Pay to Win

[Superman_AZ]

Pay - to - Win

 

Winning - Successfully finishing something before all others or having the best situation unobtainable by others, as in a race, or game.

 

Please direct me to the person who has WON SW:TOR. I would like to shake their hand and congratulate them for beating an MMO. Most MMOs are ever evolving and can never fully be completed. If someone has completed every quest in the game, owns everything in every collection, has every title, every mount, maximum amount of creds, maximum amount of CCs, and there is NOTHING left to collect, or complete, then they have officially WON THIS GAME. I, for one, would like to shake their hand and pat them on the back for a job well done and find out which MMO they play to WIN next.

[Never_Hesitate]

Please direct me to the person who has WON SW:TOR.

 

I'm pretty sure there were some SWTOR give aways

[Superman_AZ]

I'm pretty sure there were some SWTOR give aways

 

Not as a prize I want to see the person who completely capped everything in the game and got a Game Over status for beating it. Because they PAYED to beat the game.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Superman_AZ

[curtkram]

so, those of you trying to defend EA by saying there are worse examples think it's a good thing that EA has moved it's focus from it's core product and it's infrastructure and turned to short-term profits that benefit an investor class most of us don't belong to.

 

we should kill off swtor as a game, because it's just throw away pixels and there are people starving in african and middle-eastern states because of corrupt regimes and resource blockades for financial and political gain of ruling elites. you know who did a bad job running things? charles taylor in liberia. the way he ran things is worse that what EA did by most accounts. first world problems, am i right bran? sorry if that counts as a name call-out, don't want to break the ToS i never bothered reading.

 

if this makes sense to you, you've failed at sound reasoning. EA sucks. they could do better. they should do better. it has nothing to do with buying apples from the store.

[Never_Hesitate]

so, those of you trying to defend EA by saying there are worse examples think it's a good thing that EA has moved it's focus from it's core product and it's infrastructure and turned to short-term profits that benefit an investor class most of us don't belong to.

 

Like all businesses in the capitalist markets have, to invent long lasting products is not as profitable as selling a new product in the long term

 

we should kill off swtor as a game, because it's just throw away pixels and there are people starving in african and middle-eastern states because of corrupt regimes and resource blockades for financial and political gain of ruling elites. you know who did a bad job running things? charles taylor in liberia. the way he ran things is worse that what EA did by most accounts. first world problems, am i right bran? sorry if that counts as a name call-out, don't want to break the ToS i never bothered reading.

 

that's a very important moral question:

how much of the world am I willing to see corrupted just so I can enjoy a bit of luxus?

(The western worlds answer to this is "all of it")

 

if this makes sense to you, you've failed at sound reasoning. EA sucks. they could do better. they should do better. it has nothing to do with buying apples from the store.

 

It depends which part you look at.

EA surely makes a lot of profit, so they do not suck in these terms, they do suck in the care for their products that's right.

As long as you don't want to lay a lot of regulations on them and as long as the people are buying their products, they will be able to continue their suckiness, but I for my part enjoy SWTOR too much to give it up for another boycott action that doesn't work.

People (which includes me and you) are trained to be better consumers, by tv, advertisments and a lot more.

When you see how long people wait for a new product (for example the Iphone 5) and must have it even if they already have the predecessor, you can clearly see how we run for a "better" product even if the means used to produce it are horrible and the product isn't that much better, than it's predecessor.

[Amaranth]

so, those of you trying to defend EA by saying there are worse examples think it's a good thing that EA has moved it's focus from it's core product and it's infrastructure and turned to short-term profits that benefit an investor class most of us don't belong to.

 

we should kill off swtor as a game, because it's just throw away pixels and there are people starving in african and middle-eastern states because of corrupt regimes and resource blockades for financial and political gain of ruling elites. you know who did a bad job running things? charles taylor in liberia. the way he ran things is worse that what EA did by most accounts. first world problems, am i right bran? sorry if that counts as a name call-out, don't want to break the ToS i never bothered reading.

 

if this makes sense to you, you've failed at sound reasoning. EA sucks. they could do better. they should do better. it has nothing to do with buying apples from the store.

 

Not everything is so black and white. You can criticize EA without thinking they are the worst company in America. Should EA do better? Of course they should; I don't know of anyone in this thread that thinks they are perfect, or even close to it. But there are worse companies out there in my opinion.

[TheNahash]

so, those of you trying to defend EA by saying there are worse examples think it's a good thing that EA has moved it's focus from it's core product and it's infrastructure and turned to short-term profits that benefit an investor class most of us don't belong to.

 

Once again, you are exaggerating and trying to twist what people are saying to make them sound irrational.

First of all, I don't care enough about EA to "defend" them. Or Ubisoft or Activision or any other publisher for that matter. Plus, you know, they don't really need me to defend them.

But I do care about people who've lost perspective of what's important and what's not, of what's optional and what's not, of what's entertainment and what's reality etc.

 

Second, let's just say that EA is the worst video games publisher in the whole world. Let's also assume that not one of their titles is worth more than 1 cent.

That STILL doesn't make it the "worst company in America" (or Europe or Asia or anywhere else)

 

There are companies that do their job well, companies that do their job inadequately and some that are doing it terribly.

And then there are companies that do actual HARM to real people. And the damage they inflict is not "oh, noes my armor is not gray enough".

When you put every single company in the same category and blur the lines between what's done poorly and what's actually harmful, then there is no point in having a discussion.

 

if this makes sense to you, you've failed at sound reasoning. EA sucks. they could do better. they should do better. it has nothing to do with buying apples from the store.

 

They could.

And they should at least try to make their games 1000% better. That should be the goal of every company along with profit: providing a great experience for their customers.

 

But even if EA completely fails to deliver and unless they start polluting the water or putting people out of their homes, they can never be "the worst company".

People really need to get some perspective.

Edited July 26, 2013 by TheNahash

[hadoken]

Not everything is so black and white. You can criticize EA without thinking they are the worst company in America. Should EA do better? Of course they should; I don't know of anyone in this thread that thinks they are perfect, or even close to it. But there are worse companies out there in my opinion.

 

On this note it always cracks me up when I see video game companies top the 'worst company' lists on sites. I get that people dislike EA's practices when it comes to making games, but compared to the kinds of REALLY BAD THINGS other companies are doing out there (Bank of America?) it's so small time.

[LordArtemis]

I get it.

 

EA is bad.

 

Bioware is bad for going free to play/market.

 

Anyone who doesn't agree lacks common sense.

 

Does that pretty much sum it up?

 

Funny thing about that though, I suspect there are many folks out there that not only like the direction the game is going, they also like the market and even...perhaps....the F2P system, despite it's flaws.

 

I don't think it's a matter of common sense. I think it's more likely it's a matter of personal taste.

[curtkram]

I get it.

 

EA is bad.

this is why people are saying they're a bad company

Bioware is bad for going free to play/market.

i don't think this has anything to do with anything in this thread. f2p does not have to mean p2w.

Anyone who doesn't agree lacks common sense.

this is wrong

Does that pretty much sum it up?

no

Funny thing about that though, I suspect there are many folks out there that not only like the direction the game is going, they also like the market and even...perhaps....the F2P system, despite it's flaws.

 

I don't think it's a matter of common sense. I think it's more likely it's a matter of personal taste.

 

i believe this is an example of the failure to reason i mentioned above. as it relates to the other responses, fixing the real problems in the world has pretty much no effect on EA or it's business practices, unless those fixes are specifically geared towards legislation or regulation that effects american corporate structure or some similar thing that would actually have an effect on EA.

 

if another company sells arms or pollutes rivers, that doesn't necessarily mean they are running their company poorly. some people like causing civil wars. there is a lot of money to be made in destroying and rebuilding a country. some people like polluting rivers; mostly just conservatives and the investor class that profits from polluting rivers. if a company does these things because that's what their customers want them to do, then they could actually be focusing on the best product and sound infrastructure and quality employees and happy customers and all that. the problem there is that there are a lot of horrible people that hurt others for their own benefit.

 

when a bank forecloses on a house that is owned outright by someone else, that's just bad business. those banks definitely deserve to be ranked right up there with EA.

Edited July 26, 2013 by curtkram

[Never_Hesitate]

Bioware is bad for going free to play/market.

 

Anyone who doesn't agree lacks common sense.

 

Does that pretty much sum it up?

 

You're wrong, according to some BW is bad because they don't give everything away for free (Subscription is P2W)

[Hessen]

And, mind you, that was NOT a "worst VIDEO GAMES company in America" poll.

It just goes to show how cut off people really are from reality and REAL "evil" things.

 

No but it was an online poll, and heavily influenced by a small band of people getting all their mates and online communities to hate vote for EA.

 

Much like trying to get a random song to Number 1 at Christmas.

[LordArtemis]

I was being facetious guys.

 

I don't agree that EA is bad or that the F2P/Market system is bad with respect to Bioware doing so for the reasons stated by some folks.

 

I do agree that EA has folks working for it in it's PR department that must hit themselves in the head with bricks every morning to start their day. Some of the ideas the company comes up with are almost laughable. It's as if they exist in a vacuum.

 

I also think the F2P system here could use some tweaks to make it more appealing, especially to returning players (and also sweeten the appeal of subs by giving them some candy, like some kind of milestone reward system) and the Market could use some adjustments as well (all armor reduced in price by about 20 percent and remove ALL MODS to make all market armor level 1 adaptive so it can be collected).

 

Personally, however, I am reasonably happy with this game at the moment and EA's support....for now. And that is saying quite a bit, considering I walked from this game shortly after launch and expected to never return.

 

The exit of the prior dev team (glad to see them go, best thing to happen to the game) and the launch of F2P/Market, as well as the reversal of quite a few of the draconian restrictions the original dev team had in place enticed me to return. I've spent far too much money ever since...

[GalenMourne]

I was being facetious guys.

 

I don't agree that EA is bad or that the F2P/Market system is bad with respect to Bioware doing so for the reasons stated by some folks.

 

I do agree that EA has folks working for it in it's PR department that must hit themselves in the head with bricks every morning to start their day. Some of the ideas the company comes up with are almost laughable. It's as if they exist in a vacuum.

 

I also think the F2P system here could use some tweaks to make it more appealing, especially to returning players (and also sweeten the appeal of subs by giving them some candy, like some kind of milestone reward system) and the Market could use some adjustments as well (all armor reduced in price by about 20 percent and remove ALL MODS to make all market armor level 1 adaptive so it can be collected).

 

Personally, however, I am reasonably happy with this game at the moment and EA's support....for now. And that is saying quite a bit, considering I walked from this game shortly after launch and expected to never return.

 

The exit of the prior dev team (glad to see them go, best thing to happen to the game) and the launch of F2P/Market, as well as the reversal of quite a few of the draconian restrictions the original dev team had in place enticed me to return. I've spent far too much money ever since...

 

I agree with you on this. This game is no were near pay to win, but there are some things they can do to improve the game.

 

If i was to make any changes this is what i would do.

 

1. Subscriber rewards system. 4 tiers of rewards, one tier unlocked for every 3 months of constant sub time, 4 or 5 rewards per tier. Every 3 months you can choose one reward from any tier you have unlocked. Additionally, add in a sub vendor with items only sub can get with credits, and have a few items that can only be purchased if you have unlocked a certain tier. Each year add 1 new item to each tier, and transfer an old one from each tier to the vendor for credit purchase. If your sub lapses more than a month you have to start all over.

 

2. Remove the gear authorizations or drastically lower the price.

 

3. Change the revive probes to a one time unlock, charge 1/2 the amount of the epic gear authorization. Without unlock you can only res at med center.

 

4. Legacy bank tab purchasable for same price as epic gear authorization for ftp, subs can spend credits or cc.

 

5. Change the weekly passes to convenience passes like the flash point pass:

 

a.Remove war zones per week cap and change it to a weekly com cap which the pass overwrites. Also allow ftp to queue for ranked with or without the pass.

 

b. Space com and credit cap, unlimited space missions( this will be more important when the space game gets updated).

 

c. For operations a few changes need to be made. I would add a new com called an operations com, 1 com would be dropped from each boss in an op. All set pieces can be purchased with either the token from the boss or with enough operations coms equal to 20% or 30% of the non tier piece off the vendor(i.e. 16 to 24 for bracers) as long as you have downed that boss on that difficulty mode( achievement required).

 

Ftp players would be able to enter any operation but have a coms cap that is half of what subs have, would not be able to receive tier gear from drops, and can receive one non tier piece per week. The operations pass would bring um to sub level for 1 week, otherwise they can grind it out and eventually get the whole tier set for that difficulty mode as long as they can get past all the bosses.

 

All the weekly passes would be a convenience purchase while gearing, but all content would be 100% open to them.

Edited July 26, 2013 by GalenMourne

[Andryah]

I do agree that EA has folks working for it in it's PR department that must hit themselves in the head with bricks every morning to start their day. Some of the ideas the company comes up with are almost laughable. It's as if they exist in a vacuum.

 

More likely.. they hit themselves in the heads with bricks everyday, to punish themselves for working for a gaming company. Gaming companies as a whole, have among the worst consumer customer base on the planet.

 

No sane PR person would work for a gaming company. You have to be a special kind of masochist to work marketing or sales for a Gaming company, any gaming company.

 

Back on topic... nothing about this game is P2W. Oh, people will hold breath until blue in the face, stomp feet, and gnash teeth to try to change reality. But reality is impervious to a gaming forums attempts to alter reality.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Andryah

[Hessen]

More likely.. they hit themselves in the heads with bricks everyday, to punish themselves for working for a gaming company. Gaming companies as a whole, have among the worst consumer customer base on the planet.

 

No sane PR person would work for a gaming company. You have to be a special kind of masochist to work marketing or sales for a Gaming company, any gaming company.

 

I don't think that's because the consumers are any worse than anywhere else, there's just an instant way of giving feedback and opinions via forums.

 

Where other companies around the world are starting to do similar, even via basic social media like Twitter and Facebook, they are starting to hit the same problems.

[GalenMourne]

More likely.. they hit themselves in the heads with bricks everyday, to punish themselves for working for a gaming company. Gaming companies as a whole, have among the worst consumer customer base on the planet.

 

No sane PR person would work for a gaming company. You have to be a special kind of masochist to work marketing or sales for a Gaming company, any gaming company.

 

Back on topic... nothing about this game is P2W. Oh, people will hold breath until blue in the face, stomp feet, and gnash teeth to try to change reality. But reality is impervious to a gaming forums attempts to alter reality.

 

I agree with most of what you said, but in general anyone who has ever worked customer service can tell you this is par for the course. You ever worked in a restaurant as a server? It's funny when you learn to spot the people who complain on purpose because they know it will get them a free meal. Years ago i actually lost my job because of one of these people. That is probably why i get so sick and tired of threads like these, I often wonder if some of these idiotic hate threads have potentially caused someone to lose their job as well, people who more than likely didn't do anything wrong.

Edited July 26, 2013 by GalenMourne

[Andryah]

I don't think that's because the consumers are any worse than anywhere else, there's just an instant way of giving feedback and opinions via forums.

 

Where other companies around the world are starting to do similar, even via basic social media like Twitter and Facebook, they are starting to hit the same problems.

 

My context of opinion is as an Amazon Prime Customer. I do a lot of business with Amazon and part of the consumer process is taking advantage of customer reviews in the Amazon system.

 

While almost all products will receive a range of reviews from customers, video game reviews in general are the most hyperbolic and difficult to sift and separate fact from personal complaint on Amazon. It is almost exactly the same behaviors, and scale, as seen in gaming forums.

 

So no.. while I agree with you that he Twitterization/Facebooking of the consumer base makes it easier for the individual to rant and complain....its much worse for video games, and particularly for consoles games and PC MMOs.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Andryah

[Andryah]

I agree with most of what you said, but in general anyone who has ever worked customer service can tell you this is par for the course. You ever worked in a restaurant as a server? It's funny when you learn to spot the people who complain on purpose because they know it will get them a free meal. Years ago i actually lost my job because of one of these people. That is probably why i get so sick and tired of threads like these, I often wonder if some of these idiotic hate threads have potentially caused someone to lose their job as well, people who more than likely didn't do anything wrong.

 

I agree with you that some d-bags will use customer complaint as a method to gain something of benefit to them (such as in your example above). They are sociopaths.. and unfortunately the latest data says that ~ 4% of Americans are sociopaths.. so that's a tough crowd to face as a food service employee.

 

When you are anonymous on the internet, and have an over inflated sense of entitlement, with little or no consequence for our actions... you are free to be more of a d-bag then in real life. So forums, particularly gaming forums... are fruit for such behaviors. And, given 4% of the population in the US is sociopathic to some degree, and sociopaths tend to be introverts (as opposed to narcissists who are extroverts)... forums are extremely fruitful ground for them to play in and gaming forums are fruitful forums by definition in the context of customer forums.

 

btw... I am very sorry to hear that you lost your job over some d-bags behaviors. Food service is a tough business IMO, and I personally very much appreciate the service that good food service staff provide. And I make a point to over-tip because I figure there are others that are stingy and not appreciative, nor cognizant that tips are an important part of food service income.

[BUBBUH]

And did you get the apples for free, even if you did not buy anything and did you then even got the guts to complain that you did not get the oranges for free also?... cause that is what you are doing here.

 

No as i've said about 40 times now? I went to grocer down the street, got superior quality oranges and whatever else I wanted completely free and had a merry day. Enjoy willfully submitting to having money taken? Because that is what you are doing here.

[Amaranth]

No as i've said about 40 times now? I went to grocer down the street, got superior quality oranges and whatever else I wanted completely free and had a merry day. Enjoy willfully submitting to having money taken? Because that is what you are doing here.

 

We are paying for a service, just like Netflix or Hulu Plus. If I didn't think the service was worth the cost, I - wait for it - wouldn't pay. No one is forcing me to play, just like no one is forcing you to play. If you don't think the game is worth it, then don't play. There's nothing wrong with that; not everyone is going to like every game.

 

But if I had to guess, I'd say you do want to play, but just don't like that it costs money. Otherwise you wouldn't be here.

[JPryde]

No as i've said about 40 times now? I went to grocer down the street, got superior quality oranges and whatever else I wanted completely free and had a merry day. Enjoy willfully submitting to having money taken? Because that is what you are doing here.

Actually I do not see any superior "oranges" anywhere around. Rift, TSW and GW2 are not superior to me. LoL and Dota are not even of the same genre, so not even comparable and as I do not like that genre also not superior to me.

 

So yes, I am willing to pay for the service of THE ONLY choice I have for good entertainment, as there is no other choice which would cost me less AND entertain me at least as good as SWTOR is.

[JnEricsonx]

I'd drop CCs to buy the Blue Sphere speeder at this point, less stressful.

[Royox]

The Cartel Market isn't - the restrictions are.

 

 

This is a MMO with subs. The Subber has the NORMAL stuff a player need.

[Propane]

Actually I do not see any superior "oranges" anywhere around. Rift, TSW and GW2 are not superior to me. LoL and Dota are not even of the same genre, so not even comparable and as I do not like that genre also not superior to me.

 

So yes, I am willing to pay for the service of THE ONLY choice I have for good entertainment, as there is no other choice which would cost me less AND entertain me at least as good as SWTOR is.

 

You sure do post much on this thread.

 

350 comments 12k views - keep it coming.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Propane