Want some UI support for dotspecs? Sign here!!

[colemanron]

Edit: Let me make my points and suggestions clear, and more easy to see, as some may not read the post all the way through. See my explanations, reasons and general elaboration below.

 

1. Making a tool, that helps players tell apart their own hots/dots from other players' of the same kind

2. Making uptiem left on hots/dots/debuffs visible

3. Adding HP text to Focus Target and possibly adding a Focus Target's target frame

4. Would love to see devs chiming in, and letting us know if the above features will be added, or what is the reason behind not having them

 

 

I have been playing this game since it's realease, most of the time as a sorcerer, and I have found it unbelievably annoying in many situations, that the UI lacks numerous functions I believe should be fairly easy to implement, and important to have on the UI for the sake of players being able to play at their absolute best.

 

Namely I am talking about a kind of utility that could help players tell apart their own dots/hots from other players dots/hots of the same kind. I don't think not having a tool that makes one's own dot/hot icons bigger or flashy or making other players' debuffs of the same kind simply not show up would take away from the amount of skill that is required to play a certain spec, especially since that kind of "skillcheck" is limited to players who are grouped with others using the same class. I can imagine the intention behind it is to make people want to use different classes in their groups, but as long as non-dotspecs are not penalized for being stacked, dotters should'nt be either. If you want to make raidleaders stop stacking snipers/marauders, it may be a better option to give other classes some kind of raidwide buffs too, similar to bloodthirst and ballistic shield. And if not that, as it may ruin balance, let me add, this issue is not stopping them from stacking the same classes anyway. My point is: don't penalize stacking, but reward variety.

 

Also i think not having uptime text on hots/dots is something that should be changed. While I can see why most specs of most classes are not really worried about that, as you don't want to clip dots anyway, so you simply put them back up when they fall off, there are some, that could benefit greatly from adding an option like that. The two I have experience playing is the operative healer and the lightning sorcerer. I don't think it's a great skillcheck, to make players guess if the uptime left on affliction is 1.6 or 2.1 seconds while the only indication they are getting is the line getting close to the bottom of the icon, and decide if they still have the time to finish the cast of a thundering blast. The same goes for the stacking hots of the operative, and maybe other classes that I have less experience playing. In my opinion, it'd not be a change, that was to make the above specs require less skill to play, but it may make them more fluid, more consistent and precise with less wild guesses, and less missed heal/damage.

 

Also while I'm at it, I would like to suggest some changes to the focus target of the game. I'd like to see health percentage on it with numbers instead of only a red bar, and a focus target's target feature would be very welcome by the community I believe. The latter may mostly be useful in pvp, but I think it could have a valid place in operations too in many situations.

 

Maybe it has been discuessed many times before, and we were given a reason why the aboves are the way they are. Maybe I'm just blind, and all of these features are in game already. Maybe I'm just stupid, and have'nt figured out a good way to go around them. But in any case I would like to hear some advices/ideas on the subject from the communiy. If I am right on these features not being in the game however, and you are missing it too, bump the thread please, to let the devs know, this is a cheap and simple way to make some of us happier.

 

And if it has'nt been discussed before, I would'nt mind seeing a yellow post explaining the reasons behind not having these features or if they will be implemented at some point.

Edited July 26, 2013 by colemanron
too long

[wainot-keel]

Regarding dots,I know you are asking for an in-game feature, but in the meantime, you could try torassistant. There you can set abilities and have a sound played after X number of seconds. I use it for my anni mara, and while only for the Rupture dot, still nice since I don't refresh it needessly, which would be a dps loss

[colemanron]

Thanks for chiming in, I will look into it. I am not sure however if using a program like that is "legal" according to the devs. Any info on this?

[AlrikFassbauer]

What is the sense of telling both Dots apart ?

[colemanron]

Not losing damage on possibly clipping it or missing uptime on it due to not knowing which one is yours when one of the dots fall off while the other is still up. At least that is the point i was trying to make in the OP.

[uniz]

if you are looking at the mob for your spell icons to see when to cast what in your rotation you have larger issues in this game than the ui.

[Leafy_Bug]

Well in a 16 man raid with 4 watchman spec sentinels, you can rest assured not even batman knows which overload saber dots are yours. Furthemore, since 2.0, cauterize dot gets jumbled between a plethora of other things and you lose track of that too. issues do not pertain only to 16 man, we roll two sents for our progression and we are both watchman. There are times when we both lose tracks of our dots because we don't know which is which when we need to hide or move.I want a feature to filter out all the dots and only show mine. Edited July 22, 2013 by Leafy_Bug

[colemanron]

if you are looking at the mob for your spell icons to see when to cast what in your rotation you have larger issues in this game than the ui.

 

Well it may be a L2P issue, but in that case I'd rather take an actual advice on how to improve from you or anyone else better than myself than just a post saying: "You're bad. L2P" Especially since I have'nt seen any guides around going into this specific issue in details yet.

 

Maybe you could write me (us?) one?

Edited July 23, 2013 by colemanron

[Leafy_Bug]

Well it may be a L2P issue, but in that case I'd rather take an actual advice on how to improve from you or anyone else better than myself than just a post saying: "You're bad. L2P" Especially since I have'nt seen any guides around going into this specific issue in details yet.

 

 

I do not view this as a l2p issue because sometimes a visual representation is better than a mental one. Granted, applying cauterize optimally requires me to wait 3 GCDs but as a raid leader, especially durning new content, I tend to focus on so many things and I reach a point of giving up something and this is efficiency in DPS. It would be easier for me to spot my dots and see the ticks, especially for overload, in order to time my damage.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Leafy_Bug

[Sameria]

I couldn't agree more. If anything, give us a filter on the current frame or a separate frame to show us our DOT/buffs/debuffs.

[Grimsblood]

Well in a 16 man raid with 4 watchman spec sentinels, you can rest assured not even batman knows which overload saber dots are yours. Furthemore, since 2.0, cauterize dot gets jumbled between a plethora of other things and you lose track of that too. issues do not pertain only to 16 man, we roll two sents for our progression and we are both watchman. There are times when we both lose tracks of our dots because we don't know which is which when we need to hide or move.I want a feature to filter out all the dots and only show mine.

 

.....You can't Clip Overload Saber.............................................It is a stacking/refreshing DoT. As far as cauterize: Cauterize --> Merc Slash --> 3 Seconds --> Cauterize (Your timing is built in to the rotation). The only Dot Spec in game that does not have a built in (rotational) tracker is the Sage/Sorc with Weaken Mind.

[Falver]

/signed

Not because I really care which one is mine but rather because I don't care about the ones that aren't, except for armor debuffs.

[Berjiz]

.....You can't Clip Overload Saber.............................................It is a stacking/refreshing DoT. As far as cauterize: Cauterize --> Merc Slash --> 3 Seconds --> Cauterize (Your timing is built in to the rotation). The only Dot Spec in game that does not have a built in (rotational) tracker is the Sage/Sorc with Weaken Mind.

 

Umm, their are a lot more dots than that which can overlap. Just from the top of my head there is:

 

-Discharge(madness assasin, darkness assasin)

-Wither(darkness assain, you want to use it on all cds anyway though)

-Creeping terror(madness asssasin and sorc)

-Crushing darkness(madness assains and sorc, only about a seconds overlap possible though)

-Rupture(anni maurder)

 

And thats only 3 acs.

 

The ones with the biggest problem is creeping terror, discharge and similair which have much longer duration than cd. For some as you say(like rupture) it isn't that big problem since their is a "clock" in the rotation itself.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Berjiz

[Rahizm]

Multiple people with the same specs applying the same DOT can be really confusing, therefore I will /sign this.

[Jurugu]

You can't Clip Overload Saber

But you might want to know exactly when it has reached 3 stacks so you time your Zen correctly.

 

Sure, that also can be tracked by counting your attacks yourself, but I can see why someone would want to be able to easier keep track of it.

[uniz]

Well it may be a L2P issue, but in that case I'd rather take an actual advice on how to improve from you or anyone else better than myself than just a post saying: "You're bad. L2P" Especially since I have'nt seen any guides around going into this specific issue in details yet.

 

Maybe you could write me (us?) one?

 

originally i had a paragraph about timing in a rotation. you quickly learn this when going through your rotation. for most mmo players it is rather intuitive so i decided to leave it out and opted for brevity. i forgot how times have changed with the addon generation mmos now have. besides for optimal dps for the class you will be looking at your procs rather than the two weak dots you are fixated on applying.

 

as a inqusitor or even a sage you only have 3 dots if speced fully in the third tree which you wont for pve end game as you will have force regen issues. so you need to only keep track of two dots in the hybrid spec. but again why would you want too?

 

back to timing in your rotation. on a training dummy go through your rotation and notice when you have to reapply your dots. you should find out that you will have to reapply after so many abilities cast and then recast it. this is now part of your long rotation. also it is useful to know this as your procs will govern what you will cast and when. for any movement you just subtract from your rotation the moving times. with experience you will get rather good at this. it is all about timing. timing isn't just used in this mmo but rather most others out there now. sadly yourself isn't the only player that hasn't learned this as addons and one button rotation macros have really hurt players from learning such. neither are allowed in this game.

 

i learned timing back in eq1 when we had 72 man raids. even in the 40, 24 and 20 man raids you just couldn't look at the boss's icons as they where flying all over the place. one mmo had a limit of 30 being shown at a time making it pointless to even look at it as they were constantly being added on and replaced off. we quickly learned timing as addons were not yet made. now for many of us addons are not needed.

 

hopefully this is of some help.

[OlosBC]

I've not experienced any force regency issues playing as full madness sorc(unless I decide to spam shock on cool down like a moron). However, crushing darkness duration is shorter than cool down, so it's still only 2 dots.

 

Hybrid powertech has retractable blade and incendiary missile.

 

Lethality sniper has 3 dots I think, not sure how cool down/duration works though.

 

 

 

 

Anyway, if you want this, go download TorAssistant. Set it up to ping a sound X number of seconds after using specific abilities.

[colemanron]

originally i had a paragraph about timing in a rotation. you quickly learn this when going through your rotation. for most mmo players it is rather intuitive so i decided to leave it out and opted for brevity. i forgot how times have changed with the addon generation mmos now have. besides for optimal dps for the class you will be looking at your procs rather than the two weak dots you are fixated on applying.

 

as a inqusitor or even a sage you only have 3 dots if speced fully in the third tree which you wont for pve end game as you will have force regen issues. so you need to only keep track of two dots in the hybrid spec. but again why would you want too?

 

back to timing in your rotation. on a training dummy go through your rotation and notice when you have to reapply your dots. you should find out that you will have to reapply after so many abilities cast and then recast it. this is now part of your long rotation. also it is useful to know this as your procs will govern what you will cast and when. for any movement you just subtract from your rotation the moving times. with experience you will get rather good at this. it is all about timing. timing isn't just used in this mmo but rather most others out there now. sadly yourself isn't the only player that hasn't learned this as addons and one button rotation macros have really hurt players from learning such. neither are allowed in this game.

 

i learned timing back in eq1 when we had 72 man raids. even in the 40, 24 and 20 man raids you just couldn't look at the boss's icons as they where flying all over the place. one mmo had a limit of 30 being shown at a time making it pointless to even look at it as they were constantly being added on and replaced off. we quickly learned timing as addons were not yet made. now for many of us addons are not needed.

 

hopefully this is of some help.

 

 

 

This was'nt much of a help, and let me clarify why.

 

The uptime of affliction is 18 seconds, and that equals 12 GCDs by default. That is not very short, in that amount of time anyone (i presume not even you will say excluding yourself) can lose track of that dot, when stuff starts happening in the fight you are in. For example movement, target switching. etc. Btw if I might add: affliction is #1 priority for any sorcerer dps spec, so it's vital not to clip or lose uptime on it for anyone aiming for maximum dps.

 

A lightning sorc has two 2 second cast time ability, which's cast may be broken or delayed due to mechanics coming along the way, so then they will have to be recasted, as both are high priority abilities. So we are not speaking about simply 12 GCDs, it can be more or less too. On top of that comes alacrity, which changes the length of both cast times and GCDs, shortening them, so even with the minimal amount sorc dps is supposed to have it will add another factor to deal with - you are right though, one can get used to this fairly easily. There is a passive alacrity proc from the set bonus however and a 20% alacrity CD, which's cooldown decreases every time a forked lightning procs, and that makes things more complicated.

 

At this point i believe we are pretty far from talking about a static rotation. So even though i don't doubt numerous players can deal with this, and don't even need to look at the debuffs on the boss, i think you can see the debuffs on them, because you are meant to look at them. And I must admit, I don't particularly care about eq1 72 man raids, swtor only has 8/16, and that's the game, I'm palying.

 

There is one more machanic, that makes affliction's uptime left vital to know. Assuming you can tell apart your dot from everyone else's, when affliction is about to fall off you will still have to know if you have enough time to cast thundering blast, as it's crit chance is 100% as long, as you have your dot up. You also have to take into account, that due to momental alacrity it's cast time may differ, while players don't have a way of actually knowing how much time they have left to finish the cast. And often the end of TB's cd and affliction's uptime fall very close to each other, making it into a non-trivial decision to make in my eyes. So if you want to create a guide, please go into that one in detail.

 

Now knowing the latter mechanic, and knowing how more than one source of alacrity is coming in at non-preset points of you rotation, I think you can agree with me on the point that many players could benefit from having those tiny tools I suggested above at their disposal, as often it comes down to tenth of seconds, which for some of us (I certainly fkin hope I'm not alone with this lol) is hard to track using only brainpower. It's especially true when stuff is going on in an operation, and lag often jumps into the equation too, spicing it up a bit.

 

Also let me tell you: this is the first MMO I really play, so i never played one that has addons. I have always found the above issues a pain in the arse however, and after recently trying Rift, and seeing it has these features by default (yes, i know Rift supports addon, and no, I'm not using any) i thought I'd post on the forums, to see if others would be happy to see the tools I suggested in the OP in SWTOR too, and possibly getting an answer in a yellow post, explaining if dealing with the above issues is intentional for the class(es) providing the type of gameplay they do, or if we can expect to see some of the suggested features ingame in the near future.

Edited July 23, 2013 by colemanron

[colemanron]

Anyway, if you want this, go download TorAssistant. Set it up to ping a sound X number of seconds after using specific abilities.

 

Thank for the advice, someone else also sugested it above, I downloaded but have'nt used it yet, as I am not sure if it is approved by Bioware. Have you or anyone else got info on this?

Edited July 23, 2013 by colemanron

[OlosBC]

Thank for the advice, someone else also sugested it above, I downloaded but have'nt used it yet, as I am not sure if it is approved by Bioware to use it. Have you or anyone else got info on this?

 

Short of hacking into your computer, bio ware would have no way of knowing that you are using the program. It does not really interface with the game in any way, much like MOX or TORparse.

 

Of course, it doesn't really tell you how much time is left, for the aff/tb issue, and only tells you when it falls off.

[dipstik]

for many specs the tor assistant works, but for specs with procs relating to dot, there is no tool. also, the combat logs are only updated every 2-4 seconds, so programs are unable to provide meaningful real time indicators based on logs.

[oofalong]

But you might want to know exactly when it has reached 3 stacks so you time your Zen correctly.

 

Sure, that also can be tracked by counting your attacks yourself, but I can see why someone would want to be able to easier keep track of it.

 

You should activate Zen/Berserk prior to reaching 3 stacks. If the Cauterize/Rupture DoT is applied wait 2 GCDs after applying Overload/Deadly Saber, if it is not up then no need to wait at all.

 

This way you should be getting all three 3-stacks to crit, and one 2-stack. You should be indifferent to 1 stack crits vs. Rupture/Cauterize DoT crits.

[dbears]

/signed

 

Could definitely use dot AAAAND hot tracking. My main is an Agent healer and if I'm running with another Agent healer(s) it can be difficult to tell our Kolto Probes apart. It would be ideal to have a list of all the dots/hots for each class and be able to check off which ones you want to see/hide. Or the option to only show your dots/hots.

 

Having the flytext work properly and actually show buffs gained/losses wouldn't hurt either lol. Staring at your buffs bar or staring at your character looking for animations that represent a buff is brutal.

[XeroVeritas]

I will sign as well! Not that it affects me all that much as I main a Gunnery Commando, but I am all for anything that aids in overall raid efficiency! Personally, I don't need to see any debuffs on the enemies and I kinda wish they only put mine up to eliminate confusion.

[DarthSpekulatius]

Umm, their are a lot more dots than that which can overlap. Just from the top of my head there is:

 

-Discharge(madness assasin, darkness assasin)

-Wither(darkness assain, you want to use it on all cds anyway though)

-Creeping terror(madness asssasin and sorc)

-Crushing darkness(madness assains and sorc, only about a seconds overlap possible though)

-Rupture(anni maurder)

 

And thats only 3 acs.

 

The ones with the biggest problem is creeping terror, discharge and similair which have much longer duration than cd. For some as you say(like rupture) it isn't that big problem since their is a "clock" in the rotation itself.

 

-the discharge Debuff for darkness assassins doesn't stack with other Peoples Accuracy Debuff

so if the Icon is there don't use Discharge on Single targets that's easy to track.

-wither is used on CD

-Crushing darkness for Sorcs has a Longer CD then the DOT duration and for Assassins it's very minor (and with its short Duration it's easy to keep track of)

 

Discharge & Creeping terror on the other hand are pure Horror if there are even two Madness Sins.

(these two DOT's are 25% of the Madness Assassin Damage)

only solution (without using artificial help) is really counting and drill drill drill until whatever fingers you use to activate the Two abilities tick exactly every 18.2sec no matter what you are doing at that moment.

 

luckily no one plays Madness assassins if you ever have 2 at the same time in your 16men Raid group, make a Screenshot and mark the day with a red cycle in your Calendar.

and they aren't bothered by Sages because the Discharge symbol is unique for that Spec+AC

(:confused:at least that's true for shadow Force breach I'm actually not sure about our Imperial Brothers)

and if everything else fails Discharge & Creeping terror can be sticked to FIB-CD if you can't keep track,

you'll lose a few hundred DPS but who cares

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thread has 5/5 from me