Combat Logs are coming! Damage meters & analysis soon to follow!

[DaxRendar]

I hope Combat Logs are only available in Hard Mode.

 

They aren't needed in Normal and if people want to be really Hardcore in Nightmare then they shouldn't be available there either

 

At least there are no plans right now for Addons

Edited January 23, 2012 by DaxRendar

[Frostvein]

Nowhere in Zoeller's statements does it say Meters are coming. Only that there would be access to a combat log for parsing. Parser =/= real-time meters

 

I think alot of people who are clinging to the hope that recount or a recount like meter won't be available because of that quote are going to be sorely disappointed.

[Morcova]

i like the combat log...so i can see people sploiting or not..but...the problem is..it will cause more lag to people who have issues anyway..more lag = more qq :S

 

It wont cause lag.

[blitxz]

I'm eager to get my combat log there to much happening in the back of the game that we can't see. Combat log is not a dps metric only that is actually wrong the combat log help ppl confirm if everything is working as intended how can u assure that the skill are working as intended or as they are describe if u can't see it. Its really wrong to see a new mmo that did not incorporate them at launch and that the priority of it seems pretty low or they don't want us to see all the wrong things happen on the back of the game. Well for the ppl that say that combat logs are not necessary i hope i never find one u guys using a guide to maximize dps cuz must of them are created under hard work using combat metrics from the so hated combat log. Information can never be bad is how u use it that is.

[Abivonkerubi]

In my humble opinion those who are afraid of mods/parsers are the people that have been bullyed all their MMO life because the are poor players.

Can you do end content in MMO without mods? probably yes but you would have to be Korean!

 

So, if you afraid mods, or just don't want to use those.. you are bad player, ok. There's many guilds, as far i know, those are not Korean ppl and they have cleared all content, without mods and even nighmare...

 

I'd like to have dmgmeter like Lotro got.. you can see own dps but you can't link it to others and other players can't see your dps/ hps.

[iconicman]

The trouble with combat logs and min/maxing is the encounters start to revolve around them. The developers start from the assumption everyone will already min/max and analyse the crap out of the log after a couple of failed attempts to work out the script.

[dopebeats]

The trouble with combat logs and min/maxing is the encounters start to revolve around them. The developers start from the assumption everyone will already min/max and analyse the crap out of the log after a couple of failed attempts to work out the script.

 

Welcome to PVE in MMOs. This is actually what keeps people playing PVE in MMOs. It is what gives raiders their 'high'. When you try content for weeks, at first you fail pretty bad you aren't sure if you can do it, then you see "oh this time we got him to 50% and survived retarded X mechanic" then you get the oh we got him 20% and you just know you have it on your next attempt. Then you finally have the coveted "money shot". You hear the out cries in guild chat/ventrilo and the PVEers get there coveted endorphin rush and everyone feels as though they have accomplished something. This is what progression raiding is all about, well that and dealing with terrible players which both are greatly benefited from combat logs(from a tuning standpoint and an identifying terribleness standpoint). I mean look at old EQ guilds and their websites where they spend months trying to down one boss/encounter. You would frequently see screenshots of sub 10% HP bosses and expect to see a corpse shot soon. The move away from that was terrible for PVE and removed alot of the fun in PVE. Bioware give us bosses that could disband guilds, give us content that gives people that 'high'. Don't make all content just for loot. Design content that requires trials and tribulations to open up the loot pinata. If you want a reference refer to EQ Planes of Power/Velious. However, now im a PVPer so take that as you will. Just remember, without struggle there is no progress.

[Excedrin]

The trouble with combat logs and min/maxing is the encounters start to revolve around them. The developers start from the assumption everyone will already min/max and analyse the crap out of the log after a couple of failed attempts to work out the script.

 

Difficulty levels exist for this reason. Normal level operations are pretty damn simple.

[va_wanderer]

The trouble with combat logs and min/maxing is the encounters start to revolve around them. The developers start from the assumption everyone will already min/max and analyse the crap out of the log after a couple of failed attempts to work out the script.

 

This. Players min-maxing results in devs building content around min-maxing. Combat logs are a big reason this can happen.

 

Not Fun. Building the game to shrinking margins of error leads to content wasted for large chunks of the population that find the whole process of cookie-cutter specs and rotations tiresome at best- and simply don't end up doing it.

 

You want "raider highs", just keep hardmodes in, including ways to "superspawn" things like world mobs.

Edited January 23, 2012 by va_wanderer

[NuanceNW]

Who says games need to cater to raider highs? Seriously do a majority of players want game changes to cater to a few?

 

I'll just say because it needs to be said. Best those seeking these changes write their own game because that community will not be satisfied until they've scripted every encounter, macro'd every ability and have a worldoflogs to justify their dps.

 

This stuff ruins the actual play for the rest of us who can take on hard encounters through trial, error and swapping out players until we find the right mix -- which is called playing the game, not scripting the outcomes or ensuring a guaranteed win based on statistics...

Edited January 23, 2012 by NuanceNW

[dopebeats]

This. Players min-maxing results in devs building content around min-maxing. Combat logs are a big reason this can happen.

 

Not Fun. Building the game to shrinking margins of error leads to content wasted for large chunks of the population that find the whole process of cookie-cutter specs and rotations tiresome at best- and simply don't end up doing it.

 

You want "raider highs", just keep hardmodes in, including ways to "superspawn" things like world mobs.

 

Well, I believe this just lets the developers off easy and the progression raiders left hungry. This is why this model is full of fail and when blizzard went to this model they started to lose subs. The formula is fairly simple. Have content that requires challenge once you breakthrough "brick wall" you get rewarded with fairly easy content(in relation to the content you just completed) that drops significantly better content so that you can gear up for next tightly tuned encounter. Also this new content area would have rare crafting recipes/materials. Hard modes aren't new content they are simply recycling the same content. Maybe leave hardmodes for rare mounts/weapons/titles/craftables or something.

[dopebeats]

Who says games need to cater to raider highs? Seriously do a majority of players want game changes to cater to a few?

 

I'll just say because it needs to be said. Best those seeking these changes write their own game because that community will not be satisfied until they've scripted every encounter, macro'd every ability and have a worldoflogs to justify their dps.

 

This stuff ruins the actual play for the rest of us who can take on hard encounters through trial, error and swapping out players until we find the right mix -- which is called playing the game, not scripting the outcomes or ensuring a guaranteed win based on statistics...

 

You can continue to do that with combat logs. Its apparent that you won't use them either way so why begrudge others who ultimately make your experience in this game better. Combat logs help with a variety of bug fixes and whatnot. This isnt just raider highs. This is the basic psychology of humans. This is what makes good MMOs and this is why they retain their playerbase. When you put time, energy and effort into something and you finally see the reward you get that feeling of satisfaction, relief and joy. You can still get this satisfaction if you want to play your crazy terrible spec. Maybe you get this feeling from topping the meters with your technically worse spec. Maybe you get this feeling from maybe not topping dps/healing meters but the utility that you offer others. So what if your dps is 70% of what the top DPS but you allowed him to maximize his dps through your utility, be it resource regeneration, a buff that boost the raids damage or whatever. If your AC has no things of that sort than thats a design problem with the game. Also there is still trial and error in raiding with combat logs. The only difference is you have a way to review where the errors are. You are complaining about min/maxing in a game that has stats that do NOTHING for certain classes. If I play an OP why would I ever get willpower. In the same respect why can't I just use my rank one spells why should I have to upgrade them. Its an obvious answer because they are simply better. You are playing a game built off of random dice rolls. Why would you expect it to not be heavily based on math. This is like playing roulette and complaining that you are losing. Or playing roulette and thinking you will win in the long term against the house.

[Zeppelin]

This. Players min-maxing results in devs building content around min-maxing. Combat logs are a big reason this can happen.

 

Not Fun. Building the game to shrinking margins of error leads to content wasted for large chunks of the population that find the whole process of cookie-cutter specs and rotations tiresome at best- and simply don't end up doing it.

 

You want "raider highs", just keep hardmodes in, including ways to "superspawn" things like world mobs.

 

Not all content is built around raids min/max'ing to their peek efficieny. That's what normal modes are for.

[Zeppelin]

Who says games need to cater to raider highs? Seriously do a majority of players want game changes to cater to a few?

 

I'll just say because it needs to be said. Best those seeking these changes write their own game because that community will not be satisfied until they've scripted every encounter, macro'd every ability and have a worldoflogs to justify their dps.

 

This stuff ruins the actual play for the rest of us who can take on hard encounters through trial, error and swapping out players until we find the right mix -- which is called playing the game, not scripting the outcomes or ensuring a guaranteed win based on statistics...

 

This isn't changing anything, it's adding to the game. Adding to the game is always positive, even if it's a feature you particulary wouldn't use.

[Iskareot]

Also note this was before launch.

 

... that should have been mentioned prior to anyone even looking at this.

 

ALSO... there was a lot mentioned might be added into the game.. but yeah... no time was set in stone.

 

Which is great.

[IasonEvan]

the people that want numbers would be better off moving to vegas and becoming bookies. at least then you could make money doing what you love: numbers crunching. Or better yet, become CPA's.

 

This is going to lead to a really lame nerf/buff or two in the future. Have fun with your class hate when you find problems in the numbers that X player class isn't carrying the same weight as Player class Y. I could care less about people using this as a metric for measuring whether or not bobby or susan are geared properly, i care about it for when people start noticing a 10 DPS difference for a class in a Raid and then that class becomes obsolete and no one will take theat class in raids anymore.

 

Whatever happened o just playing for fun? This game is the farthest thing from being a challenge ever. It's all story and they do a great job of it. Whatevs, to each his own. Way to suck all the joy and immersion out of a game.

[Iskareot]

This isn't changing anything, it's adding to the game. Adding to the game is always positive, even if it's a feature you particulary wouldn't use.

 

Wrong and wrong...

 

Ever heard of the NGE? lol..

 

Yeah your concept and knowing fails...

 

Adding into a game can completely ruin it into the ground, don't ever forget that.

[HalusW]

Old thread is old.

[dopebeats]

the people that want numbers would be better off moving to vegas and becoming bookies. at least then you could make money doing what you love: numbers crunching. Or better yet, become CPA's.

 

This is going to lead to a really lame nerf/buff or two in the future. Have fun with your class hate when you find problems in the numbers that X player class isn't carrying the same weight as Player class Y. I could care less about people using this as a metric for measuring whether or not bobby or susan are geared properly, i care about it for when people start noticing a 10 DPS difference for a class in a Raid and then that class becomes obsolete and no one will take theat class in raids anymore.

 

Whatever happened o just playing for fun? This game is the farthest thing from being a challenge ever. It's all story and they do a great job of it. Whatevs, to each his own. Way to suck all the joy and immersion out of a game.

 

Sounds like a game design issue to me. To some people that is playing for fun. Lets face it combat logs have been a standard since MMOs came out. This game just isn't complete. Looks like they were quick to try to cash in on that Star Wars branding and forgot the most important part about a game the GAMEPLAY.

Edited January 23, 2012 by dopebeats

[Skyggepikken]

I can't believe that there's so many butt hurt people who can't see past their own misery. If you honestly think that SWTOR is only for the story loving lore fanatic you're dumb as ****. If running around in RP gear cypering in the far corners of the galaxy is your thing, then that's cool, but that's not going to determine how I play the game.

 

Damage meters adds a whole new element of achieving new goals for your own performance, as well as for your ops group. It progresses a raid beyond comprehension and gives the elitist what he needs to be the best at his class. If you don't want to use damage meters, then it's don't, but don't be the reason why the rest of us can't have it.

[Moushen]

It seems that the "No combat logs/dps meters" supporters greatest arguement is that they don't want other people telling them how to spec/play and how they should enjoy the game. They seem to think people will tell them what to do "In their own best interest". Their solution is to tell us how to play the game and how we should enjoy it. And of course it is in "our own best interest". Classic.

 

How about you play the game the way you enjoy it and let us play the game the way we enjoy it? The type of personalities that enjoy the game one way or the other are not going to enjoy grouping/raiding together anyway.

 

The way I see it parsing keeps the game honest, It allows us to see if the mechanics are working the way they are discribed. Testing/debugging if you will.

 

If you feel we should not see the mechanics, do you have all the pop ups disabled? Do you examine abilities to see how much they do? Do you examine items to see if they are an upgrade? If so do you roll need?

[Rattius]

I might be a month late to this thread, but the thread itself was a month late...

 

From Force Junkies @ http://www.forcejunkies.com/2011/11/18/become-one-with-the-ui-part-1-tankdps/

 

"At this last Fansite Summit, Georg Zoeller address the combat log, stating that it isn’t in SWTOR currently, but that it’s very high priority, and there’s a chance that it may make it in for launch."

 

I've pasted this over and over these boards for the past two months, but it almost seemed as if people purposefully ignored it simply because they wanted to be upset, so I finally gave up.

 

Anyway, I'm glad people are finally... getting with the program.

 

[Behrit]

Because people don't like to be reminded that they're only succeeding on the hard work of others?

 

No, because not all of us can spend all of our free time tweaking our characters to get every inch of performance. You know darn right well that even a minimal sub-par metric can keep you from participating in an event. I still want to interact with this game, and have fun. Don't be d-bags about it and we will all be good. But, you know that won't happen. You know it. People will use this tool to exclude others. I want to run raids and dungeons, and the fact of the matter is that you don't have to have an optimum team to complete them. You just want that, and exclude others from the fun.

 

That' why.

[Vyradder]

What bothers me about meters is they lead toward cookie cutter specs.

[Moushen]

I can only comment on Bounty Hunters, but can you say that people arent running cookie cutter specs now? The rotations are pretty cookie cutter too. I enjoy the game, but honestly it is a little shallow for anything but a few simple specs.