Gear check For Group Finder, becoming a necessity.

[LordArtemis]

To add an additional point, I see nothing wrong with a gear check or stat record for personal use...or perhaps, at most, guild use.

 

But it absolutely positively should not be public info IMO.

[codycroft]

LOL, you definitions are silly. I'm a casual player, two out of three of my 55's are over geared for 55 HM's. My Sent is mostly 66 with blue augs, because I crafted them. There is a big, very big, gray area between your two absolutes.

[Lunafox]

Most people who are pugging want the MINIMUM gear that Bioware themeslves says is required. If you look at how gear progression for this game works (ths website under elder gear guide and dulfy both have good guides).

 

Here is a hint though. Whatever you are trying to get geared for. You don't do that thing to get the gear. You do something else before it!

 

I myself don't raid or pvp. You couldn't pay me enough to do it. I hate it. If I can't solo it, I don't do it, simple as that. I run with lvl 66 purples and augments, simply for my own use. I'm not even sure how high I could go on that.

 

But I do feel pity, when I'm reading chats about people who are getting treated like garbage cause a bunch of people think they're better, and don't want them. I think in a way people are too mean, and I really really do hate gear snobs. People need to be more compassionate and helpful, you give some good tips for the guides there.

 

I just wonder about your point though, if people have the gear up to the point of the thing they want to do, will they be allowed into a group...I'm guessing a lot may not let them in, simply because they want the best people to make sure the raid is a success.

Edited August 17, 2013 by Lunafox

[ZolanSilverspear]

I myself don't raid or pvp. You couldn't pay me enough to do it. I hate it. If I can't solo it, I don't do it, simple as that. I run with lvl 66 purples and augments, simply for my own use. I'm not even sure how high I could go on that.

 

But I do feel pity, when I'm reading chats about people who are getting treated like garbage cause a bunch of people think they're better, and don't want them. I think in a way people are too mean, and I really really do hate gear snobs. People need to be more compassionate and helpful, you give some good tips for the guides there.

 

I just wonder about your point though, if people have the gear up to the point of the thing they want to do, will they be allowed into a group...I'm guessing a lot may not let them in, simply because they want the best people to make sure the raid is a success.

 

I will congratulate you on your honesty, you are right now talking about something, as you yourself have said, have no idea. GJ !

 

For your information: The idea is having gear requirement put in place for elder game content. In order tplay the elder game content you need 4 players (or more) with a minumum gear, otherwise you will not be able to finish that content. You can't finish a L55 fp with a gear of greens an blues of lvl 40-50. But you can become L55 with that gear and still join GF and ruin the fun for the rest. That is the discussion here or it is supposed to be at least..

Edited August 17, 2013 by ZolanSilverspear

[LordArtemis]

LOL, you definitions are silly. I'm a casual player, two out of three of my 55's are over geared for 55 HM's. My Sent is mostly 66 with blue augs, because I crafted them. There is a big, very big, gray area between your two absolutes.

 

That is like saying "I'm an orange, but I look, smell and taste like an apple.".

 

There is no grey area IMO. You either care about reward and recognition of overcoming challenges or you care about entertainment and appearance.

 

There is a distinct difference. There is nothing wrong, IMO, with being part of either playstyle.

 

Just my opinion...and that means it is by no means the last word on the issue, nor is it the most accurate or most sensible. It is simply my definition based on my experience in online games.

[Lunafox]

I will congratulate you on your honesty, you are right now talking about something, as you yourself have said, have no idea. GJ !

 

For your information: The idea is having gear requirement put in place for elder game content. In order tplay the elder game content you need 4 players (or more) with a minumum gear, otherwise you will not be able to finish that content. You can't finish a L55 fp with a gear of greens an blues of lvl 40-50. But you can become L55 with that gear and still join GF and ruin the fun for the rest. That is the discussion here or it is supposed to be at least..

 

I know what the discussion is, I don't need you to enlighten me thanks. Just because I don't do an activity, doesn't mean I don't read up on in the forums and in guides. I just don't agree with the idea that this is required.

 

As someone else said, there is a kick button, why would you need to implement something like this.

 

There was no need to talk down to me, if you wanted to make your point, you should have just made it.

 

Do you feel superior now?

[ZolanSilverspear]

I know what the discussion is, I don't need you to enlighten me thanks. Just because I don't do an activity, doesn't mean I don't read up on in the forums and in guides. I just don't agree with the idea that this is required.

 

As someone else said, there is a kick button, why would you need to implement something like this.

 

There was no need to talk down to me, if you wanted to make your point, you should have just made it.

 

Do you feel superior now?

 

The post was to remind you that you do not know what you are talking about, as you have now 2 times informed everyone, and yet you still are talking. No offense or as you put it "talking down" was intended, if any given I apologize.

 

That said you are carrying the topic way off the intention. It takes average of 1 hour for DPS classes to find a HM FP, sometimes more sometimes less. Replacements, when someone is kicked is not easily found and requires more time. In the end you wait 1 hour to enter a FP, in 10 minutes you see there is a problem, you v-kick the problem (or you quit), you wait 10m-30m for a replacement, if one is found you continue, if not you disband and restart waiting. And for whatever reason you think this is an acceptable gaming practice? I would continue counter arguing the things you are trying to defend, but first don't you think you should learn what it is being suggested, before... well talking?

[Eitetsu]

Yes, there is a kick button. I just think people hesitate to use it, at least right away, because no one likes to come off as like an ******e.

 

Like today. I'm on my full 72\75 Marauder, and get into a Mando Raiders group with 66\69+ DPS and Healer, but our Jugg tank only has 22k HP (old lvl 50 stuff and sub-par implants, relics etc), and inspecting his gear\stats, he obviously doesn't know how to optimize his character. But we gave him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he just turned lvl 55 today and actually knows the class, role, and content really well. It's happened before (where an "undergeared" player still performs really well). Pretty soon it was obvious this guy wasn't such a player, and we kicked him.

 

Even if the player "deserves it," I still feel a little bad having to kick people. But honestly, they shouldn't be there in the first place if the most basic thing (gear) is lacking. Having a check system with generously low-end requirements would be a nice addition IMO. Check for a certain threshold of 58+ mods in combination with a mainstat check and HP check. The combination of the three should be generous enough that most level 55s will be able to get in as long as they've put SOME effort into their character, while locking out OBVIOUS non-contenders with lvl 45 implants and level 45 blue mods with only 1500 mainstat and such.

[demotivator]

A gear check would definitely goes a long way for the specific occasions when you are grouped with 3 undergeared people (and by experience it's usually idiots who won't kick you because they don't care about wasting your time, they are here to be carried).

 

I got this one guy last night who ended in HM Czerka Lab with 20k health, buffed. Yes you read it right, 20k health. I had more on my 50 back then. So he was wearing crappy gear, with a bunch of lvl 40 greens (yes really) which is totally unacceptable when you are queuing for a HM, this guy should have never been able to queue. And his excuse was that he just hit 55, so he got vote kicked and then raged through PM how I was a horrible person who wouldn't let him get geared. Yes I'm horrible for wanting a run where everyone can actually contribute, I'm horrible for wanting not to waste 45 minutes on a flashpoint that we can't complete because our DPS is too low and also horrible because I'd like not to waste 20k credits per run in repairs.

 

There's a gear progression, unless you hit 55 in full Campaign or unless you have several alts who can give you 66's or 69's right away, queueing for a HM is not the first thing you do when you hit 55. Period.

Edited August 17, 2013 by demotivator

[demotivator]

The very best DPS I ever saw in a flashpoint had under 20k health.

 

He did everything right. He stayed out of the "fire". He attacked mobs in the right order. He peeled mobs off the healer if any ever got that far. He never started a fight, instead waiting until the tank did. He stood and waited patiently while one of the group had to AFK for a couple minutes.

 

On top of all that excellence, everything he jumped onto died quicker than I've ever seen it die.

 

Sorry but I have to wonder if you actually are not downplaying the other DPS and if you truly were aware of what was going on.

 

Having less than 20k at lvl 55 means that your gear sucks (it sucks even for a lvl 50 since going from 50 to 55 with the same gear will give you up to 5k extra health so we can guess he had to have something like 15k when he was 50... Remember when we're doing 50 HMs? Even back then people with that kind of health were raising suspicion and you had to inspect them), it means that he's wearing blue and greens under lvl 50 and it means that his accuracy and damage are not going to be high enough.

 

So I can't see your new god doing well against a lvl 55 elite, it's like fighting with your fists. Naked. Maybe he had the mechanics right, maybe he knew his role as a DPS but I cannot see him contribute in terms of damage output one bit.

 

Also having less than 20k health in any 55 HM will seriously reduce your survivability hence you are going to be a pain for the healer (example: The Vigilant fight, his laser hits for 10k that's half his health but only 1/3 for any decently geared 55, that's quite a difference).

Edited August 17, 2013 by demotivator

[ZolanSilverspear]

First understand a mechanic before you try to ignore a comment. Health represents gear, since half of those mods and enchantments have +end stats on them for everyone! The stat bonuses increase exponentially at elder game and the relevant gear moves you above 20k health. Below 20k would almost definately mean a player in blues and greens joining a HM FP. Which should not be allowed. Thus the whole topic

[Herang]

first off i just came back to the came after around 3 months of not playing it. I am not gonna get into that whole mess but anyways. I come back i am full 61's some 63's fully optimized and suddenly i start getting yelled at for queing hard modes. I was like okay maybe i am jumping ahead of the game here but well see i doubt its harder than HM TFB. Sure enough as long as everyone did their jobs right i could heal them fine. No they were not in full 72's. I played throughout the day like this got some gear but still since my health is under 30 k. I keep being the object of harassment. It wasn't all negative i made some friends they would whisper me and say how surprised they are that i could heal through that and i must really know how to play my class. My point being don't be a tool and instant they are under 30 k health and become a complete "special" person. Not everyone needs gear to make up for lack in skill. Infact just to make a group happy i put on my pvp gear because that made a "HUGE" difference lol.

[Amaranth]

He did everything right. He stayed out of the "fire". He attacked mobs in the right order. He peeled mobs off the healer if any ever got that far. He never started a fight, instead waiting until the tank did. He stood and waited patiently while one of the group had to AFK for a couple minutes.

 

This is the sort of stuff I value more than gear level honestly. As a healer I've gotten into HMs in which both DPS were in 58s, and we still cleared the instance without wipes because they knew what they were doing. if I had to choose between someone in lower level gear who knew what to do, and someone in higher level gear who repeatedly acted foolishly, I'd pick the former.

[morfius]

There is some mistakes around gear needed, gearing wrong or not at all and gear elitarism ... I had been in many groups with 61/63 geared players with proper distribution and play stile - it works pretty well in most HMs (most issues are like Vigilant random 10k but it is doable if bad side of RNG don't hit at same moment - but if it is about RNG - 1 wipe is not so bad thing, FP is still doable).

I have also been in some HMs with players on green/blue quest drops ... it was epic failing - even if they know their classes up to the book (what they mostly didn't).

Issue with gear level is issue with player level also, there is no way player that get his class or role right would not understand at least basics of gear progression.

So we even have player that doesn't get it right, doesn't care or is so lazy that think others are obligated to carry him/her.

Witch of those are good choice?

[Bilirubin]

No, just quested and WZ. TBH it didn't take very long to hit 55 in fully min-maxed Rakata/BH gear. Also never seemed to pick up the FPs while sub 55. Was guildless at the time.

 

When I first came back someone suggested I run the HMs first as a DPS to get the mechanics. Perhaps I am taking this too seriously but after seeing some of the abuse heaped on tanks in WoW...mind, this community isn't the same which is one reason I am back here, but still.

 

Feh, being too sensitive. Will run some tonight and report back.

Reporting back. Didn't do a HM. Got dragged in to off tank TfB. Went as well as might be expected for a first time through an instance like that. My 66 gear was just fine for that, a few big spikes and some DPS with more HP than I notwithstanding.

[ivanhedgehog]

I am a healer at 55. A dps at 55. and a tank at 55.

 

as a dps I know what awaits me for entering gf queue. That's not what I'm going to rant about.

 

I'm ranting about the fact that we get (clueless) people queueing up in level 55 HMs with blue level 44 armorings on them. Just had a whole group of em, the most powerful one had 1 69 item, and green implants, and not even the latest ones.

 

Mandalorian raiders 55 HM. Naturally, cc for this group is overrated, and of course we get shredded when we get 5 salky hounds jumping on us in 1 go.

 

Keep going in, keep dying. Had enough as we wouldn't stand a chance. But yeah what gets me is that I get the lockout. The only one with the proper gear in it, why is this happening, why does any dps have to wait another hour in GF because of people that... don't know... Can't read?

 

It is evident most people can't, so yeah,although I believe this was already done, I request once again an automated gear checker for group finder, at least for the high level end game content.

 

And yeah also if you could implement a queue status for the group finder it would also be appreciated. Thanks for reading me out

 

those fp's were intended to gear up new 55's for ops. now you want them to do ops to get the gear to do the ops? Maybe if BW would stop tuning every single bit of content like it was an ops boss you wouldnt have this problem. I feel for new 55's that dont have a good guild that can help them out and show them the ropes. I have done these fp's with an undergeared person. slow down a bit and work your way through. We have gotten some cool new guild members this way.

[demotivator]

those fp's were intended to gear up new 55's for ops. now you want them to do ops to get the gear to do the ops?

 

What - are - you - talking - about? Really. I'm not even sure how you managed to read that...

 

Back to the subject, there's a gear progression, when you hit lvl 50 run 50 HMs, run dailies and get classic commendations, buy Campaign gear while you grind till lvl 55. When you hit 55 you should grind story modes and dailies to get basic commendations and buy Basic gear, when you start getting a few pieces now you can think about running 55 HMs (though I admit that you could skip the Basic requirement if you are in full Campaign, since Campaign and Dread Guard were the common gear back Makeb went live).

 

If you want to skip any of these stages don't be surprised when people point a finger at you.

Edited August 17, 2013 by demotivator

[Ratajack]

The post was to remind you that you do not know what you are talking about, as you have now 2 times informed everyone, and yet you still are talking. No offense or as you put it "talking down" was intended, if any given I apologize.

 

That said you are carrying the topic way off the intention. It takes average of 1 hour for DPS classes to find a HM FP, sometimes more sometimes less. Replacements, when someone is kicked is not easily found and requires more time. In the end you wait 1 hour to enter a FP, in 10 minutes you see there is a problem, you v-kick the problem (or you quit), you wait 10m-30m for a replacement, if one is found you continue, if not you disband and restart waiting. And for whatever reason you think this is an acceptable gaming practice? I would continue counter arguing the things you are trying to defend, but first don't you think you should learn what it is being suggested, before... well talking?

 

 

Where is it written that everything can be done in 14 mins or less? Who wrote that rule of MMO's?

 

I do not currently raid, but I did for many years over the course of several games. I have seen what gear checks do. I have seen people meet the minimum gear standards and yet be kicked by the elitists who want a face roll speed run for not meeting the elitist's gear standards even though the player met the game's standards.

 

If a player is going to use the "push this button to queue and then go AFK til the ding when the group is formed" LFG tool rather than actually trying to find a group of like minded players, he may be grouped with one or more persons who do not meet his preferred gear standards. If you want a face roll speed run, form your own groups or run with friends and guild members.