ninjonxb Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) Maybe I am in a minority but I love puzzles in games. It is one of the reasons I love games like Zelda and Half Life. I find that (for the most part) the puzzle encounters in operations in this game are my favorite encounters. They make each time you go into an encounter a little different and (depending on the fight) makes it easier to find your weakest link when it comes to following mechanics. I am sad at how few there are though in operations and how basically non-existant they are in flashpoints. I would love for there to be an Operation/Flashpoint that is one large/full of puzzle encounters. My only complaint about some of them (Olok is the exception to this) is that most of them, once you figure them out do not change much. They all (except g4-b3 which stays the exact same) change in some way to potentially make it harder or easier based on the puzzle but most do not change as much as I would love. Maybe I am the exception in the raiders that I think the puzzles are the most fun and I think a great place for incredible dynamic encounters, but I hope I am not. Edited July 25, 2013 by ninjonxb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icebergy Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Personally I think the puzzle bosses are a great change of pace and I hope they keep adding one per Op. Only problem is that they are a bit of a PUG killer, so maybe they should be disabled in GF or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjonxb Posted July 25, 2013 Author Share Posted July 25, 2013 Personally I think the puzzle bosses are a great change of pace and I hope they keep adding one per Op. Only problem is that they are a bit of a PUG killer, so maybe they should be disabled in GF or something. I agree pug and puzzle really don't go together. (however the same could be said for some of the mechanics in non-puzzle s&v but whatever) but than again I don't pug ops. I would love to see an operation that was not in group finder and the puzzles could be "harder" in the sense that they don't need to be toned down for a pug to somewhat easily do them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 I like the puzzles as well. I was pretty shocked though that so far I can only remember one (maybe two) people who were familiar with the Towers of Hanoi before doing KP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inflicktion Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Awhile back they mentioned adventure type flashpoints that were presumably meant to be more puzzle-based and everything. Whatever happened to those though is anyone's guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorAndy Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 I believe I saw that the new Czerka Corp FPs have puzzles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjonxb Posted July 25, 2013 Author Share Posted July 25, 2013 I like the puzzles as well. I was pretty shocked though that so far I can only remember one (maybe two) people who were familiar with the Towers of Hanoi before doing KP. Yeah it is surprising. Even more funny since the tower of hanoi is a staple of bioware games. Just based on the few replies, maybe I am not in the minority for how much I like the puzzle fights and hopefully bioware realizes that and does not stop making them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLynkes Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 The second of the Macrobinocular heroics that end the quest has a nice puzzly bit. Did it with a semi-pug (two guildies and two random blokes picked up off the street). I enjoyed it rather a lot, even though I am pretty rubbish at that type of thing. In fact, those two Heroics when put together felt more like a Flashpoint than an Heroic, and they were a really nice change from the usual fare (the flying traffic chase was great fun, too). I hope more stuff like that comes up in future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjonxb Posted July 25, 2013 Author Share Posted July 25, 2013 The second of the Macrobinocular heroics that end the quest has a nice puzzly bit. Did it with a semi-pug (two guildies and two random blokes picked up off the street). I enjoyed it rather a lot, even though I am pretty rubbish at that type of thing. In fact, those two Heroics when put together felt more like a Flashpoint than an Heroic, and they were a really nice change from the usual fare (the flying traffic chase was great fun, too). I hope more stuff like that comes up in future. It was very fun, not exactly what I would call a puzzle (more just a jumping challenge) but still very fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilora Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 In fact, those two Heroics when put together felt more like a Flashpoint than an Heroic, and they were a really nice change from the usual fare (the flying traffic chase was great fun, too). I hope more stuff like that comes up in future. The flying traffic chase was literally my favorite part of the entire RotHC Expac. It was great to have something so different, fun, and realistic (as far as the SW universe goes) to do that wasn't just fighting NPCs. I feel like puzzles are partly necessary to keep things interesting and keep replayability up. If they could manage puzzles AND some level of randomization (removing the ability to "plan" out something, taking away scripts from encounters) -- I feel it would massively increase the replayability of the game. Which, honestly, is one of the most important things in an MMO. If TFB bosses had different mechanics each time? Or if the bosses themselves rotated around? Or anything crazy like that -- how many people would truly be upset about running it for a few months? For me, it would last longer than the scripted fights do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLynkes Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) It was very fun, not exactly what I would call a puzzle (more just a jumping challenge) but still very fun. Yeah, I just mentioned the chase part in passing because it was also fun, and something a bit different from the norm. But the puzzle bit I was referring to is where you need four people to do various stuff to progress. I was the guy who went into the droid production line tunnels, I understood from the chat that the others were messing around with gas rooms and various other things. Then shortly after you have to figure out how to activate a light-bridge, which while not exactly rocket science, was a little puzzly. The most I've ever laughed in SWTOR was when one of the party switched off the light-bridge while the rest of us were on it fighting the big droid "to see what would happen." Ah, fun times. All in all a great bit of fun, those two Heroics. Edited July 25, 2013 by PLynkes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leene Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Yeah it is surprising. Even more funny since the tower of hanoi is a staple of bioware games. There even was one such puzzle in one of the KotOR games. Don't remember which one though. I am a fan of puzzles as well. But more in single player mode to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGSThomas Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Puzzles confuse the mouth breathers. Therefore, they must stay out of theme park MMOs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterBlackJack Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 The second of the Macrobinocular heroics that end the quest has a nice puzzly bit. Did it with a semi-pug (two guildies and two random blokes picked up off the street). I enjoyed it rather a lot, even though I am pretty rubbish at that type of thing. In fact, those two Heroics when put together felt more like a Flashpoint than an Heroic, and they were a really nice change from the usual fare (the flying traffic chase was great fun, too). I hope more stuff like that comes up in future. I agree the "Shroud Reveal" was one of the most fun and frustrating Missions I have ever done in the game. When completing it I felt there should have been a 69 drop somewhere cause it truely felt like a flashpoint. A really good one like Colicoid War Game. The whole questline was fun and had puzzles to figure out throughout the questline. Matter of fact all 3 Heroics "Uprooting the Last Seed (Republic)" "Dark Design" and "The Shroud Reveal" were to me the best part of RotHC expansion. I hope bioware makes more Heroics or even flashpoints like them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterBlackJack Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 The flying traffic chase was literally my favorite part of the entire RotHC Expac. It was great to have something so different, fun, and realistic (as far as the SW universe goes) to do that wasn't just fighting NPCs. I feel like puzzles are partly necessary to keep things interesting and keep replayability up. If they could manage puzzles AND some level of randomization (removing the ability to "plan" out something, taking away scripts from encounters) -- I feel it would massively increase the replayability of the game. Which, honestly, is one of the most important things in an MMO. If TFB bosses had different mechanics each time? Or if the bosses themselves rotated around? Or anything crazy like that -- how many people would truly be upset about running it for a few months? For me, it would last longer than the scripted fights do. Dark Design, the flying traffic chase misson, reminded me of the Ord Mantell Junkyard mission in SoTE (Shadows of the Empire) for those that remember that game. As well as the Correllian Tram chase mission in Jedi Academy. Used the same music from that was in both of those missions as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hessen Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Puzzle Pirates should be the template for all MMOs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamman Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Maybe I am in a minority but I love puzzles in games. It is one of the reasons I love games like Zelda and Half Life. I find that (for the most part) the puzzle encounters in operations in this game are my favorite encounters. They make each time you go into an encounter a little different and (depending on the fight) makes it easier to find your weakest link when it comes to following mechanics. I am sad at how few there are though in operations and how basically non-existant they are in flashpoints. I would love for there to be an Operation/Flashpoint that is one large/full of puzzle encounters. My only complaint about some of them (Olok is the exception to this) is that most of them, once you figure them out do not change much. They all (except g4-b3 which stays the exact same) change in some way to potentially make it harder or easier based on the puzzle but most do not change as much as I would love. Maybe I am the exception in the raiders that I think the puzzles are the most fun and I think a great place for incredible dynamic encounters, but I hope I am not. I half agree with you. I love puzzles. RPG's and Adventure Games with puzzles are some of my favorite things. But what I disagree with is having them in group content. I prefer puzzles in solo content, where I can pit my problem solving skills and intelligence in deducing said puzzle. In a group content like a Flashpoint, especially Operations, one has to also rely on the intellectual capacity of your teammates and/or their ability to follow directions. Also, half the fun I have with puzzles is trying to figure out the puzzle solution, in a raid you don't have that luxury, since someone in the group almost always already knows the solution. Exception of course is, if you're in the PTS and testing out a new FP or Ops with all first timers, but even then it's a group effort, and the puzzles mostly require multiple people. I guess I just like solving puzzles on my own and having fun challenging myself, you can't really do that in a group environment in MMO's. It's mostly just a group coordination thing, rather than solving a puzzle (I prefer the latter). Don't get me wrong, I do like "some" dynamic encounters and boss fights in group content, but I just don't get the same enjoyment that I would have in solving a puzzle on my own. So... yeah I love puzzles, but I would prefer if they placed them more into solo quests and less on Flashpoints and Raids. When it comes to puzzles, I prefer actually solving the puzzle on my own. Because what happens during puzzle bosses in Flashpoints and Ops where someone is giving directions to the solution isn't really puzzle solving, it's group coordination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuixupu Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 I enjoy the puzzles as well. In guild or solo they are no problem. What I don't enjoy is running a full pug and you ask "ok, who knows this?" and everyone else is like "I don't, first time here". And then you hang your head in saddness knowing you will have to explain it and it'll take several wipes before people really figure it out, if they do at all. For groups where NO ONE knows it, it is probably going to be a raid breaker. Fabricator is probably the only one where this happens, though. To make things worse, usually there is someone that THINKS they understand it and explains it wrong, and you have to fight with them to show them they are wrong while they blame everyone else for the first few wipes. So yeah, lots of pain with this boss, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjonxb Posted July 25, 2013 Author Share Posted July 25, 2013 I enjoy the puzzles as well. In guild or solo they are no problem. What I don't enjoy is running a full pug and you ask "ok, who knows this?" and everyone else is like "I don't, first time here". And then you hang your head in saddness knowing you will have to explain it and it'll take several wipes before people really figure it out, if they do at all. For groups where NO ONE knows it, it is probably going to be a raid breaker. Fabricator is probably the only one where this happens, though. To make things worse, usually there is someone that THINKS they understand it and explains it wrong, and you have to fight with them to show them they are wrong while they blame everyone else for the first few wipes. So yeah, lots of pain with this boss, lol. While I agree with this. I also have problems with designing operations about being able to pug them. Yeah this i why we have HM and NiM but that transition may not be enough if the basic design of the fight is still based on how they had to design SM so it was puggable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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