GhostShaman Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Well, you're still welcome to "earn" her if thats what you desire, im sure you're at legacy 40 by now if you've been playing this long and im sure you have the creds to spare.. or work for em by doing the dailies However... the way that another player obtains her shouldnt impact you in any way(Im sure its annoying) but you cant be mad at options.. I wish the game wasnt headed in this direction and so dependent on the market but hey... it is what it is. Actually I had to take a few months off for work. I am legacy 25. I still think 40 should be a requirement. Again, no sense of accomplishment in this game. Just buy buy buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnewton Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Why do you still have the legacy level at all? It means nothing, has no in game value at all. You have catered to the CM at every turn as near as I can tell. The only exclusive items in this game are in the Cartel Market and it is beyond disgusting. Link me a Cartel Market Kell Dragon chestpiece next time you log in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daclouddwalker Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 If this is the future of the title, then the so called "traditionalist" will leave the game as soon as the next MMO comes out. Unlike SWTOR, other MMOs still live by its tradition, that is earning stuff through in-game. As for myself, I will certainly move to the next MMO as soon as it's available (FFXIV, THe Elder Scrolls Online and WildStar). Don't ever say the game is going to casual gamers. If SWTOR is really aimed for casuals, one of the things you should expect to see is drop in populations, after all casuals can't play for more than two or four hours a day right? They're casuals, they don't have the time to dedicate their time to play the game and grind. The people that are against this are the minority who only goes to the forum. Try getting the pulse of people who are in the guild, who are spending hours doing raids and questing. As I mentioned a lot of times, getting Treek is pay to win. You are bypassing the legacy requirement and by purchasing Treek, you are getting an extra companion that will help you "WIN" through crafting and giving you an advantage to send that companion out at early levels for missions Wait.. how is she P2W? you still only get to deploy 5 companions at one time and you wont have any crafting skills at the low levels so i dont see how she helps you "WIN"...just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Wait.. how is she P2W? you still only get to deploy 5 companions at one time and you wont have any crafting skills at the low levels so i dont see how she helps you "WIN"...just saying. Part of what makes it P2W is that you can BYPASS the legacy requirement by throwing money at BW. Paying to bypass a requirement sounds an awful lot like P2W, although it does not meet some people's definition of P2W. The strange thing is that those same people want to declare selling BIS gear and max level characters on the CM would be P2W, even though both of those can be obtained through in game means and would not meet their own definition of P2W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark-JPS Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 (edited) Wait.. how is she P2W? you still only get to deploy 5 companions at one time and you wont have any crafting skills at the low levels so i dont see how she helps you "WIN"...just saying. No at lower levels, you are limited to certain companions that you can send out for crafting missions. Also the crafting bonuses... ie. level 20, limited to two but around those level you only have 1 companion in your team, so with Treek, you are able to send him out and have the advantage. Treek has the same bonuses as HK-51 when it comes to missions and crafting. Unlike HK-51, you have to unlock him the hard way through end-game quest. Once you do, you are free to purchase his unlock for your low level alts. Also, Treek is not just a fluff character. If you have played her in the PTS and raised her affection, she'll have conversations that will give out story / lore details. Who knows in the future expansions, she might have some use or be part of the story Edited July 7, 2013 by Mark-JPS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daclouddwalker Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Part of what makes it P2W is that you can BYPASS the legacy requirement by throwing money at BW. Paying to bypass a requirement sounds an awful lot like P2W, although it does not meet some people's definition of P2W. The strange thing is that those same people want to declare selling BIS gear and max level characters on the CM would be P2W, even though both of those can be obtained through in game means and would not meet their own definition of P2W. Comparing gear and insta 55 to a companion thats fluff though?.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niklarus Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Wait.. how is she P2W? you still only get to deploy 5 companions at one time and you wont have any crafting skills at the low levels so i dont see how she helps you "WIN"...just saying. I don't understand it either. I'm at legacy 47 and my main has more than enough creds to toss 1 mil to a new alt who might want this psychotic little furball at his/her side from the get-go. HOWEVER, I don't see how even Charlie Sheen could describe paying Cartel Coins for Treek as "winning." Exactly what kind of victory is it? What exactly is The Prize being won? Can there be only one? Ahhhh...maybe I need to take another break from the forums before I concuss myself banging my head on my desk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark-JPS Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Comparing gear and insta 55 to a companion thats fluff though?.... Treek is NO WAY fluff. I suggest to try her out at the PTS. What makes her not FLUFF is: - She actually contributes to the lore of The Old Republic. Story-wise, she has an interesting one. You will get to know her of course by giving her gifts and having conversations with her on the ship. - Crafting bonuses that gives advantage to lower leveled people. As i said, HK-51 is an exception when used in lower leveled because before you get to unlock him, you will have to go earn him the hard way. Think of the companions other MMOs give out. They are fluff.. why? because they're just some kind of animal that doesn't contribute to the story of the game. And no, they dont have any bonuses that carries with them. What a fluff companion is... the pet that you get with no background story whatsoever. SWTOR is known for its storyline. If they make those animal pets as a companion, then yes, they're fluff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Comparing gear and insta 55 to a companion thats fluff though?.... The principle remains the same, although it is true they differ in degree. Both are still P2W. Paying to bypass a requirement is paying to bypass a requirement, whether that requirement be reaching legacy 40 to unlock a companion, running OPS to get BIS gear or taking the time to earn the XP to reach max level. As an example, it is any less theft if I put in for an hour overtime that I did not work than it would be if I stole $10000 from my employer? Both are stealing, although a lot of people would say that padding your time sheet is no big deal, but stealing $10000 is another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hessen Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Treek is definitely Fluff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daclouddwalker Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 The principle remains the same, although it is true they differ in degree. Both are still P2W. Paying to bypass a requirement is paying to bypass a requirement, whether that requirement be reaching legacy 40 to unlock a companion, running OPS to get BIS gear or taking the time to earn the XP to reach max level. As an example, it is any less theft if I put in for an hour overtime that I did not work than it would be if I stole $10000 from my employer? Both are stealing, although a lot of people would say that padding your time sheet is no big deal, but stealing $10000 is another story. I see where you're coming from with the whole paying to bypass a requirement but what i dont get is, how are you "winning"? with the gear and insta 55, you would be paying to skip the WHOLE process of leveling, or doing flashpoints and ops for gear but with a companion you're not really getting ahead of anyone.. thats just my opinion though, for what its worth i dont see the point of leaving the legacy restriction for those who elect not to pay with CC but i just dont see it as P2W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark-JPS Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 (edited) The principle remains the same, although it is true they differ in degree. Both are still P2W. Paying to bypass a requirement is paying to bypass a requirement, whether that requirement be reaching legacy 40 to unlock a companion, running OPS to get BIS gear or taking the time to earn the XP to reach max level. As an example, it is any less theft if I put in for an hour overtime that I did not work than it would be if I stole $10000 from my employer? Both are stealing, although a lot of people would say that padding your time sheet is no big deal, but stealing $10000 is another story. Yep, when you are bypassing the requirement set for the companion, you are winning ahead of someone. Think of the legacy level as an ordinary level. An example: Bioware wants to release this awesome and very rare weapon that you can get at level 60 (not legacy) and when unlocked, you will get all sorts of bonus and unlocks a part of lore of the game. Unfortunately, not everyone can get at level 60 right away because grinding is so much pain. So they decided to release this ticket through the Cartel Market that will automatically get you that awesome and very rare weapon. Assuming people who can't get to level 60 buy it that ticket on the CM, that will null the whole leveling process and in the end, they will get the item the easy way and will give them all sorts of bonus that others can't have unless you grind or buy em. Is this something everyone wants Bioware to pull in the future? Treek is a small thing but with t hem doing it now, it's not impossible for them to do it on other items Edited July 7, 2013 by Mark-JPS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 I see where you're coming from with the whole paying to bypass a requirement but what i dont get is, how are you "winning"? with the gear and insta 55, you would be paying to skip the WHOLE process of leveling, or doing flashpoints and ops for gear but with a companion you're not really getting ahead of anyone.. thats just my opinion though, for what its worth i dont see the point of leaving the legacy restriction for those who elect not to pay with CC but i just dont see it as P2W. I can't understand why some people can say that it's ok to pay to skip the WHOLE process of reaching legacy 40, but it's not ok to pay to skip the process of leveling or running OPS. In BOTH cases you are PAYING to skip a part of the game. The only difference is in the degree, just as the only difference between padding your time sheet and taking $1000 out of petty cash is in degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daclouddwalker Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 I can't understand why some people can say that it's ok to pay to skip the WHOLE process of reaching legacy 40, but it's not ok to pay to skip the process of leveling or running OPS. In BOTH cases you are PAYING to skip a part of the game. The only difference is in the degree, just as the only difference between padding your time sheet and taking $1000 out of petty cash is in degree. Hey i didnt say it was ok, I dont think there should be a restriction at all if folks can just buy it with CC. Im just saying that i dont see it as P2W or getting ahead of another player.. thats all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hessen Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 The principle remains the same, although it is true they differ in degree. Both are still P2W. Paying to bypass a requirement is paying to bypass a requirement, whether that requirement be reaching legacy 40 to unlock a companion, running OPS to get BIS gear or taking the time to earn the XP to reach max level. As an example, it is any less theft if I put in for an hour overtime that I did not work than it would be if I stole $10000 from my employer? Both are stealing, although a lot of people would say that padding your time sheet is no big deal, but stealing $10000 is another story. The difference in severity is not insignificant. You can apply logical premise to a lot of things in life, but the size of the impact affects ethics, morals and society expectations and standards. Basically, apply some common sense on top of logic. That being said, I have no problem in this or any other MMO with people paying for anything that bypasses what is basically timesink gated content. Bypassing skill related content is a bit different, but paying to get something because you don't have the time available to "earn" it, I have no problem with. It's like really wanting to listen to the last song on an album, but to be able to listen to it you have to listen to the whole album first. Some people have the time to listen to a whole album, others only have 5 minutes free. Both people have bought the album and in their eyes feel they should be allowed access to listen to it how they choose that means they get enjoyment from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 I see where you're coming from with the whole paying to bypass a requirement but what i dont get is, how are you "winning"? with the gear and insta 55, you would be paying to skip the WHOLE process of leveling, or doing flashpoints and ops for gear but with a companion you're not really getting ahead of anyone.. thats just my opinion though, for what its worth i dont see the point of leaving the legacy restriction for those who elect not to pay with CC but i just dont see it as P2W. You wouldn't be "winning" or getting ahead of anyone by buying BIS gear or that max level character if they offered it on the CM since anyone can reach the same status by in game methods. Everyone can obtain BIS gear and be geared equally to you by running OPS. Everyone can reach max level and be at the same level as you by taking the time to earn the XP needed to reach max level. So you are not "getting ahead" of anyone. You are simply paying to "have it now" without the time and effort required to obtain it by in game methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daclouddwalker Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 If all legacy levels were reset back to 0.. ok i'd say thats P2W for sure, but thats not the case here.. Im sure alot of people are already or close to 40 by now and those who are not are actually apart of the group of people who would have to buy it with CC to catch up.. if you want to work for it, heck by all means go ahead.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daclouddwalker Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 I just think theres a bigger picture here.... having options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 The difference in severity is not insignificant. You can apply logical premise to a lot of things in life, but the size of the impact affects ethics, morals and society expectations and standards. Basically, apply some common sense on top of logic. That being said, I have no problem in this or any other MMO with people paying for anything that bypasses what is basically timesink gated content. Bypassing skill related content is a bit different, but paying to get something because you don't have the time available to "earn" it, I have no problem with. It's like really wanting to listen to the last song on an album, but to be able to listen to it you have to listen to the whole album first. Some people have the time to listen to a whole album, others only have 5 minutes free. Both people have bought the album and in their eyes feel they should be allowed access to listen to it how they choose that means they get enjoyment from it. That is where you are wrong, IMO. Some things are as simple as black and white. The "grey" only comes from people trying to justify something. Theft is theft, no matter the value. As far as "paying to get something because you don't have the time available to 'earn' it" goes, NOBODY in this game has that excuse since there is NO time limit on unlocking the companion via legacy. EVERYBODY has the time to earn it, but some simply "have to have it now". There is a difference. You might have a point if BW said "this companion will only be available for one week and it will require legacy 40 to unlock OR the use of CC's". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark-JPS Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 (edited) I just think theres a bigger picture here.... having options. If the bigger picture to all of this is options, remove the legacy requirement and have everyone just buy it for 1,000,000 credits or get it on the CM. That way, it will not alienate those people who have worked hard. By sticking with that legacy requirement and allowing lower leveled or even new players get that companion in an instant is an insult to those who have played the game for a long time. Edited July 7, 2013 by Mark-JPS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daclouddwalker Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 If the bigger picture to all of this is options, remove the legacy requirement and have everyone just buy it for 1,000,000 credits. That way, it will not alienate those people who have worked hard. I agree that they should remove the legacy requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark-JPS Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 (edited) I agree that they should remove the legacy requirement. indeed, remove the legacy requirement to make it fair to everyone: veterans, elitist, new players, casuals, noobs. IT will be a fair game. Until that requirement is there, a lot of veterans who have been playing the game for a long time will think of it as P2W regardless of what everyone calls it. or if they really want to be fair, make TREEK a reputation reward for the bounty hunter event. Cuz having the HK customization as a legend reward isn't rewarding enough to those who have not gotten HK-51 Edited July 7, 2013 by Mark-JPS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 I just think theres a bigger picture here.... having options. I'm guessing that like me, you are nowhere near legacy 40, but unlike me, you are not willing to wait until you reach legacy 40 and "have to have it now". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demotivator Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 And that is that. Cartel Coin users, we have won. You win. But the game is losing once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hessen Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 That is where you are wrong, IMO. Some things are as simple as black and white. The "grey" only comes from people trying to justify something. Theft is theft, no matter the value. As far as "paying to get something because you don't have the time available to 'earn' it" goes, NOBODY in this game has that excuse since there is NO time limit on unlocking the companion via legacy. EVERYBODY has the time to earn it, but some simply "have to have it now". There is a difference. You might have a point if BW said "this companion will only be available for one week and it will require legacy 40 to unlock OR the use of CC's". Theft isn't theft regardless. Which is why there are different sentences and different types of theft. Depending on intent, value and a host of other circumstances. There are shades of grey when it comes to what is acceptable. And the content is gated by timesink, not a time window. To earn Legacy 40 you have to put in x amount of hours. For some that is a week, for others it's 2 years. Both have paid for the game itself, the question is, should people with different real life circumstances and priorities have different access to content. You and some others think yes, others think no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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