WowWasBetter Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 It's called evolution. All the games you mentioned improved on the design that was implemented in previous games as well. So they are guilty of the same crime you accuse SW:TOR of. But yet they were allowed to thrive with those features with players well aware they were all done before. It's like saying you are less of a human because you took the best from your parents and improved on it. And we know that's not true. The next step is always a greater step in the same struggle that is MMOs. Wow always stole from other MMOs as they came out as well. WAR came out and WOW started to offer the same features in their next expansion that WAR offered as the base of their game play. You have to evolve to survive. Unimaginative gameplay != evolution. Evolution requires change, my statement is that tor isn't changing anything except how the stories are told. What I crave aside from solid and enjoyable play, is innovation. Take rift for example, the rift system is dynamic and really awesome. star trek online has user generated content, full on missions and 3d combat (people get pissy because your ship can't go straight up but w/e). WAR had public questing, WoW had instanced end game content and minimal times where I had to wait for a zone to load, etc etc. Tor's mechanics are old and dull, its story is what compels people to play. This is the first mmo where I've given a damn about the story because its told in a beautiful way, but the mechanics to play out the story are a decade old. Tor won't go free to play in the foreseeable future but it does not deserve the title of wow killer, even though it may get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallenvirtues Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 In the orignal thread, you made a refrence that WoW was good by the TBC because it had a dungeon finder tool. That right there, was your fault. The dungeon finder tool did not exist till late WOTLK, and for that little comment, I realized you are a new age MMO fan, and thus your opinion means very little to us veterans. Thats not true...the LFG tool was introduced in TBC and I remember it vividly because I liked it until it became cross-faction You guys got to remember...Some of these features were left out on purpose, not because they couldn't incorporate them...A lot of their reasoning can be read about straight from them, you just have to open your eyes and read it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraxture Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) Unimaginative gameplay != evolution. Evolution requires change, my statement is that tor isn't changing anything except how the stories are told. What I crave aside from solid and enjoyable play, is innovation. Take rift for example, the rift system is dynamic and really awesome. star trek online has user generated content, full on missions and 3d combat (people get pissy because your ship can't go straight up but w/e). WAR had public questing, WoW had instanced end game content and minimal times where I had to wait for a zone to load, etc etc. Tor's mechanics are old and dull, its story is what compels people to play. This is the first mmo where I've given a damn about the story because its told in a beautiful way, but the mechanics to play out the story are a decade old. Tor won't go free to play in the foreseeable future but it does not deserve the title of wow killer, even though it may get it. I fail to see where I said WOW killer. And the premises of your thread was that it was going to go F2P in 6 Months. But now you say it won't be F2P in the foreseeable future? And Wow did steal from WAR and offered the changes in a patch. It was the buzz all over the WOW and WAR forums at that time. You need to stick to your guns. Otherwise this is just a failed attempt at trolling. Edited December 30, 2011 by Fraxture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuichix Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Yeah GL with that. If Rift is still P2P then SWTOR will not be P@P in 6 months. In fact once they iron everything out I doubt it will ever be P2P. Your beloved WOW had more problems then this at launch, through out BC, and still has issues today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WowWasBetter Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I fail to see where I said WOW killer. And the premises of your thread was that it was going to go F2P in 6 Months. But now you say it won't be F2P in the foreseeable future? And Wow did steal from WAR and offered the changes in a patch. It was the buzz all over the WOW and WAR forums at that time. You need to stick to your guns. Otherwise this is just a failed attempt at trolling. Not my thread hotshot ;P I just hijacked it because it's delusional to compare tor now to wow in 2004. As for the wow killer comment, that's the hype tor was getting pre launch and I do believe that this will be heralded as the beginning of the end for wow, despite the fact that wow has been bleeding subs since cataclysm launched. I'm not saying wow didn't steal from WAR (huge letdown of a game. The IP deserved so much better), in fact wow stealing from war is the nature of the beast, that is evolution. Wow adapted to the environment, I don't think tor has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
its_them Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I dont know how people can compare this game to WOW. Its more like GuildWars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WowWasBetter Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Thats not true...the LFG tool was introduced in TBC and I remember it vividly because I liked it until it became cross-faction You guys got to remember...Some of these features were left out on purpose, not because they couldn't incorporate them...A lot of their reasoning can be read about straight from them, you just have to open your eyes and read it The lfg tool has NEVER been cross faction, it is however cross SERVER. And you are also referencing a failed earlier incarnation of the one that succeeded in wotlk. What you are referring to is going to the meeting stone outside a dungeon and clicking on it to be put in a queue for that dungeon. The wotlk version was part of the ui and would put you in a queue, find 4 other guys and throw you in a random dungeon. The BC version was axed because no one used it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooperrob Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 @ OP If you say jump off a cliff should I jump off a cliff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baizak Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 In the orignal thread, you made a refrence that WoW was good by the TBC because it had a dungeon finder tool. That right there, was your fault. The dungeon finder tool did not exist till late WOTLK, and for that little comment, I realized you are a new age MMO fan, and thus your opinion means very little to us veterans. Yeah, nothing like somebody that started playing MMO's in WOTLK being the authority on MMO's and what they take to succeed. OP, your thread is still referencing the "seven deadly sins". Keep your religion where it belongs, in church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calimwulf Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I don't suppose that the site mods would be willing to close all these threads and then direct them to one single thread? This is getting annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kromzor Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) my point still stands. It did not exist in TBC, and WoW was already at peak popularity. Actually it did. It was those the Dungeon Stones that sat outside instances and could only be used if you were at the physical location. So much for showing us your "veteran" chops. Anyway, this game wont go F2P for at least a year.... theres nothing else to play. Edited December 30, 2011 by Kromzor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerpetualGamer Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Your opinion, while interesting, is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spynnal Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 End game comment on WoW is incorrect. Played from release there. The first 3 months were endless UBRS runs, to get people "keyed" for Molten Core. Then, for 9 months, it was Molten Core, Molten Core, and Molten Core. That's it. One end game raid. BWL didn't arrive until after the summer. So, putting that in perspective, if they offer you 1 end game raid here in the first three months, and follow up with a second before the anniversary, they pretty much matched Vanilla WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baizak Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) Actually it did. It was those the Dungeon Stones that sat outside instances and could only be used if you were at the physical location. So much for showing us your "veteran" chops. Anyway, this game wont go F2P for at least a year.... theres nothing else to play. Meeting stones where not the LFD tool. All they did was port folks already in your group to that stone. You had to have two players already at the stone to summon a player there. It did not aid in finding a group, it just could just be used to get 3 out of 5 of the players already in the group to the dungeon entrance faster. LFD came about later in the WOTLK expansion pack. Edited December 30, 2011 by Baizak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skerry Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 It was added in 3.3; the middle patch for Wrath of the Lich King, not "late WOTLK" And any "veteran" MMO Player sees LFD as what it is — a useful tool for finding groups without resorting to primitive methods of spamming chat, and adding everyone with a Tank Spec to your friends list To be a little clearer, any veteran MMO player sees the CURRENT LFD incarnation as a horrible thing destroying communities and protecting douchebags. A server centric LFD tool however would be okay; and SWTOR has one, it needs a little work though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baizak Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 To be a little clearer, any veteran MMO player sees the CURRENT LFD incarnation as a horrible thing destroying communities and protecting douchebags. OFT. When LFD was implemented the WoW boards exploded with folks complaining about Ninja looters and 3 or 4 man pre-mades booting the odd man out for little to no justification whatsoever. Usually to ensure their buddy got the loot over the rando. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WowWasBetter Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Meeting stones where not the LFD tool. All they did was port folks already in your group to that stone. You had to have two players already at the stone to summon a player there. It did not aid in finding a group, it just could just be used to get 3 out of 5 of the players already in the group to the dungeon entrance faster. LFD came about later in the WOTLK expansion pack. http://www.wowwiki.com/Meeting_Stone research is your friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverdanta Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 MMO gamers coming from WoW expect a complete package and anything less then this, they snub their noes at it. No amount of comparing what WoW had and what it did not have at it's launch will not sate their counter claims "but this is not 2004 ARGHHH". The community as a whole has become spoiled, childish, and any other word you can tack on. If you think this game will end, that is your opinion, kindly move back to whatever game you enjoy. End /rant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keeheen Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Can I list 6 reasons why the OP is wrong or would that be considered harassment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverdanta Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 To be a little clearer, any veteran MMO player sees the CURRENT LFD incarnation as a horrible thing destroying communities and protecting douchebags. A server centric LFD tool however would be okay; and SWTOR has one, it needs a little work though. I would like to see Bioware have a LFG tool that is in-server but caters to Heroic +2, Heroic 4, and Flashpoints. Something that detects what missions you have and your level, maybe even throw in the daily mission to give incentive to using the system as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jederix Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Lol same. This thread is full of laughs though, thats for sure. These threads always are. I would imagine some of them are gone since this post was originally made before the end of the grace period. A few of them are still around. If you don't recognize their names, just look around at some of the other hater posts on the board. You see the same people in them all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riotus Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 This game will never go F2P there are to many diehard Star Wars and Bioware fans like myself that will keep the subs at a level where it wouldnt make sense to go F2P. Stop comparing a game that just came out to one thats been out for 7 years. SWTOR's launch has been 10 times more successfull than wows AND it has 10 times the content that wow did at launch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazooty Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) MMO gamers coming from WoW expect a complete package and anything less then this, they snub their noes at it. No amount of comparing what WoW had and what it did not have at it's launch will not sate their counter claims "but this is not 2004 ARGHHH". The community as a whole has become spoiled, childish, and any other word you can tack on. If you think this game will end, that is your opinion, kindly move back to whatever game you enjoy. End /rant. As it turns out, MMO gamers coming from wow is what will make this game successful or a failure. Bioware is a business and needs money. If you aren't competitive you wont make money, something you fail to realize. Bioware is in direct competition with wow. If you aren't competitive you will die and disappear. I understand your opinion, but your opinion is the exact reason SWTOR could potentially fail, as many many other MMOs have in WoWs wake. You dont ignore the top dog, you try to be as good or better than it. Or you die. We have alreayd so many MMOs fail because they were severely lacking compared to Wow. And apparenlty devs still haven't caught on to just how big a beast they have to contend with. Edited December 30, 2011 by Wazooty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazooty Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 AND it has 10 times the content that wow did at launch. HAHAHAHA. No. not at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exuberant Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 You are not competing with the WoW That launched. You are competing with the WoW now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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