Evolixe Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 You are saying from that range you can sap speed to the other side of the node and cap before the sap wears off and i get los to interrupt. Yes. Have a character on ToFN/PoT5? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikGW Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Yes. Have a character on ToFN/PoT5? I had one on pot5 but transferred off. Too many angry children :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverickmatt Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Yes. Have a character on ToFN/PoT5? I have one or two or ten on Pot5. I'll be waiting and eager to test your theories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 I have one or two or ten on Pot5. I'll be waiting and eager to test your theories. Any in the 30-54 bracket that doesn't lack anything you need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishbindeinvater Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) good sins never, ever use those skills in that type of rotation. ever. thats not even close to optimal, and you forgot the biggest bighitter the sin has... hmm maybe i am a noob, but which bighitter do you mean?! :-) i ve got no real rotation, but i hit spike, maul, another maul if possible, low slash, maul, recklessness, discharge, shock, assassinate i mean its PvP and in realtiy I dont follow any rotation, I had times i opened with recklessness, discharge, shock, low slash, maul ... it all depends on the situation (i do that when i am not the only one attacking that guy and want to dish out fast burst) i never use crushing darkness. i know, its probably the best in 1v1 when you use low slash or the hard stun and the enemy has no cc-breaker, but its just not my playstyle. i hate cast bars I am using VS often in combination with overcharged saber because of the +100% damage on the charges. about capping, i think its best for 2 stealthers at once. you kill people so fast they cant even react. either they are dead calling for help which will come too late, or they dont call and fight and are also dead :-) Edited September 19, 2013 by ishbindeinvater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishbindeinvater Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 You are saying from that range you can sap speed to the other side of the node and cap before the sap wears off and i get los to interrupt. I'm saying you can't, and i interrupt sins that try to very often. In fact, it has been many months since anybody sap capped me and when they did it was my fault lol i guess it really depends on which class he/she is fighting. it wont work against any good player who plays a class which has placed AoE like death field or sweeping blasters. I think its impossible against sorc, other assassins, snipers, mercenaries, rolling operatives... but which classes are mostly guarding nodes? operatives, assassins, powertechs, sorcs, at least this is what i see in my games. but i think the pull/phase walk trick can work against almost any class (perhaps except sorcs/assassins with death field) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olcraft Posted September 19, 2013 Author Share Posted September 19, 2013 Thank you for all the replies. It was very enlightening. But i am still confused which sins abilities i must interrupt and how to prevent them from negating my defense abilities. There is no way i can prevent an experienced sin player 's initial spike - maul combo. So assassins always start ahead of me in terms of dps. But what I want to do is to keep my health above 30% as long as I can and negate their hardest dps abilities as well as their defensive abilities. Now how do i do that? For example, can I just force push any time i want before the assassins pop their force shroud? Does Awe prevent an assassin from vanishing into stealth again? When is the best time to utilize Sabre Reflect or Force Stasis? When is the best time to use the cc breaker? Are snares any useful at all against assassins? When is the best time to activate my defensive abilities such as Sabre Ward, Focused Defense, etc.? I have so many questions like that and it sometimes drives me crazy wondering whether i did right or wrong. Anyway I appreciate your replies and thank you for indulging my interrogation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Thank you for all the replies. It was very enlightening. But i am still confused which sins abilities i must interrupt and how to prevent them from negating my defense abilities. There is no way i can prevent an experienced sin player 's initial spike - maul combo. So assassins always start ahead of me in terms of dps. But what I want to do is to keep my health above 30% as long as I can and negate their hardest dps abilities as well as their defensive abilities. Now how do i do that? For example, can I just force push any time i want before the assassins pop their force shroud? Does Awe prevent an assassin from vanishing into stealth again? When is the best time to utilize Sabre Reflect or Force Stasis? When is the best time to use the cc breaker? Are snares any useful at all against assassins? When is the best time to activate my defensive abilities such as Sabre Ward, Focused Defense, etc.? I have so many questions like that and it sometimes drives me crazy wondering whether i did right or wrong. Anyway I appreciate your replies and thank you for indulging my interrogation. The thing is that theise questions are incrediably hard to answer because every situation is different. You have to figure for yourself what ability is best to use when. PvP is like chess, always be at least one step ahead of your opponent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domatron Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) It's going to be a tough fight to beat any assassin worth their salt in a 1v1, they win all the tourneys for a reason. That said a couple tips for you as a Vig jug. Deflection will kill your damage against him, if he pops it without shroud use your awe or choke and cc him to negate at least some of the uptime. Don't drop below 30%, use medpacks, endure pain etc. Saber ward will deflect mauls and low slash (not always but enough), it will help you survive the burst, I like to use it when he pops shroud offensively. There is always the chance he will just stun you through it but hopefully it makes him waste shroud. Reflect is tough to time to actually reflect big damage, but it is a decent counter to an offensive force shroud as well. I would recommend using push, leap combo when he has blackout up or some form of cc if you can, because of the 25% dam reduction and additional force regen this cd provides, you can't ignore it. Lastly, something I don't think I've seen mentioned here, if he vanishes use aoe taunt immediately. If he is hit with the taunt he will stay in combat and be unable to sap regen on you. Most of all if you are guarding a node, pre-type the inc call then just click on a nameplate to resume regular key use. The second the assassin shows up use the first 1.5s you are stunned to hit enter twice to send the call. You don't have to win the 1v1 you just have to hold long enough for help. Edited September 19, 2013 by Domatron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olcraft Posted September 19, 2013 Author Share Posted September 19, 2013 The thing is that theise questions are incrediably hard to answer because every situation is different. You have to figure for yourself what ability is best to use when. PvP is like chess, always be at least one step ahead of your opponent. Trial and error ya I understand. Thank you for your reply nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olcraft Posted September 19, 2013 Author Share Posted September 19, 2013 It's going to be a tough fight to beat any assassin worth their salt in a 1v1, they win all the tourneys for a reason. That said a couple tips for you as a Vig jug. Deflection will kill your damage against him, if he pops it without shroud use your awe or choke and cc him to negate at least some of the uptime. Don't drop below 30%, use medpacks, endure pain etc. Saber ward will deflect mauls and low slash (not always but enough), it will help you survive the burst, I like to use it when he pops shroud offensively. There is always the chance he will just stun you through it but hopefully it makes him waste shroud. Reflect is tough to time to actually reflect big damage, but it is a decent counter to an offensive force shroud as well. I would recommend using push, leap combo when he has blackout up or some form of cc if you can, because of the 25% dam reduction and additional force regen this cd provides, you can't ignore it. Lastly, something I don't think I've seen mentioned here, if he vanishes use aoe taunt immediately. If he is hit with the taunt he will stay in combat and be unable to sap regen on you. Most of all if you are guarding a node, pre-type the inc call then just click on a nameplate to resume regular key use. The second the assassin shows up use the first 1.5s you are stunned to hit enter twice to send the call. You don't have to win the 1v1 you just have to hold long enough for help. Thank you for your detailed answer Domatron. I will try out this tactic as soon as i can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodneyMcNeely Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 It's going to be a tough fight to beat any assassin worth their salt in a 1v1, they win all the tourneys for a reason. So, where do Darkness Assassins fall on this spectrum? I believe Grezecka (the second-place winner from Bastion's tourney) was specced Darkness. And would a tank-specced assassin be required to wear DPS gear to be a decent 1v1 contender? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragost Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 So, where do Darkness Assassins fall on this spectrum? I believe Grezecka (the second-place winner from Bastion's tourney) was specced Darkness. And would a tank-specced assassin be required to wear DPS gear to be a decent 1v1 contender? Thanks! Darkness assasins are a completely different fight, I don't play jug so can't say it too well, but the main things that bugger them up are breaking the lightening(It's uninterruptable, so some form of CC is needed). Especially watch for the recklessness lightning, a full crit lightning with 3stacks can tick for 3K+, as well as healing the assasin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xIphonex Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Defeating a deception sin is more about surviving the initial burst than anything else. Don't let him get you under 30% health. Don't blow your cc break early. Being a guardian, you won't beat a good sin regardless of how good you are. Your goal is to stall him until you get reinforced. You can kill plenty of bad sins, but one that knows how to use his dcds and how to hold his late spikes til after you burn yours will beat you. When i see a soresu/shien hybrid guard or jugg, i get my spikes in then kite while his resist buffs wear down. You should space out those buffs a lot after the initial burst, too many guards panic and blow them all quick and i just disappear then spike him again while they are all cooling down. I don't worry too much about guards on my sin. A good PT/VG is harder to kill, i think. are you kidding me. clearly you have never seen plastic-cup duel the worlds finest sins. he wrecks them and hes a jugg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikGW Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Darkness assasins are a completely different fight, I don't play jug so can't say it too well, but the main things that bugger them up are breaking the lightening(It's uninterruptable, so some form of CC is needed). Especially watch for the recklessness lightning, a full crit lightning with 3stacks can tick for 3K+, as well as healing the assasin. This is true... but when i am playing darkness and somebody breaks my lightning i just wither > shock > discharge > thrash > maul. A darkness assassin is kind of a persistent self healing wall that can outlast most opponents (deception sins included) and still do the most damage of the "pure" tank trees. A hybrid jugg or pt tank can do better damage, but they are a hybrid then and cant take a beating as well. darkness sin can't really be effective as a hybrid because of the importance of wither so they are the least tanky pure tank but also do more damage than the other pure tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP_Legatus Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 (edited) i guess it really depends on which class he/she is fighting. it wont work against any good player who plays a class which has placed AoE like death field or sweeping blasters. I think its impossible against sorc, other assassins, snipers, mercenaries, rolling operatives... but which classes are mostly guarding nodes? operatives, assassins, powertechs, sorcs, at least this is what i see in my games. but i think the pull/phase walk trick can work against almost any class (perhaps except sorcs/assassins with death field) The pull/phase walk thing is really only useful for PT's. You can force them to use 2 guards all game (or get the node) by making them break with pull - phase walk - cap. After that they've got 2m on their breaker, which means they need someone else to babysit or lose the node. You can keep that up all game. All the other classes have an answer to pull shenanigans and aren't too worried about it. The typical ninja shenanigans still work on all the non-PT classes though, there's never a moment where the guard is actually 100% safe. Edited September 20, 2013 by JP_Legatus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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