Since when was this alright?

[CrazyMcGee]

Finish your class story on Taris and you'll have your second companion (not counting the ship droid).

 

^

 

Dude, what the hell are you doing complaining when you haven't even finished your class quest? Get your healer and gear her.

[Lunafox]

Taris, level 23 Trooper. Decide I might as well clear out the Heroics while I'm here, given how over half of the missions on this over-large dump of a world have given me a grand total of SIX exp for rewards each time, and a pitiful ammount of credits, purely because it never made it clear what sort of level I should be when I got there. Pardon me for trying to get decent kit on the character I'd got furthest with.

 

So, not only do mission give you abysmal rewards as soon as they go grey? Some genius decided that it was perfectly acceptable for mobs SEVEN LEVELS below me to kick my butt with little effort. Trying to complete the Locust mission on Taris. Yes, yes, I know; Heroic 4+, wah wah, go get a group. Well, newsflash; in its infinite wisdom, the group finder now outright decrees that that is ENTIRELY impossible. Because I've out-levelled it, of course. Not like I should want to clear out the damn things clogging up my mission log, right?

 

So, here I am. Stuck with ****y rewards for a mission where the enemies are grossly overpowered. Bloody 'raid design' MMOs at the worst...Don't get me wrong, I'm loving the rest of TOR so far, i.e. the bits that aren't designed to cheat. But this just takes the biscuit, cake and the trifle too...

 

 

(inb4 'l2p noob omg' and other such junk...)

 

Actually the game does tell you the levels you should be when you go to a given planet. It says when you focus on the planet, when you click your space map on your ship. It tells you there. For a pub, Taris is 16-20....for an Imp its 32-26.

 

You said you're a trooper...so for pubs, here goes..Tython/Ord mantel 1-10, Coruscant 10-16, Taris 16-20, Narshadaa 20-24, Alderaan 28-32, Balmorra 32-26, Quesh, 36-37, Hoth 37-41, Belsavis 41-44, Voss 44-47 Corellia 47-49/50 and then off to wherever you go for your final crap...and voila you're done.

[jubakumbi]

...

Having come from a game where 'raid content' was practically non-existant until relatively shortly before the Suits pulled the plug, I find the design of -7 enemies still being able to slam you thanks to some arbitrary label kind of abhorrent...but whatever, I'll just get the leet pros slamming me for daring to have an opinion, right?...

 

The OP was mostly a vent post, because, like I said, I find this kind of design kind of stupid. But I realise EA/Bioware is never going to chance that, and I won't get much understanding here beyond "**** and L2P noob!" Well, ok, that's unfair, some people have been well reasoned and helpful about it. But oh well.

 

I think I remember you from CoH. Welcome to SWTOR.

 

As harsh and rude as it sounds, I don't mean it that way, but this is not the same game as the one you left.

Level in this game, when it comes to elites, is just different, as you have discovered. That does not make it wrong or stupid. Arriving to the boards with your abrasive attitude is not winning you any friends either.

 

You made the assumption that -7 should always be easy. The game did not tell you that was the case.

 

Every MMO, even the one you came from, has it's own flavor and rules.

 

Assuming all of them work the same is not the fault of the game.

 

Since you seem to like much of the game, I suggest you take a few minutes to brush up on it's particular quirks so that you can enjoy it.

 

Personally, I delete all Heroic 4+ content unless I see others looking for it in chat. It's not needed and frankly the particular rewards are not game breaking, plenty of other stuff to find.

 

I am in a pretty relaxed and helpful guild, so feel free to PM me if you like, we can see if you are on the same server.

Edited August 1, 2013 by jubakumbi

[TechbotAlpha]

^

 

Dude, what the hell are you doing complaining when you haven't even finished your class quest? Get your healer and gear her.

 

Well, due to 23 being my highest level character, and pretty much all the TOR wikis being as helpful (and complete) as a broken rubics cube...it probably shouldn't be that surprising =P

[TechbotAlpha]

I think I remember you from CoH. Welcome to SWTOR.

 

As harsh and rude as it sounds, I don't mean it that way, but this is not the same game as the one you left.

Level in this game, when it comes to elites, is just different, as you have discovered. That does not make it wrong or stupid. Arriving to the boards with your abrasive attitude is not winning you any friends either.

 

You made the assumption that -7 should always be easy. The game did not tell you that was the case.

 

 

Cheers.

 

And yeah, posting at about 1am after quitting from the annoyance may not always (re: probably never) be the best idea, but still. The in-game stuff doesn't do a very good job of explaining "Hey, these guys? Yeah, they will hard for about ten levels more than normal mobs", and TOR does not have very well made (or even completed) wikis, sadly.

 

Besides, having seen some of the posts here I hardly think I'm the most abrasive. At least I can form coherent sentences too =P lol

[MaximusRex]

I'll just get the leet pros slamming me for daring to have an opinion, right?

 

You aren't being slammed because you have an opinion, you are being slammed because you are being a brat about it.

 

You're on Taris but don't have your Taris companion, try doing your class quests and using her.

[jubakumbi]

Cheers.

 

And yeah, posting at about 1am after quitting from the annoyance may not always (re: probably never) be the best idea, but still. The in-game stuff doesn't do a very good job of explaining "Hey, these guys? Yeah, they will hard for about ten levels more than normal mobs", and TOR does not have very well made (or even completed) wikis, sadly.

 

Besides, having seen some of the posts here I hardly think I'm the most abrasive. At least I can form coherent sentences too =P lol

 

It's not that you are the most abrasive, but your OP did started off testy due to your state of mind. I am well aware of the level of mouth breathing, worthless human trash that post on this forum, I just ignore them like I do on all forums.

 

As for wikis, never looked for one. As for in-game instructions, I never trust those in an MMO, too many things change too fast.

 

I just wandered around and experimented until I learned things. The main thing is to realize, what you already have seen, is that Heroic really means something, regardless of your level. The remainder of the game, level vs level wise, will work as you probably expect. I find the other helpful thing to do is carefully plot what quests I am doing, because if you keep them even, you end up in areas where you have several going simultaneously. If you have out-leveled content from FPs, then class quests are really the only thing to bother with on that character, the side quests will still be there for another. FPs will have given better rewards than the side quests as well IMO.

[Selven]

I don't *have* any other companions other than Jorgan (and the ship droid)

 

Pardon me for being under the impression of being able to complete stuff on a planet when I got there.

 

But you didn't complete "stuff" on Taris. You've got your class quest to finish. And instead of giving us your opinion on why you should be able to kill the Locost, why not go do that first?

 

I find the design of -7 enemies still being able to slam you thanks to some arbitrary label kind of abhorrent...but whatever, I'll just get the leet pros slamming me for daring to have an opinion, right?

 

Again, the design is for you to do your class quests when on the appropriate level. Why are you skipping such an important part of the planet (and your character's story)?

 

The OP was mostly a vent post, because, like I said, I find this kind of design kind of stupid. But I realise EA/Bioware is never going to chance that, and I won't get much understanding here beyond "**** and L2P noob!" Well, ok, that's unfair, some people have been well reasoned and helpful about it. But oh well.

 

Why should the game change just because you forgot/ignored the class quests? I've seen people telling you to do that, and you've yet to reply to either of them about it. Can't you just admit you might have been slightly mistaken yourself? I'm betting a healer companion would do a world of difference!

 

Meanwhile, I'm gonna go lift that stone in my back yard that takes 4 to lift.

[TechbotAlpha]

But you didn't complete "stuff" on Taris. You've got your class quest to finish. And instead of giving us your opinion on why you should be able to kill the Locost, why not go do that first?

 

Again, the design is for you to do your class quests when on the appropriate level. Why are you skipping such an important part of the planet (and your character's story)?

 

 

I'm not trying to skip anything. That's kind of the point; the content, so far, has been good enough that I want to do *all* of it. Story, side and whatever missions. Only problem is when you over-level (due to doing everything) and then there's problems. Which is really, really annoying. But, eh, whatever. I'll either get some friends to come grind these guys into paste or simply drop it for another time.

[OwenBrooks]

I think I remember you from CoH. Welcome to SWTOR.

 

 

Played COH for over 8 years, My first toon was a regen scrapper and back then I was a god till the nerf

 

This was the best game I could find as a replacement

Edited August 1, 2013 by OwenBrooks

[TechbotAlpha]

Played COH for over 8 years, My first toon was a regen scrapper and back then I was a god till the nerf

 

This was the best game I could find as a replacement

 

Amen to that. An MMORPG coupled with biowares dialogue wheels and some really class writing? Uh, yes the hell please?

 

It's not perfect, not by any means (one sit emote? You gotta be kidding me...) but it's better than a lot of what I saw, heh.

[Icestar]

purely because it never made it clear what sort of level I should be when I got there.

 

Check the map in your ship, there it says what level the planet is for.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Icestar

[metalfenix]

lvl 23 is not horribly overleveled for taris, in fact, if you ask in general chat for a group, you would get it (I know this. my current commando healer got to lvl 24 before we finished taris and I managed to do all the heroics there). Finish the side quests, even the bonus series, and for the love of god, get elara asap. she will help you no matter if you are a tank or dps.

 

btw, you use GF for finding groups on planets? I never used it for that since it came out.

[OddballEasyEight]

I found this whole thread to be very strange to me...

 

Before SW:TOR i had never played another "normal" MMO. (I had played APB and tried both SWG and AO, but never caught the MMO "bug")

But to me everything made sense pretty quickly.

 

It didnt take me long to figure out that guys with a silver star over their head was a bit harder than the regular guys.

Guys with a gold star were even harder, and ususally took a good effort (and a companion) to take down.

The top-of-the-line guys were something you didnt take on alone (or with a companion).

 

I didnt rage about it, i didnt throw a hissy-fit and i didnt blame poor design.

I also figured out, on my own, pretty quickly how many levels above the enemies you had to be to beat them soloing a heroic.

 

I just dont get why you blew your top like this.

As far as i can figure, it has nothing to do with actual game design, and all to do with your own expectations of how the game "should be".

 

And i dont get some of the "L2P" responses either. It really isn't helping to say that. What might be easy for one person could be very hard for another.

[Quraswren]

SNIP...

 

 

Why should the game change just because you forgot/ignored the class quests? I've seen people telling you to do that, and you've yet to reply to either of them about it. Can't you just admit you might have been slightly mistaken yourself? I'm betting a healer companion would do a world of difference!

 

Meanwhile, I'm gonna go lift that stone in my back yard that takes 4 to lift.

 

The truth is the OP is highly mistaken on a great many things.

 

However, he does have a healer companion and he can make a huge difference at those levels.

 

The unappreciated - SHIP DROID. He's a healer. Get him some gear and he's just as good a healer as the rest of them for that level range, his damage just sucks.

 

I've geared him on 2 different toons (Vanguard and Sentinel that gets a real healer/dps later in the game) and the ship droid is great for keeping me moving and DPSing and taking out harder mobs will little to no down time. You just need to get him some gear

 

The OP is out of his mind but even at his level I don't think he has the skill to solo the H4 he's talking about.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Quraswren

[ApostleThirst]

Mobs that are seven levels below, yet somehow able to tank stupid amounts of damage thanks to an arbitrary 'Elite' label. You try doing 'The Locust' mission on Taris, please, tell me how I need to 'l2p'?

 

That's the point of Heroic Missions. They're labelled 2 or 4, you're supposed to be able to do them with either 2 people or 4. I usually play Imp side, but I'm guessing the Locust is a Heroic 4, in which case it can still be a pain.

 

As a Vanguard I don't have tons of crowd control tools available. And my trooper and Jorgan are both pretty well kitted out. Yet given *every* damn mob there gets Elite status, any group that has more than one Champion in it is pretty much a death sentence. And, yes, I could just skip it, but that is seriously annoying to a completionist.

 

Again, the point of Heroics. They're much more difficult, so don't expect to see any 'normals' in it. Also, you're using Jorgan? Don't you get Dorne after Taris? As in a healer? Healer comps, simply because of their ability to regenerate you and themselves, are invaluable. Other comps can't compete, because to make them more powerful would put them on the level of players.

 

If it really bothers you so much, then either group up or grab Elara. A stun probably wouldn't hurt either.

And, frankly, I don't see how this situation is my fault. The game encourages you to do certain things often (Flashpoints) and, hey, the rewards are pretty nice so, why not? And then I wind up with this, too high to get actual rewards, and yet too low for grey Elites to not be stupidly dangerous still. 'Logic'...

 

It's your fault because no-one else needed this explained to them. Elites are, well, elite enemies, to give a little variety in gameplay. Champions are there to provide challenges for the player (and killing unique Champions go towards planetary achievements). This is a game, and yes it is sometimes difficult. That is because it is also an MMO, which wants you to band together with other players to win.

[TechbotAlpha]

 

I just dont get why you blew your top like this.

As far as i can figure, it has nothing to do with actual game design, and all to do with your own expectations of how the game "should be".

 

 

Posting at 1am is a really bad idea, basically. You make one bad post and everyone chews you up over it. I shouldn't be surprised, been around the 'nets long enough, but eh...

 

And yeah, probably expectations. The only other MMO I played (City of Heroes) seemed to be rare in its design of actually making the player character seem powerful; you could set your own difficulty for missions (the majority were in instances, another rare thing it seems) and went from +0 (same level mobs) x0 (mobs scaled for however many players were on the team) all the way up to +4 x8 (the max number of people in a team)....and that was solo.

 

Not saying that 'OMG y this game no do wut I want?!', just hoping that clarifies where I came from to find the TOR design to weird and alien. I've already gotten pretty used to it, but, yeah.

[TechbotAlpha]

 

The OP is out of his mind but even at his level I don't think he has the skill to solo the H4 he's talking about.

 

Man, I make one badly thought-out post...did this take a dump in your cereal or something?

 

Really wish I could just shut this thread now. Had time to cool down (hard in a heatwave) and the info that I get a new companion and a healer at that relatively soon is good to know, so cheers to those who pointed that out.

[GatorAndy]

It seems loads of good advice has been given here already, so I'm not going to pile on the OP. I did want to add a note about an additional mechanic that I didn't see, and that is the recent (2.1 or so?) buff to elites and champions. They now have additional defensive stats, specifically to make soloing heroics more difficult.

[cchwolf]

I came from city of heroes as well. I played for 6 years, until it shut down last November. And ya, I had a bunch of toons tailored to doing the +4 x 8 missions. This game is definitely not like that, at all. Most times, if I am fighting a mob with say a Strong, and two normal enemies, and an additional Strong wanders in, I will be in big trouble unless I take immediate action. The key to surviving in this game really is CC's and interrupts, and knowing your defensive cooldowns, and when to use them. You pretty much gotta take that second strong out of the fight with concussion blast, and interrupt the boss's strong attacks using either cryo grenade, your knockback attacks etc.

 

Make sure you have ''Show enemy cast bars'' on, if it is not on by default. When you see an elite casting ''firebomb'' or something you don't want to get hit with, and you see the cast bar filling up...interrupt it. They lose the time spent on casting it already, and it resets the cooldown on the ability.

 

Elara really will help you. Besides being heals, she has a decent CC ability which is the 8s or so cryo freeze that she often opens the fights with. So start blasting the boss, and for the next 8 seconds he will be unable to retaliate after elara freezes him. Soon as you start taking damage, pop your reactive shield without even thinking about it. Use cryo grenade, concussion charge, disabling shot etc to interrupt boss attacks, and limit your damage taken either further. On a H4 with multiple elites, take one out of the fight completely at the beginning with concussion round. Draw the others away, and Aoe/ST them down while interrupting, and minimizing your damage taken as much as you can. Soloing the Taris H4s at your level is entirely possible. Granted, it's also challenging, but that's part of the fun too.

[TechbotAlpha]

I came from city of heroes as well. I played for 6 years, until it shut down last November. And ya, I had a bunch of toons tailored to doing the +4 x 8 missions. This game is definitely not like that, at all. Most times, if I am fighting a mob with say a Strong, and two normal enemies, and an additional Strong wanders in, I will be in big trouble unless I take immediate action. The key to surviving in this game really is CC's and interrupts, and knowing your defensive cooldowns, and when to use them. You pretty much gotta take that second strong out of the fight with concussion blast, and interrupt the boss's strong attacks using either cryo grenade, your knockback attacks etc.

 

Make sure you have ''Show enemy cast bars'' on, if it is not on by default. When you see an elite casting ''firebomb'' or something you don't want to get hit with, and you see the cast bar filling up...interrupt it. They lose the time spent on casting it already, and it resets the cooldown on the ability.

 

Elara really will help you. Besides being heals, she has a decent CC ability which is the 8s or so cryo freeze that she often opens the fights with. So start blasting the boss, and for the next 8 seconds he will be unable to retaliate after elara freezes him. Soon as you start taking damage, pop your reactive shield without even thinking about it. Use cryo grenade, concussion charge, disabling shot etc to interrupt boss attacks, and limit your damage taken either further. On a H4 with multiple elites, take one out of the fight completely at the beginning with concussion round. Draw the others away, and Aoe/ST them down while interrupting, and minimizing your damage taken as much as you can. Soloing the Taris H4s at your level is entirely possible. Granted, it's also challenging, but that's part of the fun too.

 

Glad to see I'm not alone, haha.

 

Alright, thanks to those who gave solid advice, I'll mop up the story missions, then come back and give it a shot. If that still doesn't work, well, onto the next planet.

 

And rotten eggs to all those just slamming the newbie

[Quraswren]

Man, I make one badly thought-out post...did this take a dump in your cereal or something?

 

Really wish I could just shut this thread now. Had time to cool down (hard in a heatwave) and the info that I get a new companion and a healer at that relatively soon is good to know, so cheers to those who pointed that out.

 

Then I suggest next time you sit back, count to whatever you're capable of before posting a rant on the forums that makes you sound more like a child than a rational individual.

 

plenty of gamers here willing to help you but your delivery is more than atrocious.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Quraswren

[TechbotAlpha]

Then I suggest next time you sit back, count to whatever you're capable of- .

 

Says the person slamming someone who's admitted they dun goofed...

[Icebergy]

If you go into your mission log it tells you what level the missions are. If you are significantly over that level, you should go to the next planet.

[Malastare]

A bunch of people have already covered most of the relevant information, but there are some (somewhat common) misconceptions here that cause problems for new players:

 

Mob level is not the sole indicator of mob difficulty. Mob Level does not indicate the level at which you should be able to kill the mob. It is an indicator of what level a player should be at to attempt the encounter style. When analyzing this, you need to look at the total situation. A group of four mobs isn't necessarily a harder fight than a single mob at the same level. In most cases, it will be an easier fight. At the same time, a single Elite mob in the open world is going to be way easier than a single Elite mob in a Heroic-4. Being in a Heroic-4 means that all of the encounters are expected to be more difficult. Even Weak enemies in a Heroic-4 are going to be more difficult than Weak enemies in the open world.

 

Mob Rank also has a bigger effect than many new players realize. The difference between a Weak Level 10 mob and a WeaK Level 14 mob is minor. However, the difference between a Weak Level 10 mob and an Elite Level 10 mob is considerable. If you're Level 10, you should be able to dive right into a group of Weak Level 10 mobs. However, you'll want to buff up, wait for your cooldowns, and plan for an encounter with a Level 10 Elite.

 

For an extreme version: SD-0 (Coruscant World Boss) is Level 16 (18?). I guarantee you won't be soloing him at Level 25. I've seen groups of 15 level 18 characters try to kill him and fail multiple times. You usually need either an enormous group, or at least a couple Level 30+ characters to kill him. Lesson: Mob Level is not the sole indicator of difficulty.

 

Next, Heroic-4 missions say that you should play with 4 players. They don't just say this to try and help you make friends. The missions are balanced with the assumption that there are four real players, with multiple sources of high damage, healing, and/or CC. In most cases, it's actually easier to complete a Heroic-4 with four slightly-underleveled players than with just one greatly-overleveled player. Math supports this: Four weaker players still have more hitpoints, do more damage, and can fire off more abilities than one stronger player.

 

Last: There are many different types of Heroic missions. Some of them make you face groups of one or two very strong mobs. Some of them make you face waves of five to seven strong mobs. Each class/playstyle will situations that are easier than others (Examples: There is a Heroic-4 on Tatooine that can be completed by two Advanced Classes without killing a facing a single mob, and another on Balmorra[Rep] that you can complete by killing two groups of three Strong/Silver mobs). Locust is going to throw waves of many Elites at you, and for a single player, you're going to have problems, particularly because of the healers who appear after fighting begins.

 

I know a lot of new players see that the enemies are Level 18 and they are Level 22 and think (somehow) that they should have no problem killing all of them, regardless of number, rank, or special abilities. That's not the case. Put simply: The mobs in Locust are balanced with the assumption that there are four players of that level in a group. If there's only one of you, you're doing less than a third of the expected damage, and with much less utility abilities to help out. It's going to be hard. In most cases, I find that I can run Heroic-2's solo at 5-6 levels over the quest level. For Heroic-4's, I often have to be 9+ levels over (depending on encounter types), and even then, I may have to use escapes, heroic moments, and other such abilities to complete them.