Raansu Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 I thought everyone hated ewoks? Most people do, but the issue is how they are handling the entire thing. May as well consider subscribers second class citizens. I've never seen a game with a hybrid model where subscribers get treated so poorly.
wainot-keel Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 Then why have the requirement at all? How *********** pointless. I think people are seeing this wrong. The main method to get Treek is to buy her with Cartel Coins. I bet that's BW's intention. Getting the companion with in-game creds with a legacy lvl 40 is the alternate method. Be thankful there is one.
Reno_Tarshil Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 Most people do, but the issue is how they are handling the entire thing. May as well consider subscribers second class citizens. I've never seen a game with a hybrid model where subscribers get treated so poorly. I'm a subscriber and I've yet to feel treated poorly, so please don't speak for everyone.
Raansu Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 I'm a subscriber and I've yet to feel treated poorly, so please don't speak for everyone. Then you are blind.
Reno_Tarshil Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 Then you are blind. No, I'm pretty shure I'm not blind. I mean would be hard to respond on a forum if I couldn't see what I'm doing or what people are saying.
Lyshar Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 I think people are seeing this wrong. The main method to get Treek is to buy her with Cartel Coins. I bet that's BW's intention. Getting the companion with in-game creds with a legacy lvl 40 is the alternate method. Be thankful there is one. It may be their intention, but that's not how they presented it. They presented it like it was going to be an addition to the Legacy. Some people started a petition (against forum rules last I checked) to get the cartel option. Eric says: "Don't worry, there will be a Cartel option". Concerned people ask if at least the legacy requirement stays in place for the cartel option. Eric says: "Don't be concerned, it'll be just Cartel Coins or legacy and credits", but only after a new thread is made. Concerned people Ask why and offer suggestions to improve it, make the legacy option at least a little special (like a legacy option only customization), we ask why the legacy system is even still in because it gets degraded the moment it gets more interesting. Eric won't respond... unless there's another new thread? Maybe time to make... ten?
astrobearx Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 I'm a subscriber and I've yet to feel treated poorly, so please don't speak for everyone. indeed.
AlexThomasG Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 It may be their intention, but that's not how they presented it. They presented it like it was going to be an addition to the Legacy. Some people started a petition (against forum rules last I checked) to get the cartel option. Eric says: "Don't worry, there will be a Cartel option". Concerned people ask if at least the legacy requirement stays in place for the cartel option. Eric says: "Don't be concerned, it'll be just Cartel Coins or legacy and credits", but only after a new thread is made. Concerned people Ask why and offer suggestions to improve it, make the legacy option at least a little special (like a legacy option only customization), we ask why the legacy system is even still in because it gets degraded the moment it gets more interesting. Eric won't respond... unless there's another new thread? Maybe time to make... ten? Umm if you really think its worth getting rid of the whole legacy system just because of this fluff companion then you are simply out of your mind. The legacy system has plenty of nice perks and absolutely is worth something in the game.
Lyshar Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 Umm if you really think its worth getting rid of the whole legacy system just because of this fluff companion then you are simply out of your mind. The legacy system has plenty of nice perks and absolutely is worth something in the game. No, I never said they should remove it, we want it to be more useful. If they at least added a customization in this case to those who got it from the legacy (unavailable if you spend CC on it), then the whole issue would be much less. Highest legacy level requirement I see if 25, and after that one thing it's 15... unless I made higher level global unlocks already, which I doubt were higher level than that. The intend was that they kept expanding on it, but for the most part they just dropped the required levels. Then they add something and demean it with a Cartel Market backdoor. So people ask for something to show you actually did something for it (like the unique customization suggestion), and/or make it more affordable as the required level is not the issue inside the legacy, just with the lack of it for the backdoor. My point with that post was that they presented it as a Legacy feature and then revealed the Cartel Backdoor, where the person I quoted said it was meant for Cartel in the first place and legacy being an offered alternative. Like I said, that may be (and probably is), but it's not presented like that officially (yet).
SithKoriandr Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 I'm sure that advice would go well with those calling us "lazy" and "have to have it now". Those looking down their noses at us because we didn't "earn" it, or have to put in hundreds of hours of gameplay to qualify for a PET of all things. I've done my best to not brag, but the bitter-brigade, being led by a certain person who has butted heads with me, in more than one thread, continues to push and push. I will gladly back down and apologize to anyone I may have offended... except him. I see no problem with players wanting their MMO to play more like a MMO. I'm a sub. None of my 8 characters are wearing chest pieces found in game (all off market/packs). In fact, my whole Trooper team is wearing cartel market items. Mako is wearing cartel items the same as my BH, so that was two complete sets I bought and then piece together the pieces I wanted. So I'm not exactly a sub who goes "make nothing available on the CM" as I obviously think the CM is okay. That doesn't mean I don't think some things should be made for the game that are strictly for the game and not the CM, whether it be for purposes of achievement, bragging rights, show of dedication or just long time play. Sadly, it looks like they have no real interest in making anything that can't be bought outright.
LordArtemis Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 Then you are blind. I don't know if you are aware of this, but someone does not have to feel the same way you do for your opinion to be valid.
Stoofa Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 If you wish to purchase Treek using Cartel Coins there is no Legacy level requirement. The Legacy level requirement is only if you wish to use credits. -eric Well what can I say - congratulations. Once more you give away to those that moan and complain - so long as the "greens" are there you'll happily give anything away. For a split second it looked like legacy was suddenly going to give us something worth aiming for. That all those characters and XP would count for something - but no. What a complete and utter cop-out and above all absolutely pathetic. I have absolutely no respect at all to the decision makers at BW - absolutely none.
morfius Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 (edited) I still cannot understand the logic between all that hate about CC Treek. You either dump 1 mil credits or X CC... there is no quest, there is nothing. You have LLV 40 you have 3 options: Subscribed - wait for your monthly CC / F2P - pay for game. If you spent your CC and want it now - pay with your time (grind dailies/FP/WZ) or with your money... If you spent your credits and want it now - pay with your time (grind dailies/FP/WZ) or with your money... If you have not LLV 40... Play till LLV40... Subscribed - wait for your monthly CC / F2P - pay for game. If you want it now - pay for it. Only reason to want it now is fresh character... otherwise it is just - I want everything now. I also want all armor sets from CM unlocked for all my characters and not bound so I can give them to my wife... but it not work in this way. I collect them from GTN, and send proper set to proper one ... then wait to monthly CC for collection unlocks. Now I am happy that have 5 different ways to make all my characters & companions look as I like them... there is 3 more (for now) but I will play GTN and wait for CC. It is a game, not baby cry. Edited July 8, 2013 by morfius
AlaricSevGirl Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 (edited) Where do people get the idea that people are buying their way through the game. Get off it, really. If you pay people to level you up, you're buying your way through the game. Every class has a healer. There is no need to buy the Ewok at all except for the cute factor just like there was no need to buy HK-51. And...we are also getting a stipend that will most likely pay for this character every month...and....you just got 500 cartel coins as an appreciation gift. And this is said by someone who is legacy level 37 and probably won't get the Ewok. Edited July 8, 2013 by AlaricSevGirl
Hxxr Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 Why bother with the legacy level at all then? Why not make it either or? Right - high Legacy levels are exclusive not to the most hardcore, but simply most stable playerbase. I find it a little disappointing that it offers very little in terms of rewards ... pretty much nothing apart from the title. No one ever said: "I got to raise my Legacy level, so I can have this and that!" Because there's nothing special to obtain. Pretty much in the same boat as crafting items for fashion purposes.
Superman_AZ Posted July 8, 2013 Author Posted July 8, 2013 That's fine, but it still doesn't change the fact the requirement is pointless. Do one or the other, having both is meaningless. Having BOTH allows the option to use EITHER. People complain all day long about being forced to do something when there is no other option. They've provided options, and people STILL complain. They need to remove the Legacy requirement all together and make it X number of CCs -- OR -- 1M Creds. If the legacy wasn't tied to this companion, this thread would have died on page 1.
Superman_AZ Posted July 8, 2013 Author Posted July 8, 2013 I'm a subscriber and I've yet to feel treated poorly, so please don't speak for everyone. I'm with you on this. I pay monthly and pay heavily into the CM. I enjoy options, and I am glad people have more than ONE avenue by which to achieve something.
CommanderKeeva Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 The dev silence on these threads must mean that they have no intention of easing the in-game acquisition of this companion in any way. Sad thing though, because with a system like this, not even long-time, high-legacy subscribers will use the credit unlock. What's the point in it anyway, when you earn 500 CC per month? I just wonder how they have the audacity to call it "Legacy vendor" when it's blatantly obvious that they're biased towards the Cartel Coin unlock. If they want to be honest and straightforward, they should rename the damned vendor to "Cartel Coin vendor", since I find it unlikely that further additions to the legacy vendor will actually favor the legacy system in any way.
Arlon_Nabarlly Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 (edited) I still cannot understand the logic between all that hate about CC Treek. OK, I'll quote the exact line from your breakdown. If you want it now - pay for it. If you want it now you pay for it is a short and sweet definition of P2W. I'm not saying that this is P2W, because it's not because a companion does not equal win, but it's certainly tip toeing over the line and that's why people are getting pissed. They want to make sure Bioware hears, loud and clear, what we will not accept P2W and they are on the fence, if not over it, with this and it should be backed down. It is a game, not baby cry. ummmwut? Right - high Legacy levels are exclusive not to the most hardcore, but simply most stable playerbase. I find it a little disappointing that it offers very little in terms of rewards ... pretty much nothing apart from the title. No one ever said: "I got to raise my Legacy level, so I can have this and that!" Because there's nothing special to obtain. Pretty much in the same boat as crafting items for fashion purposes. QFT Edited July 8, 2013 by Arlon_Nabarlly
chuuuuucky Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 (edited) I'm with you on this. I pay monthly and pay heavily into the CM. I enjoy options, and I am glad people have more than ONE avenue by which to achieve something. I agree with you options are always a good thing and CCs are ok to unlock the character. However options should always be balanced and that is not given with the options we can have the new companion. Legacy is the only level that really shows the time and effort you put into the game because it grows no matter what activity you do in the game. As soon as you bring that up as a barrier to obtain something, that means that this object is tied to a certain amount of effort. So by eliminating this barrier in the cc option the effort is turned down to nearly zero. So we have a high demand of effort on one side and a low demand of effort on the other. As you said above in another post getting rid of the legacy requirement would be one logical option. The other would be to add the legacy level to the cartel market option. And also another option would be to lower the legacy level so much that the that the effort wouldn't justify a need for a legacy level requirement on the Cartel market option. However that is not very straightforeward as there is always the question when is the legacy level so high that it should be added to both credit and cartel market option. The way it is now is the worst because, well most people don't have a problem with the cartel market option but the equation high effort = low effort doesn't work out. Edit: Btw. Superman_AZ I appriciate your effort in the other thread to discuss how legacy should be handled in the future and see your last posts in this thread as a very good basis for further constructive discussions. Edited July 8, 2013 by chuuuuucky
SithKoriandr Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 Right - high Legacy levels are exclusive not to the most hardcore, but simply most stable playerbase. I find it a little disappointing that it offers very little in terms of rewards ... pretty much nothing apart from the title. No one ever said: "I got to raise my Legacy level, so I can have this and that!" Because there's nothing special to obtain. Pretty much in the same boat as crafting items for fashion purposes. ^This. I don't see Treek as P2W. It would just be a good thing to see people actually trying to get those higher Legacy Levels for whatever reason. I'm Legacy Level 37 and I really don't see a reason to actually care what my Legacy Level really is.
ImperialSun Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 OK, I'll quote the exact line from your breakdown. If you want it now you pay for it is a short and sweet definition of P2W. I'm not saying that this is P2W, because it's not because a companion does not equal win, but it's certainly tip toeing over the line and that's why people are getting pissed. They want to make sure Bioware hears, loud and clear, what we will not accept P2W and they are on the fence, if not over it, with this and it should be backed down. ummmwut? QFT What I dont understand is, as you have stated above, companions provide no advantage and this is NOT a P2W scenario...so how is it tip toeing anywhere near the line? Not trying to nitpick but that seems like a contradiction in and of itself?? Driz
Heezdedjim Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 If you wish to purchase Treek using Cartel Coins there is no Legacy level requirement. The Legacy level requirement is only if you wish to use credits. That is . . . kind of a big deal.
Superman_AZ Posted July 8, 2013 Author Posted July 8, 2013 I agree with you options are always a good thing and CCs are ok to unlock the character. However options should always be balanced and that is not given with the options we can have the new companion. Legacy is the only level that really shows the time and effort you put into the game because it grows no matter what activity you do in the game. As soon as you bring that up as a barrier to obtain something, that means that this object is tied to a certain amount of effort. So by eliminating this barrier in the cc option the effort is turned down to nearly zero. It is clear we will see eye to eye on at least one of the two major points. I do agree there should be a balance, but tying more items to Legacy requirements may validate play time for long term players, but might discourage the purchase and use of CC in the market. Bioware has always been a for-profit company, and as a business, the smart move is to appeal to a wider audience by making certain fan items available for cash. I know there are people who call it "Pay-to-Win", but they are obviously mistaken on the definition. Pay to win means I could give BW $250, and in turn, they would give me a lvl 55 of each advanced class, a lvl 50 legacy, all the cosmetic gear I want, and fill out all my Legacy Perks and Achievements. Purchasing an Ewok on the CM was their goal. They tied it to a Legacy to provide options. Personally, I would like to see the Legacy Option be FREE for players with a Legacy 40+ in acknowledgement of thier efforts. I am not trying to admonish the long term players, I would like to see them rewarded so they stop trying to take away the options of others who might not have as much free time. Honestly, If you have Legacy Level 50, your unlocks should all be free. Maybe instead of attacking players who are using the options given to them, Legacy players should begin a heavy dialogue with BW to get Legacy 50 to have free unlocks for Alts. Let their hard work mean something.
SithKoriandr Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 What I dont understand is, as you have stated above, companions provide no advantage and this is NOT a P2W scenario...so how is it tip toeing anywhere near the line? Not trying to nitpick but that seems like a contradiction in and of itself?? Driz There's a few sayings... "Give them an inch and they'll take a mile." "Give them an inch and they'll walk all over you." What BW has been doing lately is trying to push the Cartel Market, where every bit of new content is released as purchasable in the Cartel Market (except Makeb oddly enough) and then tell the Subs, that "Oh it's free to you, because we give you Free CCs" Problem with that, is they don't give enough Free CCs with the amount of things they're churning out in the CM. And then people use the "Well just wait and save the coins up!" nevermind the fact that while a sub could do that, they'll likely be saving up for quite awhile and waiting months to experience something others around you are doing right now, because hey, they paid extra ontop of everything else...yeah. It's come down to new MMO players who don't have the time to play a MMO but want to play it, and those who make time and want it not only as TOR advertised itself as being a year ago, but like MMOs used to be.
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