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Scum & Villainy (NiM) 8-Man Progression Tracking


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**EDIT**

Removed the ability to skip bosses.

 

Click Here for the Scum & Villainy Nightmare Mode 8-Man Progression Tracking Tool

 

Introduction

 

With the release of the Nightmare version of Scum & Villainy expected on Tuesday July 9th, SuckaFish Guild is again offering a tool for tracking 8-Man Progression. This comes on the heels of the 8-Man Nightmare TFB tool we provided a month ago.

 

Changes in this version of the Tool

 

I am sure most of you who participated in the TFB Progression tracking thread are familiar with some of the issues we encountered. To be honest there were certain things we didn't think about. This time around we have learnt from that and improved on the tool. Below are the changes between the TFB tool and this S&V one:

 

 

  1. The scoring system has changed. Defeating each boss is worth 600 points for the first guild to do it. From then on the points awarded will decrease by a variable amount for every second that elapses between the first kill and the subsequent kills thereafter. This method allows us to take into account the difficulty of a boss and reward the guilds who are able to defeat those challenging bosses the fastest.
     
     
  2. Additionally, we have added a variable that determines how many days should elapse before the points awarded for defeating a boss will reduce by half. This variable is set to 7 days. For example, if the first guild to kill Titan 6 does it on day one they are awarded 600 points. Lets say the second guild to do it managed it on day 2 and are awarded 516 points. If the third guild to kill Titan 6 does so 7 days after the second guild, they are awarded 258 points (half of 516). This feature exists so we can reward the guilds that are able to defeat bosses within the first week.
     
    This graph provides a good visual of the scoring system. The x-axis represents days and the y-axis represents points.
     
     
  3. Skipping bosses (i.e. completing encounters in Hard Mode) will not be allowed if your guild is participating in this progression thread. With that said, a higher emphasis will be placed on verification screenshots. If kills aren't accompanied by a screenshot showing the achievement received, no points will be awarded. Without a screenshot we cannot prove that you defeated a boss in Nightmare Mode, so any bosses defeated thereafter will be invalidated. Please read the next section for more information on verifying boss kills
     
     
  4. Finally we have included additional bonus points for guilds that achieve first, second or third ranked kills on each boss and the two hour title.

 

The Verification of Boss Kills

 

In order to fully verify a kill and receive a 100% of the points for it you will need to provide a screenshot that contains three visuals.

 

But before we explain those visuals let's discuss how to take the screenshot with the UTC time-stamp window:

 

 

  1. Ensure the game client is in Fullscreen (Windowed) mode. This can be set in the Preferences/Graphics menu
  2. Click the UTC Clock link here and set the browser window to a size of your preference.
  3. Drag UTC time-stamp window over the SWTOR Client window and position it appropriately.
  4. On your keyboard, hit CTRL+Print Screen to capture your entire Desktop to your clipboard.
  5. In MS Paint, paste the contents of the clipboard (the captured image). Edit the image as preferred and save it.
  6. Alternatively, you can use screen capturing software like SnagIt or Snipping Tool. Snipping Tool is included in Windows 7.

 

Now onto the visuals we need to see in the screenshot. Please ensure the following items are clearly visible:

 

 

  1. The Nightmare Mode Achievement you receive for killing a particular boss.
  2. A UTC time-stamp which can be acquired from the UTC clock here: UTC Clock
  3. The difficulty of the instance which can be proved by capturing the achievement you receive for defeating a particular boss. Alternatively, difficulty can be verified by right clicking your character's portrait.
  4. Additionally, to verify your 2-Hour title, we need to see a screenshot of the title achievement and the UTC Time-stamp present so we can rank the acquisition of titles.
  5. Here is an example of a screenshot from Drop it like it's Hoth's World First NiM TFB kill of Dread Guards. Please do your best to ensure all verification screenshots follow that example.

 

Posting Verification Screenshots

 

Include the following items in your post:

 

 

  1. Guild Name
  2. Guild Website (If you have one)
  3. Server
  4. Region
  5. A link to the verification screenshot for each boss you have defeated.

 

At the end of the day we may not capture everything that could happen during progression. We didn't prepare for anyone skipping DG in NiM TFB and it's likely we will miss something similar in this one. Nonetheless,I know that the majority of us will compete fairly. However, if anything arises during this progression like what happened in NiM TFB, we reserve the right to disqualify any guild that has a part in it.

 

Good luck to everyone.

Edited by Iggyemu
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just read the new rules, i like them... i would suggest that you do something with the skipping, i know linear add more "points", but i think ( for me) the points worth nothing, i mean its fine for overall guild ranking, but, people like their world 1st / 2nd / 3rd... well at least me, its my opinion... i would just Disqualify skipping honestly... and make the bonus something else or just remove :)... also add a period of time to the skipping Disqualify, lets say new DG fight but really impossible, theres 13 days to wait for fix / nerf / kill, if no one kills within 13 days, next weeks reset (starting same day for everyone) people is allowed to skip that boss to have a "fair" competition.

 

So my point is, linear clear bonus is fine, but i would just Disqualify skipping in "this ranking"... let them be first in their server who cares, post what they want on their website, but here we have a "set rule" not open to "mathematics" "arguments" , WoW comparison, anything....guilds who likes the rule, participate.... others can create their own thread :)....

 

Otherwise we will have the same problem we had in TFB... theres the real W1 DG kill - DiLiH in the rankings... theres the real W1 full clear - DiLiH... then there's this other guild that claims "world first kill" and confuse people, because there wasnt a clear rule that said if it was right or wrong to skip.... because apparently skipping a boss because its "bugged" or "overtuned" (false, and doable) make sense, but claiming a world first killing a boss that they couldnt kill (like 1 - 1:30 mins behind timer, at least in their kill vid.) and killed because of a "bug" (an actual real bug that killed the boss for them), then thats a world first (for them) when they could have spent few more wiping days like everyone else, and maybe eventually kill since they are good, or wait for nerf if they wanted and not claim something thats not true :) ... i would just avoid this whole argument on 1st / 2nd, skip not to skip... and Disqualify Skipping as a rule for certain amount of time :D.

 

 

that's My idea, since i probably will miss that meeting.

Edited by Carlenux
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just read the new rules, i like them... i would suggest that you do something with the skipping, i know linear add more "points", but i think ( for me) the points worth nothing, i mean its fine for overall guild ranking, but, people like their world 1st / 2nd / 3rd... well at least me, its my opinion... i would just DQ skipping honestly... and make the bonus something else or just remove :)... also add a period of time to the skipping DQ, lets say new DG fight but really impossible, theres 13 days to wait for fix / nerf / kill, if no one kills within 13 days, next weeks reset (starting same day for everyone) people is allowed to skip that boss to have a "fair" competition.

 

So my point is, linear clear bonus is fine, but i would just DQ skipping in "this ranking"... let them be first in their server who cares, post what they want on their website, but here we have a "set rule" not open to "mathematics" "arguments" , WoW comparison, anything....guilds who likes the rule, participate.... others can create their own thread :)....

 

Otherwise we will have the same problem we had in TFB... theres the real W1 DG kill - DiLiH in the rankings... theres the real W1 full clear - DiLiH... then there's this other guild that claims "world first kill" and confuse people, because there wasnt a clear rule that said if it was right or wrong to skip.... because apparently skipping a boss because its "bugged" or "overtuned" (false, and doable) make sense, but claiming a world first killing a boss that they couldnt kill (like 1 - 1:30 mins behind timer, at least in their kill vid.) and killed because of a "bug" (an actual real bug that killed the boss for them), then thats a world first (for them) when they could have spent few more wiping days like everyone else, and maybe eventually kill since they are good, or wait for nerf if they wanted and not claim something thats not true :) ... i would just avoid this whole argument on 1st / 2nd, skip not to skip... and Disqualify Skipping as a rule for certain amount of time :D.

 

 

that's My idea, since i probably will miss that meeting.

 

I agree. Thank you for saying it though, since if it comes from anyone from our guild we would just get called "elitests","tryhards", and "e-peen strokers" (though I cant stroke what I can't find).

 

Seems to me though that refusing to go along with the only two guilds with clears and titles, the majority of the PvE community, and the people who took the time to set this up for the good of the whole community means you're more worried about stroking your own than having someone else do the stroking. I'd rather be Queen of the Mountain than simply the hill in my back yard that no one else plays on.

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We fully aggry with that aswell we never skipped and never thought about skipping in the next Content/Competition!

Add something like skipping will be disqualied would be great in my opinion . And we will join on Sunday ;)

Edited by Crosan
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Hi all, I'm Fuyri, I built the spreadsheet with the input and feedback from Tigg. And would just like to go over a bit of the thought process regarding the thought process behind the skipping system.

 

First off we didn't want to discourage any guilds from participating by banning skipping. I know DnT are the big figurehead guild for skipping, but i'm also fairly sure some others did it too and just didn't say or didn't even participate fearing a negative reaction from the community. There's only several hundred people competing in these progression races and the more taking part the better.

 

Once agreeing to enable skipping we needed to create a system where they could still receive points and stay competitive without breaking everyone else's score. We came up with a couple of ideas that when working in conjunction created a score balance that was where we wanted it to be.

 

1. Setting the time difference timer to not trigger until a linear clearing guild kills the boss allows the spreadsheet to fairly reflect other linear clearing guilds with relation to the first one. This would also allow linear clearing guilds to not be set massively behind (score wise) the skipping guilds on the later bosses.

 

2. A linear clear bonus as extra points towards those guilds that clear the bosses in a linear fashion. This ensured that while skipping is both allowed and will give you a high rating spot it is incredibly hard to hold the number 1 spot or beat any guilds that clear within a few days of that top guild.

 

I would like to encourage guilds to avoid skipping, even if you didn't last time. And if you do choose to skip please stay on the boss for a good 5+ hours, you cannot get a feel for a top level difficulty fight off a handful off pulls.

 

 

i know linear add more "points", but i think ( for me) the points worth nothing, i mean its fine for overall guild ranking, but, people like their world 1st / 2nd / 3rd...
This is what we're trying to fix by creating a better system to allow points to be meaningful. Regardless of what's done, it's going to be World 1st on the hardest boss (or timed run) that will be most prestigious.

then there's this other guild that claims "world first kill" and confuse people, because there wasnt a clear rule that said if it was right or wrong to skip
If we ban skipping they'll still be guilds that may "claim" the world first after skipping on their own as this is not official it's just a community tracking system. This way I think we'll stay roughly united.

 

 

 

I'll be paying attention to the thread if anyone has any questions and also will be at the vent meeting.

 

I'm also trying to stay impartial (I imagine Tigg is too) so this spreadsheet is what I/we feel is the best balance for what different members of the community with differing opinions want, not how Suckafish or I think guilds should clear or how it should be setup.

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Hi all, I'm Fuyri, I built the spreadsheet with the input and feedback from Tigg. And would just like to go over a bit of the thought process regarding the thought process behind the skipping system.

 

First off we didn't want to discourage any guilds from participating by banning skipping. I know DnT are the big figurehead guild for skipping, but i'm also fairly sure some others did it too and just didn't say or didn't even participate fearing a negative reaction from the community. There's only several hundred people competing in these progression races and the more taking part the better.

 

Once agreeing to enable skipping we needed to create a system where they could still receive points and stay competitive without breaking everyone else's score. We came up with a couple of ideas that when working in conjunction created a score balance that was where we wanted it to be.

 

1. Setting the time difference timer to not trigger until a linear clearing guild kills the boss allows the spreadsheet to fairly reflect other linear clearing guilds with relation to the first one. This would also allow linear clearing guilds to not be set massively behind (score wise) the skipping guilds on the later bosses.

 

2. A linear clear bonus as extra points towards those guilds that clear the bosses in a linear fashion. This ensured that while skipping is both allowed and will give you a high rating spot it is incredibly hard to hold the number 1 spot or beat any guilds that clear within a few days of that top guild.

 

I would like to encourage guilds to avoid skipping, even if you didn't last time. And if you do choose to skip please stay on the boss for a good 5+ hours, you cannot get a feel for a top level difficulty fight off a handful off pulls.

 

 

This is what we're trying to fix by creating a better system to allow points to be meaningful. Regardless of what's done, it's going to be World 1st on the hardest boss (or timed run) that will be most prestigious.

If we ban skipping they'll still be guilds that may "claim" the world first after skipping on their own as this is not official it's just a community tracking system. This way I think we'll stay roughly united.

 

 

 

I'll be paying attention to the thread if anyone has any questions and also will be at the vent meeting.

 

I'm also trying to stay impartial (I imagine Tigg is too) so this spreadsheet is what I/we feel is the best balance for what different members of the community with differing opinions want, not how Suckafish or I think guilds should clear or how it should be setup.

 

i will have to disagree again... there are 3 things people care: killing last / hardest boss... full clear... title run... the ranking is fun for us, the few 30-50 guilds reading this, but for the vast majority of the community, they just care to ask who "world first" not whos number one ranking doing mathematical numbers on different bosses... like in my server every time someone says "DnT got W-1 its in their Website" i just want to shoot myself... i dont see why someone would not participate because we have a set rule to not be arrogant and skipping a boss half a day with math and not skills.... like i said "no skipping rule for the first 2 weeks" if no one kills / nerf by that time, everyone starts fresh on the same week skipping the boss if they want.

 

my whole point is that there are too many rules trying to allow something that it shouldn't... too many numbers for you, too many numbers for the community, stuff that just complicate the set up, should be just Disqualify skipping for X amount of days, done.

 

this is being overly complicated now, its just as easy as disqualify skipping, if there's really any guild bad enough to say "we wont participate because we want to skip" who wants them here?, let them create their own thread for cheaters and whiners, i am pretty sure no one will want those kind of guilds here, the same way no one wanted DnT after skipping in tfb for spoiling and ruining the competition.

 

EDIT: i am pretty sure you guys agree with me, and majority of the progression guilds that are left that had the competition ruined by 1 guild last content, and after all its your Thread, and i think you just doing extra work, doing it more complicated for everyone, just for 1 -2 guilds that might "not like skipping", like i said, if they dont like they can create their own thread and add +1000 points to skipping bosses, and lie in their websites, whatever they want, but not in this official thread, unfortunately there is no wow progress here, its your thread, your rules and what everyone think its "fair"... lets see what everyone else think in the meeting :).

Edited by Carlenux
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You know what I find incredibly arrogant Carl? Your one sided view of my way or the highway that you have been spouting for weeks on the forums here after DnT skipped DG and killed the rest of the bosses first. Guess what only a vocal minority were against it. We received praise from people via whispers on our server and PMs on forums for making the hard decision to skip DG the first week and miss out on a chance not only for the first kill of them but for the loot upgrade which would have helped further down the road. The fact is we looked at how much raiding time we had on the week and made the hard decision to skip. We downed the remaining bosses with little effort and only a couple of wipes. The fact remains though that we did indeed kill them first and discovered the bug with terror about a week in advance allowing BW to fix is pretty quick.

Do you honestly think there is no skill involved with a guild that was able to down the rest of the bosses with little effort? Do you think operator and kephess are free loot? Are you honestly that arrogant that you would rather point the finger and insult someone else because you cannot accept the fact that they made a tough decision and went on to kill other bosses? Get over yourself.

The only thing the vocal minority like you has done is discourage other guilds from participating in the progression threads. When you look at the community and see that less and less guilds are participating I suggest you take a good hard look at yourself. Its because of people like you that you are going to see less participation in the future progression threads because instead of doing the right thing and simply saying grats on the kill and the tough decision you hold resentment like a child and would rather remain on the forums bashing others and acting like a e-moral centered brat who is essentially bullying others away. I will not stand for it. You should be ashamed

Edited by Ansalem
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You know what I find incredibly arrogant Carl? Your one sided view of my way or the highway that you have been spouting for weeks on the forums here after DnT skipped DG and killed the rest of the bosses first. Guess what only a vocal minority were against it. We received praise from people via whispers on our server and PMs on forums for making the hard decision to skip DG the first week and miss out on a chance not only for the first kill of them but for the loot upgrade which would have helped further down the road. The fact is we looked at how much raiding time we had on the week and made the hard decision to skip. We downed the remaining bosses with little effort and only a couple of wipes. The fact remains though that we did indeed kill them first and discovered the bug with terror about a week in advance allowing BW to fix is pretty quick.

Do you honestly think there is no skill involved with a guild that was able to down the rest of the bosses with little effort? Do you think operator and kephess are free loot? Are you honestly that arrogant that you would rather point the finger and insult someone else because you cannot accept the fact that they made a tough decision and went on to kill other bosses? Get over yourself.

The only thing the vocal minority like you has done is discourage other guilds from participating in the progression threads. When you look at the community and see that less and less guilds are participating I suggest you take a good hard look at yourself. Its because of people like you that you are going to see less participation in the future progression threads because instead of doing the right thing and simply saying grats on the kill and the tough decision you hold resentment like a child and would rather remain on the forums bashing others and acting like a e-moral centered brat who is essentially bullying others away. I will not stand for it. You should be ashamed

 

I believe people were pissed at you guys not because you skipped but the arrogance you displayed on the forums while skipping. You self proclaimed yourselves the best and used the term "impossible". That is what I believe people were offended by.

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The subject is dead as far as the last round of progression, we all know how people feel about it. On Sunday your guild can be represented and bring forth anything it wants to voice. We're not taking multiple members just 1. And will hash everything out then. If people don't want to participate I don't care. If people want to make claims then no big deal. This is to end the BS that people think or want. So lets not restart what went on in 4 different threads.
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I believe people were pissed at you guys not because you skipped but the arrogance you displayed on the forums while skipping. You self proclaimed yourselves the best and used the term "impossible". That is what I believe people were offended by.

 

what he said ^ wont enter in detail, like he said, that discussion is over, just see how many guilds cleared before nerf... go to your website and read your Swtor headlines, and watch your TFB kill stream, and tell me if that deserve to be called World First above DiLiH, if u think it is, well then grats, but its just not true for swtor community, regardless of how many WoW examples we can find, or how many uninformed people comment on it :).

 

lets be fair, u got to 30% enrage before most guilds even pass P2... you could have just tried like everyone else, and eventually kill for world first, instead of taking the shortcut, just to post a headline in the website :).

 

For the last SF poster, the OP instructions clearly said this "If you have questions but would rather not join us on Vent, post them in this thread as well" like i know i might not be here, and if i am, i have no way to speak in ventrilo, i am posting my idea here, i agree we should not start over the whole DnT discussion, they are just the example for the idea :)... i am just saying straight in the forums what i think, most guilds believe, what your own guild member said she wanted to say, and what other guilds probably want to say too but dont want to "start a conflict", i dont care if its DnT, or if it would have been Hoth, suckafish, Loom, whatever guild, just saying what i think its right, skipping its cheating simple. lets not encourage it anymore to avoid this :).

 

Its nothing against DnT, unfortunately they were the ones that did everything, so yeah, of course they are the example, i am sure they will be on top of the list next content do great all that stuff, but unless the rule is set, there will just be another different guild doing the same, creating the same conflict... just trying to avoid that for the good of everyone :).

 

EDIT: basically if you want to keep encouraging skipping, then i suggest you increase linear bonus, i mean, make it 3k something like that, just making sure that anyone that skip wont be anywhere near the top rankings, because they took a shortcut. i would be happy with that i guess :D.

Edited by Carlenux
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I believe people were pissed at you guys not because you skipped but the arrogance you displayed on the forums while skipping. You self proclaimed yourselves the best and used the term "impossible". That is what I believe people were offended by.

 

I don't recall any proclamations of being the best. Perhaps people just let their imaginations get the better of them and interpreted things differently? The term impossible was actually used in the video not the post as I recalled. I believe the term the guild actually used was overtuned.

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what he said ^ wont enter in detail, like he said, that discussion is over, just see how many guilds cleared before nerf... go to your website and read your Swtor headlines, and watch your TFB kill stream, and tell me if that deserve to be called World First above DiLiH, if u think it is, well then grats, but its just not true for swtor community, regardless of how many WoW examples we can find, or how many uninformed people comment on it :).

 

lets be fair, u got to 30% enrage before most guilds even pass P2... you could have just tried like everyone else, and eventually kill for world first, instead of taking the shortcut, just to post a headline in the website :).

 

For the last SF poster, the OP instructions clearly said this "If you have questions but would rather not join us on Vent, post them in this thread as well" like i know i might not be here, and if i am, i have no way to speak in ventrilo, i am posting my idea here, i agree we should not start over the whole DnT discussion, they are just the example for the idea :)... i am just saying straight in the forums what i think, most guilds believe, what your own guild member said she wanted to say, and what other guilds probably want to say too but dont want to "start a conflict", i dont care if its DnT, or if it would have been Hoth, suckafish, Loom, whatever guild, just saying what i think its right, skipping its cheating simple. lets not encourage it anymore to avoid this :).

 

Its nothing against DnT, unfortunately they were the ones that did everything, so yeah, of course they are the example, i am sure they will be on top of the list next content do great all that stuff, but unless the rule is set, there will just be another different guild doing the same, creating the same conflict... just trying to avoid that for the good of everyone :).

 

EDIT: basically if you want to keep encouraging skipping, then i suggest you increase linear bonus, i mean, make it 3k something like that, just making sure that anyone that skip wont be anywhere near the top rankings, because they took a shortcut. i would be happy with that i guess :D.

 

Simple fact carl...we killed it first its a first. We already know the whole argument about skipping but I find it ironic that in the other thread you admit to skipping the very same boss in a run though its an alt run because you didn't have time on the week. Well guess what same thing!

We knew how much time we had on the week and we used our time efficiently to clear bosses. Its a decision Ill stick by because it was the right decision. We didn't have the luxury of 20-30 hours to throw at the boss like the guilds that got it down. We did however get our kill in about 70 attempts.

Skipping is not cheating it is an accepted method in multiple mmos. If Bioware didnt want the option of skipping they would have changed it by now. At this point you sound like a bitter resentful child that is crying over spilt milk. Get over it and move on.

Edited by Ansalem
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Simple fact carl...we killed it first its a first. We already know the whole argument about skipping but I find it ironic that in the other thread you admit to skipping the very same boss in a run though its an alt run because you didn't have time on the week. Well guess what same thing!

We knew how much time we had on the week and we used our time efficiently to clear bosses. Its a decision Ill stick by because it was the right decision. We didn't have the luxury of 20-30 hours to throw at the boss like the guilds that got it down. We did however get our kill in about 70 attempts.

Skipping is not cheating it is an accepted method in multiple mmos. If Bioware didnt want the option of skipping they would have changed it by now. At this point you sound like a bitter resentful child that is crying over spilt milk. Get over it and move on.

 

Hello all, Sneaky Snake Gudarzz here...I am not a PVE pro or anything (I am color blind and can't clear op9). However, I would like to comment on this "skipping" thing. In the rated pvp scene, when you beat a team, it generally means you play them the ENTIRE time during a given warzone. You can't say you beat <Don't Panic> in a huttball when you switch the difficulty to 8 man derp pug for 5 points, then switch back to <Don't Panic> difficulty for the 6th. This isn't Super Mario 3 where you can use magic whistles to skip stages. As for that "world first" claim, there should be an asterisk *Dreadguards was mathematically impossible at the time* :cool:

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As for that "world first" claim, there should be an asterisk *Dreadguards was mathematically impossible at the time* :cool:

 

Except it wasn't mathematically impossible. At least 3 guilds cleared NiM DG in under 5 days.

 

Yogg-Saron "Alone in the Darkness" took about 40 days.

25 man Heroic LK took weeks as well.

 

I think DiLiH said they needed 150-160 attempts to clear NiM DG. While the 2nd boss in a 5 man Operation being that much more challenging than the other bosses was probably unintended (hence the 30 second enrage nerf) it was hardly impossible to beat pre-nerf.

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when nim snv launch day hits i will set up a pug 2 jugg tanks, 2 op healers, 3 marauders, 1 sniper (me :) ) to do 6/7 hm snv then swap to nim snv (while you all wipe on thrasher) and get the world first kill ;)

Edited by paowee
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when nim snv launch day hits i will set up a pug 2 jugg tanks, 2 op healers, 3 marauders, 1 sniper (me :) ) to do 6/7 hm snv then swap to nim snv (while you all wipe on thrasher) and get the world first kill ;)

 

lol I like your moxy:P

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I don't recall any proclamations of being the best. Perhaps people just let their imaginations get the better of them and interpreted things differently? The term impossible was actually used in the video not the post as I recalled. I believe the term the guild actually used was overtuned.

 

"ENRAGE TIMER is impossible with our current gear (full Underworld)." - <Death and Taxes>

Enkay - 55 Juggernaut, GM

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6425376&postcount=1

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6425897&postcount=50

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6425967&postcount=56

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6426233&postcount=78

DNT streamer saying "mathematically impossible" who basically trolled everyone who stated otherwise.

 

 

Says different. I don't have a horse in this race I don't care. I watched all your attempts on DG and none were flawless nor anything close to the above quotes. Just the "impossible" irked people wrong and the trolling/arrogance members of DnT displayed after.

 

I'm going to stop posting this thread is already getting derailed anyhow like I mentioned before skip or no skip for S&V bosses best of luck to all.

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Except it wasn't mathematically impossible. At least 3 guilds cleared NiM DG in under 5 days.

 

Yogg-Saron "Alone in the Darkness" took about 40 days.

25 man Heroic LK took weeks as well.

 

I think DiLiH said they needed 150-160 attempts to clear NiM DG. While the 2nd boss in a 5 man Operation being that much more challenging than the other bosses was probably unintended (hence the 30 second enrage nerf) it was hardly impossible to beat pre-nerf.

 

If you look through the thread on it you will notice that it was someone else that labeled it mathmatically impossible. I have always referred to it as overtuned. Our video of it was originally labeled impossible but them changed to improbable. Also the original statement was referring not only to the encounter but the enrage timer which proved to be true as no guild (though 1 came very close) was able to defeat the encounter without seeing an enrage until they fixed the enrage timer. Most guilds invested 150-200 wipes to get it down before the change. Ours did not have the luxury or time to invest that many wipes but we did spend a good 4 hours on the fight before skipping. Impossible? no...improbable before the fix? yes.

Also I went back and checked. Only 2 guilds downed it in the first week.

Edited by Ansalem
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Says different. I don't have a horse in this race I don't care. I watched all your attempts on DG and none were flawless nor anything close to the above quotes. Just the "impossible" irked people wrong and the trolling/arrogance members of DnT displayed after.

 

I'm going to stop posting this thread is already getting derailed anyhow like I mentioned before skip or no skip for S&V bosses best of luck to all.

 

as you can see in the quote you used he referenced the enrage timer was the impossible part and that was true. None of the guilds that beat it pre nerf beat the enrage timer. That is not trolling or arrogance that is a fact. As I said before people are using their own interpretations and imaginations and applying it.

Edited by Ansalem
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as you can see in the quote you used he referenced the enrage timer was the impossible part and that was true. None of the guilds that beat it pre nerf beat the enrage timer. That is not trolling or arrogance that is a fact. As I said before people are using their own interpretations and imaginations and applying it.

 

The first quote can be debated on what he meant exactly if you want to argue semantics.....the others clearly state that the fight is impossible to beat do to the enrage timer. I find two things amusing here (Not just specifically to your case but in general):

 

1) Seeing an enrage timer does not mean you can not beat the fight. Gosh remember SoA's enrage way back when. You could kite him indefinitely.

 

2) This whole argument for and against skipping. What I think is lost in the "he said, she said" is the competition. After all, that is the entire point of tracking the progression. Its like these sports stars that abuse performance enhancing steroids.......sure it makes them better, but it gives an unfair advantage.

 

 

 

Even though I come from a 16 man guild, I would like to drop my two cents here.

 

Let's assume that we tracked SM progression. Let's also assume that SM was not easy. Would we be able to skip bosses there? Nope. I think HM and NiM share a lockout because they dropped the same gear back in the day. Now they do not, but I do not think Bioware has thought to change that. As a result a situation has arisen. I think a progression model that favors competition should be used. You must kill the previous boss to get credit on the current boss. This does allow you to skip and see the content or get gear. It does not allow you to get credit for cutting corners.

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The first quote can be debated on what he meant exactly if you want to argue semantics.....the others clearly state that the fight is impossible to beat do to the enrage timer. I find two things amusing here (Not just specifically to your case but in general):

 

1) Seeing an enrage timer does not mean you can not beat the fight. Gosh remember SoA's enrage way back when. You could kite him indefinitely.

 

2) This whole argument for and against skipping. What I think is lost in the "he said, she said" is the competition. After all, that is the entire point of tracking the progression. Its like these sports stars that abuse performance enhancing steroids.......sure it makes them better, but it gives an unfair advantage.

 

 

 

Even though I come from a 16 man guild, I would like to drop my two cents here.

 

Let's assume that we tracked SM progression. Let's also assume that SM was not easy. Would we be able to skip bosses there? Nope. I think HM and NiM share a lockout because they dropped the same gear back in the day. Now they do not, but I do not think Bioware has thought to change that. As a result a situation has arisen. I think a progression model that favors competition should be used. You must kill the previous boss to get credit on the current boss. This does allow you to skip and see the content or get gear. It does not allow you to get credit for cutting corners.

 

Yeah you have to take the quotes from that thread with a grain of salt since they are spread out throughout the thread. I know when I talked about the fight I was referencing the enrage timer as I think the rest of the fight is perfect. As for soa you are comparing apples to oranges. The DG fight was never cleared pre change without someone hitting the enrage whereas soa was cleared by folks without ever experiencing the enrage.

As for the hm/nightmare differences only BW knows and they still remain silent on the whole issue.

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Why this need to defend yourself, if you are so sure that you guys are so amazing just leave the trolls, or do you in reality agree with them and in your heart know that you wasn't really worldfirst? :rolleyes:

 

Edit: And for your knowledge, the issue with Soa wasn't the enrage timer, it was the bugs.

Edited by RikuvonDrake
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