BIOWARE: Feedback Regarding Legacy Levels

[Superman_AZ]

You'll have to excuse the blood covered faces of some folks here. You see, they've been beating their head against the wall making suggestions and requests along these lines for far longer than your recent return to the game. They've become a bit jaded and resentful as a result.

 

Your vitality is refreshing, but it's akin to new guy showing up to a labor camp and shouting "ok, guys! Let's roll up our sleeves and get er done!"

My goal is certainly not to be the guy that gets under their skin. My goal was to be more like the Andy Dufresne character in The Shawshank Redemption. Just a guy who got didn't believe in letting the system make the rules, and who was willing to challenge authority in his own way. He wasn't a loud or violent guy, in fact, quite the opposite. Eventually it paid off for him, and those around him.

 

I'm not asking the fellas to roll up their sleeves and get 'er done. I'm asking the fellas to voice their ideas and see if we can make something happen. I'm not trying to affect hope, I'm trying to effect change. There is a difference

[Benfynyn]

My goal is certainly not to be the guy that gets under their skin. My goal was to be more like the Andy Dufresne character in The Shawshank Redemption.

 

I LOL'ed at that. Basically, that puts SWTOR in the position of the corrupt prison.

[curtkram]

i think there is a bigger picture that you're missing. it's not just about legacy, this legacy problem is a small part of a larger problem. yes, we care about legacy. we care about the whole game. the 'cake' is the entirety of the playable content. legacy is a benchmark for people who play the game. the cartel market should supplement the playable content of the game with cosmetic items, not overtake or replace the game.

 

how about, at legacy level 50 everything in the cartel market is free, to reduce the developer's incentive to keep pushing crap into the cartel market and to reduce the incentive to continue to push the p2w line as far as they can. this is more reasonable than it may first sound, because they did suggest the whole game would be available to subscribers. making the whole game available only to subscribers over legacy 50 is actually a pretty big compromise on the player's side. let's try to encourage bioware to create a good game that people want to subscribe to so they can profit off subscriptions like they originally intended, and use the cartel market to supplement that profit as needed.

 

if they are failing so bad, and are so financially desperate that it's truly not feasible for them to release a carthar race available to subscribers the same as every other race ever introduced in the game, then i hope hickman communicates that in his next state of the game address. my assumption is that his game is not failing so bad that they really need to rely this heavily on the cartel market. if my assumption is wrong, i will reassess my opinion.

[Superman_AZ]

I LOL'ed at that. Basically, that puts SWTOR in the position of the corrupt prison.

You are not wrong. They are the "institution" to which we are all a part of. We are in their world. But, we don't have to sit idly and take it. We can tell them how we feel, and how our money would go well with another MMO if things don't change. If every subbed player went F2P for just 30 days, and didn't buy a single thing in the CM, they would snap to like a 3 start just walked in the room. Sadly, organizing something of that magnitude is hardly a cake walk. So, instead, we have to get their attention the best way we can and settle for small victories.

 

I would like to see LL40+ get certain concessions. Even if it is nothing more than a 75% cred savings in the Legacy window for all unlocks... and at 50... FREE. The ability to completely unlock alts at lvl 1 for NO COST would garner a LOT of play time, and a ton of alts who would ALL need something from the CM eventually. By giving Legacies free unlocks, they would make MORE in sales from the CM for the Alts. THAT should garner their attention and provide a service to and a reason for Legacy 40/50s.

[Tatanka]

My goal is certainly not to be the guy that gets under their skin. My goal was to be more like the Andy Dufresne character in The Shawshank Redemption. Just a guy who got didn't believe in letting the system make the rules, and who was willing to challenge authority in his own way. He wasn't a loud or violent guy, in fact, quite the opposite. Eventually it paid off for him, and those around him.

 

I'm not asking the fellas to roll up their sleeves and get 'er done. I'm asking the fellas to voice their ideas and see if we can make something happen. I'm not trying to affect hope, I'm trying to effect change. There is a difference

Andy escaped to another MMO after he realized he really couldn't change the system.

[Superman_AZ]

Andy escaped to another MMO after he realized he really couldn't change the system.

But the system did change in the end, and even though he was not there to see it, those left behind reaped the benefits.

[Tatanka]

But the system did change in the end, and even though he was not there to see it, those left behind reaped the benefits.

Not certain which movie you watched, but Andy wasn't able to affect change until he destroyed the system itself. Unless you are secretly moonlighting as an EA exec, I'm doubting you can provide the poison pill to BW to change the system the way Andy was able to tip off authorities to the corruption at Shawshank.

[Drew_Braxton]

Increase legacy level cap. Level 50 was so 2012. Throw in a cap of level 60 with a level 4 piloting or direct trip from ship to planet when you get there. Would be a nice convenience item.

[CommanderKeeva]

Increase legacy level cap. Level 50 was so 2012. Throw in a cap of level 60 with a level 4 piloting or direct trip from ship to planet when you get there. Would be a nice convenience item.

 

Yeah, I reached Legacy 50 in early April 2012 on two level50 characters by doing more dailies than I care to admit. Just imagine the amount of Legacy experience wasted since then. I'd like to see more Legacy levels added, but the thing is, there's no incentive to reach ANY legacy level as you can buy your way past all the unlock requirements, save for the ship pass. That alone is hardly enticing people put in the kind of effort that is required to reach Legacy 50.

 

They could have (and by all definitions SHOULD HAVE) increased the Legacy level to 55 along with the level raise in 2.0. The fact that they didn't just shows that they don't consider Legacy an important feature anymore. Had they increased the max Legacy level to 55, they would have had to put in stuff for Legacies above 25, other than that one ship pass.

 

The truth is that the Legacy system can and should offer some competition to the Cartel Market, a second viable option, rewards for playing the game. But Bioware does not want to see competition of any sorts against the Cartel Market. They are not interested in players earning their rewards. They think playing is its own reward and anything beyond that has to be purchased. I'm pretty convinced that if it was possible, they'd just revoke the entire Legacy system and force everyone to acquire everything solely through paying above the subscription fee with Cartel Coins.

 

My best guess is that the best we can hope for the legacy is a bone now and then like Treek, but a bone that heavily favors the Cartel market anyway for both subscribers and free-to-play players.

[Ryluk_Shouja]

While I could wish for a nice looking set of adaptive armour, one for each class, unique and only available at LL40...let's be realistic. I think that high legacy credit discounts is a good idea. For example, if you have 10 levels above the legacy requirement, 25% off the price. 20 levels, 50%. LL50 could be an automatic 65% discount on legacy unlocks (credits only, CCs would still be full price). Other than that, legacy only companion customizations would be cool.

[dscount]

It's all MUTE at this point. Legacy was a great idea that had a crappy implementation.

 

The fact you can completely BYPASS the EWOK's requirement for Legacy 40 with Cartel Coins is a BAD MOVE if you ask me. But it's the cash cow for BW/EA and doubt its going to change.

 

Thanks for the Legacy 40 cap on CRED's ONLY! (Yes I'm level 50 Legacy and YES I would like to see more rewards for Legacy levels much like VIP's would like to see more stuff show up)

[curtkram]

as i recall, after andy left for a new MMO, he got most of the staff at the prison fired. that's the extent of "changing the sytstem."

 

pretty sure that staff was replaced with a new prison staff, which the movie didn't get into. we don't know if the new people were better or worse, since the main character gave up on that MMO and didn't care anymore.

 

already happened here. we're the prisoners who were left behind, and now superman is trying to write the sequel.

 

an endless cycle of getting the staff fired isn't as useful as getting this staff to fix the game.

[Andryah]

It's all MUTE at this point. Legacy was a great idea that had a crappy implementation.

 

True. But it was bad before cartel coins ever existed. It was a perk system launched with heavy credit taxation embedded in it. If you did the time, you should not have to pay a dime. I don't know whose brilliant idea it was to tax Legacy unlocks.. but hopefully they don't let them near the game decision table anymore.

 

But let's not mix and confuse this with faux competition with the CM and cartel coins. They are a totally different part of the game serving a different segment of the community.

 

Legacy was a carrot for veterans, to encourage them to become even more veteran rather then /quit when the game was still subscriber only.

 

The game has move on from the subscriber only model.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Andryah

[curtkram]

It's all MUTE at this point.

 

fwiw, it's all "moot"

[Superman_AZ]

as i recall, after andy left for a new MMO, he got most of the staff at the prison fired. that's the extent of "changing the sytstem."

 

pretty sure that staff was replaced with a new prison staff, which the movie didn't get into. we don't know if the new people were better or worse, since the main character gave up on that MMO and didn't care anymore.

 

already happened here. we're the prisoners who were left behind, and now superman is trying to write the sequel.

 

an endless cycle of getting the staff fired isn't as useful as getting this staff to fix the game.

It was merely an analogy, and one that you are pedantically going overboard with. I am not trying to get anyone fired. I am simply trying to make a statement which will benefit others. Legacies deserve attention. What kind of attention, and how much, is beyond anyone's control except BW.

 

They are never going to remove the CM. So, now the question remains, how do we improve the situation for high level legacies without disrupting their cashflow?

[Andryah]

fwiw, it's all "moot"

 

Indeed.

 

Would be better however if it was mute as well.

[Superman_AZ]

fwiw, it's all "moot"

You enjoy correcting others, don't you?

[curtkram]

You enjoy correcting others, don't you?

 

not particularly. it's just that particular word is apparently not taught in schools very often, or at least not within whatever education system the person i was responding to is/was involved in. i think it would be a safe assumption they heard it in conversation, and are using it based on the context they heard it. i am merely trying to help by supplementing their education; now that they know the word they are using is different from "mute," they can look it up and know it's proper usage. not that the original usage is wrong, but learning a word from context is different than learning what a word actually means. everyone reading this who didn't know "moot" is a word can benefit.

 

"mute" was not a typo. if we all did our best to learn new things it would be a better world. i'm just trying to help, and asking nothing in return. if it was simply because i like correcting others, i would use capital letters and not leave myself open to correction as often as i do.

[JetAten]

I don't see the big deal about Legacy. The rewards are relatively minor.

[Superman_AZ]

I don't see the big deal about Legacy. The rewards are relatively minor.

It's less about rewards, and more about recognition. Legacy 40+ wants some type of tangible "pat on the back" for their efforts. I don't blame them, but I cannot help either. Ultimately, it is in BW's hands to determine the best course of action for rewarding Legacies. Personally, I liked my idea of Legacy perks discounted and then made free. So you get a 25% discount at 20, 50% Discount at 30, 75% discount at 40, and then all perks are Free at 50. This would incentivize the leveling of legacies if for no other reason than to have a title and free access to all legacy perks on alts.

 

Also, Legacies should be ACCOUNT wide, and not SERVER specific. If they can achieve it in WoW, they can certainly pull it off here

[cjewison]

Are Legacy levels added across servers? I am guessing not.

[Superman_AZ]

Are Legacy levels added across servers? I am guessing not.

Unfortunately no. They are per server, rather than per account.

[Ratajack]

not particularly. it's just that particular word is apparently not taught in schools very often, or at least not within whatever education system the person i was responding to is/was involved in. i think it would be a safe assumption they heard it in conversation, and are using it based on the context they heard it. i am merely trying to help by supplementing their education; now that they know the word they are using is different from "mute," they can look it up and know it's proper usage. not that the original usage is wrong, but learning a word from context is different than learning what a word actually means. everyone reading this who didn't know "moot" is a word can benefit.

 

"mute" was not a typo. if we all did our best to learn new things it would be a better world. i'm just trying to help, and asking nothing in return. if it was simply because i like correcting others, i would use capital letters and not leave myself open to correction as often as i do.

 

Ironically, that one word "mute" is a very real RL example of what is currently happening to this game.

 

I'm making a general analogy, and not directing anything at any specific persons.

 

Student shows up at school, but does no homework, classwork, puts no effort into actually learning. Student can't spell, read or even do simple math but gets promoted to the next grade due to "no child gets left behind" and "it's not fair to hold Johnny back". Johnny has not met the requirements to be promoted, but the requirements get waived due to complainers.

 

Player logs into game every day, but doesn't really put any effort into the game. Player has low legacy level, let's say 5 or 6. Player sees new item available to high level legacies, and decides he wants this new shiny. Player does not meet the requirement to obtain this new shiny, so he complains "it's not fair, let me have it without having to meet that requirement" and the requirement gets waived.

[Ratajack]

Legacy level has to have some recognition but in any case no legacy level has to limit new player from game play.

So pets, titles, mounts, armor/weapon shells & everything that have different but equal analog in game - will be very good.

 

I think legacy levels should lead to UNIQUE and otherwise unobtainable items. There should not be any recolors made available. IF someone wants that new shiny, they can get to whatever legacy level is required to obtain it, whether that will take 2 days, 2 months or 2 years.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Ratajack

[Superman_AZ]

Player logs into game every day, but doesn't really put any effort into the game. Player has low legacy level, let's say 5 or 6. Player sees new item available to high level legacies, and decides he wants this new shiny. Player does not meet the requirement to obtain this new shiny, so he complains "it's not fair, let me have it without having to meet that requirement" and the requirement gets waived.

 

Going Free to play and offering a cash market is a mistake in any MMO. WoW seems to be the only one still doing it right. Don't blame players, blame a failed company that now sees all new "content" as new "profit" in their cash market. Don't hate the players... hate the game.