[Sniper Gunslinger Initiative] An opportunity to change Laze Target presents itself

[BKVsDragonCowboy]

well as a sniper wouldn't mind the versatility instead of just snipe so I vote yes, just due to after my intial 2 snipes at beginning I hardly ever go to them again in fights on how I do my rotation to maintain good energy putting out the damage.

[BetaKiller]

Been gone for a while sorry

I want Laze to change but not this change, I think this is way too simple and idea and not very feasible on the tech side without a skill point on the skill trees even though it would be a good change to try tone down the amount of hybrids.

 

Personally I would prefer much more something in the line of:

 

Laze Target places a Laze buff into self, next Ambush, EP or Takedown consumes it. If Ambush consumes the buff its cast time is decreased by 1s. If EP consumes it, it will place 2 Explosive Probes on the target. If Takedown consumes it, it will increase Takedown crit chance to 100%. (3-4 min cooldown)

 

I dont like crit mechanics and this change will allow any spec to use the cooldown for different moments while keeping most of the dmg gained from crit mechanics. MM will be the one hurt the most by this since LT would be most useful to start but with such a long cooldown it is supposed to be more of a offensive support and burst dealer than actual dps increase. Eng/Hybrid will have a blast since double EP means more energy gain and single target dmg and Lethality will be able to use the Takedown change in the beginning of the fight.

 

It will give all specs a chance to burst on a very long cooldown either in a way suited for them OR in a way their skills cooldown allow. Plus this way they will not be bound to skill trees which also garantees that there will be no additional skill in those trees to identify which Laze Target change will happen.

 

But by being the discussion over tomorrow well I just hope they see my idea here

 

My vote goes to change Laze Target but not the one proposed at the moment.

[AngelFluttershy]

Been gone for a while sorry

I want Laze to change but not this change, I think this is way too simple and idea and not very feasible on the tech side without a skill point on the skill trees even though it would be a good change to try tone down the amount of hybrids.

 

Personally I would prefer much more something in the line of:

 

Laze Target places a Laze buff into self, next Ambush, EP or Takedown consumes it. If Ambush consumes the buff its cast time is decreased by 1s. If EP consumes it, it will place 2 Explosive Probes on the target. If Takedown consumes it, it will increase Takedown crit chance to 100%. (3-4 min cooldown)

 

I dont like crit mechanics and this change will allow any spec to use the cooldown for different moments while keeping most of the dmg gained from crit mechanics. MM will be the one hurt the most by this since LT would be most useful to start but with such a long cooldown it is supposed to be more of a offensive support and burst dealer than actual dps increase. Eng/Hybrid will have a blast since double EP means more energy gain and single target dmg and Lethality will be able to use the Takedown change in the beginning of the fight.

 

It will give all specs a chance to burst on a very long cooldown either in a way suited for them OR in a way their skills cooldown allow. Plus this way they will not be bound to skill trees which also garantees that there will be no additional skill in those trees to identify which Laze Target change will happen.

 

But by being the discussion over tomorrow well I just hope they see my idea here

 

My vote goes to change Laze Target but not the one proposed at the moment.

You should check out the other thread that we'll be submitting along side this one and offer up your Laze Target change suggestion, in the requested format, there. I always like discussing new ideas for a change, and your idea is definitely different than what others have suggested. However, two EP's on the target would be an insane amount of damage and every spec would choose to use that in most circumstances, especially if in Eng/Hybrid it gives two sets of Cluster Bombs.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=675601

Edited September 5, 2013 by AngelFluttershy

[BetaKiller]

You should check out the other thread that we'll be submitting along side this one and offer up your Laze Target change suggestion, in the requested format, there. I always like discussing new ideas for a change, and your idea is definitely different than what others have suggested. However, two EP's on the target would be an insane amount of damage and every spec would choose to use that in most circumstances, especially if in Eng/Hybrid it gives two sets of Cluster Bombs.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=675601

 

Ohhh didn't see that one

Posting this there AND fixing the EP I saw that error.. can't have a skill doing 200% max should be 180% (better 150%)

[CorrVondell]

@ paowee

 

thx for your instant massage.

 

here are the results of the german votings...

 

I want LT/SL to affect abilities specific to the 3 specs at the cost of increased cooldown

 

12 Points (for those who don´t know the Eurovision Song Contest that meens YES! )

[Tougod]

I agree with the purposed changed, but I would MUCH rather have another defensive cooldown instead. I'd rather have them change the name and function of Laze Target to something that gives us a 4 sec stealth like the Sent/Mara's have. Our sister class, the Operative, is a stealther class, so why not give us a temp stealth to get us out of trouble when we get locked down by Operatives/Assassins/Warriors....? It makes total sense to me.

[Aerilas]

Put me down for the new idea of Laze Target (autocrit on ambush/explosive probe/takedown). Though the cooldown shouldn't be longer than 2minutes I think, but not any less either

[Aerilas]

So this isn't happening? Shame, I was looking forward to it

[BaineOs]

I still don't entirely get why people think this is an issue. Any question regarding laze target was/is a waste of time in my opinion. I'm really hoping it won't make an appearance that with the next set of questions.

[AngelFluttershy]

I think this mostly came about in the attempt to keep dialogue open with the combat team after the first set of questions. I highly doubt a Laze Target/Target Acquired question will come up again considering we already asked about it, and it seems there are more important questions to be asked this time around (Snipers/Gunslingers were sitting pretty in terms of class balancing last round).

[mr_sim]

I also vote in favor of the change as proposed.

[xZarquon]

While I'm sure a change like I'm proposing will probably never happen, I also find laze target to be boring and static. While I like the proposed change in terms of increasing versatility, it still will basically be "press this button on cooldown for maximum dps." With the changes to Orbital strike greatly decreasing our AoE ability in all trees, I would like something along the lines of (the numbers are purely for example):

 

"laze target increases AoE damage by 50% for 10 seconds."

 

Put this on a 3-minute cooldown and snipers now have the ability to burst down adds in boss fights when the situation requires it. Sure, this could use some tweaking (and probably a name change) so that cluster bombs don't gain the buff if too OP or MM and engineering could get further buffs to OS while "laze target" is active. A change like this would require more situational use especially in add-heavy boss fights, would have only a modest increase on single-target dps, and would give snipers a cooldown for area denial in PvP (so that opponents couldn't just stand in OS and ignore its damage like they do now).

[DVLots]

Been wanting this change since the player reps said it was a possibility they were considering

[Aerilas]

I still don't entirely get why people think this is an issue. Any question regarding laze target was/is a waste of time in my opinion. I'm really hoping it won't make an appearance that with the next set of questions.

 

The thing is that snipers never really needed much changes. (such as the evasion change we're getting, we don't need it) This would just be a small change that could help bursty phases.

And it was proposed (and then ignored) by Bioware themselves. If you would bother to read.

[BaineOs]

The thing is that snipers never really needed much changes. (such as the evasion change we're getting, we don't need it) This would just be a small change that could help bursty phases.

And it was proposed (and then ignored) by Bioware themselves. If you would bother to read.

Ok lets see now, the dev responded to a question that specifically mentioned laze target. The question was of course:

 

PVP question: With 4v4 arenas on the horizon, one concern about the value of the sniper class is its lack of any significant offensive cooldown(s) compared to some of the other ACs. Snipers are capable of some of the highest and most consistent DPS in the game, but are also quite predictable because of cast abilities requiring static line of sight and lack of any dynamic burst that comes along with a valuable offensive cooldown. While useful in their own right, Target Acquired and Laze Target don't have the same on-demand impact that one comes to expect from an offensive cooldown. Are there any plans to address either one of these abilities, considering their slightly underwhelming impact in PvP?

 

Please note the part of the question that says Laze Target. They responded with the following answer:

 

Target Acquired, while admittedly “boring” in what it does, is a rather powerful cooldown in PvP. It’s great for cutting through a tank or heavily armored opponent’s defenses, or simply improving your already great damage. On the other hand, Laze Target does leave a bit to be desired. As you stated in the question, Snipers already deal some of the highest, most consistent damage in the game, so any change to Laze Target would likely come at a price. For example, we could consider changing Laze Target to increase the critical hit chance of your next Ambush, Explosive Probe, or Takedown by 100% (instead of Snipe) – but would you really want that change if it meant that another minute or two were added to Laze Target’s cooldown?

 

Please note where they give their opinion on Target Acquired before moving onto Laze target. They agreed that laze target leaves a lot to be desired and provide an example, nothing more, of how it could be changed. Now people can see that answer as a proposed change but personally I see it as nothing more than helping to explain their viewpoint on laze target. If it was something they were considering they'd have said so in the answer.

 

I said that I thought any question that was asked, note past tense meaning that said question, a waste of time in my opinion. I also said (in the same sentence) that I thought any future question, meaning this round of class rep questions, would also be a waste of time in asking a question about laze target.

 

So where exactly did I fail to read, might I respectfully suggest you take your own advice?

[Aerilas]

Ok lets see now, the dev responded to a question that specifically mentioned laze target. The question was of course:

 

 

 

Please note the part of the question that says Laze Target. They responded with the following answer:

 

 

Please note where they give their opinion on Target Acquired before moving onto Laze target. They agreed that laze target leaves a lot to be desired and provide an example, nothing more, of how it could be changed. Now people can see that answer as a proposed change but personally I see it as nothing more than helping to explain their viewpoint on laze target. If it was something they were considering they'd have said so in the answer.

 

I said that I thought any question that was asked, note past tense meaning that said question, a waste of time in my opinion. I also said (in the same sentence) that I thought any future question, meaning this round of class rep questions, would also be a waste of time in asking a question about laze target.

 

So where exactly did I fail to read, might I respectfully suggest you take your own advice?

 

My bad

[dahyle]

----- Edited August 26, 2021 by dahyle

[SamuelAU]

A Laze Target/Smuggler's Luck working with Explosive Probe/Sabotage Charge would be perfect imo (2 min cd is fine in this case). This skill can be used in every spec, and it would increase the burst effect the skill already has.

 

The only problem would be for the tanks, trying to keep aggro on an autocrit + target acquired boosted explosive probe at the opening.

That would actually be a nerf to our DPS, trading off 1 autocrit Snipe per minute for 1 autocrit Explosive Probe per 2 minutes...

[Xoriius]

I want LT/SL to affect abilities specific to the 3 specs at the cost of increased cooldown

[rverghes]

I want to see some changes to LT/SL but not this one.

 

Auto-crit is horribly boring. The ability might crit anyways. A CD should be something that changes your plan around, that changes your gameplay slightly. The old Laze Target was important not because of the auto-crit, but because other abilities triggered off that crit, so you'd use LT to force the triggers.

 

Sniper Volley is a good CD. You get some dps, but you also get some regen. Sometimes you plan around using for the regen, as when we paired it with Orbital, sometimes just for the buff.

Edited March 12, 2014 by rverghes

[UmaBalla]

Man I'm so tired of the PVP community ************ and moaning about snipers when snipers for the most part are all but useless in pvp. To top it off, these changes effect the PVE community more than the PVP community. Snipers are losing raid group spots to Jugs and Sorcs, even Mercs. Screw Laze target! I want a different damage scale! One for PVE and one for a PVP environment.. problem solved.

 

The PVP community should never be allowed to dictate nor negotiate anything that affects the PVE community. I just find that crazy to even contemplate.

 

Now these (PVP) players can ***** and moan all they want . While us PVE players can get through our content and be viable as we once where.

[BaineOs]

Works both ways dude. It was thanks to you pve dudes that got Orbital nerfed for us pvp'ers.

[mr_sim]

Works both ways dude. It was thanks to you pve dudes that got Orbital nerfed for us pvp'ers.

 

Proof?

 

I've heard many theories on why the nerf happened and fingers have been pointed everywhere, including PvP, PvE, and Operatives. I have yet to hear/see a real answer on why OS got nerfed.

[diadox]

Proof?

 

I've heard many theories on why the nerf happened and fingers have been pointed everywhere, including PvP, PvE, and Operatives. I have yet to hear/see a real answer on why OS got nerfed.

 

As far as I remember, the only justification Bioware ever gave as to why the nerf was happening was that they didn't like how it was rotationally used for single target. "Rotational" is as far away from its usage in pvp as it gets, whereas in pve that's exactly how it was used.

 

Other than that we can only speculate. Looking at it objectively as someone who does both pve and pvp, I can say there were plenty of pve situations where it was undeniably too strong. I really can't say the same for pvp.

[Aerilas]

As far as I remember, the only justification Bioware ever gave as to why the nerf was happening was that they didn't like how it was rotationally used for single target. "Rotational" is as far away from its usage in pvp as it gets, whereas in pve that's exactly how it was used.

 

Other than that we can only speculate. Looking at it objectively as someone who does both pve and pvp, I can say there were plenty of pve situations where it was undeniably too strong. I really can't say the same for pvp.

 

This.

If you really believe Orbital Strike was a PVP nerf then you're deluded. It was clearly a PVE nerf.