Remove vote kick

[Ayelinna]

Friend of mine is repeatedly kicked from flashpoints because he is a F2P player. and because of restrictions. he can only equip level 50 blue mods . After all if anyone is not happy they have the option to leave without humiliating the guy with a game mechanic that promotes bad feelings and not enjoyable play

 

Well, vote kick is a feature in game, and so I'm going to use it. Its not like its exploiting or anything.

 

If I was in a flashpoint and someone was lacking behind because their gear was shockingly bad or they didnt even have sprint on, id use vote kick.

[Quraswren]

The kick feature should never be removed.

 

Sure it at times can be abused but overall it's a needed feature.

 

There are just way to many gamers out there that just deserve to be removed for various, good reasons.

[Exly]

Why doesn't BioWare just bolster gear in PVE? That way you would never have to worry about players being sufficiently geared, and would not have to vote kick them over that issue.

[Revenaught]

Why doesn't BioWare just bolster gear in PVE? That way you would never have to worry about players being sufficiently geared, and would not have to vote kick them over that issue.

 

No. The point of the game is to earn the gear to be able to do the content.

[Marrkin]

Why doesn't BioWare just bolster gear in PVE? That way you would never have to worry about players being sufficiently geared, and would not have to vote kick them over that issue.

 

They haven't really even been able to get any bolstering to work dependably for PvP .... why would you suggest such a thing for PvE as well?

[Atramar]

Why doesn't BioWare just bolster gear in PVE? That way you would never have to worry about players being sufficiently geared, and would not have to vote kick them over that issue.

 

would remove need of grind, sub/unlock, need of filling time.... not good for business.

pve is progression, you go from L 1 to L 55, get fixed enemies... I won't continue, there have been walls of text about this, I don't need to add another one...

 

don't remove tool which is used to remove tools.

[Marrkin]

don't remove tool which is used to remove tools.

 

This is the best summary I have seen yet....

[xorcist]

Here's a better solution. Do your "friend" a solid and treat him to an equipment authorization unlock.

 

Surely you can afford to buy your friend one if they are actually your friend.

 

Here's an even better solution. Bioware removes some of the ridiculous Free to Play restrictions. IE: artifact quality restriction...

 

OP: Tell your friend to forget about this game and play an MMO where F2P is actually worth playing. SWTOR is not it.

[branmakmuffin]

Here's an even better solution. Bioware removes some of the ridiculous Free to Play restrictions. IE: artifact quality restriction...

It's called "an incentive to subscribe." Every F2P/sub MMO has them. If TOR had different ones, you'd be complaining about them just as hard.

 

Edited July 1, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[Exly]

They haven't really even been able to get any bolstering to work dependably for PvP .... why would you suggest such a thing for PvE as well?

 

Why not? Shouldn't player skill be the determining factor in PVE just like it is in PVP? Besides, how is a person going to ever get geared up if they are always being vote kicked because they are under geared. It seems to me that bolstering them would make things better for all involved.

[RevansSoul]

Edited Edited July 1, 2013 by RevansSoul

[Skodan]

Why doesn't BioWare just bolster gear in PVE? That way you would never have to worry about players being sufficiently geared, and would not have to vote kick them over that issue.

 

so then only one person would need to grind for the gear?

[ScarletBlaze]

The player who lags behind everyone else due to lack of sprint is an easy tell.

 

Not necessarily. Some subscribers I know don't use sprint all the time.

[ScarletBlaze]

Friend of mine is repeatedly kicked from flashpoints because he is a F2P player. and because of restrictions. he can only equip level 50 blue mods . After all if anyone is not happy they have the option to leave without humiliating the guy with a game mechanic that promotes bad feelings and not enjoyable play

 

I don't like vote kicks because of the way some people use it to abuse the system and yes it can be abuse by some jerks who want to think they are better than anyone but your friend has been playing for how long under F2P? If he leveled from level 1 to level 50 he should have known that he would need the unlock the purple in order to do the lv 50 and 55 flashpoints and operations.

[Kilora]

I removed the names asap, I didn't realise that I was indeed calling them out, I apologize for that.

 

You're wrong about the rest though. You can prove abuse, by chat logs, recordings and screen caps. Second, just because it's the PTS doesn't mean you don't have a right to speak up. Third, I also suggested an alternative, which you didn't see.

 

You know what alternative is already in place? Reporting the people who abuse it.

 

Removing the vote-kick is a kneejerk reaction to abuse that probably isn't rampant. And there is no need for "penalties" for those who abuse ANY system -- because reporting them already has consequences. If they are reported mutliple times, or are in obvious breach of the ToS/EUALA -- they will be actioned.

 

Kicking you out because you are slow is NOT abuse. Kicking you out because they don't like you is NOT abuse. Obscene language and harassment is abuse, and should be reported.

[MillionsKNives]

Why not? Shouldn't player skill be the determining factor in PVE just like it is in PVP? Besides, how is a person going to ever get geared up if they are always being vote kicked because they are under geared. It seems to me that bolstering them would make things better for all involved.

 

As for skill vs gear in PVE, there is a very clearly defined progression in what you should be doing for PVE. Without progression there is no incentive to experience the encounters past the first time. Many people don't like the "gear treadmill" but it's what keeps people playing. Otherwise people just skip to the end and whine about having nothing to do, even moreso than they do now. At best you would have people occasionally go through all of the different encounters just for fun despite the lack of incentive (which already happens now), but that doesn't have any lasting draw.

 

For the argument of "how do they get gear if they're kicked", again there is a very clearly defined progression, with more and more ways of gaining the gear you need being added. At some level close to 50 you can start purchasing grade 25 mods for planetary comms from the Makeb vendor (no gear requirement). At 47 you can start gaining classic comms for doing Ilum and Belsavis dailies, as well as queuing for SM 50 Flashpoints for campaign gear (requires leveling gear only). You can also make your way to Makeb to start doing quests and dailies there for 50+ gear and basic comms (requires leveling gear only). At 50 you can queue for 50 HM flashpoints for more campaign gear (requires at the very least 50 blues), and start doing Section X and the Black Hole dailies for basic and classic comms (requires leveling gear only). At 55 you can begin queueing for the level 55 HM flashpoints for Black Market gear (requires at least roughly campaign level gear).

 

I've left out operations for this list, but those can get you all the gear you need as well. Considering crafting as well, there are plenty of ways to get the gear you need in order to run the next level of content, and saying there is no way is just an excuse for the lazy. There is no content in the game that requires the gear you get from it before running it, which by extension means that there is always a way to get the gear required to run the content you want to do ahead of time. You can skip steps as your gear and skill allows, but you will reach a point where you will be unable to properly perform or will be perceived to be unable to properly perform and will be kicked, so do so at your own risk.

Edited July 1, 2013 by MillionsKNives

[ScarletBlaze]

Why not? Shouldn't player skill be the determining factor in PVE just like it is in PVP? Besides, how is a person going to ever get geared up if they are always being vote kicked because they are under geared. It seems to me that bolstering them would make things better for all involved.

 

You can also purchase the mods, armoring, and enchancementts you need from the gtn or a cybertech crafter and artiface crafter

 

You can also become one of them and learn the purples and craft them yourself. There are various ways to get the mods you need.

 

My guild has a cybertech that can make up to lv 53 purple mods and she does so without any charge to our guild members. the guild members get the mats and she crafts them for them.

[Ocho-Quatro]

Quite frankly.... Nothing that's been posted in this thread holds any value.

 

I think we really need SirCopperfield's opinion on this matter.

[RevansSoul]

Edited Edited July 1, 2013 by RevansSoul

[branmakmuffin]

Kicking someone because they are slow is abusing the vote kick system. Kicking someone because you don't like them is abusing the vote kick system. The system exists to remove players from a group who are afk or wilfully disrupting a flashpoint or an operation, or insulting players. It doesn't exist so you can dismiss players who don't meet your speed/gear standards. This is a mmo, it's about teamwork and that goes for everyone, from the player who might not be the best and might not have the best gear to the player who does have very good gear and is very good.

Players who refuse to play the way the rest of the group plays are disruptive to the group. This applies to a zerger in a stop-and-smell the flowers group just as much as the reverse. If a group is fine with an "outlier," no problem, otherwise, it's better for everyone to part ways. If the only way to get that through to the outlier is to kick, so be it.

Edited July 1, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[Kilora]

Kicking someone because they are slow is abusing the vote kick system. Kicking someone because you don't like them is abusing the vote kick system. The system exists to remove players from a group who are afk or wilfully disrupting a flashpoint or an operation, or insulting players. It doesn't exist so you can dismiss players who don't meet your speed/gear standards. This is a mmo, it's about teamwork and that goes for everyone, from the player who might not be the best and might not have the best gear to the player who does have very good gear and is very good.

 

Right now the vote kick can be used on a whim, there's no moderation at all. People won't stop abusing that feature unless there are repercussions.

 

Please, show me proof of BWs stance on the vote-kick system, and/or a list of rules placed.

 

Oh, right -- there aren't any hard rules listed as to what is acceptible and what isn't. So NO -- kicking for being slow or disliking someone isn't TECHNICALLY abuse. You could not be actioned for it, as you aren't breaking any actual rules.

 

Gear is ABSOLUTELY a good reason to kick someone. If you are not in gear NECESSARY to do the group content -- you shouldn't be trying to do the group content. YOU don't get to dictate how the game was designed. Gear recommendations exist for a reason, and one person has no right to force 3 other people to carry them.

 

Vote-kick requires MULTIPLE people to agree to kick the person. That is one *restriction* put into place. Instead of making vague claims -- how about you actually give us some examples of how you could moderate this system? If you cannot give realistic ideas about it, don't bother recommending it.

 

The majority of the MMO community agrees that gear IS an important factor for group content. If you are in full 100 gear, you have NO right to attempt to do 50HMs, 55HMs, or any operations. If you have a group of people willing to carry you -- go for it. You do not have the right to assume others will carry you, or get mad if they won't. It IS about teamwork -- and by being significantly undergeared, you aren't being a team player.

[DarthTHC]

Here's an even better solution. Bioware removes some of the ridiculous Free to Play restrictions. IE: artifact quality restriction...

 

OP: Tell your friend to forget about this game and play an MMO where F2P is actually worth playing. SWTOR is not it.

 

If someone has played the game long enough to get to the point they're doing hard mode flash points, don't you think it's reasonable to ask them to pay the $5 or $8 or $3 or whatever it costs to get the artifact unlock?

 

A lot of people work on this game. They get up, shower, drive in to work, create content and features for 8-10-12 hours a day, then drive home to hopefully see their kids for an hour or two before they have to go to bed so they can do it again tomorrow. Just like you. Just like me. They deserve to be compensated for creating the entertainment we get in this game.

 

The fact that anyone at all can play that far for free - spending a grand total of $0 all the way to hard mode flash points - is astoundingly generous.

Edited July 1, 2013 by DarthTHC

[gorstram]

Players who refuse to play the way the rest of the group plays are disruptive to the group. This applies to a zerger in a stop-and-smell the flowers group just as much as the reverse. If a group is fine with an "outlier," no problem, otherwise, it's better for everyone to part ways. If the only way to get that through to the outlier is to kick, so be it.

 

If you want to smell the roses, get the tank on the board. The group will only move as fast as the tank does. Trust me, I've had DPS snarling like wild dogs because I pick up extra bonus stuff, listen to some convos, and if someone says they're new, I take the time to explain fights.

 

Speaking to the OP now, there is no way in the dark pits of Degobah, that I would want vote kick removed. There are some truly epic herp-derp players that even when coached are so bad that for the sake of the group, they must be culled like a two-headed Dewback. Also, there are those that come in (F2P are worst for this) don't realize what gear they should be using, and they need bomb on everything. Votekick allows that problematic player to be snipped from the group, instead of the group losing a tank or a healer (remember you DPS are a dime-a-dozen, so your opinion doesn't count).

[branmakmuffin]

If you want to smell the roses, get the tank on the board. The group will only move as fast as the tank does. Trust me, I've had DPS snarling like wild dogs because I pick up extra bonus stuff, listen to some convos, and if someone says they're new, I take the time to explain fights.

I would rather play in a group where everyone agrees how to run, rather than have grumblers holding back just because they don't want to out-run the tank.

[Jaavik]

as for the other reply my point still stands if your not happy their is an exit area button to use , no need to humiliate someone

 

Is having all 3 (or more if incoming replacements make the same choice) abandon the group you are in because you are too under-geared to be of benefit to the team any less "humiliating" than being kicked from the group?

 

I personally have no problem running flashpoints with people who are trying to learn the game, however, once you are into the realm of "Hard Mode Flashpoints", that ONE person can cause the entire team to wipe if they cannot handle their role in the group.

 

While I agree that it can be upsetting to be voted out of a group, your friend needs to understand what is expected of him in a Hard Mode Flashpoint. If he doesn't have the capability to perform what is needed of him, he shouldn't be in the group.

 

If you want to help your friend, help HIM/HER become a player capable of handling their responsibilities (through getting the gear needed) and stop asking everyone else around them to bend over backwards, compromise THEIR game experience, and make all the effort to make the game more enjoyable for the one person.

Edited July 1, 2013 by Jaavik