Challenge for Eric Musco

[wollegol]

Hey dscount,

 

I can completely appreciate the request, it is just not something that we would do. Internally, it isn't like we have a meeting once a week to discuss things like this where I can come out of the meeting and provide an update. Part of it is that even if changes were to come for Sorcerers/Sages, they would not be coming for some time. As we have stated we are not really planning any big balance changes coming in to 2.4.

What I can say is that I will provide you all with updates as I have them. It just wouldn't be logical that every week I came on the forums and said "still no updates, check back next week!" I know it can be hard sometimes but I assure you that things like this don't fall off my radar and I am always eager to deliver you all updates as I have them.

 

As an example, I can assure you Assassins and Shadows have not been forgotten, I just don't have any new updates. We are still actively having discussions about all classes and their balance but I wont pass that on until we have things locked down and more concrete.

 

-eric

 

Why are you not planning this, can we get your thoughts around this? Since PVP has been unbalanced since the release of SWTOR, why should we paying customers have to wait many more months for this? The PVP community in this game is big, just look at how many threads that are started here on the forums. The pvp section has 6x the the threads of flashpoints and operations and the largest section, general discussion, only has twice the threads.

 

So, Eric, I am challenging you. Tell me why I, as a PVP:er by heart, should pay you for another 2-4 months before you do something that should have been done last year. And I don't want the answer that WZ will be under F2P in 2.4 because I don't want to play with the restrictions that come with it.

[helpmewin]

/agree

[maverickmatt]

Eric Musco is a mouthpiece for the Devs. They lack the... genital fortitude.. to come speak with us (which is silly.. they only have a job because we play the game). The standby line, "We are the professionals" went out the window a LONG time ago. Professionals would not be satisfied with this type of quality. It's all very amateurish to be frank, and one would have to assume that they also lack the knowledge to fix the issues we have or balance classes (which is evidenced by the fact that they have done neither).

 

This game is pretty.. but someone told me once (and I've read it many times in several places) "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, Baffle them with BS"..

 

Graphical Upgrades are BS. There is no brilliance to be found here.

 

Maybe we should all buy stock and attend a stockholder's meeting over at EA.. At least then they would treat us as investors/customers, and not just some second-rate gamers (even though they freely admit that we bested them at their own game).

[valeita]

Problem is that the actual devs don't read the forum. Musco is NOT a developer.

[wollegol]

Well, if Eric is just a mouthpiece for the devs, then he can ask them my question. Why should I continue to give you my money when, and even the devs have admitted this: 1. PVP is unbalanced and 2. The devs have neglected PVP since release and you clearly doesn't have a solution in the near future.

 

Can you just answer this simple question?

 

And also, I don't want to hear that I should continue paying because 4 v 4 is coming in 2.4. You removed 8 v 8 ranked (in 8 v 8 some classes could actually work, in 4 v 4 you cant have 1 class underperforming the gap becomes to obvious). So basicly you ar making competitive pvp worse then it already is.

Edited August 29, 2013 by wollegol

[Avicii]

The real issue is how does this encourage more people to play arenas? when the preception is you must play one of the FoTM classes to have real success. Outside of the exceptional players that can make any class work which is the top 5-10% most likely.

 

It doesn't and people will quickly figure this out. If they want people to queue and clearly they should without cross server queuing, they need to encourage the non FoTM classes and the only way to do so is to make balance changes. Waiting 1 or 2 patches is not acceptable and the success of arenas depends on the communities preception of them and if it looks like you have to play an OP or Jug tank or a Mara to generally be successful it will turn off the player base killing queue times.

 

This is what is baffling to me and reaks of a poor decision.

[Joesixxpack]

The real issue is how does this encourage more people to play arenas? when the preception is you must play one of the FoTM classes to have real success. Outside of the exceptional players that can make any class work which is the top 5-10% most likely.

 

It doesn't and people will quickly figure this out. If they want people to queue and clearly they should without cross server queuing, they need to encourage the non FoTM classes and the only way to do so is to make balance changes. Waiting 1 or 2 patches is not acceptable and the success of arenas depends on the communities preception of them and if it looks like you have to play an OP or Jug tank or a Mara to generally be successful it will turn off the player base killing queue times.

 

This is what is baffling to me and reaks of a poor decision.

 

You may have a perception problem but I agree with you. I wonder if PVP opening up for F2P is part of the consideration, or if it's just the usual "wait and see" > too drastic too late approach?

[Technohic]

You may have a perception problem but I agree with you. I wonder if PVP opening up for F2P is part of the consideration, or if it's just the usual "wait and see" > too drastic too late approach?

 

LOL They will wind up nerfing the class that most destroys F2Pers. I'm betting on concealment and deception. Stealth is despised by the uninformed.

[Joesixxpack]

LOL They will wind up nerfing the class that most destroys F2Pers. I'm betting on concealment and deception. Stealth is despised by the uninformed.

 

Oh good I just started playing/enjoying my scrapper again. Maker knows they need nerfing anyway.

[Laforet]

Musco is a competent community manager and a gentle human being.

 

His job is to manage the community, i highly doubt he (and Courtney for that matter) have any weight in design decisions.

 

He only sugar coats what the developers say, if the combat team has a terrible response to some player issues, its not his fault.

 

Hes just the fireman, not the firestarter.

 

Even if Musco / Courtney thinks that the so called combat team is incompetent, they would never say it, especially in the forums.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Laforet

[Ottoattack]

Musco is a competent community manager and a gentle human being.

 

His job is to manage the community, i highly doubt he (and Courtney for that matter) have any weight in design decisions.

 

He only sugar coats what the developers say, if the combat team has a terrible response to some player issues, its not his fault.

 

Hes just the fireman, not the firestarter.

 

Even if Musco / Courtney thinks that the so called combat team is incompetent, they would never say it, especially in the forums.

 

Of course they do not, because its not their job. And I think most posters understand that. The problem is when serious questions about PvP or class balance get asked, there are no answers. When was the last time there were any balance changes (aside from insignificant changes like buffing Vengeance movement speed), the balance changes are so far a part. 2.0 was almost 5 month ago. 1.4 was 8 month prior to 2.0.

[wollegol]

Musco is a competent community manager and a gentle human being.

 

His job is to manage the community, i highly doubt he (and Courtney for that matter) have any weight in design decisions.

 

He only sugar coats what the developers say, if the combat team has a terrible response to some player issues, its not his fault.

 

Hes just the fireman, not the firestarter.

 

Even if Musco / Courtney thinks that the so called combat team is incompetent, they would never say it, especially in the forums.

 

As I said, if Eric doesn't have a say in anything and only manage the forums, I am asking him to ask the developers why I should continue giving them my money since they admittedly have neglected PVP and isn't going to make it interesting for 2-4 months. I play operative heals myself, so this isn't a thread about my class being bad, but I like PVP to be diverse. If I am to face only warriors/snipers/op heals I will get bored out of my mind, nor would I think its fun to set up a team with warriors and a op heal and smash everything we face.

 

Eric can give me the developers answer and sugarcoat it as much as he can. But I am convinced I wont get an answer, what is he going to say? Maybe that I have a perception issue, and that ranked PVP will be diverse and competitive and that ranked is "easy to play but hard to master". They neglected PVP since release and they now it.

Edited August 29, 2013 by wollegol

[Huckdabuck]

Why are you not planning this, can we get your thoughts around this? Since PVP has been unbalanced since the release of SWTOR, why should we paying customers have to wait many more months for this? The PVP community in this game is big, just look at how many threads that are started here on the forums. The pvp section has 6x the the threads of flashpoints and operations and the largest section, general discussion, only has twice the threads.

 

So, Eric, I am challenging you. Tell me why I, as a PVP:er by heart, should pay you for another 2-4 months before you do something that should have been done last year. And I don't want the answer that WZ will be under F2P in 2.4 because I don't want to play with the restrictions that come with it.

 

A vocal minority with numerous posts does not equal a "big" community. Honestly anyone with a sub can post to any part of these forums (I see just as many PvE'ers posting in the PvP forums as I do PvP'ers).

 

Maybe just maybe you like the game enough to continue playing it without any preferred/F2P restrictions (you even mentioned that)??? I mean that's a long shot and all but just maybe that's a good enough reason for anyone to play. If you no longer enjoy the game and think that something is game breaking then please do yourself a favor and go preferred or take a break from the game. By all means go enjoy a 12 pack and dinner with that $25 - $50 bucks you've saved....EA/BW won't miss it one bit.

[Huckdabuck]

Eric can give me the developers answer and sugarcoat it as much as he can. But I am convinced I wont get an answer, what is he going to say? Maybe that I have a perception issue, and that ranked PVP will be diverse and competitive and that ranked is "easy to play but hard to master". They neglected PVP since release and they now it.

 

Dude these "new" catch phrases were worn out and over used by Sunday afternoon. Dig deeper!

[jackrunip]

The PVP community in this game is big, just look at how many threads that are started here on the forums. The pvp section has 6x the the threads of flashpoints and operations and the largest section, general discussion, only has twice the threads..

 

Unfortunately I couldn't find the reddit poll results that showed only 10-15% of those polled play pvp exclusively. I think it was somewhere at the 50-60% mark for pve only.

 

There aren't more pvpers...they just happen to QQ the most.

[wollegol]

A vocal minority with numerous posts does not equal a "big" community. Honestly anyone with a sub can post to any part of these forums (I see just as many PvE'ers posting in the PvP forums as I do PvP'ers).

 

Maybe just maybe you like the game enough to continue playing it without any preferred/F2P restrictions (you even mentioned that)??? I mean that's a long shot and all but just maybe that's a good enough reason for anyone to play. If you no longer enjoy the game and think that something is game breaking then please do yourself a favor and go preferred or take a break from the game. By all means go enjoy a 12 pack and dinner with that $25 - $50 bucks you've saved....EA/BW won't miss it one bit.

 

If it only where my 15 bucks that they have lost since release, many of the 1.7 mil they had in the beginning left because of bad decisions from the development team, lack of CS and generally bad business decisions.I know the PVP community is much smaller and I think that is in direct relation to them neglecting PVP in general. What if PVP:ers where as many as the PVE:ers? More money for CS, more content, better maintenance etc. I just want to point out that they are making a mistake, again.

Edited August 29, 2013 by wollegol

[Sowwy]

Unfortunately I couldn't find the reddit poll results that showed only 10-15% of those polled play pvp exclusively. I think it was somewhere at the 50-60% mark for pve only.

 

There aren't more pvpers...they just happen to QQ the most.

 

 

15% pvp exclusively but the total players that actively pvp is nigh 50%. Half of the games population is interested in WZ. Yes, that's a significant number obviously.

 

Furthermore, we can accept imbalance, we cannot accept BW's indifference. Frankly, they almost seem flippant towards it.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Sowwy

[jackrunip]

15% pvp exclusively but the total players that actively pvp is nigh 50%. Half of the games population is interested in WZ. Yes, that's a significant number obviously.

 

That may be true, but I think we can agree that a lot of the people in warzones are bad enough where their opinion shouldn't really count.

 

Furthermore, we can accept imbalance, we cannot accept BW's indifference. Frankly, they almost seem flippant towards it.

 

I agree that the time to fix things or address concerns is disheartening (Look at how long bubble stun was around...they didn't even quick-fix the improper resolve gain. )

I don't think that imbalance is widely accepted though...just look at all those threads calling for smash monkey nerfs, or how many ACs aren't viable for ranked, or how operative healing is OP...etc.

Edited August 29, 2013 by jackrunip

[Sowwy]

That may be true, but I think we can agree that a lot of the people in warzones are bad enough where their opinion shouldn't really count.

 

 

 

I agree that the time to fix things or address concerns is disheartening (Look at how long bubble stun was around...they didn't even quick-fix the improper resolve gain. )

I don't think that imbalance is widely accepted though...just look at all those threads calling for smash monkey nerfs.

 

I meant that imbalances are normal in MMO's and players can accept that reality as part of of territory. Its when the developing team ignores these issues for long periods of time there's a problem. The bubble stun is a great example. Something so game-breaking but easy to repair should have quickly been fixed. That was embarrassing for them. I've long thought that EA could get more out of the game if they replaced a few people.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Sowwy

[SlimsPicken]

Its not Musco's fault...lol

 

The devs have a 2 man combat/pvp team.

 

Theres simply not enough people working on PvP for Pvp to ever be successful.

 

There are many classes/specs that clearly dont get played AT ALL by devs. Therefore, do not get balanced properly, and do not get proper feedback from high skill level players, because high skill level players dont like playing crappy specs.

 

How often do we really see lethality agents, conceal agents, anni maras, AP powertechs, pyro mercs, etc? They are niche builds only played for change of pace, or for good players to tie one arm behind their backs to handicap themselves.

 

When one heal spec outshines all others, when one tank spec outshines all others, and when only half of the dps specs are even viable I can pretty accurately say that the class balance team needs more help.

[DarthOvertone]

Reddit poll results that showed only 10-15% of those polled play pvp exclusively. I think it was somewhere at the 50-60% mark for pve only.

 

Bolded...ROFLMAO!!

[Technohic]

Bolded...ROFLMAO!!

 

Yeah. Not sure how the argument works when you are basically saying there is just a vocal minority on the games forums, and then back it up by people who are on some other forum not associated with the game.

[Exly]

Why are you not planning this, can we get your thoughts around this? Since PVP has been unbalanced since the release of SWTOR, why should we paying customers have to wait many more months for this? The PVP community in this game is big, just look at how many threads that are started here on the forums. The pvp section has 6x the the threads of flashpoints and operations and the largest section, general discussion, only has twice the threads.

 

So, Eric, I am challenging you. Tell me why I, as a PVP:er by heart, should pay you for another 2-4 months before you do something that should have been done last year. And I don't want the answer that WZ will be under F2P in 2.4 because I don't want to play with the restrictions that come with it.

 

Maybe it's because the devs truly believe that PvPers are generally happy, "as long as there is someone to kill". While PvE allways needs new content to clear, so they need to spend almost all of their development time on PvE, and very little time on PvP.

[jackrunip]

Yeah. Not sure how the argument works when you are basically saying there is just a vocal minority on the games forums, and then back it up by people who are on some other forum not associated with the game.

 

I would prefer a genuine Swtor.com poll (perhaps done in-game for those who don't use the website) so we can actually see the percentages. As far as I know that doesn't exist though. So I based my numbers off of a poll that was done a couple weeks ago. (Seemed accurate enough seeing that shadow tank was voted the worst tank/smash and sniper most preferred dps, etc...)

 

Most of the people I know prefer PvE to PvP and don't even use the forums, so my view of things is that there are more PvE players that don't post than the PvP players that flood the forum.

[Keyran-Halcyon]

Why are you not planning this, can we get your thoughts around this? Since PVP has been unbalanced since the release of SWTOR, why should we paying customers have to wait many more months for this? The PVP community in this game is big, just look at how many threads that are started here on the forums. The pvp section has 6x the the threads of flashpoints and operations and the largest section, general discussion, only has twice the threads.

 

So, Eric, I am challenging you. Tell me why I, as a PVP:er by heart, should pay you for another 2-4 months before you do something that should have been done last year. And I don't want the answer that WZ will be under F2P in 2.4 because I don't want to play with the restrictions that come with it.

 

While I agree with you almost completely, I do want to point out two things.

 

First, no game ever in the history of games has ever been balanced. And no game ever will be, not until they manage to code a game that responds to player skill level and automatically adjusts the players damage output to compensate for player skill.

 

Before I mention my second point, I do want to mention that my first point is not a defense of the Devs and this games lack of balance.

 

Secondly, I do think its ridiculous that it takes the devs months to update and adjust class balance. If you look back at all the patch notes, only a few of them have anything to do with class balance. Now I am not saying they shouldn't have done all those patches. What I am saying is those were missed opportunities for the Devs to adjust and tweak class balance.

 

I am not sure if its incompetence on the devs part, or arrogance that they think they can adjust class balance once every 6 months and end up with a balanced game. I personally would rather see class balance addressed in every patch, with updates like increased or decreased this by 1% or 2% or similar small incremental changes. Than one update every 6 months that changes things drastically.