Who's disappointed by the RotHC being offered for free/refunded to new buyers?

[Supeben]

Personally I don't really care about the $10 that I paid for the expansion when it came out. What I do care about (kinda) is the fact that over and over again Bioware is showing that I has no regard for it's loyal players. Let's do a little math here.... I've been a subscriber since the game launched at $15.00/month after paying $60.00 for the game itself. Also I have purchased about $200 in cartel coins over the course of the game, so...

$60.00 Game itself

$10.00 RotHC

$300.00 Subscription fees

$200.00 Cartel Coins

$570.00 Total

Now I must say that I have spent this money because I enjoy the game. Bioware though has began pretty much giving everything away to new players and has not even made good on their "subscriber appreciation" stuff they pretended was going to be sooooo great. It is becoming abundantly clear that loyalty is a foreign concept to EA/Bioware Sure the $4.00 in free cartel coins were something, but there is a point where they just start to look like they do not care. When does Wildstar come out again?

Edited September 11, 2013 by Supeben

[AbsolutGrndZero]

Ok, so it's a REFUND (even though the wording on the announcment relays the idea that it's a reward by saying in APPRECIATION FOR which screams REWARD to most). Why do only a select few get refunded?

 

It's not about the money for us Subs. It's the principle of the matter. Yes I've had "early access" etc. But someone who subscribes in the last 30 days gets a REFUND for the Expansion? TECHNICALLY they had early access as well. They had the same opportunities in that 30 days that I've had since it's release; gear drops, levelling, experiencing the content, etc. Just not as long. This whole deal slaps us Subs in the face.

 

I don't know if you are or are not a sub. Don't care. It's your money, not mine. But if you are a sub and you get a refund in this situation so should everyone else. BW/EA wants to promote as much equality between the F2P/Prem/Sub groups as they can yet they are throwing a huge divider up. SWG did the same thing. Look at the subscriber rates after they did all that; they dropped drastically.

 

If this whole thing "isn't such a big deal" then give ALL subs the CC. A title that won't be used (I have at least 75% of the titles in the game and most of them I never use) is like all those game companies refunded people who bought a game in the last 30 days in full and giving those who bought the game when it first came out, a little 8x10 poster of the game.

 

Would you be less pissed if they had said...

 

"Due to being legally required to do refunds for anyone who purchased the expansion in the last 30 days if they ask for one, we would like to keep your money, so we will give you 1050 cartel coins if you let us keep your money?" because that's the real reason... but that doesn't sound as good as saying "Appreciation" and not mentioning it as a refund. For those of you who see it as a refund, congratulations you are smarter than the average person. Those who are getting cartel coins CAN still get an actual refund, they just have to give up the cartel coins. Those of us that bought it long prior, as others have said, we've had it to play, plus on top of that, they aren't legally required to give us a refund like they are those who bought it in the last 30 days.

 

Remember, they are a business.

[DarthObelisk]

Bioware/EA has set themselves up for one of two things.

 

1) Having to give the free coins to all subscribers.

Treating long terms subscribers as second class citizens is not the way to retain subs. They have a track record of not really caring about subs, and this is just adding to that rep.

 

2) Losing a lot of sales on the next expansion.

If the coins being offered to recent purchasers of the expansion are not given to all who have already purchased it, then I will not purchase the next expansion, but wait for it to go free. I still have 4 character slots, and I can start another alt and wait for the expansion to go free.

 

I like the game. I wish that they cared as much about the subscribers as they do about the CM.

 

i think you have nailed it right there

[AbsolutGrndZero]

i think you have nailed it right there

 

Not really, unless you are cool with waiting six months for the expansion. I pre-ordered the expansion. I'm not all butt hurt because I'm not getting 1050 cartel coins. I understand how and why this is being done the way it is. Feel free to call me a fanboy or a cheerleader for understanding how things work. I'm used to it by now.

[objectofhatred]

honestly i think everyone should get free cartel coins that bought the expac , reason being it costs them NO real money to do this , all the people are happy ect ect

it would really suck if you bought the expac 1 day before the cut off line to get the cartell coins ,

i mean with how low this games population is can you afford to piss off the people paying your salary?

[Spamfritter]

BioWare was asked about providing additional value to subscribers at the Cantina Tour in Dallas. They had said that they recognized the need to do it but weren't sure how. It seems that this has yet to change as BioWare is totally in the dark about this. I'm not "hurt" by them giving more stuff to the free to play crowd but at the same time BioWare is giving us fewer and fewer reasons to keep subscribing with all that preferred status players get now.

[MajikMyst]

I would love the cartel coins/refund.. I think it is kind of lame they are not giving that to all who bought it.. I could really care less about a title.. This game has to many titles as it is.. Heck, I don't even know what I did to earn most of them..

 

Coins please.. I pre-ordered ROTHC in Dec. of last year.. I have been a loyal subscriber since launch..

Edited September 11, 2013 by MajikMyst

[amaresch]

I would love the cartel coins/refund.. I think it is kind of lame they are not giving that to all who bought it.. I could really care less about a title.. This game has to many titles as it is.. Heck, I don't even know what I did to earn most of them..

 

Coins please.. I pre-ordered ROTHC in Dec. of last year.. I have been a loyal subscriber since launch..

 

Agreed. I'm sure i'm not the only one who doesn't feel yet another title is worth more than the CCs.

Edited September 12, 2013 by amaresch

[Scionfall]

Pretty good discussion on this! I agree with poster that said it was the principal of the matter - that we're getting a crap title (and not even us even if the people that bought the game in the last 30 days are getting the title so really people who bought it previously are still not getting anything exclusive that anyone else would be getting). Titles are set it and forget it sort of thing - no one pays attention and no one really cares (Just like EA/BW!). Sure it's a "refund" but again what about the rest of us "so sorry you paid for it when less than a month later we made it free here's you money back!" is what they're saying. What's so hard about saying "hey sorry all of you loyal subscribers paid money for this when we're now giving it away for free here's $10 worth of CC's." For the one who created a more honest statement over the one they crafted to be perfectly honest I'd rather they put out one like yours. Being legally obligated to offer the refund would at least be a legit excuse to them offering it. Offering it because they appreciate so much those that gave them $15 dollars instead of the approx. $500 as another posted had tallied is a bit backwards.

 

As for the "all game depreciate in time" yes this is true and I'm fine with that. But MMO's operate a bit differently. Sure the expansion may go down in price But they're not being given $10 worth of game credits at the same time due to being a new customer. What EA/BW is saying is the players that just started are more important than the ones who have been playing this whole time. My "reward" may have been to play for 5 months before them but EA's reward was hundreds of dollars worth of business that I gave them during that same time.

 

As for those typical posters who say all people like me do is whine a part of the reason why EA/BW puts these forums up is for its players to voice their opinions - their likes and their dislikes and when there's something wrong we all have a right to tell them how we feel.

[DarthVengeant]

Signed.

 

And I have now unsubed. This was the last straw for me. It has been buildling for awhile and this took me over the edge. I wont tolerate anything more from Bioware any longer. They can't do ANYTHING right and continually spit in the face of subscribers.

 

I am going back to Guild Wars 2 where they have QUALITY CONTENT, constant IN GAME EVENTS, and fantastic service. I will also add, they do all that with NO MONTHLY FEE. So, I fail to see how Bioware can't offer that WITH a monthly fee. I have had enough of Bioware's crap. I wont even bother with DA3 either.

Edited September 12, 2013 by DarthVengeant

[Joeneren]

Yeah, bought the expansion a week before "refund" was to be applied... Son of a......

If i cared at all about titles i might have been happy, but alas

[Giantewok]

I am EXTREMELY dissatisfied with BIOWARE for this decision to give new buyers of the expansion 1050 CC, I bought the expansion at the end of July (2 weeks before the start period for coins) and it reminds me of the crap decisions Blizzard made all the time - the solution is simple, all those who have bought the expansion by TODAY get the 1050 CC bonus IF:

 

They are an active subscriber!

 

Bioware, you obviously want people to pay for your game as in my view, F2P is unplayable (if I couldn't afford the sub I would leave immediately, the 'gap' is too great) but kicking your customers in the teeth like this is not the way forward, i've read a lot of posters and most (including me) are not happy and seriously disagree with the idiot that came up with the idea!

 

Will you listen?

Will you take our concerns on board?

Will you keep your customers happy? - I doubt it

 

Prove me wrong Bioware or does only money motivate you? Are you as greedy as Blizzard? If so you know where you can stick your game!!!

 

I expect an announcement stating ALL subbers who have bought the expansion will receive the same or more coins than what your current offer is giving and will supercede it!

[NerateMireth]

Would you be less pissed if they had said...

 

"Due to being legally required to do refunds for anyone who purchased the expansion in the last 30 days if they ask for one, we would like to keep your money, so we will give you 1050 cartel coins if you let us keep your money?" because that's the real reason... but that doesn't sound as good as saying "Appreciation" and not mentioning it as a refund. For those of you who see it as a refund, congratulations you are smarter than the average person. Those who are getting cartel coins CAN still get an actual refund, they just have to give up the cartel coins. Those of us that bought it long prior, as others have said, we've had it to play, plus on top of that, they aren't legally required to give us a refund like they are those who bought it in the last 30 days.

 

Remember, they are a business.

 

Actually, here is the original statement:

Beginning September 12, 2013, active Subscribers will receive the first Digital Expansion: Rise of the Hutt Cartel free of charge as a newly added benefit to the Subscriber Rewards Program! Rise of the Hutt Cartel offers the breathtaking planet of Makeb, five new levels of story-driven missions increasing the level cap to 55, and exciting technology devices which unlock valuable rewards.

 

Additionally, players who have already purchased Rise of the Hutt Cartel and are an active Subscriber on September 12 at 4:00AM PDT / 11:00AM GMT will receive a new title, “The Risen,” via in-game mail on or before September 25, 2013 as our appreciation for the purchase.

 

Finally, Subscribers who purchase Rise of the Hutt Cartel between August 11, 2013 and September 12, 2013 at 9:00AM PDT / 4:00PM GMT will be granted 1050 Bonus Cartel Coins in appreciation for their recent purchase of Rise of the Hutt Cartel. The 1050 Bonus Cartel Coins will be granted by September 13, 2013 at 9:00AM PDT / 4:00PM GMT.

 

Had they changed the wording to read as such, I think hardly anyone would have an issue, at least not as many as do now:

 

Beginning September 12, 2013, active Subscribers will receive the first Digital Expansion: Rise of the Hutt Cartel free of charge as a newly added benefit to the Subscriber Rewards Program! Rise of the Hutt Cartel offers the breathtaking planet of Makeb, five new levels of story-driven missions increasing the level cap to 55, and exciting technology devices which unlock valuable rewards.

 

Additionally, players who have already purchased Rise of the Hutt Cartel and are an active Subscriber on September 12 at 4:00AM PDT / 11:00AM GMT will receive a new title, “The Risen,” via in-game mail on or before September 25, 2013 as our appreciation for the purchase.

 

Finally, Subscribers who purchase Rise of the Hutt Cartel between August 11, 2013 and September 12, 2013 at 9:00AM PDT / 4:00PM GMT will be granted 1050 Bonus Cartel Coins as a refund due to legal requirements for their recent purchase of Rise of the Hutt Cartel. The 1050 Bonus Cartel Coins will be granted by September 13, 2013 at 9:00AM PDT / 4:00PM GMT.

 

Simply wording it as such would have negated a LOT of these posts. Furthermore, had they announced ORGINALLY when RotHC went live that somewhere in the next 6-12 months it would become free to subscribers then the "refund" portion of the announcement would never have been needed.

 

My suggestion to BW/EA is that for the next expansion, put a disclaimer in the release notes stating that somewhere in the next 6-12 months said expansion will become free to subscribers.

Edited September 12, 2013 by NerateMireth

[Giantewok]

It's quite frankly a piss take, it wouldn't satisfy me if they worded it differently, it's a bad decision they have made, as well as:

 

the idiots who intervene in quests when you are attempting to have fun,

the lag,

not being allowed to mod (like healbot),

the uselessness of the collectors edition (you can buy it all separately),

pathetic customer service,

levelling is a chore, repetative and boring

 

Need I go on? Bioware is "doing a Blizzard" - as long as they don't screw characters up....

[Amaterasustee]

BW, im done, nice knowing you Swtor, im U subbing and you can say good bye to my £250 a year

[AlaricSevGirl]

Signed.

 

And I have now unsubed. This was the last straw for me. It has been buildling for awhile and this took me over the edge. I wont tolerate anything more from Bioware any longer. They can't do ANYTHING right and continually spit in the face of subscribers.

 

I am going back to Guild Wars 2 where they have QUALITY CONTENT, constant IN GAME EVENTS, and fantastic service. I will also add, they do all that with NO MONTHLY FEE. So, I fail to see how Bioware can't offer that WITH a monthly fee. I have had enough of Bioware's crap. I wont even bother with DA3 either.

 

You are absolutely right. BW can do it. They don't want to do it. Simple enough. If they wanted to, they could say, "we're reimbursing the price of the xpac to those who just bought it, let's give our loyal subbers a new pet or a new speeder". Instead, they say, "hell what's that title we had lying around, let's toss that out there like a bone to all the dogs".

[Andryah]

Signed.

 

And I have now unsubed. This was the last straw for me. It has been buildling for awhile and this took me over the edge. I wont tolerate anything more from Bioware any longer. They can't do ANYTHING right and continually spit in the face of subscribers.

 

You picked and incredibly weak "straw" to stand on IMO. There are many reasons why an MMO does not meet the value a customer desires.. but this is not one of them.

 

I am going back to Guild Wars 2 where they have QUALITY CONTENT, constant IN GAME EVENTS, and fantastic service. I will also add, they do all that with NO MONTHLY FEE.

 

Interesting line in the sand you draw there. Why? Because SWTOR also provides quality content, in game events, and can be played for free.

 

Personally... I play SWTOR and GW2 and TSW. You might try it... since it is entirely something you can do if you choose.. even at the non-sub level.

[DarthTHC]

You are absolutely right. BW can do it. They don't want to do it. Simple enough. If they wanted to, they could say, "we're reimbursing the price of the xpac to those who just bought it, let's give our loyal subbers a new pet or a new speeder". Instead, they say, "hell what's that title we had lying around, let's toss that out there like a bone to all the dogs".

 

You got taken in by the marketing-speak, didn't you?

 

You do realize that the only reason they're giving 1,050 worth of in-store credit to purchasers within the 30 day window is to dissuade them from requesting a refund, right? It has nothing to do with "appreciation"... or maybe EA is showing that it "appreciates" them not asking for a cash refund?

[objectofhatred]

Are you as greedy as Blizzard?

i disagree with blizzard being greedy, wow costs 15 bucks a month and thats all u have to spend to have to everything..the problem with blizzard and warcraft is the game has gotten stale, not that people that play it think there greedy, now Lord of the Rings online i would say that about, you have to spend alot of money on that "free to play" game to end game raid

[BaronV]

This thing is OP, just after the RotHC was announced as paid, there would have been threads that go along the lines of:

"Who's disappointed by the RotHC being paid-only for longtime subscribers?"

 

or

 

"Who's disappointed by the RotHC charging for things announced prior to F2P?"

 

or the likes....

[XantosCledwin]

So let me get this straight:

 

A. You're giving the expansion which was previously stated that was so big you needed to charge money for it for free to new subs.

 

B. Anyone who purchased it in the past month will be effectively refunded for their purchase via Cartel Coins

 

C. Loyal subscribers for the past 6 months are given a title and no free cartel coins.

 

The problem that your going to encounter I think, is that prior to the last month they may not have sufficient records (especially going back 6 months ago) to tell who purchased the expansion as a subscriber vs. who purchased the expansion as a free to play or preferred individual. That will ruin the whole situation.

 

I don't know how complete their records are, but I doubt they can trace everything that far back. Especially if you have been making purchases between then and now as well. If they had a life time subscription option like Star Trek Online has, then that might be a different matter entirely, but since they don't then they really can't do it the way you seem to want them to be able to do it.

 

Plus in reality what you did was pay 10 dollars to get to access the expansion 6 months earlier than when it ultimately would be going Free Access for all subscribers. Please note that the Expansion will still cost money for Free Players. Which means you are essentially getting 6 months of early access, plus those who subscribe now or within the last month are getting access to content that free to play players have to pay for access to. It's really not that rough of a deal.

 

Also I could be wrong, but that Title that you got when you bought your early access... I don't believe that is still being offered anymore, or am I incorrect about how the early access perks worked?

 

Additionally, players who have already purchased Rise of the Hutt Cartel and are an active Subscriber on September 12 at 4:00AM PDT / 11:00AM GMT will receive a new title, “The Risen,” via in-game mail on or before September 25, 2013 as our appreciation for the purchase.

 

Finally, Subscribers who purchase Rise of the Hutt Cartel between August 11, 2013 and September 12, 2013 at 9:00AM PDT / 4:00PM GMT will be granted 1050 Bonus Cartel Coins in appreciation for their recent purchase of Rise of the Hutt Cartel.

 

So if I am reading that right, players have to have ALREADY purchased Rise of the Hutt Cartel by September 12th and be Subscribers no later than September 25th in order to qualify for "The Risen" Title. Which means everyone who is currently a subscriber and who purchased the Hutt Cartel 6 months ago should qualify for said title.

 

The second one not so much. But at least we all get spiffy titles out of it. That said,

 

1050 Cartel Coins

-250 Cartel Coins (rough price of Complimentary Pet based on pre-existing pet in the Cartel Market)

-690 Cartel Coins (probably under priced value of Complimentary Holo Trainer)

-100 Cartel Coins (probably under priced value of Complimentary Basic Commendations)

-10 Cartel Coins (estimated value on Complimentary Title based on Revan's Heir Title)

 

Total remaining Cartel Coins = 0

 

Basically all the perks you are receiving for having had early access to the Rise of the Hutt Cartel or for Pre-Ordering it, equal or exceed the value of the Cartel Coins that are being given out to the people who are getting the Hutt Cartel now. Not to mention that they still don't get the free Holo-Trainer like you do. They would have to go find a Satelle Shan or Darth Malgus Holo Trainer, now wouldn't they. And those aren't cheap.

[DarthTHC]

The problem that your going to encounter I think, is that prior to the last month they may not have sufficient records (especially going back 6 months ago) to tell who purchased the expansion as a subscriber vs. who purchased the expansion as a free to play or preferred individual. That will ruin the whole situation.

 

I don't know how complete their records are, but I doubt they can trace everything that far back. Especially if you have been making purchases between then and now as well. If they had a life time subscription option like Star Trek Online has, then that might be a different matter entirely, but since they don't then they really can't do it the way you seem to want them to be able to do it.

 

Plus in reality what you did was pay 10 dollars to get to access the expansion 6 months earlier than when it ultimately would be going Free Access for all subscribers. Please note that the Expansion will still cost money for Free Players. Which means you are essentially getting 6 months of early access, plus those who subscribe now or within the last month are getting access to content that free to play players have to pay for access to. It's really not that rough of a deal.

 

Also I could be wrong, but that Title that you got when you bought your early access... I don't believe that is still being offered anymore, or am I incorrect about how the early access perks worked?

 

 

 

So if I am reading that right, players have to have ALREADY purchased Rise of the Hutt Cartel by September 12th and be Subscribers no later than September 25th in order to qualify for "The Risen" Title. Which means everyone who is currently a subscriber and who purchased the Hutt Cartel 6 months ago should qualify for said title.

 

The second one not so much. But at least we all get spiffy titles out of it. That said,

 

1050 Cartel Coins

-250 Cartel Coins (rough price of Complimentary Pet based on pre-existing pet in the Cartel Market)

-690 Cartel Coins (probably under priced value of Complimentary Holo Trainer)

-100 Cartel Coins (probably under priced value of Complimentary Basic Commendations)

-10 Cartel Coins (estimated value on Complimentary Title based on Revan's Heir Title)

 

Total remaining Cartel Coins = 0

 

Basically all the perks you are receiving for having had early access to the Rise of the Hutt Cartel or for Pre-Ordering it, equal or exceed the value of the Cartel Coins that are being given out to the people who are getting the Hutt Cartel now. Not to mention that they still don't get the free Holo-Trainer like you do. They would have to go find a Satelle Shan or Darth Malgus Holo Trainer, now wouldn't they. And those aren't cheap.

 

You're overthinking it.

 

They are giving purchasers within the 30 day window the 1,050 cartel coins in order to dissuade them from requesting a full refund of the purchase price, which they are due according to consumer protection laws in many regions in which SWTOR operates.

 

They are not giving the same consideration to purchasers outside the 30 day window because they do not have the same right to a cash refund.

 

Ignore the marketing-speak. It's not really an appreciation reward.

Edited September 12, 2013 by DarthTHC

[Tureth]

Because you bought it before, instead of getting 1000 cartel coins, you got several months of access to that content. If you preordered it, then instead of 10000 coins, you got access to that content, a title, a pet, and a training statue.

 

Why should you get coins when you've had the content play with this whole time? The coins are just a little "Hey guys, I know this is short notice so here, now you don't have to feel like you wasted your money."

 

You. I like you.

[TUXs]

The expansion went F2P almost as fast as the game did

[LordArtemis]

It would be bad business practice if every MMO gave a refund to players that purchased the expansion at full price the moment an expansion was discounted in price.

 

They had to have a cutoff at some point, and I think 30 days works. I'm a bit bummed I purchased it before that window, but that is the extent for me.

 

The good news, for me, is now my friends can get the expac for free.

 

I do concede, however, that they still have not provided the second sub appreciation item they indicated was on it's way back a few months ago, and it would be good to see something for that soon.