We Need Clarification

[Hessen]

I remember when all this was orange pixels.

[Andryah]

A unique legacy item that the "have to have it now" crowd can complain about NOT getting and whine for it to be made available for CC's?

 

I guess you did not actually read his thread. If you had, you would not have made this reply.

[Andryah]

I remember when all this was orange pixels.

 

Wasn't it "pixel" singular, not "pixels" plural?

[astrobearx]

I'm glad news outlet have picked it up http://kotaku.com/ewoks-for-sale-outrages-some-star-wars-the-old-republi-687732035

 

Now let see if that will not get Bioware's attention

 

....

 

my honest to god reaction when i finish reading that article

 

 

it MUST be a very slow news day on kotaku for this to a headliner.

[Ratajack]

Nonsequitur, absurd, and weaksauce for your complaint.

 

BIS gear and autoleveling are not fluff and are not QoL by any normal (ie: non-absurd) reasoning by a sane MMO player.

 

Stop using absurd comparisons to make your bitterness known. We already know you are bitter about this.

 

The real question for you, IMO, should be... what are you personally going to do about it? Suck up the cupcake, leave town, or just sit in your chair and shake and shiver about it and complain in virtual form?

 

Your definition of P2W:

 

 

P2W requires that 1) something be accessible only through a cash shop (which is not true here) AND 2) provides a winning advantage over other players (which again, is not true here).

 

 

My definition was in two parts, where both parts were required to meet the test, and followed the classic definition of P2W that has been around from years now. What was so hard to understand about it?

 

 

BIS gear and max level characters do not meet EITHER of your requirements, as both can be obtained by in game methods and therefore are NOT limited to the cash shop, and neither gives a "winning advantage" over other players since anyone can obtain either if they put in the effort. Therefore, by your definition, selling these items on the CM would NOT be P2W.

[idnewton]

Are you people still arguing about this? I thought this discussion was done with the confirmation.

 

There is some additional confirmation to be given, such as the Cartel Coin cost of Treek, how Bioware responds to our concerns on the issue, etc.

[Andryah]

I'm glad news outlet have picked it up http://kotaku.com/ewoks-for-sale-outrages-some-star-wars-the-old-republi-687732035

 

Now let see if that will not get Bioware's attention

 

LOL... if you are serious.. then I don't even know what to say other then... good luck with that Skippy.

 

The article is simply echoing the discussion on the forum.. no more.. no less. I'm pretty sure Bioware has already read and dismissed this latest rage_de_jour in general discussion my friend. But hey... don't let me be a buzz-kill on your personal crusade.

 

On a lighter note.. I see they must be short of news.. as this article is so new.. it quoted me on something I said just today in the forum...speaking on behalf of the sane people of the forum.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Andryah

[Andryah]

Your definition of P2W:

 

 

 

 

 

 

BIS gear and max level characters do not meet EITHER of your requirements, as both can be obtained by in game methods and therefore are NOT limited to the cash shop, and neither gives a "winning advantage" over other players since anyone can obtain either if they put in the effort. Therefore, by your definition, selling these items on the CM would NOT be P2W.

 

I do not see your point. My definition only echos the classic broad base definition of P2W and it stands on it's own.

 

Why? Because IF it's BiS then it is by definition best in slot. If it's best in slot and in the CM.. then it's can't be in game because it's BiS and in the CM. [Like how STO does it's capital ships...derp!] How silly and contrived can you possibly be here?

 

But then again.. your entire faux-desire that they put BiS gear and insta-55 tokens in the CM is completely contrived, hyperbolic, and insincere anyway.. isn't it? So basically.. you are eating your own entrails in the discussion now.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Andryah

[Andryah]

There is some additional confirmation to be given, such as...... how Bioware responds to our concerns on the issue, etc.

 

They already responded. Some did not like the answer... melt downs in the forum ensued.... most people moved on.. some people fell into a ball on the floor and went catatonic.

 

This too shall pass. Every rage and indignation in the forums for the last 15 months has passed... and the game is still here and doing well, and players are having fun...lots and lots of players (more then a million, ~500K of them subscribers, based on the most recent analysts call). The minority interest that is not having fun, yet clearly still subscribing since they are posting... they are a mystery.

 

You are right about the CC cost being unknown still.. but that was not the clarification requested by the OP.. and we all know they are going to tell us... eventually.... and it won't be negotiable either... you either pay it or you don't, or pay with credits.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Andryah

[Ratajack]

I do not see your point. My definition only echos the classic broad base definition of P2W and it stands on it's own.

 

Why? Because IF it's BiS then it is by definition best in slot. If it's best in slot and in the CM.. then it's can't be in game because it's BiS and in the CM. [Like how STO does it's capital ships...derp!] How silly and contrived can you possibly be here?

 

But then again.. your entire faux-desire that they put BiS gear and insta-55 tokens in the CM is completely contrived, hyperbolic, and insincere anyway.. isn't it? So basically.. you are eating your own entrails in the discussion now.

 

BIS gear is BIS gear, no matter HOW you obtain it. If they sold the exact same Kell Dragon gear that drops in OPS on the CM, would that make it any LESS BIS? I think not. It would simply provide an alternate means of obtaining that BIS gear, much like using CC's is an ALTERNATE means of obtaining the ewok companion.

[Andryah]

BIS gear is BIS gear, no matter HOW you obtain it. If they sold the exact same Kell Dragon gear that drops in OPS on the CM, would that make it any LESS BIS? I think not. It would simply provide an alternate means of obtaining that BIS gear, much like using CC's is an ALTERNATE means of obtaining the ewok companion.

 

Tell you what pal.. get back to me when you can post this without a dozen "IFs"... you know.. when there actually are BiS gear items in the CM...not just your fantastic dreams and illusions.

 

I'm not going to wait around for this though... as you and I will be old and gray before that actually happens. And you know it.

 

So.. please PM me when you have fact rather then contrived fantasy.. and we can then have real discussion rather then endlessly chasing your circular fantasies of comparing fluff and QoL content with BiS end game rading and PvP gear and pretending said BiS gear is in the CM for sale to level 1 gerbils.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Andryah

[Ratajack]

Tell you what pal.. get back to me when you can post this without a dozen "IFs"... you know.. when there actually are BiS gear items in the CM...not just your fantastic dreams and illusions.

 

I'm not going to wait around for this though... as you and I will be old and gray before that actually happens. And you know it.

 

So.. please PM me when you have fact rather then contrived fantasy.. and we can then have real discussion rather then endlessly chasing your circular fantasies of comparing fluff and QoL content with BiS end game rading and PvP gear and pretending said BiS gear is in the CM for sale to level 1 gerbils.

 

 

I find it amusing watching you defend BW's cash grab when it comes to the ewok by declaring it is not P2W while at the same time trying to defend BW's NOT selling BIS gear or max level characters even though by the very definition you used to defend the sale of the ewok, selling BIS gear or max level characters would also not be P2W.

[Andryah]

while at the same time trying to defend BW's NOT selling BIS gear or max level characters even though by the very definition you used to defend the sale of the ewok, selling BIS gear or max level characters would also not be P2W.

 

Accept I'm not. You are just twisting and distorting with fantasy to try to make it look that way because you think it somehow helps your failed case for why Treek in the CM is somehow P2W for a cash grab motive. Give it up.. it won't work and nobody is going to buy in to your attempts at distortion and mis-representation.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Andryah

[Cmder-Shepard]

Glad I am not bothering to buy the Ewok seems like a waste of money to me.

[Hessen]

Glad I am not bothering to buy the Ewok seems like a waste of money to me.

 

Yubnub.

[grombrinda]

You don't really think people are going to unsub over this do you?

 

Not over this one thing but rather all the tiny things that add up.

[GhostShaman]

If you wish to purchase Treek using Cartel Coins there is no Legacy level requirement. The Legacy level requirement is only if you wish to use credits.

 

-eric

 

And that is total garbage. Another cash grab. This game is slowly slipping away again. Just make the damned thing pay to win already. What is the point of legacy anymore.

[daclouddwalker]

And that is total garbage. Another cash grab. This game is slowly slipping away again. Just make the damned thing pay to win already. What is the point of legacy anymore.

 

How is it P2W exactly? does Treek do something special that i dont know about? It just seems like fluff to me.. atleast we are getting another companion and quicker than most probably thought to boot. I know some people are frustrated with the methods but they're giving us options to please everyone.. I'll probably get her the good ol fashion way just to save the CC for something useful on the market but i have friends who arent close to legacy level 40 but would still be thrilled to have an Ewok as a pet.. c'mon guys just be happy we're all getting this.. im excited.

[GhostShaman]

How is it P2W exactly? does Treek do something special that i dont know about? It just seems like fluff to me.. atleast we are getting another companion and quicker than most probably thought to boot. I know some people are frustrated with the methods but they're giving us options to please everyone.. I'll probably get her the good ol fashion way just to save the CC for something useful on the market but i have friends who arent close to legacy level 40 but would still be thrilled to have an Ewok as a pet.. c'mon guys just be happy we're all getting this.. im excited.

 

I want a game to be challenging. I want to earn something. I want perks to reward me for the time and effort I put in. That sense of achievement. Not something yet again that is, well its in the CM pay $20 or $40 and get it without earning. I never said it was P2W, but I said just go make the game that way anyways, since this is the direction that this company is horribly going. You want to know what the the CM is, its the NGE from SWG. I have been playing since closed beta and I am at my whits end with this ****. If there was something that peaked my interest more, I would be playing it. Until then I am still playing this for now.

[LordArtemis]

There are going to be people that use the P2W phrase no matter what is done. It is a derogatory term used by those that do not care for the market, generally speaking.

 

I believe the majority of players at present, though some may have some concerns, is pretty much ok with how things are set up at the moment. There is a small group of traditionalists, however, that is still trying to hold on to the past.

 

It is interesting how things have been reversed....at launch it was the other way around, traditionalists ruled the day and casuals were the minority and left the game in droves IMO. That made the game fall flat on it's face.

 

The only way it can compete in the modern market is to continue it's steady march toward casual appeal, even if that is to the detriment of the traditional playerbase.

 

This is not even close to the NGE from SWG. If anything, the game was the NGE at launch and it is moving toward the pre CU/NGE now.

 

The NGE change was made to appeal to traditional MMO players like those that play WoW. The change was disastrous for SWG. This game's state was disastrous for it's long term health at launch. It now has a chance as it moves to widen it's casual appeal.

 

Like it or not, good or bad this is probably the future for this title. At the end of the day it has to be able to pay it's bills.

Edited July 7, 2013 by LordArtemis

[daclouddwalker]

I want a game to be challenging. I want to earn something. I want perks to reward me for the time and effort I put in. That sense of achievement. Not something yet again that is, well its in the CM pay $20 or $40 and get it without earning. I never said it was P2W, but I said just go make the game that way anyways, since this is the direction that this company is horribly going. You want to know what the the CM is, its the NGE from SWG. I have been playing since closed beta and I am at my whits end with this ****. If there was something that peaked my interest more, I would be playing it. Until then I am still playing this for now.

 

Well, you're still welcome to "earn" her if thats what you desire, im sure you're at legacy 40 by now if you've been playing this long and im sure you have the creds to spare.. or work for em by doing the dailies

 

However... the way that another player obtains her shouldnt impact you in any way(Im sure its annoying) but you cant be mad at options.. I wish the game wasnt headed in this direction and so dependent on the market but hey... it is what it is.

[Igax]

If you wish to purchase Treek using Cartel Coins there is no Legacy level requirement. The Legacy level requirement is only if you wish to use credits.

 

-eric

 

Why do you still have the legacy level at all? It means nothing, has no in game value at all. You have catered to the CM at every turn as near as I can tell. The only exclusive items in this game are in the Cartel Market and it is beyond disgusting.

[Mark-JPS]

There are going to be people that use the P2W phrase no matter what is done. It is a derogatory term used by those that do not care for the market, generally speaking.

 

I believe the majority of players at present, though some may have some concerns, is pretty much ok with how things are set up at the moment. There is a small group of traditionalists, however, that is still trying to hold on to the past.

 

It is interesting how things have been reversed....at launch it was the other way around, traditionalists ruled the day and casuals were the minority and left the game in droves IMO. That made the game fall flat on it's face.

 

The only way it can compete in the modern market is to continue it's steady march toward casual appeal, even if that is to the detriment of the traditional playerbase.

 

This is not even close to the NGE from SWG. If anything, the game was the NGE at launch and it is moving toward the pre CU/NGE now.

 

The NGE change was made to appeal to traditional MMO players like those that play WoW. The change was disastrous for SWG. This game's state was disastrous for it's long term health at launch. It now has a chance as it moves to widen it's casual appeal.

 

Like it or not, good or bad this is probably the future for this title. At the end of the day it has to be able to pay it's bills.

 

If this is the future of the title, then the so called "traditionalist" will leave the game as soon as the next MMO comes out. Unlike SWTOR, other MMOs still live by its tradition, that is earning stuff through in-game. As for myself, I will certainly move to the next MMO as soon as it's available (FFXIV, THe Elder Scrolls Online and WildStar).

 

Don't ever say the game is going to casual gamers. If SWTOR is really aimed for casuals, one of the things you should expect to see is drop in populations, after all casuals can't play for more than two or four hours a day right? They're casuals, they don't have the time to dedicate their time to play the game and grind.

 

The people that are against this are the minority who only goes to the forum. Try getting the pulse of people who are in the guild, who are spending hours doing raids and questing.

 

As I mentioned a lot of times, getting Treek is pay to win. You are bypassing the legacy requirement and by purchasing Treek, you are getting an extra companion that will help you "WIN" through crafting and giving you an advantage to send that companion out at early levels for missions

[GhostShaman]

There are going to be people that use the P2W phrase no matter what is done. It is a derogatory term used by those that do not care for the market, generally speaking.

 

I believe the majority of players at present, though some may have some concerns, is pretty much ok with how things are set up at the moment. There is a small group of traditionalists, however, that is still trying to hold on to the past.

 

It is interesting how things have been reversed....at launch it was the other way around, traditionalists ruled the day and casuals were the minority and left the game in droves IMO. That made the game fall flat on it's face.

 

The only way it can compete in the modern market is to continue it's steady march toward casual appeal, even if that is to the detriment of the traditional playerbase.

 

This is not even close to the NGE from SWG. If anything, the game was the NGE at launch and it is moving toward the pre CU/NGE now.

 

The NGE change was made to appeal to traditional MMO players like those that play WoW. The change was disastrous for SWG. This game's state was disastrous for it's long term health at launch. It now has a chance as it moves to widen it's casual appeal.

 

Like it or not, good or bad this is probably the future for this title. At the end of the day it has to be able to pay it's bills.

 

 

What does being a casual player have anything to do with any of this? So what you are saying is that casual players want everything handed to them, without having to work or experience any part of the game. Hey look more flashy stuff on the market lets buy it! If I wanted to play a game where you could pay for companions or pay to play dress up I would play *********** imvu. These traditionalist that you keep referring too just want an immersive game experience not more cash grabs. You will continue to see drop offs in subs if this crap keeps up.

[idnewton]

I want a game to be challenging. I want to earn something. I want perks to reward me for the time and effort I put in. That sense of achievement. Not something yet again that is, well its in the CM pay $20 or $40 and get it without earning. I never said it was P2W, but I said just go make the game that way anyways, since this is the direction that this company is horribly going. You want to know what the the CM is, its the NGE from SWG. I have been playing since closed beta and I am at my whits end with this ****. If there was something that peaked my interest more, I would be playing it. Until then I am still playing this for now.

 

What you want isn't what dictates something being P2W. It's bordering the line, but not because of a 'sense of achievement'. The fact that you can buy another companion with real money that has the universal crafting stats is the problem. Everything else is, indeed, fluff.

 

However, if the companion only costs a low triple-digit amount, like 200-350cc, I think it won't be too big of a deal. This isn't something to 'work towards', though. You want something challenging? Go do TFB NiM. Wait for SV NiM. There's a ton of new, interesting content coming. This is a minor part. Know how I know that? They didn't make a huge deal about the companion at all. It was sort of an afterthought.