What's the deal with new "vibrant" colors?

[stockmks]

When application doesnt care it may produce unexpected results, such as extreme over-saturation of certain colors. This is basically my problem with this patch in a nutshell. They changed colors by adding more saturation and contrast, and it turned my SWTOR experience into Alice in Wonderland acid trip.

 

Im quite happy that Bioware developers thought about people like me and allowed me to roll back to the way the game was looking before. I checked the game on cheap TN panel display and what I had "before" is actually more or less what TN users are having now with this vibrancy "on".

 

I have the feeling the Acid in Wonderland acid trip effect was intended. The degree of oversaturation is significantly higher than my high color gamut monitor is.. even before calibrating it and setting the icc profile. Its unlikely for that to be a mistake/oversight rather than intent. The developer of the week at bioware got their feature approved? Someone still thinks tor is competing with wow? I dunno.

 

Interesting that it doesn't make a difference on TN panels.

 

Well.. I love tweaking graphics.. so off to play with the since suggestions, gamma settings, fullscreen mode, and manual driver settings to see if that can make a difference. I'll report back if I find a pleasing configuration for the new mode.

 

EDIT: Who am I kidding... its the shadows that are completely broken. This is an issue for pretty much all characters in the game.. but a strong example is.. try rolling a blue skinned twilek with a more dark complexion. You look like you're standing in heavy shade in bright sunlight now. Broken!!

Edited August 7, 2013 by stockmks

[Selethar]

My only complaint is Hoth. Wow is it bright now. However, I will GLADLY live with that due to the new texture depth I am getting. Much better detail for me.

[-piggy-]

I have the feeling the Acid in Wonderland acid trip effect was intended. The degree of oversaturation is significantly higher than my high color gamut monitor is.. even before calibrating it and setting the icc profile.

 

Well thing is, SWTOR is not color managed application. It does not care if you have calibrated your display (even though i wish it was as i mentioned in my original post).

 

So results you are seeing on calibrated wide color gamut display really depends on your display and nothing else. We are usually getting much brighter reds and greens. Switch your display to sRGB mode if this is getting out of control (this defeats a whole point of having wide color gamut screen though

[stockmks]

Well thing is, SWTOR is not color managed application. It does not care if you have calibrated your display (even though i wish it was as i mentioned in my original post).

 

So results you are seeing on calibrated wide color gamut display really depends on your display and nothing else. We are usually getting much brighter reds and greens. Switch your display to sRGB mode if this is getting out of control (this defeats a whole point of having wide color gamut screen though

 

Very good points.. the only challenge would be I doubt that all our monitors simultaneously on patch had their color calibrations changed to have more saturated colors.. it was TOR that did it. There's some effect that's changing the colors literally.. The name of the parameter the game engine reads could be another clue "AllowColorRemapping"..

[Virus_Bot]

I turned it off. TY to the reposter of the yellow post on page 1. Some of the color on the environment look cool, but others not so much, Made my semi-dark skinned char (22 skin color/human) looked almost reddish on char screen and in-game, was like... wth.. maybe it was the complexion, that it made the cheeks more reddish, idk,.

Also made another dark skinned char seem almost black. don't like it. It was better before. Like jacking the colors up stupid

Would be nice to have an in-game option to toggle it.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Virus_Bot

[rivalschools]

I agree that if it were unannounced I wouldn't notice anything. To me the colours are a bit too bright, though they don't bother me that much and in return there's a new depth on the textures that I'm loving. I'd say the shadows are the same thing, but now I realize I can see more details.

 

And it's not that dark here. It would if I were on my old LCD display.

[WillCaedes]

The weirdest thing is I think it actually DID improve my performance in-game which is very odd. Places I could only run at 30fps or a bit higher are now a steady 50+ FPS and occasionally 70+ in the less intensive areas.

 

Bioware, whatever you've done engine wise, please for the love of God, DON'T break it. D:

[SkunkWerks]

This is kinda derailing my thread...

 

Not really, you decided the fact that you "work with graphics" and are using color profiling on your equipment was worthy of mention here. If it were extraneous information, you might have thought to leave it out. You didn't, so it's fair game within the bounds of this topic.

 

...but i have to say that i view my work on many different calibrated displays - very often - and when said devices are calibrated properly (at least every month or so), the results look more or less the same.

 

And I'm fairly sure that- if you take the game to all of those monitors- it will look just as "unacceptable" on every one of them. Not sure what your point is.

 

The issue is your calibration is "screwed up". And I'm not sure why you're expecting Bioware to care, let alone know how badly you have your colors messed up in your working environment. But I expect I'm about to figure that out in a moment...

 

But calibration guarantees you will not see something extremely different (i.e. you may see LESS colors if your device is not capable but not MORE which is exactly what happening with SWTOR on wide color gamut display).

 

Aaaaaand that's not what color profiling does. This may be an issue here as well.

 

The vast majority of devices at least display the same number of colors. If this isn't true for you at the moment then you aren't using a display manufactured in the last decade, and your company should be springing for newer monitors to replace them- since the matter of color perception is important enough in your company to use color profiling.

 

The problem is- due to differences in manufacture- not all monitors display those colors in the same way. The temperature at which each device displays colors, the sync clock, all of these things will be slightly different from device to device. This will result in the same color being displayed differently from device to device.

 

Color calibration is used to close that gap, but it's far from perfect as a solution. The ideal of course is that you'd have all display/printing devices manufactured in exactly the same way. Due to the limitations of the free market, of course, this will never happen. So we color-calibrate.

 

The key point you've missed here is that the reason color profiling even exists in the first place is because there is no objectively correct way to display color from one device to another. The best you can do is make sure color is displaying consistently on all of the monitors you use. So, for the set of all devices you use, the shade of red you're designing in will appear the same on all monitors and someone else at another stage of the process won't decide to "correct" what is already correct because the monitor they're using isn't showing color the same way yours is.

 

Having a color profile doesn't make your profile the "correct" one for all people who could possibly be using a computer with a monitor attached to it (or even a computer with a wide-gamut color display attached to it for that matter). Your particular color profile is still liable to the risk of being perceived as consistently "wrong" from an outside perspective- or within the context of an entirely different set of circumstances. Say for instance, playing an MMO.

 

Because you clearly missed the point of my original post.

 

I'm not interested in your posts past the first one. I am sure that you don't like the way the game looks on your monitor, and I don't question that. What I'm questioning is your reasoning for why it looks bad. That appears to be deeply flawed- likely because your understanding of the issues it touches on is also deeply flawed.

 

So, please, don't use the old "you've missed my point" chestnut. I get your point just fine. Better than you do, in fact. Just as you expect Bioware to care or know about your own exotic color calibration, you also expect me to read posts I am not interested in and did not respond to.

 

I reason this is an issue with your perception of the situation- on many levels.

 

In any case, what I am interested in here is the fact that your understanding of the situation of calibrating for color- as well as how relevant to this situation it is (hint: it's not) isn't in tune with the knowledge "someone who (claims to) works with graphics" should possess.

 

I'm interested in this subject probably because I do work with graphics myself.

Edited August 7, 2013 by SkunkWerks

[Heezdedjim]

I have zero problems seeing anything. You need to adjust your monitor and in game settings.

The in-game gamma is maxed, and I have zero problems seeing my surroundings or the user interface in any other game or application on this system.

[StarWarsOR]

It seems that you can disable the new colors

 

Quote: Originally Posted by Beesodd View Post

It looks like there is a manual toggle in the settings file.

 

First, get to the main settings folder by pressing the Windows Key and R, and entering: %localappdata%/swtor/swtor

 

After opening the client_settings file, you can change the AllowColorRemapping value to "false" to revert to the old look.:

 

What if your ini doesnt have a line AllowColorRemapping? How do i disable them?

Edited August 7, 2013 by StarWarsOR

[NicAX]

What if your ini doesnt have a line AllowColorRemapping? How do i disable them?

 

Just add the line AllowColorRemapping = false under Renderer

[chaosmadness]

I started playing this game a week ago or so and already mentioned to some my friends how awesome its look was. Now I just logged into the game after new patch was applied and all I feel when looking at character selection screen is disgust.

 

Makes me wonder if game developers realize there could be people out there who work professionally with graphics and may use expanded color gamut displays? Whats the deal with the over-saturation? If you intended to make it "vibrant" then make it honor my display color profile.

 

Gosh it is practically unplayable to me now with those reds, greens and ugly looking shadows. Did anyone actually complained about this game was not looking "vibrant" enough before?

 

Dont understand how can u say that dude...

In my opinion game looks much better now, im leveling at the moment in Belsavis and planet looks much better, the new colors give more life to the environment.

 

I like!

[StarWarsOR]

Just add the line AllowColorRemapping = false under Renderer

 

Cheers,

Thank you

[Damask_Rose]

Dont understand how can u say that dude...

In my opinion game looks much better now, im leveling at the moment in Belsavis and planet looks much better, the new colors give more life to the environment.

 

I like!

 

Some people don't like neon. Your better is my worse. Just accept the fact that not everyone likes the same thing. I hope Bioware adds an in-game way to revert the settings in the next patch. Choice makes everyone happy! My husband thought he did the work around for me, but something didn't work, so I'm stuck with the graphics I dislike.

 

I was in Imperial Taris last night and in the shadowy areas it didn't look too bad. A little too dayglow green for my taste, but something I could get used to in time (not like, but get used to). However, my lightsaber was so bright I flinched every time I attacked. Silver-blue turned blinding white. The cut-scenes blanched everyone out. When I rode my speeder through an area that was lit up, again it hurt my eyes because it was so bright and all detail got washed out.

[MidichIorian]

i forgot about the color update when I signed in after patch and didnt notice a difference. Saw this thread, which brought back my memory so I've been paying attention to it today.

 

Still not noticing it. Maybe if I ran the two versions next to eachother but not as a stand-alone update. I'm running the game on GTX680 SLi computer, max settings, and top BenQ monitor so the reason I'm not noticing it shouldnt be because of the hardware. I'm simply not seeing it and with that in mind I cannot understand how people can make a big deal out of it.

[Virus_Bot]

lol.. second post deleted.. nice.

 

well anyways..

 

http://postimg.org/image/4tgjvg9gb/

 

http://postimg.org/image/xqikk3uo7/

 

 

"vibrant" colors alright..

Edited August 7, 2013 by Virus_Bot

[Cernow]

Still not noticing it. Maybe if I ran the two versions next to eachother but not as a stand-alone update. I'm running the game on GTX680 SLi computer, max settings, and top BenQ monitor so the reason I'm not noticing it shouldnt be because of the hardware. I'm simply not seeing it and with that in mind I cannot understand how people can make a big deal out of it.

 

Why can't people get it into their heads that everyone will be seeing different things, depending on their monitor, their graphics card, their colour management profile (if they use one), their eyesight (everyone has different colour perception), their viewing environment etc. Lots of variables. Just because YOU don't see much difference doesn't mean that someone else doesn't see quite a significant difference, which they may or may not like depending on their tastes. All anyone is asking for is the ability to choose for ourselves, via an in-game setting that sticks, not a workaround in a config file that only sticks until you change something else in your settings).

 

Do you feel the need to walk into doctors waiting rooms and tell everyone you feel fine therefore surely they must do too?

[MidichIorian]

Do you feel the need to walk into doctors waiting rooms and tell everyone you feel fine therefore surely they must do too?

I think i would have opened with the question "why are YOU here".

 

I am open to the possibility that the colors might be screwed up on lower settings. I was running the game in low or medium on my old computer and after one of their updates it was impossible for me to use those "over the head flashlights" that some FP'es and instances are using. Instead of a soft light it would turn into a completely white beam that made things impossible to see. That said, so far I havent seen a single evidence of a change like that. The screenshots people have been posting before/after are more or less identical, give or take a tad shinier red color.

Edited August 7, 2013 by MidichIorian

[-piggy-]

Not really, you decided the fact that you "work with graphics" and are using color profiling on your equipment was worthy of mention here. If it were extraneous information, you might have thought to leave it out. You didn't, so it's fair game within the bounds of this topic.

 

I usually don't respond to troll posts but since there there is some chance you were sincere, and you also question my professionalism, I will bite.

 

And I'm fairly sure that- if you take the game to all of those monitors- it will look just as "unacceptable" on every one of them.

 

Exactly. It will. Except on sRGB ones.

 

The issue is your calibration is "screwed up". And I'm not sure why you're expecting Bioware to care, let alone know how badly you have your colors messed up in your working environment. But I expect I'm about to figure that out in a moment...

 

My calibration is fine, the issue is that SWTOR is not color managed application. I mentioned that I use calibrated display in wishful thinking that it was.

 

Aaaaaand that's not what color profiling does. This may be an issue here as well.

 

Pardon me for skipping your rant below that quoted part where you trying to educate me in how color calibration and color profiles work. You obviously are misguided, thinking I don’t know the simple facts you spent so much time on typing. It has nothing to do with what I experienced with SWTOR. You may wish to research into classic problem experienced by people with wide gamut displays when they use non-color-managed applications.

 

The key point you've missed here is that the reason color profiling even exists in the first place is because there is no objectively correct way to display color from one device to another. The best you can do is make sure color is displaying consistently on all of the monitors you use. So, for the set of all devices you use, the shade of red you're designing in will appear the same on all monitors and someone else at another stage of the process won't decide to "correct" what is already correct because the monitor they're using isn't showing color the same way yours is.

 

The key point here is that if SWTOR were color managed application the colors Im seeing in-game on my hardware calibrated display with proper color profile installed in OS would have matched the colors SWTOR designers were seeing when creating textures, designing effects, shaders and such. If they used calibrated hardware as well. And if you re-read my original post this is what it was about.

 

Having a color profile doesn't make your profile the "correct" one for all people who could possibly be using a computer with a monitor attached to it (or even a computer with a wide-gamut color display attached to it for that matter).

 

Thank you, captain Obvious.

 

Your particular color profile is still liable to the risk of being perceived as consistently "wrong" from an outside perspective- or within the context of an entirely different set of circumstances.

 

I already said it and I will say it again. Even if you use cheap TN panel but calibrate it with hardware device, your OS understands how to work with color profiles and application you are working with is color-managed, you will not see anything ENTIRELY different from what person who created the image you are looking at saw.

 

I'm not interested in your posts past the first one. I am sure that you don't like the way the game looks on your monitor, and I don't question that. What I'm questioning is your reasoning for why it looks bad. That appears to be deeply flawed- likely because your understanding of the issues it touches on is also deeply flawed.

 

The only thing deeply flawed here is your perception of my original post and the absence of some vital knowledge on your part.

 

So, please, don't use the old "you've missed my point" chestnut. I get your point just fine. Better than you do, in fact. Just as you expect Bioware to care or know about your own exotic color calibration, you also expect me to read posts I am not interested in and did not respond to.

 

I expect you not to flame in threads where you rush with questioning other people professionalism without clear understanding of the situation which is caused by absence of knowledge in the field you are trying to flame me about. I actually find it funny seeing how you don’t understand the simple fact that application which doesn’t care about color profile would ignore it whatsoever.

 

In any case, what I am interested in here is the fact that your understanding of the situation of calibrating for color- as well as how relevant to this situation it is (hint: it's not) isn't in tune with the knowledge "someone who (claims to) works with graphics" should possess.

 

I'm interested in this subject probably because I do work with graphics myself.

 

I will repeat myself, if you are genuinely interested in the subject you will go and research the issues people on wide color gamut displays experience in applications which are not color-managed. And read couple of short posts I made after my original one in this same thread where I explain my problem in more detail. So far, it clearly states the only thing you are interested in is flaming and trolling:

 

I get your point just fine. Better than you do, in fact.

 

you also expect me to read posts I am not interested in and did not respond to.

 

After you are done with your learning, do come back and educate us on if it is actually possible for full screen directx applications to manage colors properly. Im not afraid to state I have zero knowledge in how directx operates. But you can prove how awesome you are, right? After all, you "work with graphics" yourself.

Edited August 7, 2013 by -piggy-

[Asavrede]

These oversaturated colors look like poo. Tbh whomever sat in a design meeting and approved this ought to be shot. Or at the very least have his head examined.

 

All you're accomplishing is people (or me at least) having to adjust monitor settings for the game to be bearable to look at.

[-piggy-]

i forgot about the color update when I signed in after patch and didnt notice a difference. Saw this thread, which brought back my memory so I've been paying attention to it today.

 

Still not noticing it. Maybe if I ran the two versions next to eachother but not as a stand-alone update. I'm running the game on GTX680 SLi computer, max settings, and top BenQ monitor so the reason I'm not noticing it shouldnt be because of the hardware. I'm simply not seeing it and with that in mind I cannot understand how people can make a big deal out of it.

 

Its all about different hardware different people use dude... Your display is probably just a standard gamut sRGB one, so it actually may start look better for you. As i mentioned here previously, the patch turned my game into Alice in Wonderland acid trip kind of game (what you seeing after the patch is pretty much similar to what i had BEFORE the patch maybe minus contrast increase). Thanks goodness Bioware gave people like me an option to switch it back.

[MSchuyler]

Why can't people get it into their heads that everyone will be seeing different things, depending on their monitor, their graphics card, their colour management profile (if they use one), their eyesight (everyone has different colour perception), their viewing environment etc. Lots of variables. Just because YOU don't see much difference doesn't mean that someone else doesn't see quite a significant difference, which they may or may not like depending on their tastes. All anyone is asking for is the ability to choose for ourselves, via an in-game setting that sticks, not a workaround in a config file that only sticks until you change something else in your settings).

 

Do you feel the need to walk into doctors waiting rooms and tell everyone you feel fine therefore surely they must do too?

 

Yes, of course. in fact, one of my eyes sees color differently than the other. One sees "more pastel" colors than the other so blue, for example, is a "lighter blue" as seen by one eye compared to the other. Things simply are not as vibrant. So I understand completely because I'm a walking contradiction in colors myself. Having said that I do not think there is any evidence anywhere that people see colors in a drastically different fashion. My "red" is not your "green," for example, and you're not looking up into a sky that would be purple to me. In other words, it is doubtful you are especially different from anyone else in the way you perceive color.

 

I think the issue is that after looking over these differences (with both eyes) they are slight. To claim that the older way is beautiful and the newer way is unplayable seems to be complete hyperbole. Yes, you may see color differently, but if it's THAT different, you must have an awfully hard time in the real world.

 

What I suspect is that had you the benefit of the new color scheme initially, you wouldn't be complaining at all, and that if they "toned down" the color because it was "too bright," there would be a hue (snicker!) and cry that the colors had lost their vibrancy, and we would now be having this discussion from an opposite point of view. You're just seeing a difference, and you've taken offense, which is a needless expense of energy.

 

Bottom line is that BW has provided a way for you to turn this off, so if you don't like it, turn it off. If you feel incapable of finding the text file and adding a line or changing an existing one, I really question why you are in front of a computer at all and hope you don't have the same difficulty changing channels on the TV. But if that's true, get someone competent to do it for you.

 

The solution to your troubles has been laid before you, so go affect the change.

[Laughard]

If you don't like it, turn it off.

 

Easy Peasy. Nice and Easy. Light and Breezy.

[TUXs]

These oversaturated colors look like poo. Tbh whomever sat in a design meeting and approved this ought to be shot. Or at the very least have his head examined.

 

All you're accomplishing is people (or me at least) having to adjust monitor settings for the game to be bearable to look at.

 

Whoa whoa whoa...calm down...nobody did this to upset you. If you dislike it, there are multiple posts describing how to revert the change...even a yellow name gave the instructions. Nobody needs to be shot...or examined.

[XavinNydek]

I strongly suspect that a lot of the people claiming it is terrible have wide gamut displays and don't know it. Unless an application knows about color profiles (games certainly don't), everything will look more saturated and vibrant than intended. Those people were already seeing SWTOR more saturated and vibrant than designed, before the patch. After the patch I imagine it got to be too much. I have a calibrated normal gamut monitor and it's almost too much for me in certain instances, and the crushed blacks in the shadows don't do them any favors. Since this is all post processing, they should have at the minimum a checkbox in the options, and preferably a slider so you can adjust it to something that looks good on your hardware.