Combat Logs are coming! Damage meters & analysis soon to follow!

[LordBerenger]

Ignorance does more harm than good.

 

Sweaty nerds with their face invaded by pimples, coming straight from WoW who keeps complaining on their teammates for not doing enough dmg and acting like douchebags does more harm than good.

[Gorklaw]

The idea of combat logs is good, extra information is always nice.

 

I am totally an elitist when it comes to DPS, if I can deal one more DPS by wearing a pink tutu to raids, by gods I will be wearing that pink tutu. But I have NEVER EVER EVER liked it when guilds FORCED people to wear that pink Tutu. That's just not right.

 

People have mentioned that the only thing that matters is success, and they right, but that's not the whole story. Say you need a minimum of 1k DPS from two different people to kill a boss in a Hard Mode Flashpoint, that's not a lot is it? Tanks could probably do that! But that's the minimum, and that would take twice as long as if the two dps were doing 2k, or four times as long if they could each do 4k.

 

I'm all for experimental, fun to play specs. And I'm all for Combat logs, but the issue here is whether or not other people are going to be able to see YOUR damage. And I personally don't think combat logs should be shared. Yes, there will be raids were Derp McDerpington screws you over because he's 50DPS under the minimum. But if Derp over there has his OWN logs, THEY can see that THEY are that much behind the calculated minimum requirement. If they refuse to step up then that becomes a personal fault.

 

To put it simply, I don't care either way, but I feel it would create more player responsibility if this information could be easily accessed and portrayed. A literal case of "Hello Derp! I see you are doing BOSS on hard mode, he has 1.5 million health and enrages in five minutes, this means you must do a minimum of 1250 DPS! Good luck and have fun!" and then after the boss a "Hello again Derp! My data recorded you only doing 1200 DPS and the boss enraged. That is unfortunate, good luck on your next attempt!"

 

The talking is me giving the combat log a personality. Not actually somebody talking to you like that.

[Snowred]

Sweaty nerds with their face invaded by pimples, coming straight from WoW who keeps complaining on their teammates for not doing enough dmg and acting like douchebags does more harm than good.

 

And this is exactly what we have to look forward too as if the community wasn't poisonous enough

[WarTornPanda]

Sweaty nerds with their face invaded by pimples, coming straight from WoW who keeps complaining on their teammates for not doing enough dmg and acting like douchebags does more harm than good.

 

I find the anti-meter crowd to be much more aggressive in their stance and quicker to throw out insults.

[PercuroNex]

All the ex wow crybabies can now ********** while watching everyones numbers dancing around their screen. If that's what floats your boat, My sub will be cancelled at the end of the month.

 

GG you got what you wanted!.

[Shingara]

Im not pro meter and anti meters as i couldnt give a flying ........... if they come or not but to everyone i will just say also in a recent interview given by steven reid to i think it was torwars it was also stated that any metrics would be for measuring yourself only.

[Djhots]

If they do not provide a combat log and parses soon I am done with this game. Edited February 7, 2012 by Djhots

[Daedalin]

Whenever I think of combat parsers I think of the old gun analogy. How guns don't kill people, but a person behind the gun does.

 

Tools will be used by people as much as the tool allows it to be. I don't think it's fair for someone to be treated like dirt because of how they are performing, or under performing. But by that same standard, is it fair for the group to have to spend time and credits on supplies/repair because someone doesn't have a good rotation? Do you think it would be fair if I stacked prescience on my guardian, and then asked to tank your HM EV?

 

No it wouldn't. Unfortunately there are a lot of players who don't take the time to read and learn. Who try to say they shouldn't have to because it isn't supposed to be a "second job." While that assessment could be correct, their failure to educate themselves affects the greater good.

 

It's not hard by any means to read basic strats and guides. But a lot people rationalize that if they only have 2 hours to play a night, they shouldn't have to spend half of that reading. They also rationalize that they should be allowed access to the same amounts of items/rewards as those that do spend that time learning.

 

I don't believe a combat parser is bad. I would love to know how my dps is doing in ops, so we can figure out how to help someone, and more specifically who needs the help. That being said though, once parsers come out I will probably not run in many pug groups either.

 

The people who have been abused/afraid of parsers just need to find a friend, a guild, or a good website. Read up, bond a little, and put their best foot forward. I find that 90% of the time if you tell the group your learning, or that your trying your best just working out some kinks, most people are willing to help and not ridicule. Heck, on WoW I usually tanked on my pally, and not once was I criticized for dumb mistakes. When I decided to learn healing, not once was I berated. Several times I did receive helpful tips and hints, and even made a friend to have casual conversations with. As I got better, those people were more likely to want to run with me, because they knew I wanted to learn.

 

Essentially, we need parsers. Not because I want to see dps numbers (well except for my guild ) but to weed out those who are willing and want to learn, and those that don't.

[Deirhese]

Only harm I see is if dot heavy classes can't put out much damage on weak trash packs then the group will kick em for not doing much damage. Not the dot classes fault that most fp trash can be nuked in mere seconds before dots can do much.

[Sun-Runner]

I'm not pro meter and anti meters as i couldn't give a flying ........... if they come or not but to everyone i will just say also in a recent interview given by Steven Reid to i think it was torwars it was also stated that any metrics would be for measuring yourself only.

 

/general "LF$valueM for $string. Whisper with verification code from $website for invite."

 

Said verification code is obtained by downloading a minor client app that takes screenshots of your game window, does a quick CRS (made really easy by the standard window placement and display font), parses the numbers the CRS returns and uploads the verified numbers to the website which then generates the verification code for later reference.

 

Make it account-based, and it'll keep a running total of your numbers instantly shareable to others for all of your characters.

 

This isn't rocket science.

[Boxcar]

You can keep your damage meters and combat logs.

 

Translation: "I'm bad at this game"

[samht]

Until today, I was all for recount and such, but after today I just don't know no more. Today in LFR (yes, WoW) the raid group kept on kicking people who where healer that were not healing over 16K. (I play as a tank) I kept telling people that it wasn't the healing but the fact that people were trying to aoe down adds when they should single target them and burn them down. Long story short after 12 wipes, 6 sets of new healers and probably 3 sets of new dps, we were able to get deathwing done because people finally listned to what I was saying. Thus, from now on I think recount can do more damage then good in a PUG but in a guild run I could see how it would help progression, hence, I just don't know no more

[samht]

Only harm I see is if dot heavy classes can't put out much damage on weak trash packs then the group will kick em for not doing much damage. Not the dot classes fault that most fp trash can be nuked in mere seconds before dots can do much.

 

I have never seen people be kicked on thrash pull, every gamer worth their weight in salt know its the boss that counts when you are looking at recount. Plus tanks usually win dps races on thrash anyways.

[voidheart]

I would love to see combat logs and damage meters in the game, and other addons ofc it would be a huge refreshment for the game.

Although the game dosen't really need dps meters right now, we just need better gear for Nightmare ops and luck not to get bugged

[Frostvein]

If you have time to play this game and post in this thread, then you have the 15 or 20 minutes a month to go to your class forums and learn how to properly contribute to your groups.

[Koevn]

Translation: "I'm bad at this game"

 

Get a different translator, yours is clearly wrong. Might be hard for you to understand, probalby impossible because of your obviously limited ability to comprehend different views; but some players actually play a mmo without caring about "numbers" and being the hightest dps'er, healer, etc.

[Erulinda]

Here comes the Elitisme

[ironix]

I am always surprised to see my thread get necro'd back to the front page, though I believe this thread is long outlived its usefulness. I should really edit it to read "Neutered and essentially useless combat logs are coming!"

 

On another note... Doing hard mode content with another healer who I believe may not be very good and slow at his job (and thus failing to down things), is very frustrating. I want to bring his performance up with the raid leader, but I have nothing to back up my claims other than subjective information that is entirely based on staring at health bars mostly only moving when I heal...

[Amarynthum]

The problem is the limitation of space in groups and raids. If content is difficult then people are automatically classified in good or bad - either you can play your class or get lost, that's it. This is _not_ what _I_ like, but that's reality, get it. And there are two ways to solve that issue.

 

1. No group or raid limits - making zergs possible

2. Visit special zones and difficulty levels only in your preferred groups, resulting in faster or, in case of equally low-skilled-gamers, slower progression

 

Blizzard tried to reduce the problem by simply implementing different difficulty levels and, now, the LFR. People crying "Ohh, that's TOO easy" get automatically slapped their faces for not being able to shift to the next difficult level instead of doing too-easy-content and powerwhining forums. That's it: Put responsibility on gamers, not on developers.

 

But this does _not_ solve the problem as it comes back as soon as you hit normal or even hardmode zones. Then people, especially the one thinking of themselves how great they're doing, want tools to demonstrate that player X isn't that good as he or she is. Competitive gaming, known from PVP, "infects" PVE, which makes things curious: My best friend in raid is not only my best friend but my first opponent and if not him, then the idiot from last time - HAR, come, be my enemy...

 

And yes, you are right: This is also a form, a very bad form of putting the responsibility on gamers, not on devs - people are not blaming the lack of creating good fights without reducing everything on numbers, but are blaming, instead, each other.

 

For raid designers those tools are great. Not only they have proper tools for balancing, they also educate peoples to focus purely on numbers. If that point is reached the one and only target of a game is to implement items with higher numbers. And again. And again. And again. Till you reach a level which is too high, then you flatten the item numbers and BAM, there we go again and again and again. This is easy to implement and the greatest motivational engine for upcoming expansions. That's what I call "Fast Food Content" or "Wash 'n' Go Itemization".

 

For me those DMG meters aren't a great idea. Not because the tools are bad - but because people are. And statistics are dangerous if not well understood or not well used as people tend to reduce _everything_ on few numbers. Not because they are idiots, but because they - already searching for a simplification of a complex comparison task - are willing to act that way. They _want_ a simple number they point to and say "hey, look, you suck".

 

In my long career as mmo gamer I've met perhaps ten players who really were able to use statistics in a proper way. The rest used to turn boring raids in a GCC, a genital-comparison-challenge, making raids more interesting for them but raised up a lot of bad and evil backbiting...

 

... which, yes, would also exist without dmg meters, but with less substance as there would be no "proof" for their accusations.

 

And, btw., reducing a game to numbers results in some kind of demystification of the game. I like the world and the fact to be part of it. As soon as numbers hit the game, it suddenly turns into a World of StarWarsCraft. At this point there is no reason for me to play a SciFi-Copy if I could easily play the original - from which I've escaped successfully.

So far.

 

 

Ama

Edited February 7, 2012 by Amarynthum

[Dray]

Yea I'll be sure not to use those and to stay away from the guilds that require you to have them. Thanks but no thanks.

 

I smell noob. Only reason you'd be against someone else knowing your dps is if you know you're draggin ***. Period. I want to know whos draggin *** so I can get rid of them. You don't want me to know so you can leech off me. "Thanks but no thanks" leech.

[NiteLogan]

All the ex wow crybabies can now ********** while watching everyones numbers dancing around their screen. If that's what floats your boat, My sub will be cancelled at the end of the month.

 

GG you got what you wanted!.

 

You sir are a moron, you came on my thread which arguably I made it very late so it was a big block of info. You assume because I want a combat log I played that POS game WOW, I didn't and I find it funny going through your comments through out the boards you keep making references to WOW "oh they must be from wow if they want a combat log". I played DAoC from the first month it was out and *gasp* they had combat logs, I played for nearly 7 years so I have seen these devs make some great choices and some terible mistakes they also unfortunately did Warhammer but we will forgive them for that. Let me guess you're going to quit this game and buy GW2? just like every other person is saying. why wait go play league of legends or get on your xbox and play some COD with your modded controler.... I made the post because I play a tank and yes I understand how the sheild mechanics work and focus fire but very routinely I am being 1 shot when I am roughly around 60% life thats why I want combat logs and they have been saying they were going to implement them soon since before the game came out and when I say combat log I mean I'd just like to scroll up and see what I hit for or what another player hit me for not to discriminate against other players

Edited February 7, 2012 by NiteLogan

[Amarynthum]

I smell noob. Only reason you'd be against someone else knowing your dps is if you know you're draggin ***. Period.

 

A "period" would be wrong here. There are far more reasons, but one of the common ones is the fact that you don't like to be in a competition mode with others all time long. Well, at least this was what I heard from guys in WoW - this isn't my first discussion about dmg meters and surely not my last

[Dray]

Whenever I think of combat parsers I think of the old gun analogy. How guns don't kill people, but a person behind the gun does.

 

Tools will be used by people as much as the tool allows it to be. I don't think it's fair for someone to be treated like dirt because of how they are performing, or under performing. But by that same standard, is it fair for the group to have to spend time and credits on supplies/repair because someone doesn't have a good rotation? Do you think it would be fair if I stacked prescience on my guardian, and then asked to tank your HM EV?

 

No it wouldn't. Unfortunately there are a lot of players who don't take the time to read and learn. Who try to say they shouldn't have to because it isn't supposed to be a "second job." While that assessment could be correct, their failure to educate themselves affects the greater good.

 

It's not hard by any means to read basic strats and guides. But a lot people rationalize that if they only have 2 hours to play a night, they shouldn't have to spend half of that reading. They also rationalize that they should be allowed access to the same amounts of items/rewards as those that do spend that time learning.

 

I don't believe a combat parser is bad. I would love to know how my dps is doing in ops, so we can figure out how to help someone, and more specifically who needs the help. That being said though, once parsers come out I will probably not run in many pug groups either.

 

The people who have been abused/afraid of parsers just need to find a friend, a guild, or a good website. Read up, bond a little, and put their best foot forward. I find that 90% of the time if you tell the group your learning, or that your trying your best just working out some kinks, most people are willing to help and not ridicule. Heck, on WoW I usually tanked on my pally, and not once was I criticized for dumb mistakes. When I decided to learn healing, not once was I berated. Several times I did receive helpful tips and hints, and even made a friend to have casual conversations with. As I got better, those people were more likely to want to run with me, because they knew I wanted to learn.

 

Essentially, we need parsers. Not because I want to see dps numbers (well except for my guild ) but to weed out those who are willing and want to learn, and those that don't.

 

 

To ammend my last post, a self identified leech is no leech at all. I'm happy to teach. Not identifying yourself is telling me you either don't know youre bad or can't accept it, either way I'll help you learn the game, but you need to want the help. I'll help you learn the game mechanics, not convince you of reality. Not even letting people KNOW you're bad makes it IMPOSSIBLE for us to help you. Ironically, the combat logs are your (bad players') best bet for success in MMOs. They take away the drama of breaking the ice, cut to the chase and let the pros know who needs help. 90% of us are ready and willing, but just aren't interested in being jerked around. Parsers tell pros little about themselves (but provide some friendly competition if used correctly, like they usually are), and tell noobs tons of what they need to know to succeed. The game's a bean counter, it doesn't care about your feelings. Do the deeps or go home.

[Dray]

A "period" would be wrong here. There are far more reasons, but one of the common ones is the fact that you don't like to be in a competition mode with others all time long. Well, at least this was what I heard from guys in WoW - this isn't my first discussion about dmg meters and surely not my last

 

I stand by the "period" vehemently. You may concoct some other ******** reasons for not wanting to have someone view your stats, but they're just that: ********. If the "reason" for not wanting the meter is to avoid competition it begs the question, why not be competitive? Because youre sucking. Same answer.

 

Read this, for your own sake:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

[Amarynthum]

Same answer.

 

I do not know why you are that angry, at least you seem to want offending me. But I have to proof you wrong

 

Me, for example, used to be top dps for a long time, rogue, warlock, mage, whatever you want. I spent a lot of time and I liked it to improve my character. Those tools were useful for that time, but useless for me later when content was that easy that the most dangerous thing to happen would have been me sleeping away...

 

But I still don't liked it to be "competitive" all time long. From time to time, yes, when content was challenging, ok. But with overaggroing players without any movement awareness just to read that he did 1% more dps than me before he was part of the wall or groud these tools were a pita and not a blessing.

 

You might think differently, but this does not mean that you're automatically right