Do something about the operative healers NOW

[Haystak]

Scamper: Use a snare, i know of no classes that don't have access to one, the roll blows if you are slowed. Use your damn snares. And use snares.....oooh oooh, use roots too, if you dont have one, use a snare.

 

save stuns and burst abilities till the end, stun, and finish off.

 

 

Off-topic:

Also.....operatives dps is OP now? Someone please tell me what Im doing wrong, videos....something.

[bsbrad]

Operatives are NOT immortal.

 

It only takes 7 or 8 players focusing a guarded cross healing operative to kill one.

 

Who needs to play objectives? L2P whiners. The game is about focusing down one ridiculously overpowered healing class, not about guarding objectives or running the ball.

 

This, plus while your trying to stun them and focus them down watch their team cap your objectives, By the time you get around to the objectives of the WZ the operative is back.

 

I think a simple 5s CD on scamper and a marginal resource management tweak will.balance the class without decimating the PVE operations.

 

It is always fun to go against an Operative, especially one that has multiple mezzes, stealth, stun, drop out of combat, nice defensive cooldowns and the better ones are usually specced in Cybertech for grenades so good luck, if you surround them one grenade to knock you all down and scamper away.

[MotorCityMan]

An op/scoundrel healer will go down pretty fast to 2 dps alternating CCS and interrupts if they are solo. It is when there is a tank guard and a side healer that they seem unkillable and OP. Because then it takes 3 dps or more to focus them down and groups that aren't very coordinated without voice chat have a very difficult time focusing that much dps and CCS and interrupts. But any class would seem OP with a pocket healer and guarded by a tank. If all dps mercs had their own pocket healers and were guarded by tanks everyone would be spamming the forums complaining how OP and unkilliable mercs were.

Healing was not a factor in this game for a long time. Spam dps could overpower even multiple heals. Now that healers have become players again, dps are wondering why they aren't still the only class that matters in the game. They want nerfs, Heals nerfed, Tank guard nerfed, taunts nerfed, scamper nerfed, CCs nerfed, bubbles nerfed, anything not dps nerfed. According to healers, everyone not dieing in a warzone is a success. But that is a dps's worst nightmare. There job is to make everyone die. Such a conflict of interests, eh?

Edited June 26, 2013 by MotorCityMan

[Boch]

An op/scoundrel healer will go down pretty fast to 2 dps alternating CCS and interrupts if they are solo. It is when there is a tank guard and a side healer that they seem unkillable and OP. Because then it takes 3 dps or more to focus them down and groups that aren't very coordinated without voice chat have a very difficult time focusing that much dps and CCS and interrupts. But any class would seem OP with a pocket healer and guarded by a tank. If all dps mercs had their own pocket healers and were guarded by tanks everyone would be spamming the forums complaining how OP and unkilliable mercs were.

Healing was not a factor in this game for a long time. Spam dps could overpower even multiple heals. Now that healers have become players again, dps are wondering why they aren't still the only class that matters in the game. They want nerfs, Heals nerfed, Tank guard nerfed, taunts nerfed, scamper nerfed, CCs nerfed, bubbles nerfed, anything not dps nerfed. According to healers, everyone not dieing in a warzone is a success. But that is a dps's worst nightmare. There job is to make everyone die. Such a conflict of interests, eh?

 

Healings fine? How many 45 min matches have you been apart of where no on dies. They maybe intense at first but its getting real old and boring.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Boch

[Spacemanbobr]

Definitely something needs to happen, just because when you compare them to Commando/Merc, Sage/Sorc healers, Op/Scoundrels have, way, waaaay better survivability. A good one can survive 2 good DPSers beating on it for a pretty long time without support; with support and other heals you need 3-4 people focusing it down at the same time. Without support, a Commando simply can't survive 2 DPSers focusing on him if he wants to heal. Even with protection, 3 DPSers will easily kill him. The same pretty much goes for Sorcs/Sages.

 

Even in sheer magnitude of heals, Scoundrels/OPs are much, much better. I have never seen or put out myself over 800k healing. I've seen Sages do it and even get close to 1 mil. Operatives/Scoundrels? I've seen plenty of million+, up to 1.4 million on a really long, 15 minute rounds each of Voidstar. It's simply because of all of their instant healing skills and the fact that they can pretty much spam them since their resource management is crazy.

 

I think all that needs to be done to them is scamper should have a decent, 5-8s CD and their resource management needs to be nerfed (Commando healers used to have much better than what they have now until people cried OP, now it's kinda ridiculous if you wana keep people up who are getting focused without completely ruining your ammo management). Nothing that will break the class, just take them down a slight notch from where they are now.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Spacemanbobr

[NoTomorrow]

Right now, it takes more mental effort to defend operative healing from nerfs then to survive focus fire in PvP as one.

 

Devs didn't learn from SWTOR 1.1. The 1.2 healing nerfs will have to happen again.

Edited June 26, 2013 by NoTomorrow

[Brunner_Venda]

Sorry, it only takes one good DPS to take out a commando healer if they aren't guarded - and they usually aren't.. I can do it with a pyrotech PT FFS.

 

Now compare that to operative healers....

 

 

Right now, it takes more mental effort to defend operative healing from nerfs then to survive focus fire in PvP as one.

 

LOL! They needn't expend that much effort. The devs play the class, so it will be forever safe. No dev is going to take a pee in their beloved playground and make the game better for everyone.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Brunner_Venda

[Boch]

Right now, it takes more mental effort to defend operative healing from nerfs then to survive focus fire in PvP as one.

 

L2P...

 

And update your guide already.

[MotorCityMan]

Right now, it takes more mental effort to defend operative healing from nerfs then to survive focus fire in PvP as one.

 

Devs didn't learn from SWTOR 1.1. The 1.2 healing nerfs will have to happen again.

 

Right about the time a million subs left, if I recall.

[MotorCityMan]

LOL! They needn't expend that much effort. The devs play the class, so it will be forever safe. No dev is going to take a pee in their beloved playground and make the game better for everyone.

 

That time your car wouldn't start? .. It was the devs. That girl that wouldn't go out with you again? ... Because she was going with a dev.... The person that told on you to your parents that weekend? .You guessed it... was a dev.

[Cretinus]

This is so ridiculous! Just played a couple of WZs and the plot is always the same. Whenever a team has a couple of op/sc heal freaks more, this team will win the WZ with little effort.

The freaks are able to stop a complete team from playing. You don't kill anybody, you have to focus 1 healer with 5-6 players and this means that you're not following the WZs objectives. I never saw such an aberration of a class like this in an MMO before.

[MotorCityMan]

Healings fine? How many 45 min matches have you been apart of where no on dies. They maybe intense at first but its getting real old and boring.

 

Right, lots of competitive teams consist of 3 healers, at least 1 tank, and 4 dps. 4 offensive players, 4 defensive players. Sounds like the making of a stand off to me.

So we could nerf healing 20%, and then what? Teams could add another healer? No one dies. And again, and again. The nerf would have to be so sever as to make healers insignificant again.

I think a more "out the box" solution is warzone design. Shortening node timers for example would go a long, long way to minimizing the effectiveness of heal guard teams. Add more nodes. Eliminate the side speeders in civil war.

(Remember in WoW, instead of nerfing the healers, they added a progressive debuff to flag carriers to resolve stalemates).

 

Healers need to be grouped to be effective. The more they are grouped the more people they can heal. So a healer is most effective in a warzone like Voidstar, because everyone is bunched and there is only 2 nodes and they are close together. And that coincidently is the one everyone thinks of when they talk about a stalemate because that is where it occurs the most. When there is more objectives in a warzone, healing because less effective. Example; Is it worth having a healer accompany a single dps or is 2 dps better to take a node? Or send a single healer to guard or take a node or a single dps?

 

Healing probably will get nerfed, because of the xbox pve first person easymode shooter mentality of so many dps players. They demand that they be able to Pew Pew and stuff dies quickly or else they think the game is broke and it's not pvp. Even though in competitive pvp, stuff doesn't die as much as they think;

(Link to the Battle-net 2012 final. Spoiler... No one died,

 

But I would like to see them find and apply any warzone design solutions first, if possible.

Edited June 26, 2013 by MotorCityMan

[Boch]

Right, lots of competitive teams consist of 3 healers, at least 1 tank, and 4 dps. 4 offensive players, 4 defensive players. Sounds like the making of a stand off to me.

So we could nerf healing 20%, and then what? Teams could add another healer? No one dies. And again, and again. The nerf would have to be so sever as to make healers insignificant again.

I think a more "out the box" solution is warzone design. Shortening node timers for example would go a long, long way to minimizing the effectiveness of heal guard teams. Add more nodes. Eliminate the side speeders in civil war.

(Remember in WoW, instead of nerfing the healers, they added a progressive debuff to flag carriers to resolve stalemates).

 

Healers need to be grouped to be effective. The more they are grouped the more people they can heal. So a healer is most effective in a warzone like Voidstar, because everyone is bunched and there is only 2 nodes and they are close together. And that coincidently is the one everyone thinks of when they talk about a stalemate because that is where it occurs the most. When there is more objectives in a warzone, healing because less effective. Example; Is it worth having a healer accompany a single dps or is 2 dps better to take a node? Or send a single healer to guard or take a node or a single dps?

Remember in swtor pre 2.0 when all 3 healing classes were closer together(minus bubble stun crap), having healers and tanks was still a must, but stuff died and matches were more dynamic?

[MotorCityMan]

Remember in swtor pre 2.0 when all 3 healing classes were closer together(minus bubble stun crap), having healers and tanks was still a must, but stuff died and matches were more dynamic?

Not saying you are wrong. I am not going to draw the line and say healing cannot be nerfed under any circumstance. But I would like to see warzone design changes, other class balance issues addressed as well, and not hang "nerf heals" out there as the only possibility for improvement.

Part of it is how you define the problem. Is it that players don't die enough (no one wants to), or that objectives can't be realized? If the latter, you can make objectives easier or different to achieve. Shorter node timers. What about a node only stays captured for 1 min and has to be recaptured every 1 or 2 mins to stay in a team's possesion? That, coupled with a shorter capture time would really liven things up and make death match heal teams far less effective. Op/scoundrals might go back to being Concealment/dirty fighting eh? I am just throwing stuff out there, but I think some really good minds could have a brainstorming session and really do some fun stuff and relieve some of the frustration players are directing at "nerf heals".

Edited June 26, 2013 by MotorCityMan

[Boch]

Not saying you are wrong. I am not going to draw the line and say healing cannot be nerfed under any circumstance. But I would like to see warzone design changes, other class balance issues addressed as well, and not hang "nerf heals" out there as the only possibility for improvement.

 

Healing needs to get nerfed, but individual survival needs to increase. TTK without heals is too short, but heals are to powerful were no one dies. BW went to 55 to quick and should of just given us more content and less bugs.

[yourlordmoses]

Play the class before you QQ about it.

 

Right on

[Baalzamon]

Operative healers are atm the most OP hehe class there is.

[kweassa]

Its not the class that is OP, but rather the people fighting against it being UP.

[OldSpiceSwag]

op healers are 100% op. almost all of their heals are instant, stack, and their energy management is a joke. increase the energy cost of slow release medpac and reduce the healing done by emp, or something. and while your at it tone down all the heals to just a little above merc heals as well as smash so smash/smash/sniper/sniper isnt the only viable copm

[gocard]

I kindof agree with OP. Operative healers are the most powerful PvP class in the game. They have the easiest resource management out of all the healers, they can heal on the move with ease, they can scamper, and they can stealth. Put a 5 second CD on scamper and increase the difficulty of resource management and its fixed. But for the most part PvP is really balanced. Healing is a little over the top and one of the vanguard/powertech specs need a DPS buff.

 

Absolutely agree with this assessment.

 

And as a side note, just on the issue of scamper, most of the counter arguments to the complaints about scamper is that it's so resource intensive, that nobody does it repeatedly. But if you take a look at this video:

, this operative essentially rolls from one endzone, to the ball, to the other endzone. Yes, it's stupid that no one slows him down, but the idea that after a few scampers, you don't have much energy left is utterly bogus, and I think this video is a prime example of that. It definitely needs a CD and/or increased resource cost.

 

Healing needs to get nerfed, but individual survival needs to increase. TTK without heals is too short, but heals are to powerful were no one dies. BW went to 55 to quick and should of just given us more content and less bugs.

 

I wrote something nearly identical in another forum thread. Absolutely agree. Post 2.0, the TTK bell curve flattened, and you have way more cases of TTK being way too short or way too long, and it's completely dependent on the number of healers you have. Healing became way too important post 2.0.

[MocniSkopac]

No......

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6442252#post6442252

[TheCourier-]

Operative is fine. Melee DPS got massively nerfed by 2.0, and ranged DPS are awful as medic killers.

[Oddy_T]

I think a more "out the box" solution is warzone design. Shortening node timers for example would go a long, long way to minimizing the effectiveness of heal guard teams. Add more nodes. Eliminate the side speeders in civil war.

 

So to stop operatives being overpowered compared to other healers they should change the WZ design to favor stealth capping, ae cc capping and who moves fastest back to the side nodes?

Sounds like it would really work.....

[Cretinus]

Try the following thought experiment:

 

Make a team of 3. It consists of 2 DPS (or 1 tank + 1 DPS) and 1 sc/op healer. Call it team A.

 

Now make a 100% clone of this team. Exactly the same players playing the same toons. Now replace the sc/op healer by an equally geared sorc healer. Call it team B.

 

Let team A play a squirmish against team B. Who wins?

 

Try the same with a 4, 5, 6, 7 or 8 people team. You can also take two healers instead of 1 for bigger teams, team A then has two op/sc healers and team B has 2 sorc.

Who wins?

 

Thank you.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Cretinus

[madtycoon]

Do they cast much at 55? I don't have a character there yet. You used to be able to just lock them down by interrupting their 2 second cast and then they were reliant on rng procs or overextending to shiv or whatever. I don't know if 2.0 changed that?

 

The only thing that makes them harder to lock down than other healers on my guardian tank (in the lower levels) is cover, because you can't leap them to stop casts or follow with cc. Aside from that they seem to be really easy to just cc/interrupt chain. I mean they don't have an aura mastery cooldown like the other healers nor a second break like sages. I don't know, its low levels so I can't really tell from that.