3 questions to help PT's

[UncleOst]

As a pyro player I will summarize the problems class currently face:

 

Problem 1, sustained damage:

Pre-expansion sustained damage relied on CGC, RS damage and critic rating. All three were nerfed big time. The additions to pyro tree, which are TD dot, IM and RS 6% damage, surge buff to flame burst and IM and SC run about 300-400 dps short from pre-expansion (considering same gear). Currently, the highest full parse is below 2,600 hundred, which other classes are putting in early 3K ranage. In simple terms, pyro is around 15% off from highest parsers.

 

Solution:

A significant buff is needed adding 300-400 dps either in periodic damage, burst or fillers. I think a balanced increase in all the them will improve the tree overall effectiveness (I will elaborate more below regarding burst). For sustained damage, instead of desgus (which is completely useless), a three point skill should be added making flame burst increase damage done by all fire effects and periodic effects by 4,6, 12%.

 

The 2 points adding in IM and RP damage increased from 3,6% to 5,10%.

 

IM cost reduced to 10 heat (so low for energy management that I will elaborate below), and its duration reduced from 18 secs to 15 secs while dot over all damage stays the same (more dps).

 

Problem 2, burst damage:

Pre-expansion, pyro PvP wise excelled in only in facet, individual target damage specifically burst. Needless to say, that much of dps effectiveness in PvP relies on the ability to kill the opposition ASAP. Pyro used to be really good in that aspect, and now is really terrible in that aspect.

 

Solution:

These have been mentioned like 25 million times, but RS armor penetration needs to be restored and TD needs the dot removed and base damage increased by 30-35%. This will make pyros damage desirable in PvP again, and has little to no impact in PvE.

 

Problem 3, survivability:

Among all dps classes, pyro PT is probably the weakest in survivabilty. Pyro was glass cannon, now is just glass. And even with the damage gimp, survivability was further reduced by moving energy re bounder to AP tree.

 

Solution:

Depending on how much burst is restored, survivability need to be adjusted accordingly. As mentioned before, kolto overload should be usable at 50%, NOT at execute range, which where it is already useless. Also, the skill that reduced kolto overload CD should restore 1% health when atked.

 

Problem 4, utility:

PvE wise it is none existent. That would not be a problem, except that damage also is pretty terrible. The utility in PvP is reasoable

 

Solution:

If pyro can dps around 3K on consistent basis, the need for utility is not much needed. If not, a reasonable update in utitlity in terms of providing damage for the group should be implemented to justify lower dps than other classes.

 

Problem 5, energy management:

The heavy dependency on RNG for energy management was always a problem for pyros. The tree heat management is very highly depend on PPA. Theoretically PPA should proc one every 4 globals. When that does not happen, you run into issues, so you either over heat or use regular atk way too often.

 

Solution:

As mentioned about, drop IM cost to 10 heat so it would be used as energy gain skill. Decrease heat override skill from 2 mins to 1 min.

 

 

Ideally, pyro should be parasing around 3K in regular basis. In addition, a slight increase in surviveability and restoring burst damage should restore most if pyro's capabilities in PvP,

 

 

Nice post.

 

I've expressed in the past how much I dislike shoulder cannon. It's great for defending nodes, but in essence, is far too gimmicky. I would definitely like to see this ability either made ap exclusive, removed or revamped.

[ausmisc]

Turning Pyro into some kind of DOT class is going to have the same effect when it comes to RWZ.. ie Pyro not being viable compared to snipers, smashers, sorcs and mercs. I really hope it doesn't go down that path. DOT classes are just too predictable and easily countered.

 

AP is in a lot better position currently than pyro. With passive heat regen, passive movement speed, passive DR through energy rebounder, active energy shield CD reduction, only spec to get -30% aoe and cc damage, interrupt CD reduction, grapple CD reduction, increased shoulder missiles. extra 50%+ time to hydraulic overrides etc. I feel this spec is very much about its utility and survivability, which lets it put out quite sustained and high enough damage. I don't think it needs much love. I currently switch between full AP and hybrid AP/pyro.

 

I can't even justify speccing 36 points into Pyro atm. Really needs TD restored to its former glory/usefulness and railshot armour penetration put back to where it was - would go a long way to restoring the classes ability in PVP. From there it could be gauged to see if even with those changes if it's still on par with the other DPS classes given the buffs other classes received in 2.0. Pyro tree seems to have far too many questionable talents that aren't worth putting points into compared to almost every other AC. Crappy endurance buff, DOT dmg reduction, reduced flame sweep cost, gimpy kolto which must be the worst self heal in the game.. whole tree needs to be looked at and re-evaluated.

 

I can't really fathom why they took a a glass cannon class, took away its burst and REDUCED its survivability, effectively making it a feather duster.

 

Not too sure how to phrase it into a question. I think the devs mentioned 1 PVE question, 1 PVP question, and 1 general/other. ATM I see pyro as the most broken followed by shieldtech which seems to be the bottom of the 3 tank ACs. Would like to see the focus on them to start with.

Edited July 15, 2013 by ausmisc

[Yngow]

Shield tech is far from worse tank AC, its actually really good and *much* better than shadow tanks that are pretty much broken right now.

 

That being said, there is still a lot of room for improvement, specially because juggs/guardians are so powerful after 2.0 that there's really no point in having anything other than two of them as tanks in your raid.

 

Problems:

- The pull/harpoon should give more threat like shadows (force pull) looks like the ability was not updated for 2.0 and gives as much threat as it would give at lvl 50.

- Should cannon self healing is nice, but in a very long cooldown to be considered something really useful for mitigation, and with the heal being situational the fact that you have to load missiles over time and the skill only goes on cd after you fire the last one makes it way unreliable, I would like to see it either going on cd when you finish loading the 4 or just instantly loading them all, that way we can either use them wisely by considering how long till you can recharge them or just have it ready for spamming if you get in bad situation and don't have them loaded. As it stands right now you can either try to save it (and if you don't need it you will just lose it and get a long cd to reload) or just use as soon as you can in order to keep the cooldown going and have more missiled overall during the fight.

- We need another cd, more information here. you can see why and how to possibly fix it there.

 

Other than that, minor stuff that I don't really see a problem with, and all that is pve focused since I don't know much about pvp, but I can see all of those fixes being good for pvp too.

 

Now for other specs, I don't play them much but I agree with pretty much what everyone is saying, AP is very situational and not mobile for a (mainly) melee dps, pyro lost its burst and needs improvement and the fact that we have to go a hybrid spec to get a good balance of burst/mobile/good dmg is pretty lame. Also shoulder cannon is a very bad implementation for dps trees because of the long cd and low dmg, it does give a kinda nice burst on AP (for movement situations mainly) but not that good. I understand pyron is a dot spec but every dot spec does have a nice direct dmg ability (merciless on watchmen, weakening blast and cull on snipers...) and pyro lacks that.

 

I guess a good and simple general question for the class would be "Shoulder Cannon, W.TF?"

Edited July 15, 2013 by Yngow

[af_raptura]

There are a few things that I would like to add to this thread before directly questioning the combat team begins. This is written from the perspective of someone who plays Advanced Prototype in pvp. I know that a lot of the other powertechs really like and wand to play pyro, and that's fine, but AP needs some attention, too.

 

I would like to say that the defenses of AP, while not as great as say a marauder, are still okay to good for a DPS. The burst though, is quite lackluster. Because of this, AP has frequently been given some rather cutsy titles like a "joke spec" or the "redheaded stepchild" spec. Simply put, people who want to play as a DPS spec in pvp expect a little bit more burst output. The hardest hitting attack is of course the flamethrower, which can do 3k damage per tick. If they all crit, which is pretty unlikely, that can be 12k. That really only amounts to on average 6k damage per global cooldown because of the channel time. It also involves rooting yourself, exposing yourself to a stun, or having your target use a speed boost to get away. With all the movement in pvp, the risk often just doesn't justify the reward. Some people want to improve this by giving AP flame engine, but as cool as that would be, it would step on Shield Tech's toes for PvE, and so that really isn't the best solution. My suggestion would be to allocate some more damage elsewhere to make AP less dependant on that one attack that is easy to counter.

 

The obvious choice would be immolate since increasing its damage affects no other specs. As it is now, it can hit for around a 5.5k crit, but more often than not, it hits for like 4.5k on a crit. Doing so might also draw some of the PvE crowd away from the hybrid. Is there any chance we could get a buff to immolate?

 

Similarly, the shoulder cannon rockets, are kind of good for AP in pvp, but the 1.5 minute cooldown plus the time to load all the rockets are probably what is steering away people from the skill in pvp for all specs. I might suggest a universal buff to all the specs of either the damage, lower the cooldown to 1 minute and keep the load time, or keep the cooldown and make them load faster. Is there any chance the devs might consider tweaking shoulder cannon?

 

I would personally like to see a buff to the damage of flame burst and rocket punch, but since all Powertech specs use those moves, I am hesitant to say how to change them to make AP stronger.

 

One other suggestion I might have is that although AP is an AoE DPS spec, it makes no use of Flame Spin in its rotation. It costs too much heat and does too little damage to really be used. I only ever use Flame Spin out of combat to build stacks of the prototype flamethrower. That is kind of a shame since the animation is kind of cool. Is there any chance we could get a damage a considerable buff to this ability in AP? Please note, do not turn Flame Spin in the OP abomination that is Smash.

 

I will admit, I may not have the best ideas, but I'm trying to help out this spec because I really like it and would like to see it strong in pvp. Without changes, AP will continue to be a "redheaded stepchild" spec.

 

TLDR; Maybe if they buffed immolate, shoulder cannon, and flame spin, AP could be in a better place for pvp.

[Brunner_Venda]

I use field respec for PVP, depending on if my team has healers or not. Without a good healer, AP is the only possible choice. That being said, I like AP better. It just doesn't put out the damage.

 

1. Rail shot needs more damage and armor pen. Tie it to charged gauntlets or blood tracker. The move needs to so more than 5k damage after a 15 second CD. Keep trying until rail shot does 7K on average with a full spec. AP is not a damn DOT spec, it needs DPS. It has nothing else going for it.

 

2. Prototype loaders needs to lower the shoulder cannon CD to one min, I like the idea. Problem is, the skill does jack before level 55.

 

3. Flame Barrage gives us a free rocket punch. Big deal, our spec has zero heat management issues with HEC. Make this skill reduce the cooldown of immolate instead by 3/6 seconds instead.

 

4. Prototype cylinders gives us 1% additional elemental damage. I want to smack the BW idiot who did that. Give us 3% tech crit or another 2% elemental.

 

That would give us solid PVP damage and help catch us up some in PVE parses.

 

There are a few things that I would like to add to this thread before directly questioning the combat team begins. This is written from the perspective of someone who plays Advanced Prototype in pvp. I know that a lot of the other powertechs really like and wand to play pyro, and that's fine, but AP needs some attention, too.

 

I would like to say that the defenses of AP, while not as great as say a marauder, are still okay to good for a DPS. The burst though, is quite lackluster. Because of this, AP has frequently been given some rather cutsy titles like a "joke spec" or the "redheaded stepchild" spec. Simply put, people who want to play as a DPS spec in pvp expect a little bit more burst output. The hardest hitting attack is of course the flamethrower, which can do 3k damage per tick. If they all crit, which is pretty unlikely, that can be 12k. That really only amounts to on average 6k damage per global cooldown because of the channel time. It also involves rooting yourself, exposing yourself to a stun, or having your target use a speed boost to get away. With all the movement in pvp, the risk often just doesn't justify the reward. Some people want to improve this by giving AP flame engine, but as cool as that would be, it would step on Shield Tech's toes for PvE, and so that really isn't the best solution. My suggestion would be to allocate some more damage elsewhere to make AP less dependant on that one attack that is easy to counter.

 

The obvious choice would be immolate since increasing its damage affects no other specs. As it is now, it can hit for around a 5.5k crit, but more often than not, it hits for like 4.5k on a crit. Doing so might also draw some of the PvE crowd away from the hybrid. Is there any chance we could get a buff to immolate?

 

Similarly, the shoulder cannon rockets, are kind of good for AP in pvp, but the 1.5 minute cooldown plus the time to load all the rockets are probably what is steering away people from the skill in pvp for all specs. I might suggest a universal buff to all the specs of either the damage, lower the cooldown to 1 minute and keep the load time, or keep the cooldown and make them load faster. Is there any chance the devs might consider tweaking shoulder cannon?

 

I would personally like to see a buff to the damage of flame burst and rocket punch, but since all Powertech specs use those moves, I am hesitant to say how to change them to make AP stronger.

 

One other suggestion I might have is that although AP is an AoE DPS spec, it makes no use of Flame Spin in its rotation. It costs too much heat and does too little damage to really be used. I only ever use Flame Spin out of combat to build stacks of the prototype flamethrower. That is kind of a shame since the animation is kind of cool. Is there any chance we could get a damage a considerable buff to this ability in AP? Please note, do not turn Flame Spin in the OP abomination that is Smash.

 

I will admit, I may not have the best ideas, but I'm trying to help out this spec because I really like it and would like to see it strong in pvp. Without changes, AP will continue to be a "redheaded stepchild" spec.

 

TLDR; Maybe if they buffed immolate, shoulder cannon, and flame spin, AP could be in a better place for pvp.

[AzumaVicious]

I'd reserve my question for the next round, but mine would be along the lines of:

 

"Currently, all Tank AC's other than Vanguard/Powertech have an execute. Could you explain your reasoning for this particular design?"

 

I would reference that Vigi/Vengeance specs were recently given a 15% speed buff to bring them into alignment with other middle tree specs, could the lack of an execute for the Vanguard/Powertech be a similar oversight?

[Melon_Lord]

Here's a question, why do Lethality operatives much like pyro, a multi-range mostly melee class with dots have both their dots at 30m? Dart costs 16 and Grenade only costs 10 and is aoe. No one cares to use TD so pyro basically only has 2 dots as well but only at 10m range, while IM costs 2.5x as much as Corrosive Grenade.

People have complained about IM cost and while it's not really a problem if you proc rail shot every time, it can be if you don't. Since BW doesn't want us to have burst how about TD gets completely changed into an IM buff that ups the damage by 30%, makes it affect multiple things like corrosive grenade and maybe increases rail shot on targets affected by IM

[Schanez]

I recently decided to go pure Pyrotech to check how the class is played. And it really has some issues. I read through what you wrote and mostly agree, but I would suggest some changes to the proposed ideas. I will focus on the Pyrotech as I think this spec suffered the most.

 

 

Thermal Detonator:

This skill suffered a burst nerf for the sake of giving us a third DoT. This can be a powerfull skill, but with the current interraction between abilities it's to weak. You proposed either giving it a higher initial damage or giving the DoT some additional effects (like X% bonus dmg to other burn effects).

 

This is what I propose:

1. If the target is affected by TD DoT, make the next Flame Burst spread the burn effect on 3/5 additional targets.

2. If the target is affected by TD DoT, other burn effects have a 15/30% higher critical chance.

3. If the target is affected by TD DoT, the next Rail Shot will be critical hit (against the affected target).

 

You can see that I try to make the skills interract with each other ( I like a more complex, combat oriented classes ). I think that one of those changes, or even two may make the TD more desired skill and will bring the pure Pyrotech build back to it's previous glory. To be clear, I am proposing one/two of those changes, not all three at once.

 

 

Incendiary Missile:

A lot of people is concerned about the heat cost of IM. As I started using it as a normal DoT I realised it has a bad habbit of ruining my ventilation when already in fight and balancing around 30 heat. There were some proposals of decreasing the heat usage.

 

This is what I propose:

1. Superheated Rail reapplies Incendiary Missile DoT instead of CGC.

2. If the target is affected by IM DoT, the next Rail Shot will be a critical hit (against the affected target).

3. IM ignites the target for 531-892 and deals additional 2275 elemental damage over 18 seconds. While the target burns from IM it's healing is reduced by 15-20%. ( similar to Sentinel's Cripling throw )

 

Again, those changes are meant to make the Pyrotech a more competitive PvP spec. The first one is meant to keep the DoT on the target removing the need of using the skill while already fighting. We have Flame Sweep, Flame Burst and normal attacks to apply CGC, so I figured that taking Rail Shot from this list would not criple the CGC so much. The second is same as in TD, I think one of those two would help with the lack of burst damage while not changing a lot in the current style of the class. In the last one the numbers are taken from torhead, just as an example. IM is an anti tank/healer skill now and I thought this little add would make it more verstile. Would be more dangerous against DPS players.

 

Survivability:

For the moment the Pyrotechs do not have any skill that can save them from being crushed 1v1 against any other DPS class. The Sentinel/Marauder has Zen/Berserk which grants them 100% crit on burn Dots ( which are all of them ) and heals them ( and their group ) for 1% of maximum hp each tick. Shadow/Assasin has Force in Balance/Death Field which affects up to 5 targets and heals them for 1% for each target affected.

 

This is what I propose:

1. While TD/IM is active on a target, your burn effects' critical strikes have a chance of healing you for 1% of your maximum hp.

2. Pyro Shield heals you for 1% of your maximum health each time it hits a target.

3. Kolto Overload triggers at 40% of your hp.

 

This changes are meant to give Pyrotechs healing similar to other DoT classes. In the first on it's either TD or IM, not both. The second is meant to work similar to Shadows Death Field, but considering it's cooldown (120 for Powertechs and 15 for Shadow/Assasin) it must either be taken with one of the others or not be the only healing granting ability in our set. The last one is meant to give us a chance of avoiding the finishing moves of other classes, because we do not have one of our own.

 

I will leave creating questions to you guys

 

PS.

What I wrote here are just ideas. The numbers are just examples. I do not know how it will influence the balance between classes. Untill it's reviewed by someone who actually knows the game from the inside, I would ask you to comment on the sole ideas, not the numbers provided. Thank you for any constructive feedback.

[Strzzy]

Just a suggestion , wouldn't it be a good idea to make flamethrower a burst ability( as in just one big ball of flames at once without channeling)? But need to be specced for it and only available for powertechs? Edited July 21, 2013 by Strzzy

[Chickensevil]

Just a suggestion , wouldn't it be a good idea to make flamethrower a burst ability( as in just one big ball of flames at once without channeling)? But need to be specced for it and only available for powertechs?

 

No... just no. That is what Flame Burst is... I mean that's EXACTLY what flame burst is.

 

Have you ever seen how a flame thrower looks/works. The original animation (aside from not showing it's true damage area) was probably quite accurate to how one looks/works. Hypothetically you could shoot it for much longer.

 

The flavor of the attack is already great. If they want to make it any different, they could let AP spec into it going down to 1.5 second cast time, instead of three... like the tanks. On the balance side of things, an instant cast would be way too much damage offloaded onto a one off.

[Schanez]

Just a suggestion , wouldn't it be a good idea to make flamethrower a burst ability( as in just one big ball of flames at once without channeling)? But need to be specced for it and only available for powertechs?

 

Flamethrower is a very powerfull ability, but for PvE mostly. Any player will simply either interupt or move from the range ( which can be tricky, 10 meters and the ability to turn while casting ). If you think you need it to be cast faster build some alacrity, but considering our abilities to be instant mostly, on the global cooldown, it would be such a waste.

 

It's situational, but still potent in PvP. If you position yourself properly, you can hit more then one target. Which means anyone behind your target get's burned. It can force some healers to break their channeling / casting if they already have your IM/TD on them.

 

 

PS.

The flamethrower and other flame abilities make the Bounty Hunter the class with best fighting animations ever. End of story

Edited July 22, 2013 by Schanez

[Kazubaii]

As a latecomer to this awesome game( inside my first 2 month sub), and the Powertech I have just started is my second character (Jugg was first), I wouldn't mind seeing a few changes to some animations. In particular, maybe move the rail shot ability into the pistol(might envolve renaming skill idk) so you get to use the pistol as a regular and useful contributer in your rotation. And maybe change the rocket punch into a a jab or upper cut that doesn't have me jumping up and down.

 

I know these are quiet insignificant compared to what all you experienced and clearly more knowledgeable players want done, but I'm just throwing my 2 cents in anyways lol

 

PS I would actually prefer if instead of a pistol, we had some sort of gauntlet mod item there, and the class became very much a melee/10 metres one, with no longer range offence skills in the setup, but I suspect that not on agenda.

[oaceen]

my powertech is only lv13 or so, but my main is a commando, and there has been a recent discussion on assault plastique (thermal detonator) over there, and i thought i would chime in here as well to share the discussion.

 

a lot of people agree that the current iteration of TD just isn't that great. it's great for PVE i think, but probably would have been a lot better if there was no change to CGC.

 

i have to say though that only a few people are involved in the commando discussion, but one person disagrees with everything i say, and just wants TD to be restored to the way it was, while another person feels that it's more viable to go with a hybrid spec, so why bother adding synergy to the skill (this is for PVE. i think he and a lot of other people agree that the spec is not very viable for PVP).

not a lot of other people are really commenting one it from what i can see though. not like in this thread.

 

 

one of my suggestions was that, since the overall damage was increased, simply restoring its original damage and the remaining damage be a 6s dot, so it's a lot more bursty while still applying a burn.

 

when the discussion was first brought up on the PTS, i believe the initial argument was that it wasn't a good enough 'carrot' to go full assault, and i offered that it didn't have much synergy with the tree.

it gets a 30% crit multiplier (and later they added the 6% damage boost from power bracer)

in contrast, flame burst gets a boost to damage, crit multiplier, crit chance, has a chance to trigger CGC and reset RS

 

for mercs, power shot gets pretty similar bonuses as well, and also a damage bonus to burning targets

 

so giving TD any one of those effects i think could help give it synergy with the tree: triggering CGC, having a chance to reset RS, or the kinetic portion benefiting from rain of fire or burnout.

 

i like some of the other suggestions mentioned in this thread such as an armor penetration buff for RS while the burn is present (this of course fits more with PT i think, since you guys had your RS' armor pen decreased)

 

 

i also think that taking TD also means taking 2 useless points for PVE (and to a lesser extent, in PVP), so that would need to be addressed as well imo to make going full pyrotech is an actual viable build.

 

 

 

so, with that said, here's the question i would pose to the devs (quoted from commando thread and translated for imperial terms)

that said, i think wording this question to the devs would be something like: it was argued on 2.0 testing that TD wasn't enough of a carrot to go full pyrotech, leading to a lot of hybrid builds. the change, i think, was intended to be an answer to that. if that is so, do the devs feel it was a viable change, or does the original argument still hold true?

if that wasn't the reason, then what was the reasoning behind the change to TD (and CGC)?

Edited July 22, 2013 by oaceen

[Aelaias]

Pyro/assault puts out a decent burst... on those occasions when there are several crits within the damage stack. The damage problem is due to the fact that the damage is only acceptable when you get crits. At all other times it's crap. Due to the necessity of using many skills to stack for a full burst the resource bar can easily run dry trying to down a single target on your own (incorrect play style some may say and I agree but often unavoidable). That's another issue.

 

What I feel would help the class in the dps area is a skill which lowers the cooldown of the 15 sec crit chance buff on being hit or on some ability use and lowering the cost of the skills across the board across the board. In particular the much lamented long dot which if you are not using during a full burst rotation you are doing it wrong. It costs too much and runs for too long doing too little damage while increasing chances of it being cleansed

 

I am actually ok with the damage assault/pyro does at this time. It is comparable to other classes and can put out a good burst. It is also a great adjunct to combat/carnage which does not have hard stuns but has mobility and health debuff to go with great single target dps. I also have done very well when doubling up with concealement when taking out heals. What I am NOT ok with is the spectacularly ****** defensives the class have for the now very commonplace dps of the spec. The class as a whole and certainly assault/pyro NEEDS and must get another high value defensive cooldown.

 

Finally, MOAR missiles for all specs.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Aelaias

[Zoom_VI]

I like the idea of adding something on EF or HO. I would like to add that flame engine can be replaced by something else as it is not viable for pvp. Staying alive is important than a quick fluff damage on an 18 sec lockout.

 

flame engine work wonders for AoE threat in PvE content, no to mention its a huge QoL thing for just doing dailies, I would be very very unhappy if it where removed. Also for PvP all tank damage is fluff anyway, I don't see the problem, particularly considering its the ST dps equivalent of HiB.

[Evuo]

flame engine work wonders for AoE threat in PvE content, no to mention its a huge QoL thing for just doing dailies, I would be very very unhappy if it where removed. Also for PvP all tank damage is fluff anyway, I don't see the problem, particularly considering its the ST dps equivalent of HiB.

 

Personally, I just dislike the thought of robbing skills from another spec. They already did this we HO without giving anything unique back.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Evuo

[Zoom_VI]

Personally, I just dislike the thought of robbing skills from another spec. They already did this we HO without giving anything unique back.

 

^^ this pretty much sums up what I was trying to say, apologies if my original post was unclear

[Brunner_Venda]

Personally, I just dislike the thought of robbing skills from another spec. They already did this we HO without giving anything unique back.

 

No, they took energy rebounder away from pyro and gave it to AP.

 

It's unique. It mitigates a lot of damage. Shield is usually available when you need it. It's an awesome ability, less mitigation than oil slick, but it moves with you.

 

What did pyrotechs get? Other than robbed and nerfed?

[Evuo]

No, they took energy rebounder away from pyro and gave it to AP

 

What do you mean "no", it happened? HO was taken away as a skill point and given as a based ability to all members of the subclass.

 

There are other examples but that is just the one I chose to use.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Evuo

[Zoom_VI]

No, they took energy rebounder away from pyro and gave it to AP.

 

It's unique. It mitigates a lot of damage. Shield is usually available when you need it. It's an awesome ability, less mitigation than oil slick, but it moves with you.

 

What did pyrotechs get? Other than robbed and nerfed?

 

See, this is one of the reasons I do not believe Flame engine should be taken away from Shieldtech, it gimps the tree and BW will hardly give us something better. AP needs its own solution.

[Brunner_Venda]

What do you mean "no", it happened? HO was taken away as a skill point and given as a based ability to all members of the subclass.

 

There are other examples but that is just the one I chose to use.

 

I mean 'no' you DID get something unique in return for sharing HO. And I stress that - SHARING. You still get the skill, it's not like they took it away.

 

AP got the best defensive CD in any of the PT trees from the pyro tree - energy rebounder. It makes the spec ridiculously survivable.

 

What did Pyro get for a defensive CD? Every tree should have at least one.

 

If AP needs anything, it's a little more burst and damage. AP should have a chance to hit for at least 6K. The best attack CD's (rail shot and immolate) need a shorter CD, like 10 seconds.

[ceelaniri]

What did Pyro get for a defensive CD? Every tree should have at least one.

 

Arguably, Degauss and Automated Defense were "reworked"

[Brunner_Venda]

Arguably, Degauss and Automated Defense were "reworked"

 

Don't get me started. Degauss would be useful if we didn't already have HO. Automated defenses? LOL! Where's the 'defense' part of it? Kolto overload sucks ***. It heals you right up to one-hit execute move range! Bio-derp screwed the pooch on that one.

 

Generally I consider 'defense' CD's as something that prevents or mitigates damage. Neither of those CD's do that.

 

Back to AP. Love the spec, but it needs more burst! It doesn't get the job done in PVP. I play it often, and switch to pyro out of frustration because of the bad damage.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Brunner_Venda

[ceelaniri]

Don't get me started. Degauss would be useful if we didn't already have HO. Automated defenses? LOL! Where's the 'defense' part of it? Kolto overload sucks ***. It heals you right up to one-hit execute move range! Bio-derp screwed the pooch on that one.

 

Generally I consider 'defense' CD's as something that prevents or mitigates damage. Neither of those CD's do that.

 

Back to AP. Love the spec, but it needs more burst! It doesn't get the job done in PVP. I play it often, and switch to pyro out of frustration because of the bad damage.

 

I know that they re crap but they are still defensive CDs.

 

Some people would argue that Degauss let you get away from a difficult situation (i.e. allow you to remove a root and use LOS, thus preventing potential incoming dmg) and they would also say that Automated Defense let you use Kolto Overload more often which, whatever how bad it is, still heal you once below 30%.

 

I am aware of their deficiencies and would be more than happy to get them upgraded to a respectable level (i.e. a heal on each DOT crit for Automated Defense, got no real idea for Degauss atm).

[Evuo]

I just want to stress the scope of this "skill robbing" isn't limited to a certain advanced class or specialization. Since this is the powertech forum, I used a powertech example. I do not like it if I feel they weren't adequately compensated. This opinion is my own and I accept others may disagree with me.

 

I mean 'no' you DID get something unique in return for sharing HO. And I stress that - SHARING. You still get the skill, it's not like they took it away.

 

 

That's were I'll disagree on the term unique or one of a kind. That ability defined the spec prior to 2.0 in my opinion. Arsenal Mercenary has the exact same skill point.