the SUPER but still fairly secret space project! Where's the buzz?!

[MandFlurry]

Simple, these are the words I live by: Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

 

This way you won't be disappointed but prepared, and if things turn out well then you are happy for it.

 

I think people just don't want to get their hopes up only to be crushed... again.

 

Being careful in not wanting to like it too much and also not wanting to hate what little ppl really don't know about could be a good thing. On the other hand, if expectations are to high or to low they could end up kicking themselves in the head.

[The_Grand_Nagus]

As with any type of Expansion, people with either like the playstyle or hate it.

 

This is not true. Just because you may not "like" something does not necessarily mean you HATE it.

Edited September 11, 2013 by The_Grand_Nagus

[annabethchase]

As with any type of Expansion, people with either like the playstyle or hate it. Right now it seems more ppl hate something ppl don't know nothing about.

 

Well, some of us know we don't enjoy flight simulator games. I'll be happy if it's a pvp thing, but if it's "core" gameplay i'll be disgusted as this is an MMORPG, not a flight simulator.

[Hambunctious]

Well, some of us know we don't enjoy flight simulator games. I'll be happy if it's a pvp thing, but if it's "core" gameplay i'll be disgusted as this is an MMORPG, not a flight simulator.

 

Um, what part of mmorpg excludes it from having space combat? I don't see the connection.

[annabethchase]

Um, what part of mmorpg excludes it from having space combat? I don't see the connection.

 

Role playing games are strategic thought based games of planning and applying knowledge traditionally. That's the opposite of twitch gaming which is what I would call a First Person Shooter or a Flight Simulator. Having the title RPG is misleading if it's a game based on twitch skills and has traditionally always been called an Action RPG if it uses the RPG title at all.

 

Said differently, I think you'd lose the over 20 crowd if the core gameplay switched to twitch gaming as most of us would get wrecked by 12 year olds simply based on reaction times. That would be utterly horrible for business as MMO's have traditionally skewed much older than average games.

[Hambunctious]

I'm well over 20, but a space sim does require both thought, and strategy. I can assure you that reaction times for a shooter in space requires much less in reaction time, and actions per minute, than would a RTS game.

 

Anyway, to each their own, and I would look forward to some space sim action.

[LordArtemis]

Firstly here's the trailer for those who havn't seen it.

 

Ok so this teaser trailer for the Super Secret Space Project was revealed at the Seattle cantina event and then posted online on august 31st. Not by bioware's official youtube page or on facebook but rather some other youtuber.

 

The video itself has a measly 30k views. Many of the comments on the video are possitve thou there are still haters of course. But where is the hype behind this? Or should I say why is there no hype about it and why hasn't bioware broadcasted this for the people?

 

Every so often I ask on the fleet when it's jam packed what people think of the SSSP trailer and people have no clue what I'm talkin about and the main overall response I get is like "what trailer!?"

 

Which really baffles me. So many people since launch now been saying they want proper space combat and not a rail shooter. We get a trailer for it and hardly anybody knows about it which is stunning.

 

I dunno, maybe it's cuz it's not officially posted by bioware and publicized yet and it's still in the shadows is the reason behind this which I'm hoping. But more importantly why would Bioware put this out at a cantina event and then not make it mainstream? I'm really confused, I thought a trailer like this would have upwards of hundreds of thousands of views by now.

 

You must have missed the big thread on the forums. 20k replies and growing rapidly. This is a big deal, believe that.

 

Think...that big of a thread based on a peek and some datamined info.

[ImpactHound]

This is not true. Just because you may not "like" something does not necessarily mean you HATE it.

 

That's not what the internet has found, remember when youtube had a 5 star rating system, and people just voted 5 or 0, never gradients inbetween? Now it's just a thumbs up or down.

[swissflamdrag]

I think they are playing it perfectly, good marketing is getting the consumer to talk about it. They are playing hard to get with the info and you guys are begging for it, making it even more desirable.

[CosmicKat]

I think they are playing it perfectly, good marketing is getting the consumer to talk about it. They are playing hard to get with the info and you guys are begging for it, making it even more desirable.

 

They need to start giving concrete details about what it is.

 

Building up hype is one thing. When the speculation starts to get specific though, and there is zero clarification about what it is going to be, they are setting themselves up for a disaster.

[LordArtemis]

I would actually suggest they keep it close to the vest until just before it is ready to hit the PTS. Then they should leave it on PTS for a while and make changes based on feedback, no matter how long it might take ti implement those changes.

 

Just my slant. This is a bid deal IMO, and it needs to be a big deal when it hits live.

[CosmicKat]

I would actually suggest they keep it close to the vest until just before it is ready to hit the PTS. Then they should leave it on PTS for a while and make changes based on feedback, no matter how long it might take ti implement those changes.

 

Just my slant. This is a bid deal IMO, and it needs to be a big deal when it hits live.

 

I'd agree on the details end of things but they really should let people know generally what it is going to be.

 

Is it a super charged version of what we already have? A simulator like X-Wing vs TIE. A semi-sim like Wing Commander? A free space combat/exploration game like Elite? Something entirely different?

 

With no details, speculation will get ridiculous and the longer the speculation goes, the more they set themselves up for backlash, IMO.

[Nethgilne]

Role playing games are strategic thought based games of planning and applying knowledge traditionally.

 

This maybe the case for old school, single player RPG's. But playing SWTOR is pretty taxing on my reflexes and required a fair amount of on the feet thinking. This applies for both PVE and PVP. I would actually consider SWTOR more of an action RPG than a cerebral / tactical one.

 

But I don't entirely disagree with your sentiment, however. It looks like the SSSP is shaping up to fill a niche that is radically different from what one would consider a traditional MMORPG, and it would hurt all of our collective minds to continue trying to shoehorn SSSP into that classification.

 

Judging by what's been data mined so far, I'd say that the SSSP is going to play very much like the mouse controlled "light sim games" coming out now, like War thunder and World of planes. But in space. With lasers, and RPG "elements". I, for one, like this idea, but I know it's not for everyone and it's certainly stepping away from what anyone would consider an RPG.

 

As for OP's original question of when Bioware intends to start marketing the SSSP, My best guess is that we'll hear something more conclusive after 2.4 rolls out and they lay out their plans for the next season as they did with the "summer of SWTOR" series of communications. I was very surprised they'd drop the teaser trailer already, let along all the data in the PTS.

[CosmicKat]

This maybe the case for old school, single player RPG's. But playing SWTOR is pretty taxing on my reflexes and required a fair amount of on the feet thinking. This applies for both PVE and PVP. I would actually consider SWTOR more of an action RPG than a cerebral / tactical one.

 

....

 

That's one of the major issues holding MMO's back nowadays. They look like RPG's, and they have the mechanics of RPG's, but they play more like shooters. They are too twitch for RPG fans, and too complicated for shooter fans. They are trying to please too many different groups of fans and failing to satisfy either.

 

Strategy and tactical thinking are possible in an action-oriented game, but only if the AI is good and utilizes things like terrain and LOS, which TOR does not.

[Nethgilne]

They are too twitch for RPG fans, and too complicated for shooter fans. They are trying to please too many different groups of fans and failing to satisfy either.

 

Agreed. I've started to recognized the wisdom of PvP warzone gameplay that is substantially differentiated from the PvE game. I envision a PvP that is a little more twitch based, requiring some degree of cross hair aiming and a restriction to how many abilities a player can bring to a fight. Most importantly, gear and ability stats can be divorced from their PvE counter parts and balanced appropriately.

 

I'm sure many would disagree about the details, but my ultimate point is this:

 

If Bioware can make a parallel space game with an entirely different mechanic and a progression tree divorced from the "on-ground" PvE aspects, whats to stop them from doing the same for PVP?

[LordArtemis]

I don't know CosmicKat, in this case I still think this is SO important they really need to keep pretty quiet until PTS release.

 

They can leave it up on PTS for a LONG time to take care of problems and make changes based on feedback. The backlash would actually be pretty important if they were smart enough, IMO, to go with a long testing cycle.

[Hambunctious]

A game's mechanics doesn't make something a role playing game, the story does.

 

XvT, and XWA were just as much a RPG, IMO.

 

What has changed from the old console RPG days is the ability to play with others, the removal of movement limits/turn based combat to real time interactions. Even the old style single player PC RPG games had turn based combat, movement limits, and click to move. By movement limits, I mean when you could only move like 10 squares per turn.

 

All of that is gone, because technology has improved, and things don't have to be so simplistic. It's all more action oriented now, to one degree, or another. They're closer to action/adventure with RPG elements.

 

What defines a RPG for me today is the story, and immersion. The mechanics are not included in my definition any longer. I have a problem immersing myself into a Star Wars setting if there's no free space combat.

 

I also have a problem with immersion when my character is tied to the ground when there should be vehicles that would allow me to fly over obstacles, but that's another story.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Hambunctious

[CosmicKat]

A game's mechanics doesn't make something a role playing game, the story does.

 

XvT, and XWA were just as much a RPG, IMO.

 

What has changed from the old console RPG days is the ability to play with others, the removal of movement limits/turn based combat to real time interactions. Even the old style single player PC RPG games had turn based combat, movement limits, and click to move. By movement limits, I mean when you could only move like 10 squares per turn.

 

All of that is gone, because technology has improved, and things don't have to be so simplistic. It's all more action oriented now, to one degree, or another. They're closer to action/adventure with RPG elements.

 

What defines a RPG for me today is the story, and immersion. The mechanics are not included in my definition any longer. I have a problem immersing myself into a Star Wars setting if there's no free space combat.

 

I also have a problem with immersion when my character is tied to the ground when there should be vehicles that would allow me to fly over obstacles, but that's another story.

 

To me, a canned story featuring canned characters is not an RPG, it's an interactive movie.

 

I think the best example of the difference between a "traditional" RPG and an "console" RPG recently is Fallout 3 and New Vegas. F3 is a pure adventure game where you play through a canned, linear story as a canned, pre-designed character. NV is an open-ended RPG where you can be anything you want and influence the world in many different ways. F3 has the more coherent story because it's entirely scripted, NV is the much better RPG because it's not scripted to nearly the same degree. I'll sacrifice that story to make (or imagine) my own any day.

 

That's my only beef with the stories in TOR. They are well done, sometimes great, with great cinematics and voice acting but I just feel like I'm watching a movie, not part of a story.

[Nethgilne]

A game's mechanics doesn't make something a role playing game, the story does.

 

Oh man I hate to turn this into a "what makes a rpg" thread, but I'd have to (partially) agree to this. I'm not saying that mechanics dictate an RPG, but I don't agree that story is the only thing you need either. Unfortunately its one of those questions that if you've asked 100 gamers you'll get 1001 answers.

 

Personally, I think the SSSP still fits under role-playing because 1) you effectively do play a "role" with the different variety of star craft 2) It's not verified, but it seems that you can lvl up and further customize that ships abilities 3) it's YOUR character that flies the ship, one who's story the player has direct control over and interacts in other aspects of the universe

[Primarch_PWnD]

I think part of their problem in the past has been that they don't tell us anything until it's already final and put on the PTS. There's no room for any sort of feedback from the gamers that way, and we wind up with half-baked ideas like the dye-system.

 

I know it's a tricky line for them to walk, but the disappointment has come from more than just the forums here; game review sites and magazines haven't been kind.

 

Maybe being a little less "super secret" about things wouldn't be such a bad thing. Getting input from the community as ideas are being fleshed out would help avoid disasters in the fundamentals of ideas.....like the dye-system.

 

Look at how they did the new race addition; they had a poll on the forums. THAT'S good stuff, and a good example of how just a little question asked 1-year ahead of time can help things tremendously.

[GlockMeister]

Signed

GlockMeister

[The_Grand_Nagus]

I would actually suggest they keep it close to the vest until just before it is ready to hit the PTS. Then they should leave it on PTS for a while and make changes based on feedback, no matter how long it might take ti implement those changes.

 

Just my slant. This is a bid deal IMO, and it needs to be a big deal when it hits live.

 

The problem is, by the time something is on PTS, it is really hard to make significant changes to how it actually works from a game mechanics perspective. Sure they can fix bugs and change stats based on feedback, but when it comes to actual mechanics, that needs to be done in the development phase. And that is why they need to share their plans with us now, so we can say whether we like the mechanics they are designing.

[TUXs]

Look at how they did the new race addition; they had a poll on the forums. THAT'S good stuff, and a good example of how just a little question asked 1-year ahead of time can help things tremendously.

Ummm...did Cathar even appear on that poll? They certainly didn't win it if they did...

[chuixupu]

Actually, they did.

[ImperialSun]

Ummm...did Cathar even appear on that poll? They certainly didn't win it if they did...

 

I'm pretty sure Cathar were THE number 1 choice....

 

Of course somebody will claim its all lies on BWs part...they almost certainly rigged the poll and forced Cathar on the community just to slap us in the face

 

Driz