daeseer Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Since there is no 'spec' in EQ the comparison is pretty crappy. However, a properly geared druid + the correct alt advancement points spent in healing is a very decent healer. Wheras that exact same druid with dmg gear + those same alt advancement points spent in damage is a very decent DPS. The example fails however when you consider that there is no limit to alt advancement points and a druid that has played twice as long as the other two would have a druid that could both heal and DPS. Which just sorta outlines my original thought in that I expect people to have to WORK in order to be able to fill two different rolls. Being able to say, hey im going to be a main healer today or hey im going to be a bad *** DPS mofo today by merely dumping credits into a freaking box is dumb. Hell, I might even go so far as suggest the specing is a dumb system to begin with and it would be better if things worked like EQs alt advancement system. Yeah, I have a job already. If I wanted the game to be work, I'd just go get another job. At least a job would pay me, rather than requiring a monthly subscription. I've heard this argument many times, on the WoW forums and on here, and it always just makes me shrug. To each his own, I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FadedIdeals Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) I’m a little confused here. It seems to me Bioware designed most of the classes in such a way to make dual spec'ing unnecessary; many classes appear to have multiple roles built into them. The commando, for example, has a healing tree and two DPS trees; moreover, many of the skills have cross-tree synergy (such as DPS skills raising both damage and healing.) The commando’s primary stat is AIM, which contributes to both damage and healing power, covering your bases right there in one stat (other stats can still contribute, however.) Bioware then went further and added companions to make up for any weaknesses in your role and help with soloing, which I thought was a smashing idea (playing a DPS or healer class? Get a tank companion.) The biggest reason I can see for allowing dual specs would be for PvE versus PvP since the environment and expectations for these two arenas are often vastly different, requiring different skills. I would be completely behind having a slot for a PvE spec and one for PvP. Edited December 21, 2011 by FadedIdeals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrynen Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I'm glad you find it funny. I'm here to entertain and inform. Would you quit if there was no dual spec system? I'd quit if TOR devolved into WoW. It's a game. A game that should be fun and immersive. I daresay gameplay is one of the lesser bullet points of TOR. When the xpac comes ill be focused on whether it has a good story for all the classes, not whether the end raids have fat loots or whether it 'advances' the genre in new and innovative ways. I will want it to have a good immersive story. If it doesn't then I could simply just go back to playing EQ. I don't care about dual spec, but if the respec cost doesn't cap, then I probably won't be playing after my free month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dozerking Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Dual spec was patched into WoW, that in turn led to horrible implementations such as LFD and insta-port to dungeons. Let me tell you why me and others are so blatantly opposed to this. Convenience options such as this completely shattered immersion in WoW, that inturn led people only to care about gear and spec for PvP and raiding. When immersion is broken, nothing is left EXCEPT the "physical" reward. This is first and foremost a story-driven MMO, you cannot deny this, and part of being a story MMO is keeping players immersed, this entails working for things and making choices (sometimes difficult ones) which end up enchancing the experience rather than detracting from it. BioWare clearly wants players to level up multiple classes to enjoy their diverse stories. What's the point if you can just respec to a different role? Many people would not level up a second class, muich to the detriment of BioWare's work on the story of every class (furthermore I can guarantee they would be missing out on some pretty epic stories ). I'd also like to remind people of the days before Dual Spec in WoW, was it really so bad? The answer is clearly NO. People either A: respeced completely and had to learn from the ground up and PAY the price for doing so, or B: rerolled and leveled up a second class. Both of these benefited Blizzard, it made a gold sink and got players through leveling content they had not seen before. Why is this good for the player? It makes you value the time you spend more, and especially your character and spec in the first place! For PvP players this reduces the "FoTM" problem drastically by making people learn to truly choose the role and spec they want from the get go and learn to ride out any discrepancies in patch "nerfs" or "buffs". As for those of you whose guilds will "force" you to change roles for hard core raiding, honestly I can tell you from personal experience if you aren't willing to take the time to simply level a character perhaps the hard-core raiding zone is not for you.Mmaybe if you don't want to take the time to re-roll you shouldn't be in that guild, I personally am leveling two classes for my raiding guild, and I am content in having to level them both up, that is the least of my troubles, sure it is a time-sink SORT OF, but BioWare has done an exceptional job here in making leveling enjoyable. Also if you don't enjoy the leveling you are in the wrong game Overall Dual-spec and similar options people have been crying over won't help, just soothe a problem that's been the cause of many other player-driven issues, let people complain for awhile BioWare, they will learn to appreciate the decision you made. Rubbish. A lot of people don't have the time to roll 2 characters with work and a family. Dual spec is the evolution of MMO's, and Bioware has already stated this and is implementing it in the next few months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPeterson Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Simply put, if you reroll the same class to heal,dps, or tank the story line does not change at all. So it seems ur reason for this opinion is a bit off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajikMyst Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I am against dual speccing of any kind.. But I am reserved to the idea that it will most likely be added to the game.. I agree that dual speccing had a hand in ruining WOW..Especially when it came to looting.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mautalent Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Before I played the game I would have dissagreed with you, but since I played the game I know for a fact that you don't need to have duel spec. I am a guardian defensive spec and I do great in PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alraun Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 You have your cause and effect backwards, OP. I remember before dual spec, a bunch of people would be raid spec for raiding then have to pay the high cost to swap to pvp spec for the weekend. And then, those of us for whom it didn't matter so much (I was a mage at the time), would be left twiddling our thumbs if we wanted to do BGs after the raid was over for the day. Then we'd be forced to make our raid schedule around people who wanted to respec for pvp in theiir off time (especially tanks), because respeccing was too expensive for them to just do it twice a day. Dual spec was the best thing that happened to WoW. Mostly, dual spec if a stopgap for game design. You have to be specced a certain way when you're in a raid unless you want to lose your spot, but you may not want to be specced that way when you're off doing other things. No, dual spec isn't necessarily the most elegant solution to this problem, but it is a solution and you can't just leave these people out to dry. OTOH, I think there should have been a cooldown of at least an hour. Or maybe when you get saved to a raid, the spec you're using gets saved? I do consider it abuse of the feature for people to switch specs every encounter, but I would much rather see the feature abused in this way than see so many people not have realistic access to half the content in the game. You might want us to start an alt, and Bioware might too, but a lot of us want to experience it all on one char, and who are you to tell us we can't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heroBrauni Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) I cant realy see the points the OP is trying to make, first off, I love the story and the way it is told, I dont skip dialoges but enjoy them. Anyways, in none of those storytelling elements my spec had any influence, Im not quite sure but I think not even my AC matters. So "RP" can't be the reason to restrict me to one spec imo. Second, I remember those days without dualspec. I played a rogue in WoW at this time, so i didnt even have any different "roles". That didnt change the fact that I spent about 100g every day (think 50g was the cost cap) for respecing. Simply because I played PvP and Raids at the same day. I can understand people saying "just play PvE and PvP with the same spec" but if I do so I will not reach my full potention in both areas of the game. In PvP it might make the difference between killing and getting killed and in PvE it will cost me quite some DPS to play with the "non cookie cutter build". So it was a relief for my pocket to get the chance to switch between PvP and PvE in a matter of seconds. To answer the OPs question wether it was so bad without Dualspec: YES, compared to playing with it, it was. Was the game enjoyable without: YES, it was, but I feel like the fun was more limited. Last point I want to make it that I think its way better to stick with a char over playing 2 or 3 or 8. I love the attitude of my smuggler and hell yea I love healing with him in both PvP and PvE (so far) but while questing on my own it is painful. Sure my Wookie can kill stuff just fine with me healing him like a madman, but is this realy fun? I dont think so, at least not compared to killing those NPCs (!) with my scattergun. Am I leveling as a DD? Nope Im not, I hope for my friends and guildmates to level with me so I can heal actual players (mostly doing quests way above our level for my entertainment, read: to not fall asleep). Or I do warzones which give me quite some levels but make me miss all the story TL:DR: I dont NEED dual spec, but hell I WANT it Edited December 21, 2011 by heroBrauni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezencatli Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Freely switching between two specs doesn't ruin immersion. Running back to the guy to respec and filling out the tree probably ruins immersion more. l As long as people aren't switching their advance class. I don't see the problem. It doesn't ruin community. It's convenient for people who want to PvE and PvP or just whatever role they need. There is a case to be made for things like dungeon tool, cross server mechanics, and bracketed PvP. But that really isn't the case here. This is just some anti-WoW sentimentality that is the basis for a lot of threads like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverse Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Dual spec gives you more options in playing your character and this game needs it badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alraun Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Before I played the game I would have dissagreed with you, but since I played the game I know for a fact that you don't need to have duel spec. I am a guardian defensive spec and I do great in PvP. And you assume that all classes and spec are exactly as universal as yours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeseer Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I am against dual speccing of any kind.. But I am reserved to the idea that it will most likely be added to the game.. I agree that dual speccing had a hand in ruining WOW..Especially when it came to looting.. For everything except pallies and druid tanks, they fixed this. For example, priests of all specs need spirit cloth gear. Balance druids use the same gear as resto druids. Yeah, pallies really do need three different sets, as do resto/feral druid combos. But it's pretty well fixed for everybody else. And I'd assert that WoW is still far from ruined. It's still one of the best games ever made. So is SWTOR, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamzaBehoulve Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Why the hell should I waste time and money to do something I know by heart? It's just a pointless mechanic that needs to disappear and never come back again in any MMO. There is absolutely no downside to dual spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACKKETYL Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) I agree that dual speccing had a hand in ruining WOW..Especially when it came to looting.. Maybe but probably not... But having companions who need gear is going to accomplish the same thing. Edited December 21, 2011 by BLACKKETYL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJDEATHFLEA Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I agree to a point, however, in any game that is both PVP and PVE I think that you should be able to take part in both and spec yourself in a way that is optimized around that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerinKor Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) Great post and I completely agree with this. Dual spec is for lazy people who don't want to enjoy this game for what it is. Don't be absurd, having to spend time and a non-trivial amount of cash simply to switch roles from healing to being able to solo to level is not at all "lazy". I assume you're a typical one-trick DPS monkey, for whom teh big numberz are the only thing that matters .. and in WOW you played a huntard .. because no way can someone who plays flexible classes would think like you do. Edited December 21, 2011 by KerinKor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alraun Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I recanted didn't I? Re-read what I said. If its just about specs and not advanced classes, then having to redo the _entire_ story is not necessary, because its the same. What I don't want is just a credit dump. I demand story driven ways to respec and dual spec, so it makes sense in the TOR universe. If not, then NO DUAL SPEC. Deal with it. And in what story driven ways does it makes sense for x-abilityto be dealing 20 more damage after a patch so now you have to change to it? Heck, what story driven ways does it make sense for a non-Jedi/Sith to have even a remote chance of defeating a Jedi/Sith??? The story is important, but it always has to give way to game balance first. Dual spec ALREADY exists as a credit dump... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakinor Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 It is already on it's way in, so I would suggest you try and come to terms with the world shattering implications rather than stoke up a heated debate over it. Lol dual spec is not in the game in any way, if you mean the ability to respec that was also in WoW long before dual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrifKaylon Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Lol dual spec is not in the game in any way, if you mean the ability to respec that was also in WoW long before dual On it's way in. Confirmed by the developers that it will be added in an early content patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvinu Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Dual spec was patched into WoW, that in turn led to horrible..... seriously??? i stoped reading there... because u didnt play wow at all, or u played 1month in vanilla. not more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dasthug Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Anyone who is against a dual-spec feature but fine with being able to respec an infinite number of times is absolutely a hypocrite. You are either locked into your choices or you aren't. It is unfathomable to me how the idea of not requiring you to travel to your capital city every time you want to change your spec generates so much ill-conceived rage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKhayos Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Dual Spec is a convenience, nothing more. We're already able to swap between ACs, albeit having to spend large amounts of credits to do so. DS just means we can swap more quickly and easily without having to memorize specs and restructure action bars. The sky is not falling. We'll all live to see another day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tychoides Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) My mind is completely blown that there are people who are actually against dual spec. Against dual advanced classes I totally get, but come on... I have yet to see one single convincing argument against dual spec. The only argument that even comes close has to do with gear and people "stealing" gear for off-specs from main specs, but given the current stat system implemented in this game, that seems to be a minor issue at best. Then again, given the amount of trolling and hatred being spewed towards WoW, I guess I shouldn't be too surprised... I'm glad to hear that dual spec is something already in the works for the game, then these people complaining about it can level up classes twice and not use it, which is obviously the only real way to play. Edited December 21, 2011 by Tychoides Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApesAmongUs Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 And in what story driven ways does it makes sense for x-abilityto be dealing 20 more damage after a patch so now you have to change to it? Um... there's no story driven way for "damage" to be a number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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