for an encounter be a big enough person to bow out. You should not expect to have the best gear available if you do not pay for it somehow. Either dedicate time to increase your value, or buy your way to success. Either way you need to pay. If you are the anchor that is keeping the ship from sailing you should be cut off. People should not be expected to carry your dead weight through a challenge. Either be up to the challenge or do not accept it.

I have lead many raids in games including full scale pvp wars, and it is the same for all of them. Either people are there to complete challenges or they arent. If they arent they are asked respectfully to leave.

 

I have a LOT of respect for people who bow out of FP's after it becomes obvious they aren't geared/qualified. A simple "sorry guys" keeps that guy off the Ignore List and makes everyone more likely to offer advice and suggestions.

 

On the other hand, arrogant players who won't leave on their own or selfish players who bail without concern get the Iggie List with prejudice.

[EmperorLupey]

I have a LOT of respect for people who bow out of FP's after it becomes obvious they aren't geared/qualified. A simple "sorry guys" keeps that guy off the Ignore List and makes everyone more likely to offer advice and suggestions.

 

On the other hand, arrogant players who won't leave on their own or selfish players who bail without concern get the Iggie List with prejudice.

 

I try to remain respectful to all players. This includes those performing up to task, it is in no way respectful to subject your team/party/raid to the inefficiencies of others.

I also ran raids in these games that were so easily farmed by my groups that myself or other key members would bow out to give the people that were not performing to spec a chance at them. This gave those people experience in it, and chances at loot to help improve their QOL.

I have bowed out of things a few times due to myself not feeling my performance was up to standard, and I was often times my own harshest critic. These qualities should not be shunned in the eyes of the community.

It is okay to tell people they are bad at something.

 

I am tired of this hand holding, everyone's a winner mentality that people have been pushing for for the past 20 years. Not everyone is a winner, not everyone is great. There are underachievers, overachievers, and average people. There are numerous fill in the gap people also. It is okay to be any one of them. But do not expect to be lumped into a catagory in which you do not belong just because you pay the same amount to be there. Equal rights, equal opportunity will not equate to equal results in most cases.

Edited October 18, 2013 by EmperorLupey

[Grayseven]

Completely unneeded. Meters are just a crutch elitists use to make everything they do a skate.

 

Look at sub-par players as a challenge. I've healed bad tanks through FP's they had no business being in because I took it as a personal challenge to at least try to keep them alive. If we can't make it, I look at their gear, tell them what they have to do to improve and answer any questions they have.

 

In most HM's I can actually intersperse dps within my heals because I have the gear to do that. Instead of bemoaning your luck at getting sub-par players, enjoy the fact that you are actually facing a challenge.

[MillionsKNives]

Completely unneeded. Meters are just a crutch elitists use to make everything they do a skate.

 

Look at sub-par players as a challenge. I've healed bad tanks through FP's they had no business being in because I took it as a personal challenge to at least try to keep them alive. If we can't make it, I look at their gear, tell them what they have to do to improve and answer any questions they have.

 

In most HM's I can actually intersperse dps within my heals because I have the gear to do that. Instead of bemoaning your luck at getting sub-par players, enjoy the fact that you are actually facing a challenge.

 

Meters are a tool. Whether they're used as a crutch, for e-peen waggling, or for improving yourself is up to the person using them.

 

I think that having in-game shareable meters would welcome more bad behavior than otherwise, but I am happy that they have logging available to those that want to use it, and available in such a way that those that want to can share their parses freely. It's the best of both worlds where it's enough of a hassle that people won't demand it in PUGs but easy enough that groups can use it without much fuss if they prefer.

[chuixupu]

Completely unneeded. Meters are just a crutch elitists use to make everything they do a skate.

 

Look at sub-par players as a challenge. I've healed bad tanks through FP's they had no business being in because I took it as a personal challenge to at least try to keep them alive. If we can't make it, I look at their gear, tell them what they have to do to improve and answer any questions they have.

 

In most HM's I can actually intersperse dps within my heals because I have the gear to do that. Instead of bemoaning your luck at getting sub-par players, enjoy the fact that you are actually facing a challenge.

 

You don't need a damage meter to know you're playing with sub-par players, as you obviously know yourself. I see people in this game without meters boot people or leave because they don't want a challenge and people who are happy to stick with a difficult group. I don't see how the statements are even related.

[Grayseven]

You don't need a damage meter to know you're playing with sub-par players, as you obviously know yourself. I see people in this game without meters boot people or leave because they don't want a challenge and people who are happy to stick with a difficult group. I don't see how the statements are even related.

 

Then you don't need damage meters for anything. It's easy enough to tell when you have a sub-par player already, meters would just turn into an elitist tool or a crutch.

 

A sub-par player isn't going to know that X dps is below par, so the meter would have zero effect. If it is a personal meter it won't tell anyone else the reason for failing a HM FP, so again why is it needed?

 

Sorry, I've seen all the arguments for meters and none of them amount to more than e-peen in the end. I've seen what they did in WoW and they didn't help squat except make it easy for people to exclude others so they could breeze through everything they did.

[EmperorLupey]

Completely unneeded. Meters are just a crutch elitists use to make everything they do a skate.

 

Look at sub-par players as a challenge. I've healed bad tanks through FP's they had no business being in because I took it as a personal challenge to at least try to keep them alive. If we can't make it, I look at their gear, tell them what they have to do to improve and answer any questions they have.

 

In most HM's I can actually intersperse dps within my heals because I have the gear to do that. Instead of bemoaning your luck at getting sub-par players, enjoy the fact that you are actually facing a challenge.

 

You make claims against elitists, but provide grounds for being called one.

Again if the content is doable with people under performing the charts mean nothing. It is different when the requirements for that content become stronger than 1 persons ability to hold up the slack.

Not to be too rude about the matter, but your heals mean literally nothing in an enrage timer encounter. The only exception to this is if you are saying you can heal it alone with no help, and allow for other healers to not be present so more subpar dps can be involved. Even under those circumstances if the dps is still not performing well enough to beat the enrage timer I am sure words will need to be exchanged, and people replaced.

[EmperorLupey]

Sorry, I've seen all the arguments for meters and none of them amount to more than e-peen in the end. I've seen what they did in WoW and they didn't help squat except make it easy for people to exclude others so they could breeze through everything they did.

 

In WoW the introduction of DMG meters was a huge success. It allowed people to pin point mistakes in other peoples play, and help them rectify mistakes being made in rotation, gearing preference, and placement.

 

If your point is that it trivializes material, then it is up to the developers to create more challenging content.

 

Again under normal circumstances, and in most regards it will be a un-needed feature. In regards to raids, and pvp it will help things immensely. Realizing what things are causing the most damage to you, and which of your skills is performing the best is not bad. Finding out people are over healing by 30% of total heals, or who is not cleansing debuffs that should be are important factors.

[Grayseven]

You make claims against elitists, but provide grounds for being called one.

Again if the content is doable with people under performing the charts mean nothing. It is different when the requirements for that content become stronger than 1 persons ability to hold up the slack.

Not to be too rude about the matter, but your heals mean literally nothing in an enrage timer encounter. The only exception to this is if you are saying you can heal it alone with no help, and allow for other healers to not be present so more subpar dps can be involved. Even under those circumstances if the dps is still not performing well enough to beat the enrage timer I am sure words will need to be exchanged, and people replaced.

 

You are reading what you want to read, and not comprehending what was actually said.

 

And I'd really like to know exactly how I can be considered elitist? Because I can heal sub-par tanks through fights, or because I know what a sub-par tank is? If a tank goes into a HM FP at 55 with level 50 gear...he's sub-par. And yet I've kept such tanks alive through a number of fights. And if I can heal well enough to also throw out dps, I can help out sub-par dps. This isn't elitist, this is knowing my class and doing whatever it takes to help out a group.

 

We are talking FP's here, not OPs, so enrage timers aren't typically an issue so I'm not sure where you are coming from.

 

The simple fact is that I can recognize sub-par players and help them out all without any help from any sort of meter. The OP seems to have issue with people using HM's to gear up and wants a way to find an "easy" group so his "time" isn't wasted and I really don't see the need for that.

[Grayseven]

In WoW the introduction of DMG meters was a huge success. It allowed people to pin point mistakes in other peoples play, and help them rectify mistakes being made in rotation, gearing preference, and placement.

 

If your point is that it trivializes material, then it is up to the developers to create more challenging content.

 

Again under normal circumstances, and in most regards it will be a un-needed feature. In regards to raids, and pvp it will help things immensely. Realizing what things are causing the most damage to you, and which of your skills is performing the best is not bad. Finding out people are over healing by 30% of total heals, or who is not cleansing debuffs that should be are important factors.

 

Again, these are all readily apparent to anyone who has learned their class. The combat log will also show the info you need, as well as the tooltips. A dps meter isn't needed for any of this.