Kaggath Tournament - Felonious Empire vs Dark Imperium

[Selenial]

I'm having a very hard time seeing how either of the Heads of State are going to die. They can both defend themselves extremely well.

 

Haha, I can picture it now... All the fleets gone, all the ground forces destroyed... Vader and Traya are standing there like:

Traya: What now?

Vader: Now... You die.

Traya: Lolno. *Force Concealment*

Vader: ....................................... ****............... *Turns to audience...* Ok guys, it's over. It's a draw. Go home guys, it's a draw.

Edited August 11, 2013 by Selenial

[Selenial]

So Beni, 3 questions

 

1) Just how large do you think the Zann Consortium Navy was?

2) Can we get it updated to Santhe Corporation?

3) Who do you think is stronger in a duel, Aurra Sing or Cronal?

[Philitt]

Oya!

 

So after reading through parts of the first Kaggath and this one I'm gonna try to give my opinion on this one.

On one side I think it's gonna be hard to kill Vader because of, well it's Vader after all, and secondly he is on Bastion. But Vader isn't a man who fears his opponents, he respects them, but doesn't fear them. That's why I think it's unlikely that he is gonna hide on Bastion. I think it's largely gonna depend on the use of Malgus' stealth fleet. They could beat the Zann Consortium Fleet through clever use of their advantage. If they dont get to use this advantage I just have this image in my head: Vader hunting down the DI. Not saying Traya is hiding, but it just seems Vader would be the one actively trying to kill his enemies, while Traya waits and looks for opportunities. Power vs Patience and cunning.

 

Just my thoughts

[StarSquirrel]

I think it's largely gonna depend on the use of Malgus' stealth fleet. They could beat the Zann Consortium Fleet

 

My thing is the Zann Consortium fleet is pretty big, Vader has experience dealing with stealth-equipped naval opponents when he took down Black Sun, and Zann Consortium has a lot of ships with Mass Driver cannons. Those things shoot through shields like they're not even there.

[Philitt]

My thing is the Zann Consortium fleet is pretty big, Vader has experience dealing with stealth-equipped naval opponents when he took down Black Sun, and Zann Consortium has a lot of ships with Mass Driver cannons. Those things shoot through shields like they're not even there.

 

Does he know of any way to detect the stealthed ships though? Like in m an episode of TCW I think a seperatist general faced a stealth ship and he picked up the magnetic signature of the ship, while it was visible attacking him, so he could then use some kind of rockets which could "see" the stealthed ship with that signature. No clue if there are any other methods other than the CGT to detected stealthed vessels. But yeah IF Malgus' Fleet doesn't have the moment of surprise Zann Consortum probably has the upper hand

Edited August 11, 2013 by Philitt

[StarSquirrel]

3) Who do you think is stronger in a duel, Aurra Sing or Cronal?

 

I'll throw my opinion in here, Cronal far and away. He just has more formal training and on top of this, he has more raw power. Unless Sing can get the drop on him I think he could go berserk on her and steamroll his way to a win.

 

Sing though is more sound of mind, so as I said, if she gets the drop or riles him up (with Cronal's paranoia I doubt it) she might be able to kill him though.

 

70-30 in favor of Cronal I think.

Edited August 11, 2013 by StarSquirrel

[Selenial]

My thing is the Zann Consortium fleet is pretty big, Vader has experience dealing with stealth-equipped naval opponents when he took down Black Sun, and Zann Consortium has a lot of ships with Mass Driver cannons. Those things shoot through shields like they're not even there.

 

CGT is the Only way my fleets would have trouble with the Consortium. Warp in a stealth fleet to attack a planet, stealth outside of sensor range... Move in. Open circle fleet drops In with some Santhe Corp ships, and the defending force has no choice but to engage them, while Malgus' stealth fleet is pretty much in position, shortly after they would de-cloak, surround the enemy, and fire on their Undefended rears (No dirty jokes. Seriously guys :roll:)

[Selenial]

I'll throw my opinion in here, Cronal far and away. He just has more formal training and on top of this, he has more raw power. Unless Sing can get the drop on him I think he could go berserk on her and steamroll his way to a win.

 

Sing though is more sound of mind, so as I said, if she gets the drop or riles him up (with Cronal's paranoia I doubt it) she might be able to kill him though.

 

70-30 in favor of Cronal I think.

 

Exactly my opinion. Hell, I'd say HK-47 out-classes her too, they'd get in a firefight not a close up Duel, and he has all of her prowess combined with the Infallible rapid-thinking programming of a droid.

[Selenial]

I think you're misunderstanding how a supplier works.

 

You don't get all those ships. You have to make them.

 

You basically have the schematics to make those capital ships. But they aren't made yet. You'll have to stop producing your stealth ships/Republic ships in order to make the others at your shipyards. However, while you're making this new kind of ship, the other faction is churning out ships just as quickly, meaning there's no real numbers advantage being gained.

 

Basically, you have a lot of types of ships. But that doesn't mean you have a lot of those types of ships.

 

Oh god, in my haste to reply to this, I completely forgot to throw out the largest reason why this is wrong.

 

Fighter Construction Facilities,

Corvette Construction Facilities,

Frigate Construction Facilities,

Cruiser Construction Facilities...

 

All of these are different sized, and separate, for maximum efficiency... Seeing as Malgus' stealth fleet, and the Open Circle fleet didnt really have Corvettes, and the Santhe Corporation fighters are better, Santhe would supply those weaker areas of the fleets...

 

Plus, I may be wrong, but I was of the Opinion you couldn't exceed the amount of ships the fleet had to begin with, so the Open Circle Fleet can't go above 60....

[Beniboybling]

I'll throw my opinion in here, Cronal far and away. He just has more formal training and on top of this, he has more raw power. Unless Sing can get the drop on him I think he could go berserk on her and steamroll his way to a win.

 

Sing though is more sound of mind, so as I said, if she gets the drop or riles him up (with Cronal's paranoia I doubt it) she might be able to kill him though.

 

70-30 in favor of Cronal I think.

Really? I was going to say Sing. Cronal seems a master of the esoteric abilities in the Force, but in a pitched battle, Sing has the skills necessary to bring him down.

 

But I'm no expert on Cronal, I urge you to enlighten me.

[Selenial]

Really? I was going to say Sing. Cronal seems a master of the esoteric abilities in the Force, but in a pitched battle, Sing has the skills necessary to bring him down.

 

But I'm no expert on Cronal, I urge you to enlighten me.

 

Sith Sorcery, obviously stronger in Raw Ability (His incredible power in Darksight proves this, and he was Considered enough of a threat by His fellow prophets, and Palpatine to be moved) Has abilities in Lightning,

 

He was Above Average in Meelee combat, however he could cast Illusions, Induce fear in even those with incredible strong minds (People said merely being in his presence made them feel cold, and scared, even though the temperature never dropped) That and of course he could heal himself with ease...

If it really came down to him being near death, would it be possible for him to transfer his essence into Sing?

 

 

Besides, Sing wasn't a great force user. She never displayed power in anything like Force Choke, or lightning, she had the Basics of Jedi Training, but that's about it... She also was never a fan of Jedi, and only seemed to use a lightsaber when fighting other Jedi... Even though she fought Ahsoka Tano and Plo Koon with blasters (Something that ended Horribly, might I add)

 

 

Edit: Darksight is another thing, he would likely see the Battle coming anyway, and half the Beauty of Darksight is being able to Manipulate the visions you saw of the future to your own advantage, and to your whim.

Edited August 11, 2013 by Selenial

[Beniboybling]

Besides, Sing wasn't a great force user. She never displayed power in anything like Force Choke, or lightning, she had the Basics of Jedi Training, but that's about it... She also was never a fan of Jedi, and only seemed to use a lightsaber when fighting other Jedi... Even though she fought Ahsoka Tano and Plo Koon with blasters (Something that ended Horribly, might I add)

Sing should not be underestimated, she's defeated scores of Jedi and was skilled with the use of telekinesis. She could also evade blaster bolts with Force speed and use Force jump.

 

On top of that she was a highly skilled lightsaber duelist with both single and dual blades.

[Selenial]

Sing should not be underestimated, she's defeated scores of Jedi and was skilled with the use of telekinesis. She could also evade blaster bolts with Force speed and use Force jump.

 

On top of that she was a highly skilled lightsaber duelist with both single and dual blades.

 

I read her Wiki page too

 

Cronal however would barely have to engage her, constant Barrage of the Mind, knowing how he would manipulate the Environment and her before the fight even Began, Sith Sorcery, Dark Healing... He'd beat her, I'd say, and it looks like StarSquirrel agrees

[StarSquirrel]

I read her Wiki page too

 

Cronal however would barely have to engage her, constant Barrage of the Mind, knowing how he would manipulate the Environment and her before the fight even Began, Sith Sorcery, Dark Healing... He'd beat her, I'd say, and it looks like StarSquirrel agrees

 

As usual I wont take a hard line approach as I feel things are more pitched than many others do, but essentially yes I agree with Sel.

 

Now, I did mention if Sing got the drop on Cronal she stood a chance at killing him. Cronal wouldn't be able to utilize many of his 'esoteric' abilities in that situation, but as Sel mentioned he was still a fair melee combatant as well as had lighting at his disposal so it might come down to Sing hitting him hard and fast and killing him quick. (also, Cronal's paranoia might limit Sing's ability to surprise him.)

[Selenial]

As usual I wont take a hard line approach as I feel things are more pitched than many others do, but essentially yes I agree with Sel.

 

Now, I did mention if Sing got the drop on Cronal she stood a chance at killing him. Cronal wouldn't be able to utilize many of his 'esoteric' abilities in that situation, but as Sel mentioned he was still a fair melee combatant as well as had lighting at his disposal so it might come down to Sing hitting him hard and fast and killing him quick. (also, Cronal's paranoia might limit Sing's ability to surprise him.)

 

Add Darksight to his Paranoia and he stands no chance.

Dark sight is the ability to see and manipulate the future to your will, he'd know of Aurras attack if she was to try ambush him, and he'd already know what he'd do...

 

Edit: Beni, was starting this debate a clever way to not answer my 3 questions? XD

[Beniboybling]

So Beni, 3 questions

 

1) Just how large do you think the Zann Consortium Navy was?

2) Can we get it updated to Santhe Corporation?

3) Who do you think is stronger in a duel, Aurra Sing or Cronal?

OK fine.

 

1) Fairly large

2) Nope

3) Jar Jar

[StarSquirrel]

3) Jar Jar

 

Trollboybling

[Selenial]

OK fine.

 

1) Fairly large

2) Nope

3) Jar Jar

 

1) Fantastic. Thanks

2) Why not?

3) You miss-spelt Greedo, He'd totally get the drop on 'em both, they'd be dead before they even had a chance to shoot first

Edited August 11, 2013 by Selenial

[Selenial]

Trollboybling

 

The entire post was a troll post, why just highlight number 3?

[StarSquirrel]

The entire post was a troll post, why just highlight number 3?

 

Cause it was the best, I agreed with #1 and I couldn't care less about #2...

[Beniboybling]

1) Fantastic. Thanks

2) Why not?

3) You miss-spelt Greedo, He'd totally get the drop on 'em both, they'd be dead before they even had a chance to shoot first

1) Literally I have no better idea than you do. They were big enough to take on a distracted Empire and the Rebellion. Take from that what you will.

2) See post #168

3) You forget Jar Jar was in fact a Sith Lord.

[tunewalker]

As I said the size of the Consortium is likely around 300 ships since 250 was about what it took for Thrawn to challenge the New Republic, with the empire and the Rebels still at each others throats and yet both of them still around I would say it would take a little bit over what Thrawn had to challenge on the level that they did. Edited August 12, 2013 by tunewalker

[Selenial]

As I said the size of the Consortium is likely around 300 ships since 250 was about what it took for Thrawn to challenge the New Republic, with the empire and the Rebels still at each others throats and yet both of them still around I would say it would take a little bit over what Thrawn had to challenge on the level that they did.

 

Id say more like 200, the rebels and the Imperials never thought them much of a threat, never focused much on them.... The new republic was very focused on Thrawn....

[Selenial]

Ok guys, flying home today, won't be able to post for like 8 hours

[tunewalker]

with these numbers I almost feel like the Zann fleet should have been a minor fleet and the Open circle fleet should have been the whole thing but possibly a Major Fleet (not sure its size either honestly I know other people probably know the numbers but I don't.)