Akrian Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 You're right, it is binary coded hexidecimal, sorry for the incorrect label earlier. It is however very harsh, that I do agree with. However I am tired of the OP constantly sticking his head in the sand when he has been proven wrong so many times. I do not have a degree in programming, but I do have one in hardware, Computer and Electronics Engineering, and even I know what he is asking, while not impossible, is so far outside of the reasonable it will never happen. Basic econ, a course I know I was required to take, proves why it is not going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHboy Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 You're right, it is binary coded hexidecimal, sorry for the incorrect label earlier. It is however very harsh, that I do agree with. However I am tired of the OP constantly sticking his head in the sand when he has been proven wrong so many times. I do not have a degree in programming, but I do have one in hardware, Computer and Electronics Engineering, and even I know what he is asking, while not impossible, is so far outside of the reasonable it will never happen. Basic econ, a course I know I was required to take, proves why it is not going to happen. WE do make BETTER programmers for embedded and low level details (hardware integration, drivers etc) don't we. Which is exactly the type of problem here. Porting over to a new engine might as well just say porting over to new HW/OS etc which all deal with new API (application programing interfaces for those in Rio Linda) and porting. We are talking about porting over our 100k line application to a new RTOS...bidding it out at $1million dollars and 12 months (minimum) needless to say it hasnt been a high priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThiborF Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 so tell me how these guys can do a whole game from the ground up in 2 years? https://robertsspaceindustries.com/ now once you wrapped your head around that get back to me about what can't and can be done. I've bought into that game and I'm anxiously awaiting future updates. It certainly shows promise. Now, if you have a couple hours, let me sit down and tell you about ALL the MMOs that initially appeared to have promise and delivered far short of the hype ... But seriously, Cloud Imperium was founded in 2011 by Chris Roberts. For those that don't know the name, he worked on the original Wing Commander along with Privateer and Freelancer. Anyone who's enjoyed older space based PC games likely knows his work. In late '12 they started the crowd funding aspect. As of now, they have eclipsed $20m in crowd funding. The game is being built with CryEngine3. Currently what's available to backers is the "Hangar Module". You get to walk around your hangar and view and enter your ship. Current updates trickling in are allowing users to add certain items to their hangars. That's it. End of list. So far ... The dog fighting module is expected later this year. They are slowly releasing portions of the game as they get to alpha stages for the backers to play around with and help bug test. True beta of the game is not expected until late '14 if not mid-'15. So too Hazed, building a "complete" game in two years ... not quite. Nice try though. And again, they are developing for a specific engine they've selected. They are not taking something that has thousands, if not millions of little things that all interact in an existing engine and then trying to move all that over to a new one and making sure every single one of those things still works as intended. I truly hope Roberts delivers on everything he's been touting because it should be very fun if so. So ... CryEngine3 viable for a MMO? Sure. Does it change ANYTHING about the difficulty in moving an existing game over to it? NO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malastare Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 I truly hope Roberts delivers on everything he's been touting because it should be very fun if so. So ... CryEngine3 viable for a MMO? Sure. Does it change ANYTHING about the difficulty in moving an existing game over to it? NO. But if Chris Roberts and a team of experienced game developers can create a game with a scope that's almost half as big as an MMO in four years, surely a team of interns can rewrite an MMO from scratch in a few months... Right? [/sarcasm] [/heavy-sarcasm] [/seriously-huge-amounts-of-sarcasm] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akrian Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 I too hope he can pull off Star Citizen, however I worked at Digital Anvil, his company in 2000, and he single handedly killed that company through misuse of company funds. I will not be supporting him with my money till I see something tangible, with a solid release date. Till then this is nothing more then smoke and mirrors, and that is coming from someone who was a huge Chris Roberts fan. I loved the Wing Commander and Privateer series. I hated testing Sleeplancer, I mean Freelancer, which at the time I worked there was already in year 5 of development, way over budget and still came out as a half finished product, with nice space physics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathDealKill Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 You could not be more wrong if you tried. EA financials are actually more sound then Blizzards. Why? Because EA is broadly diversified such that any single, or even multiple, game properties can underperform and they still operate and report sound operations and financials. Blizzard is heavily exposed to any rapid movements in a single game property --> WoW. Protip: In the Sarbanes Oxley era of corporate reporting and accountability... you cannot materially mis-represent your financials to investors. Corporate officers go to jail if they do, and so does their independent auditor. Having been involved in audit reviews of product financials in the Sarbanes Oxley era, I can tell you for a fact that company execs are deathly afraid of mis-representing company financials.. because they have to sign off on them and are held legally responsible for them once they do. Learn business regulatory statutes and enforcement, and how it actually works, or stop pontificating IMO. Protip: You need to become a "Pro" before you give out tips. So until then, all that you say is ignored. End Protip: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Protip: You need to become a "Pro" before you give out tips. So until then, all that you say is ignored. End Protip: I would be happy to have a Sarbanes Oxley compliance discussion with you, at any depth you would like. Your move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed Posted October 1, 2013 Author Share Posted October 1, 2013 It is sad that you all think this is a joke, especially when peoples jobs are on the line. I really hope they decide to just switch engines and not pull the plug on this project, but with how little you guys know about the development process of an MMORPG, it looks like there won't be no ups in this nottingham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malastare Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 I really hope they decide to just switch engines Again: Switching a games engine is like: Having surgery to replace your skeleton Replacing all the walls and floors in a house Replacing the frame and drive-chain of your car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorstram Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 It is sad that you all think this is a joke, especially when peoples jobs are on the line. I really hope they decide to just switch engines and not pull the plug on this project, but with how little you guys know about the development process of an MMORPG, it looks like there won't be no ups in this nottingham. Again, the engine is in place, it's too late to change it without completely relaunching the game. EA will not pay for a FFXIV'esque reboot. This is the game you're stuck with, if it makes you so unhappy that you're still bumping this 50+ page off topic QQ fest, then you should probably go find another game. Perhaps one of those terrible looking games you posted earlier in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Protip: You need to become a "Pro" before you give out tips. So until then, all that you say is ignored. End Protip: She isn't making anything up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThiborF Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 It is sad that you all think this is a joke, especially when peoples jobs are on the line. I really hope they decide to just switch engines and not pull the plug on this project, but with how little you guys know about the development process of an MMORPG, it looks like there won't be no ups in this nottingham. What's sad is you seem to be the only person, or one of a VERY small few (I cannot claim to have read all 550 pages) in 50 pages holding on to the delusion that not only this easily possible (with time being the only factor) but, a viable, cost effective solution to the problems of the game. Some have been illustrating their greater amount of experience in the industry, programming, or simply IT, than the degree you have and fall back on as the feather in your cap of proof that you know of that which you speak. Others have used simple logic to make points that you either ignore, choose not to answer or make poor attempts to talk your way around. Regardless, you seem to have a death grip on the certainty of how viable it is. If you truly believe that to be true than it shouldn't be at all difficult to go out and secure venture capital to take any one of a number of aging but, well revered MMO titles, and bring them up to graphical snuff by porting them to CryEngine3. I mean there should be plenty of people in the industry, ones with FAR more experience than your degree in how things actually work in the game development world, that would be lining up to get on the chance to make bank by bringing much loved games back into the forefront by giving them what amounts to a face lift. So why don't you go on out there and prove us wrong and make it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafaman Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 It is sad that you all think this is a joke, especially when peoples jobs are on the line. I really hope they decide to just switch engines and not pull the plug on this project, but with how little you guys know about the development process of an MMORPG, it looks like there won't be no ups in this nottingham. Bro... seriously. This isn't white knight spam. This engine you are talking about? It's not like a car engine. It is not replete with replaceable parts that at a moments notice can be changed like spark plugs. The argument against a new engine isn't that it shouldn't be done. It's that it isn't possible without shutting down the game and starting from scratch. Yes, throw all the money at it in the world and it can't be done. You don't retro fit a SW engine, you design the game anew. Why? Because every texture, every object, every runtime routine is tied to that engine by "customizations". IT IS NOT A SNAP ON. That is what that other game, mentioned from time to time, did btw. The shuttered the game and redev it. That's what it takes. That is why your initial video was irrelevant. A series of camera angles floating through an environment doesn't even come close to approximating an engines effectiveness. I'm starting to think... you are trolling. If so... good on you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kynesis Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Yknow.. if you've got a spare Sunday afternoon there Hazed, why not grab a nice flexible little Unity3D game full of fluffy friendly Python & Javascript and just plug it into say, a nice sparkly new Unreal4 (with a few little tweaks, like those you noted earlier of course). Show everybody just how easy it is - be sure to get back to us when you're done. Oh... don't forget full performance testing & optimisation for 30+ video cards, backend integration and asset conversions Bye! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir-Coffee Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Again: Switching a games engine is like: Having surgery to replace your skeleton Replacing all the walls and floors in a house Replacing the frame and drive-chain of your car ^ This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectreclees Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 The title of this thread should be: Please optimize the engine better now before it's too late! Switching is a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelersWay Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Protip: You need to become a "Pro" before you give out tips. So until then, all that you say is ignored. End Protip: She happens to be right, so to ignore is to further your own ignorance. It is sad that you all think this is a joke, especially when peoples jobs are on the line. I really hope they decide to just switch engines and not pull the plug on this project, but with how little you guys know about the development process of an MMORPG, it looks like there won't be no ups in this nottingham. Really, you can't be that clueless can you? You must just be trolling at this point. To switch engines IS to pull the plug on this game. Cannot be done otherwise. New Engine=Starting new game from scratch. Oh, and to point something else out in your OP - EA has complete rights to the Star Wars IP and license. Disney cannot send it to one of their dev teams (mostly because their restructuring eliminated game development from the picture), nor send it to another third party dev - that would be breech of contract on their part. EA will be the determining entity on which of their dev teams makes Star Wars games from now on, including another MMO if they are so inclined to have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenhurst Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 http://www.frostbite.com/team/values/ check the clients list, maybe it's already happening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuixupu Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 http://www.frostbite.com/team/values/ check the clients list, maybe it's already happening Doubt it since Frostbite simply isn't ideal for an MMO like this. More likely, there is another project in the works that will use it (I have heard several hints that there is some secret new IP being worked on, Daniel Erickson had mentioned he was asked to work on it before he decided to leave) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callaron Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 (edited) Doubt it since Frostbite simply isn't ideal for an MMO like this. More likely, there is another project in the works that will use it (I have heard several hints that there is some secret new IP being worked on, Daniel Erickson had mentioned he was asked to work on it before he decided to leave) Agreed, I hightly doubt it'd be for TOR. I also saw an article that mentioned Bioware is creating another Star Wars game. And since they're already using Frostbite for Dragon Age: Inquisition... I'd say it's pretty likely that they'll use it on the new SW game too. One of the articles that mentions Bioware. EA labels president Frank Gibeau noted that Dead Space developer Visceral and Battlefield developer DICE will be making Star Wars titles, as will BioWare, which already handled the [Knight of] The Old Republic series. "Every developer dreams of creating games for the Star Wars universe," said Gibeau. "The new experiences we create may borrow from films, but the games will be entirely original with all new stories and gameplay." "Powering it all will be the Frostbite 3 development engine - guaranteeing incredible graphic fidelity, environments and characters," he added Edited October 27, 2013 by Callaron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 http://www.frostbite.com/team/values/ check the clients list, maybe it's already happening Well, BioWare is planning to use Frostbite on pretty much all their new games from now on, or so it seems. Dragon Age: Inqusition will use it, the yet-unannounced-but-definitely-happening Mass Effect 4 (or whatever its name will be) will probably use it, and whatever the super secret new IP is, it will probably use it as well. However, all these games are NOT made by BioWare Austin. BW Austin was created specifically for developing SWTOR. So, unless EA is planning to invest into another MMO, it is very interesting topic to discuss As to the OP: Dude, get a grip. Engines are not "plug and play". Just like you cannot put Bugatti Veyron engine into Ford Fiesta without some major rebuilding of the Fiesta, you cannot just take art assets created for Hero engine, throw them into Whatever-MMO-Super-Engine and expect them to somehow miraculously convert themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callaron Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 However, all these games are NOT made by BioWare Austin. BW Austin was created specifically for developing SWTOR. So, unless EA is planning to invest into another MMO, it is very interesting topic to discuss As the article I linked mentions, they will also be doing a new SW game. There's no reason BW Austin couldn't be the one making it, right? I imagine a lot of the people that made KOTOR are working there, along with Bioware's resident Star Wars gurus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuixupu Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 As the article I linked mentions, they will also be doing a new SW game. There's no reason BW Austin couldn't be the one making it, right? I imagine a lot of the people that made KOTOR are working there, along with Bioware's resident Star Wars gurus. They could be, but the article doesn't actually say they're making a new Star Wars game. As I recall from the original source, they simply said they're continuing to make Star Wars games, meaning SWTOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHboy Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 we almost had this killed off and left for dead. WHYYYY!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noxsabe Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 first fact, i don't like walls of text! so i did not read all sorry. second fact, the op has no clue what he is talking about! 3de fact, yes they are killing this game by abusing the name "star wars" ! cartel prizes are, well ridicules. "please don't reply.. its a company and they need to make money bla bla bla", i know but that don't mean they have the right to scam us out of hard urn money. i mostly blame EA for this, they are the drive behind the prizes i'm practically sure of it. 4th fact, the game has code problems, no one will say otherwise, pore code writing results in pore game play! i have steady fps in more modern games like BF4 then i have in this game and with a power-house of a computer, that just insane. pvp "open world, big groups" i don't have fps at all. go figure. again don't reply bad PC or what ever, none of my other games has fps problems. 5th and final fact, THEY DON'T CARE THAT WE CARE, SO LETS ALL STOP PLAYING THIS GAME AND SHOW THEM THEY ARE WRONG! "and no i'm not sorry for the caps" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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