Pay to Win

[LordArtemis]

I can't see how mailing to alts would benefit gold sellers. Naturally that doesn't mean there isn't some way it could...if someone could point it to me I would appreciate it.

 

Right now that is the most draconian restriction in place IMO...I can see restricting mail to other players and support that. Mailing to other characters on the same account though? That seems more punitive than protective to me.

[hadoken]

I can't see how mailing to alts would benefit gold sellers. Naturally that doesn't mean there isn't some way it could...if someone could point it to me I would appreciate it.

 

Right now that is the most draconian restriction in place IMO...I can see restricting mail to other players and support that. Mailing to other characters on the same account though? That seems more punitive than protective to me.

 

IMO the entire free to play setup is designed to be punitive compared to subscribers to get them to do precisely that: subscribe

 

I don't approve of the business model but it's pretty clear to me that's their goal. Nobody with half a brain could get any real enjoyment or satisfaction out of the free to play portion of this game. Not compared to being a subscriber.

[LordArtemis]

Though I think that the subscription is appealing for obvious reasons I don't think it is appealing enough YET to really encourage folks to STAY subbed. Not to mention the fact that the F2P model here is one of the most draconian in the market (but not the worst mind you) and could be more friendly to new players.

 

I believe it is close to what it needs to be. But these are the adjustments that I think need to be made.

 

Subscription

 

Milestone reward program similar to CoH or SWG, that rewards for total subscription time, presenting unique rewards at different intervals.

 

Ability to summon group members to your location on the same planet as group leader...does not work in instances or in PVP areas.

 

Legacy presence boost, 10 point boost every 5 legacy levels.

 

Speed boosts work when mounted.

 

Preferred

 

Legacy mail, ability to mail to your alts unrestricted.

 

Legacy cargo bank, ability to unlock additional slots and EC bank that can be shared across all legacy members.

 

F2P

 

Ability to purchase unlocks for one week regular prices, regular XP, regular rewards, quick travel, medical droids, fleet pass. One month flashpoints, operations.

[Grayseven]

I can't see how mailing to alts would benefit gold sellers. Naturally that doesn't mean there isn't some way it could...if someone could point it to me I would appreciate it.

 

Right now that is the most draconian restriction in place IMO...I can see restricting mail to other players and support that. Mailing to other characters on the same account though? That seems more punitive than protective to me.

 

I'm not certain how tracking is done in MMO's, but I can hazard a guess based on the way other MMO's have responded to gold farmers and how that had an effect on players "caught up in the sweep".

 

If EA/BW tracked every single transaction they would eat up huge amounts of hardware power. Much like RADAR has filters set into it such as size and speed (in order to not track a train or flock of geese, for example, while still catching low flying planes) a tracking program probably looks for patterns of transactions and the amount of a transaction and only keys on certain parameters that would indicate gold farming.

 

Gold farmers with unlimited mailing abilities to alts would be able to mail smaller amounts to throw-away alts and have those alts transfer those smaller amounts to another account for further dispersal or to players. To further muddy the waters they could delete the alts as soon as a transaction takes place and create a new one which might make tracking more difficult.

 

Only EA/BW knows the particulars of their data collection systems, so we can't be certain, but I can imagine a number of ways that free accounts mailing to alts could be used in an attempt to circumvent tracking software.

[Andryah]

The cool down on chat and restrictions on the ability to mail to alts is more about circumventing gold farmer practices. If they were lifted there would be an impact on all players since gold farmer practices affect us all.

 

They may seem petty, but for subscriptions to be encouraged there has to be limits on free players and this game does a good job of allowing players access to the game free of charge while making subscriptions attractive.

 

Absolutely correct.

 

Ultimately, players will have to make a decision. Are they able to fully enjoy the game free or at a reduced rate through Cartel Market purchases, or would a subscription offer more?

 

Yeah. The fact that so many subscribers complain about the F2P restrictions just exemplifies that what they want is sub access at F2P prices.

 

Could they get any more greedy and self-indulgent as players? It's ironic that these same people label Bioware as "greedy"

[Andryah]

I can't see how mailing to alts would benefit gold sellers. Naturally that doesn't mean there isn't some way it could...if someone could point it to me I would appreciate it.

 

It's not about mailing to alts, it's about mailing to another character.. PERIOD.

 

Bioware simply has not bothered to add code to parse mailing restrictions based on character affiliation to an account rather then account status.

 

I'm sure they could, but there is no business motivation to do so. What?.... the F2P players are going to take their money elsewhere or something?

 

Now.. a gold farming operation could actually use unrestricted mailing on a single account to launder credits/items multiple times to make it harder for analytics to track said items/credits down. So while I don't think that would be the most effective method for them to do so, I also would not underestimate their inventiveness and willingness to do so.

Edited July 31, 2013 by Andryah

[hadoken]

It's not about mailing to alts, it's about mailing to another character.. PERIOD.

 

Bioware simply has not bothered to add code to parse mailing restrictions based on character affiliation to an account rather then account status.

 

I'm sure they could, but there is no business motivation to do so. What?.... the F2P players are going to take their money elsewhere or something?

 

I'm not sure that's true, as you can only mail to the other faction if they're in your legacy (and thus on your account). Some form of that exists.

[Andryah]

I'm not sure that's true, as you can only mail to the other faction if they're in your legacy (and thus on your account). Some form of that exists.

 

That coding =/= coding for account status + affiliation within account.

 

More coding would be required, even though parts of the routine might exist in other parts of the code base.

[Grayseven]

I don't think the coding matters. What matters is that F2P is going to have restrictions and those restrictions are going to encourage subscription or purchases in the CM as well as have some protections against those who would use F2P accounts for nefarious ends.

 

Personally, I think F2P is too easy. I don't think F2P should be able to buy unlocks on the GTN and should instead be forced to buy them through CC themselves. This is, of course, just my opinion as I see F2P as a pimple on the backside of MMO's. It might make MMO's more successful but it also appears to remove some of the pressure on MMO makers to actually make a good game that draws players in and keeps them.

 

IMO, F2P is a crutch for developers.

[ElitehunterDS]

I don't think the coding matters. What matters is that F2P is going to have restrictions and those restrictions are going to encourage subscription or purchases in the CM as well as have some protections against those who would use F2P accounts for nefarious ends.

 

Personally, I think F2P is too easy. I don't think F2P should be able to buy unlocks on the GTN and should instead be forced to buy them through CC themselves. This is, of course, just my opinion as I see F2P as a pimple on the backside of MMO's. It might make MMO's more successful but it also appears to remove some of the pressure on MMO makers to actually make a good game that draws players in and keeps them.

 

IMO, F2P is a crutch for developers.

The irony is that i find the restriction not too bad enough for me to still pay a sub, not to mention no content that i got with my sub since... well.. 1.7? (i dont count recycled content as content, sorry) No class balance except every 6-9 months, F2P restriction arent that bad when you look at it, doesnt mean i will play tho, nothing to keep my attention on the game anymore.

Edited July 31, 2013 by ElitehunterDS

[SuperGrunt]

Well, it does automagically allow you to wear Purple level gear mods.

 

Actually as someone who spent almost 2 months as Preferred I can state with confidence that there is an Unlock that allows you to always wear that gear. People that want to make money and have more disposable income tend to buy some Cartel Coins and sell the stuff from it on the GTN. Go to the GTN, look at the Cartel Market > Unlocks and search for Artifact Authorization. I bought a single character one for my Sorc for less than 100k credits, and then when I saved up some money on my Merc got some Escrow Transfer items and bought the Account Wide version for about 650k if I remember correctly.

[DarthTHC]

You know, there might be something to this "Pay to Win" thing after all...

 

I mean, I paid for the game and then I've paid for a subscription ever since the game went live and I'd say I've "won" a bunch.

 

• I have completed all the stories for all the classes.
  
• I have a couple characters who can demolish any solo and H2 content the game has to offer.
  
• I have characters who can easily handle any HM FP in the game (with a non-brain-ded group of course).
  
• I have a crapton more credits than I'll ever need to spend.
  
• I had a lot of fun for ~18 months and counting.
  

 

I paid. I won. WHEE!

[SuperGrunt]

The irony is that i find the restriction not too bad enough for me to still pay a sub, not to mention no content that i got with my sub since... well.. 1.7? (i dont count recycled content as content, sorry) No class balance except every 6-9 months, F2P restriction arent that bad when you look at it, doesnt mean i will play tho, nothing to keep my attention on the game anymore.

 

No class balance? Ok not sure if you mean that there are too many of one class running around or if you think that one class or another is OP, but it's not the Developers job to control the amount of any given class on any given server, and as to the class balance from a game play standard. This MMO has probably the most balanced classes in all of MMOs. If you need some examples I would be more than happy to explain my experiences with you.

 

RIFT : The new callings are far more powerful at just about every level, including Warriors getting Plate armor and instant Ranged Mage type abilities.

 

WoW : Warlocks are, and have been so OP it's not even funny, while Hunters a far more complex class to play have to be content with sub par DPS. One time Ghostcrawler even once acknowledged that Warlock was doing too much DPS, the patch notes the next day buffed Warlocks.

 

EVE Online : It takes about 2 months of logging in daily to queue up new skills to learn just to be useful at anything in a MMO without levels, and even when you do spend those 2 months of sucking after that you still have to realize that someone who started at launch and has played it safe with clones and such will have far more Skill Points than you will ever be able to get.

 

SWG : Yes it's no longer available but it's still in our hearts so I will include it here as well. The only part of it that was even close to balanced was Space. The ground game had a new Flavor of the Month Profession every month, and it was normally the one that was just buffed, and the profession that got debuffed, stay away from that one b/c you would have problems killing NPCs without a group.

Edited July 31, 2013 by SuperGrunt

[OldRepJedi]

 

Yeah. The fact that so many subscribers complain about the F2P restrictions just exemplifies that what they want is sub access at F2P prices.

 

Could they get any more greedy and self-indulgent as players? It's ironic that these same people label Bioware as "greedy"

 

This I agree with fully. f2p players get a taste of what the game is like with limited functions and the they want the whole thing for free. If you they feel it is that good...subscribe. They won't regret it.

[Drew_Braxton]

swtor definitely isn't pay to win. If you ever played evony, mobsters, or similar games and saw people drop $10,000 easy to become top dog, made man, etc then you know some restrictions, pay for fluff, and pay for style isn't anywhere close to pay to win.

 

I have always subscribed, but I have a tier 2 friend who plays on and off as a free to play and we've done just about everything together and he didn't have any complaints about restrictions on free players.

[Propane]

swtor definitely isn't pay to win. If you ever played evony, mobsters, or similar games and saw people drop $10,000 easy to become top dog, made man, etc then you know some restrictions, pay for fluff, and pay for style isn't anywhere close to pay to win.

 

I have always subscribed, but I have a tier 2 friend who plays on and off as a free to play and we've done just about everything together and he didn't have any complaints about restrictions on free players.

 

SWTOR pay for MMO aspects of the game. Otherwise you are a trial for the MMO parts.

 

As a Free player you get these amazing deals:

 

Pay to be able to use the best armor in the game.

PvP restrictions (you can pay to get more but still cannot participate in Ranked)

Pay for a reskinned human

Trial mode for Raids (you can pay to get more)

Trial mode for Flashpoints (you can pay to get more)

Pay to be able to quick travel (you can pay to get more)

Pay to be able to get something out of the Customer Support (F2Pers' only customer support is the FAQ section)

Pay to be able to expand your inventory (because F2Pers have to pay with Cartel Coins instead of creds.)

Pay to be able to sell and craft efficiently.

Pay to be able to use a secure trade.

Pay to be able to get past 200k creds.

Pay to level faster (exp scales faster with subs)

 

 

No excuse me while I reap the rewards of buying the game $60 at launch (while being a tester) PREMIUM MODE!!!

These are my rewards for supporting EA and SWTOR:

 

PvP restrictions (you can pay to get more but still cannot participate in Ranked)

Pay for a reskinned human

Trial mode for Raids (you can pay to get more)

Trial mode for Flashpoints (you can pay to get more)

Pay to be able to quick travel (you can pay to get more)

Pay to be able to get something out of the Customer Support (F2Pers' only customer support is the FAQ section)

Pay to be able to expand your inventory (because F2Pers have to pay with Cartel Coins instead of creds.)

Pay to be able to sell and craft efficiently.

Pay to be able to use a secure trade.

Pay to be able to get past 200k creds.

Pay to level faster (exp scales faster with subs)

 

Good thing I got that founders title, that I can't even use until I continue to support EA again.

Edited July 31, 2013 by Propane

[chuixupu]

Congratulations, you now understand why subscribing is better. At least until you save up enough credits to buy all the unlocks and then drop down. If you're not a raider you can play on the cheap pretty easily. Edited July 31, 2013 by chuixupu

[Propane]

Congratulations, you know understand why subscribing is better. At least until you save up enough credits to buy all the unlocks and then drop down. If you're not a raider you can play on the cheap pretty easily.

 

Go 1-50 without paying for anything unsubbed - go tell me how much fun you are having.

 

When you are unsubbed make sure you come back here and post your progress! Oh wait...

[Propane]

"Just Pay to avoid the onslaught of restrictions."

 

/logic

 

Well they have a point, EAware isn't going to change this anytime soon - they don't give 1 single molecule of **** of how their customers feel. And the players of SWTOR leave NO criticism, it's always - this model is perfect and has 0% flaws!

 

 

RIP Consumer Rights

Edited July 31, 2013 by Propane

[chuixupu]

Go 1-50 without paying for anything unsubbed - go tell me how much fun you are having.

 

When you are unsubbed make sure you come back here and post your progress! Oh wait...

 

 

Congratulations, you now understand why subscribing is better.

 

Edited July 31, 2013 by chuixupu

[Propane]

Congratulations, you now understand why subscribing is better. At least until you save up enough credits to buy all the unlocks and then drop down. If you're not a raider you can play on the cheap pretty easily.

 

Go 1-50 without paying for anything unsubbed - go tell me how much fun you are having.

 

Congratulations, you now understand why subscribing is better.

 

"Just Pay to avoid the onslaught of restrictions."

 

/logic

 

 

 

 

Welcome to the TorTanic all!

Edited August 1, 2013 by Propane

[chuixupu]

Exactly. Why pay a bunch of micro-transactions when you can just pay $12.99 for 0 restrictions?

[Propane]

Exactly. Why pay a bunch of micro-transactions when you can just pay $12.99 for 0 restrictions?

 

Why pay for a free game? So you can actually play the game that was suppose to be free?

Edited August 1, 2013 by Propane

[chuixupu]

Why pay for a free game? So you can actually play the game that was suppose to be free?

 

This is your mistake. This is not a free game, never was, never will be. It can't function without a steady monthly income. They don't want freeloaders, they want people to continue to pay for the game so they can continue to pay employees to actually create content and keep the servers running.

[Propane]

This is your mistake. This is not a free game, never was, never will be. It can't function without a steady monthly income. They don't want freeloaders, they want people to continue to pay for the game so they can continue to pay employees to actually create content and keep the servers running.

 

I guess that big all caps and golden "NOW FREE TO PLAY" is just for decoration? But it is good you agree with me, the game isn't Free to Play, they should rename it to "Glorified demo, please give us money so you can play the full experience"

 

They make enough revenue from the Cartel Market to keep the game up, and they would have more players if the game was not a glorified demo (as this forum has already went over.) There are other free GAMES that have 20x the servers and employees that run without having to cut multiple employees and combine servers to give the illusion that people actually play the game like EA did here.

 

Maybe they need their money because they spend it on CGI trailers that are more entertaining than the actual game, huh?

Edited August 1, 2013 by Propane