An Open Letter to BioWare: Improving the Overall State of SWTOR.

[branmakmuffin]

Not better.

Hate the game maker action's/lack thereof, more than I love the game IP. And I love the IP a whole lot, so that's saying a lot.

So you don't like the game or the game's maker. Why did you even play in the first place?

 

Good thing you're canceling your subscription, then.

Edited September 26, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[SenaZane]

"and you should not be able to complete Hard Mode until you are 80–90% in whatever tier gear that is dropped in Hard Mode."

 

Ok. Dumb question. If the only way to complete it is to already be in gear from completing it, how are you supposed to get the gear together to complete it that first time?

 

I mean, everyone has to start somewhere but if the only place that you can start is at the end, how are you supposed to get there? How are you supposed to handle that first run to get that gear?

 

Because frankly, I'm all for the system being tweaked a bit here and there but if that's the requirements for finishing anything, it sounds like it would lock everyone out who isn't down with some super-secret handshake that only the "cool kids" have and I'm not so certain that's very welcoming to new players.

 

I need to have Jurgens go back in and adjust that section. The problem with difficulty at the moment is that you can scrape through HMs in any min maxed gear of arkanian level (I have seen healers with partial pvp gear succeed in HMS). I think that the difficulty should be adjusted so that you need a good chunk of verpine level gear. A lot of people who min max generally want things like boot or gloves and these tend to drop on the earlier bosses, so you can get the mods/enhancements you require. You shouldn't be able to go into a hard mode after completing story mode and complete it with the same relative ease. This actually happened with my PVE guild with Scum and Villainy which is why I have this as a concern. There are other guilds who only come back for new content and leave after completion who also have this concern, some of which will not come back because of this fact.

 

First, insanely huge wall of text.

 

But you didn't think this part through. If the first boss is a DPS check, and people should have 80-90% of the gear that drops in the operation to clear it, how the heck would a group ever get past the first boss to get to that 80-90% gearing level?

 

I did. The last boss is going to be the hardest right? As you progress you obtain gear right? You won't always get to the end the first time you are in the raid if you up the difficulty so you will have multiple chances to get the gear you require as you progress further, or you can buy the verpine level mods and enhancements if you have the money and want to spend it. Maybe 80-90% is an unfair percentage but I don't think you should be able to complete a HM wearing only one or two pieces of the gear that drops in it.

Edited September 26, 2013 by SenaZane

[L-RANDLE]

So you don't like the game or the game's maker. Why did you even play in the first place?

 

Good thing you're canceling your subscription, then.

 

Is it really this hard to understand? Cement block to cement truck in less than two years.

 

FYI cement block weights about 10lbs and anvil weighs over 400lbs.

[branmakmuffin]

Is it really this hard to understand? Cement block to cement truck in less than two years.

 

FYI cement block weights about 10lbs and anvil weighs over 400lbs.

I guess what you're trying to say is that you used to like the game and you don't like it any more. Fair enough.

Edited September 26, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[SenaZane]

'I like this game so much I'm going to boycott it."

 

 

More like "I WANT to like this game but it is falling so short of its potential and I can no longer ignore the fact that they are avoiding problems."

[TUXs]

I guess what you're trying to say is that you used to like the game and you don't like it any more. Fair enough.

 

Are you EVER constructive and positive or are you ONLY a troll who posts to ruffle feathers? Honest question Bran. I've NEVER seen you not try to be inflammatory...EVER! Every post you make seems like it's meant to piss someone off.

[branmakmuffin]

More like "I WANT to like this game but it is falling so short of its potential and I can no longer ignore the fact that they are avoiding problems."

"Like" is a matter of choice. You either like it or you don't. If you don't like something, why would you want to like it? I used to like olives. Now I don't. If I wanted to like them again, I would simply do so.

 

And you can ignore whatever you choose to ignore. Stop acting like this game is a social justice movement.

 

Are you EVER constructive and positive or are you ONLY a troll who posts to ruffle feathers? Honest question Bran. I've NEVER seen you not try to be inflammatory...EVER! Every post you make seems like it's meant to piss someone off.

Then you only bother to read my posts in "controversial" threads. I'm glad you mentioned it was an honest question. Otherwise I would have assumed it was a dishonest one.

Edited September 26, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[L-RANDLE]

I guess what you're trying to say is that you used to like the game and you don't like it any more. Fair enough.

 

Its like buying a ticket to ride my favorite carnival ride over and over again, and being told every time "We are experiencing mechanical problems". After awhile you just stop buying tickets. It don't mean you dont like the ride anymore...

[TUXs]

Then you only bother to read my posts in "controversial" threads. I'm glad you mentioned it was an honest question. Otherwise I would have assumed it was a dishonest one.

 

Hmmm...speaking of dishonest...I don't think someone was being honest with their reply here...

[SenaZane]

"Like" is a matter of choice. You either like it or you don't. If you don't like something, why would you want to like it? I used to like olives. Now I don't. If I wanted to like them again, I would simply do so.

 

And you can ignore whatever you choose to ignore. Stop acting like this game is a social justice movement.

.

 

I like Star Wars. A Star Wars MMO is appealing to me. I was willing to put up with the less than satisfactory things for a very long time because of my love for Star Wars and hoped that the game would improve. I was at PAX East in 2012 and they had mentioned a lot of updates that sounded exciting, but were kinda vague so I stuck around to wait and see. All those updates have been released and they fell short of my expectations. I am dissatisfied still, but because I love Star Wars and I love MMOs, I am pleading for this game to improve. So yes I WANT TO LIKE this game

 

Liking a thing isn't black and white dear.

 

OMG wait, did I just say Bioware released things they said they would release. WELL COLOR ME TICKLED! I guess to those who don't believe Bioware will fulfill things they say they will, they do, just maybe not in the time frames we want or the way we want. I think if Bioware DOES respond to this and DO say they will attempt to change things, they will do so.

Edited September 26, 2013 by SenaZane

[captpickles]

the thing that surprises me, of the 32 (at this time of posting) surveys, almost 35% were reporting the ability lag / ability loss gcd bug as a primary..

 

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s_thankyou.aspx?sm=rNivz9sTlKTjkswc9LsMYX5gOh%2fovgq%2bQR9DAdBGi7s%3d

[L-RANDLE]

the thing that surprises me, of the 32 (at this time of posting) surveys, almost 35% were reporting the ability lag / ability loss gcd bug as a primary..

 

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s_thankyou.aspx?sm=rNivz9sTlKTjkswc9LsMYX5gOh%2fovgq%2bQR9DAdBGi7s%3d

 

It's affects both PvP and PvE, I'm not too surprised.

[FriendReferral]

the thing that surprises me, of the 32 (at this time of posting) surveys, almost 35% were reporting the ability lag / ability loss gcd bug as a primary..

 

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s_thankyou.aspx?sm=rNivz9sTlKTjkswc9LsMYX5gOh%2fovgq%2bQR9DAdBGi7s%3d

I was really surprised too, browsing the current results.

 

I believe the topic that concerns the engine is the most popular at the moment is because it revolves heavily around QoL features, and I think that's the only topic that RP'ers can relate to. Also, /stuck seems to be a prevalent issue even almost 2 years after launch, and it's just been an ongoing thing for patches to randomly FUBAR for customers again and again. Patches not being able to be installed correctly, performance being decreased for hundreds and hundreds of customers, etc.

 

With patches, we've seen mostly bug fixes sort of being band-aided rather than actually being fixed. I wonder if it's like hell trying to code this game in general since it runs on HeroEngine's heavily modified pre-alpha engine.

[Vorrmav]

a well written petition critical on all points an couldnt have been said any better /signed

[Arkerus]

"Like" is a matter of choice. You either like it or you don't. If you don't like something, why would you want to like it? I used to like olives. Now I don't. If I wanted to like them again, I would simply do so.

 

And you can ignore whatever you choose to ignore. Stop acting like this game is a social justice movement.

 

 

Then you only bother to read my posts in "controversial" threads. I'm glad you mentioned it was an honest question. Otherwise I would have assumed it was a dishonest one.

 

Bran, you da man.

[Andryah]

The IP is a huge attraction to this game, and it is what had/has me emotionally invested into this game.

 

I'm sure this is true for some. But at the end of the day... MMOs are complex and diverse. When players self-polarize on one or two aspects of an MMO as the only thing they care about (or are emotionally invested in), you have a ticking clock to frustration and dissatisfaction. It's human nature.

 

No MMO is all things to all people. An MMO is generally a number of things to most people... and frankly I have yet to play one where it was not a necessity to overlook it's weak points in order to actually enjoy it's strengths.

 

I get that not everyone approaches MMOs from that perspective.. but honestly.. if you are emotionally invested in the IP, then it benefits you to want the best, but play and enjoy what you have for as long as you enjoy it. Frankly.. the strong IP in this MMO does give it an advantage over other MMOs like Rift where the IP is interesting to a point.. but carries no broad social appeal such as we have with SW lore.

 

Embracing what is good, and discussing and asking for remedy to what is not good is productive and positive from the broader player base. Leaving because something is not exactly what you want does not encourage the devs to do more of what you want... because you left. Yeah, you are being a mature consumer since you should not play what you do not enjoy.. but you also forfeit your voice toward change at the same time.

 

Sure, they're introducing Arenas, but they're being executed almost just the same exact way Ranked WZs were.

 

How do you know this? I think the reality is that they hastily assembled ranked WZ because players asked for it.. then before investing more time and energy in it.. they stepped back to see if the players were actually serious about playing ranked WZ. What they found was that the broader player base did not walk the talk. So they put time and energy into smaller scale ranked play... as their telemetry showed them that it was more about scale then anything else inhibiting ranked WZ play. Right or wrong from any of our personal perspectives.. this is their analysis and conclusion and so they designed and will shortly deploy ranked arena play. AND.. they have not said that ranked WZ would never return... just that there was no firm commitment to bring them back. Personally, I think if arenas are successful, they will build on them and re-release 8 man ranked PvP as well.. either warzone or something similar. IF people walk their talk and play and work with the devs on direction of improvement over time. Key word.. over time. Nothing turns on a dime in an MMO.

 

SureEven though the combat team is mostly PvP oriented, they have no understanding on how each class and their specs really works because PvP is just going to be full of lolSmashers and Scouperative trolololols.

 

Did you really mean this, or are you exaggerating to make a point????? [because they have committed to balance improvements already, which worst case implies "some" understanding]. I ask because categoric statements using absolutes like "no understanding" is the fast track to being ignored by a dev team. Do they understand them well enough? Perhaps, perhaps not.. depending on who you talk to. But to say they have "no" is inaccurate in any objective sense.

 

I support this thread and encourage the devs to engage with the community through it because it was fair and balanced in it's context. You destroy it with absolute statements like the above IMO. IMO you are again letting your frustrations take over the discussion.. and if the thread becomes a complaint fest again.. it's not going to get sincere repsonses from Bioware.

 

/2-cents

Edited September 26, 2013 by Andryah

[captpickles]

I was really surprised too, browsing the current results.

 

I believe the topic that concerns the engine is the most popular at the moment is because it revolves heavily around QoL features, and I think that's the only topic that RP'ers can relate to. Also, /stuck seems to be a prevalent issue even almost 2 years after launch, and it's just been an ongoing thing for patches to randomly FUBAR for customers again and again. Patches not being able to be installed correctly, performance being decreased for hundreds and hundreds of customers, etc.

 

With patches, we've seen mostly bug fixes sort of being band-aided rather than actually being fixed. I wonder if it's like hell trying to code this game in general since it runs on HeroEngine's heavily modified pre-alpha engine.

 

yeah /stuck == facepalm. and i think you are right, the engine and its "quirks" have to be a complete B^&*() to fix... I mean... alpha code, modified.. 32 bit only.. the hero-team must look at this and cringe.

[L-RANDLE]

I dont think its forfeiting your voice. Its not like your toons will be deleted or you never can come back. My voice is just as valid as a non sub, as it is with one.

If anything, it is a negotiation, and I am going to put my sub money in "escrow" until I see some changes or lose interest.

[Andryah]

I dont think its forfeiting your voice. Its not like your toons will be deleted or you never can come back. My voice is just as valid as a non sub, as it is with one.

If anything, it is a negotiation, and I am going to put my sub money in "escrow" until I see some changes or lose interest.

 

You cannot "negotiate" if you have no voice.

 

The forum is a voice channel, and about your only one for any active voice with the devs.

 

Unsubbing is the right thing for a mature consumer to do if they really do not enjoy the game.. but make no mistake...it removes your active voice from the discussion about the state of the game and it's direction.

 

Sure.. you can always resub.. and play whatever it is they decided (without you input) to provide you.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Andryah

[L-RANDLE]

You cannot "negotiate" if you have no voice.

 

The forum is a voice channel, and about your only one for any active voice with the devs.

 

Unsubbing is the right thing for a mature consumer to do if they really do not enjoy the game.. but make no mistake...it removes your active voice from the discussion about the state of the game and it's direction.

 

Sure.. you can always resub.. and play whatever it is they decided (without you input) to provide you.

 

Disagree...

I am fully aware of the current state. If nothing changes, I am still fully aware of the current state of the game, regardless of what I do with my playtime or sub. I still have a voice and there are plenty of negotiations done in a similar manor.

[FriendReferral]

I'm sure this is true for some. But at the end of the day... MMOs are complex and diverse. When players self-polarize on one or two aspects of an MMO as the only thing they care about (or are emotionally invested in), you have a ticking clock to frustration and dissatisfaction. It's human nature.

 

No MMO is all things to all people. An MMO is generally a number of things to most people... and frankly I have yet to play one where it was not a necessity to overlook it's weak points in order to actually enjoy it's strengths.

 

I get that not everyone approaches MMOs from that perspective.. but honestly.. if you are emotionally invested in the IP, then it benefits you to want the best, but play and enjoy what you have for as long as you enjoy it. Frankly.. the strong IP in this MMO does give it an advantage over other MMOs like Rift where the IP is interesting to a point.. but carries no broad social appeal such as we have with SW lore.

 

Embracing what is good, and discussing and asking for remedy to what is not good is productive and positive from the broader player base. Leaving because something is not exactly what you want does not encourage the devs to do more of what you want... because you left. Yeah, you are being a mature consumer since you should not play what you do not enjoy.. but you also forfeit your voice toward change at the same time.

Well as you've said before, there are other MMOs and other games not of the genre that would better cater to niche play styles at the moment. I believe in the past you've mentioned EVE Online, but IMO from what I've read it doesn't look interesting at all. For one, I would love to have my own avatar; not have it based on this ship controlling nonsense. If I wanted that, I'd play Empire at War.

 

Do you remember Pistols? I know I used to agree with him on pretty much all points when you guys got into quarrels, but that's not the point. We'd forfeit our X amount of time to voice for change of the game after we unsubscribe, but not overall. I think I know what you're trying to say, but each has its own benefits and drawbacks. I'd rather side with the benefits and drawbacks of unsubscribing, then using the question box of why I unsubscribed and hope to see the devs noticed why more players of my play style were dropping off the radar.

 

Sadly, I did get to my breaking point and unless some major changes are made for PvP I don't see myself ever coming back. It's the cold, hard truth of it all, and I love this IP to death.

 

How do you know this? I think the reality is that they hastily assembled ranked WZ because players asked for it.. then before investing more time and energy in it.. they stepped back to see if the players were actually serious about playing ranked WZ. What they found was that the broader player base did not walk the talk. So they put time and energy into smaller scale ranked play... as their telemetry showed them that it was more about scale then anything else inhibiting ranked WZ play. Right or wrong from any of our personal perspectives.. this is their analysis and conclusion and so they designed and will shortly deploy ranked arena play. AND.. they have not said that ranked WZ would never return... just that there was no firm commitment to bring them back. Personally, I think if arenas are successful, they will build on them and re-release 8 man ranked PvP as well.. either warzone or something similar. IF people walk their talk and play and work with the devs on direction of improvement over time. Key word.. over time. Nothing turns on a dime in an MMO.

I'm sorry, but I'm gonna have to put my personal perspective here.

 

I know it's just not me, but I know many others and have seen many others a part of the PvP forums of these boards who don't agree with BW's analyses and conclusions on this.

 

I didn't want this petition to sound threatening like the last one did, but respectfully their PvP/combat team just didn't understand why Ranked WZs failed in the first place. I remember seeing all of the replies they made to others asking anything related to RWZs, and it was just mostly a "we're working on it" response. Nothing more.

 

I know many players here (including you) don't visit the PvP forums very often, or if anything at all, but the interaction there from the community/dev team is like trying to win playing Pazaak with a Wookiee.

 

Additionally, I know you read the last "petition" and I did add my own thoughts on why RWZs failed, partially due to the fault of the community itself...

One of the main issues why more players could not queue was that the top Ranked PvP guilds wouldn't recruit anyone unless they wanted you. End of story. Pretty much all of the top PvP guilds never recruited with an “open door policy”.

 

Additionally, newly formed PvP guilds couldn't get off the ground without a good number of PvP'ers. Most of them have to be skilled in Warzones too, so other PvP'ers that were not in the guild could realize how good the POSSIBLE upcoming PvP guild would be for their faction.

 

Speaking as a hardcore and avid PvP'er, let me say that the pool of available players to recruit for a hardcore and avid PvP guild is miniscule. Try skilled, geared and available to recruit? Now you're just trying your luck on winning the lotto…

 

Conclusively, RWZs was something more for the "cool kids only" club, but ultimately I think it rests that the PvP/combat team was responsible for letting this happen.

 

Did you really mean this, or are you exaggerating to make a point????? [because they have committed to balance improvements already, which worst case implies "some" understanding]. I ask because categoric statements using absolutes like "no understanding" is the fast track to being ignored by a dev team. Do they understand them well enough? Perhaps, perhaps not.. depending on who you talk to. But to say they have "no" is inaccurate in any objective sense.

I meant it.

 

I said that out of what class balance has become at this point. If you PvP on a major level, you'd know that the preferred class specs and comps would be nothing but lolSmashers and Scouperative trolololols (maybe a Guard/Jugg Tank included for SOME teams). It doesn't seem like that's going to change very soon, and that's why it seems like the execution of Arenas is going to mirror what the execution of RWZs was.

 

I support this thread and encourage the devs to engage with the community through it because it was fair and balanced in it's context. You destroy it with absolute statements like the above IMO. IMO you are again letting your frustrations take over the discussion.. and if the thread becomes a complaint fest again.. it's not going to get sincere repsonses from Bioware.

 

/2-cents

That's just how I feel overall, and I'm not the only one. I even had to point out Pistols as a player of my caliber who felt the exact same way. I know he no longer plays and has permanently quit, but I think it's also important for BW to realize how I—and the overall PvP community—feel on all of this.

 

I also want the PvP community to know that I would like to represent them as best as I can. I'm pretty sure that my views, feelings and statements can be described for them, too.

Edited September 26, 2013 by FriendReferral

[NoFishing]

I did. The last boss is going to be the hardest right? As you progress you obtain gear right? You won't always get to the end the first time you are in the raid if you up the difficulty so you will have multiple chances to get the gear you require as you progress further, or you can buy the verpine level mods and enhancements if you have the money and want to spend it. Maybe 80-90% is an unfair percentage but I don't think you should be able to complete a HM wearing only one or two pieces of the gear that drops in it.

 

I'm fine with and agree that later bosses should be harder than earlier ones. I'm even fine with saying the final boss should be tuned for a group that has at least 50% of the gear from the earlier bosses in hard/nightmare modes. But that means the first bosses have to be tuned for the previous tier of gear, i.e, relatively easy, and not a "DPS check" in the current sense. Otherwise you are saying a group shouldn't be able to get the gear from the first boss, without having some gear from all the bosses, because a DPS check is a check for the whole operation, not the next boss.

Edited September 26, 2013 by NoFishing

[Andryah]

I said that out of what class balance has become at this point. If you PvP on a major level, you'd know that the preferred class specs and comps would be nothing but lolSmashers and Scouperative trolololols (maybe a Guard/Jugg Tank included for SOME teams). It doesn't seem like that's going to change very soon, and that's why it seems like the execution of Arenas is going to mirror what the execution of RWZs was.

 

1) every MMO I have ever played has suffered from class preference by players. It's where the term FoTM came from too.. as devs try to balance the classes in an MMO.. the players always find and fixate on some class that they perceive is better then the rest as devs make balance adjustments. It's the nature of the "non-realm team warfare" PvP player unfortunately.

 

2) It's unfortunate to see you insist on making absolute judgments as to the talents of (or lack of) the PvP devs. I won't support it because there is simply no way it is true. It's a pejorative exaggeration, made by PvP players who are not getting what they want and want to lash out at the devs in some sort of revenge or spite.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Andryah

[Rafaman]

A few additional thoughts.

 

So first, I've said before, and I'm sure I'll say it again, but this is not a political movement, it is a service. You vote with your dollars. I stand by this.

 

In this case what we have is a group of people who want to vote or continue to vote for the service. They see changes that could be made to make it so. So, I see nothing wrong starting a dialogue to make this service all it can be and keep and maybe even grow the customer base. It is in fact quite common among big businesses to do this very thing. Beta testing, focus groups, usability testing, customer questionnaires are all a part of this and occur across industries that produce a product or a service. And, in a very real sense this is what we have here. In this case customers identified some needs on their own and are bringing them forward. So, BW, in my opinion should be thankful that customers care enough to do this before the choose not to vote.

 

Now, as for the IP? Well, there is no question that it has an impact. And let's be honest, there is enough already in the game itself to make customers regret leaving. But it isn't exactly a zero sum game. If those customers were to get at least some of their needs addressed they will stay. And what is more, if there is an effort to do this by BW, that will inspire customer loyalty among the broader base. It can be a win, win, even if the itemized list of issues aren't yours. The mere fact that there is an attempt at having them addressed will go along way.

 

Specifically, as it relates to this petition, I think PvP is the rock being turned over. Underneath we see items I would categorize as low hanging fruit that impact all customers. The ability delay issue is one fruit. It might not be easy to fix, but here is an issue that would greatly benefit the whole. And that's not to say that issues like class balancing aren't important. But it is a way to at least begin addressing customer needs.

 

Class balancing. This is a tricky one because opinions do vary and again, to be honest, players have a vested interested depending on what class they choose to play. Nerfing one for the betterment of others will make some unhappy. But here again, BW can start with the low hanging fruit. Look at Shadow dps for example. That class has been severely under powered for a while. And speaking specifically in the PvE world, you don't need parses or a detailed analysis to see the impact. Shadow dps are a rare sight in Ops or endgame content. I'm not talking about hardcore Ops either where the Ops lead picks what he or she wants to see in the group. I'm talking about a phenomenon that permeates normal game play even flashpoints. Such an issue can be easily remedied by tweaking a few key abilities for the Shadow NOT nerfing other classes. Low haning fruit. There... do that BW and people will see there is a reason to hang around. To vote with their dollars.

 

Last, and my apologies for the new wall of text, this petition is an indication that we need a dialogue with BW to keep customers who are on the fence subscribing. That customers do want to stay and a simple dialogue will keep them here while the effort continues to make this game better. I have been very general in my comments because I would rather get into the details if and when we get a response. Then we will have something to work with.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Rafaman

[mmjarec]

1) every MMO I have ever played has suffered from class preference by players. It's where the term FoTM came from too.. as devs try to balance the classes in an MMO.. the players always find and fixate on some class that they perceive is better then the rest as devs make balance adjustments. It's the nature of the "non-realm team warfare" PvP player unfortunately.

 

2) It's unfortunate to see you insist on making absolute judgments as to the talents of (or lack of) the PvP devs. I won't support it because there is simply no way it is true. It's a pejorative exaggeration, made by PvP players who are not getting what they want and want to lash out at the devs in some sort of revenge or spite.

 

Yeah im not getting what i want how about balance enough to be more than a node guard with two worthless specs. All you have to do is play the class and look at the changes made then run a parse to see that they know nothing about their own classes or they wouldnt make changes that keep sins at least 500 dps below everyone with burst that isnt much if any better than others like mara ravage