Yoshi-P talks swtor and why Final Fantasy XIV will be sub only.

[DorkTrooper]

I hope they do well with the sub-only model. I'd hate to see it completely replaced by F2P/B2P only.

 

Too bad I'm not at all interested in the Final Fantasy universe.

[SkunkWerks]

http://venturebeat.com/2013/06/17/final-fantasy-online-director-defends-monthly-subscriptions-in-the-golden-age-of-free-to-play-exclusive/

 

Great article there on why sub only mmos are better then free to play games.

 

Except that, yanno, one has to accept the logic that Square has, can or will make a game that is even passing "decent" in the past ten years in order to think of this as a "good" article.

 

It might pass for "comedy" though.

[lorelthesecond]

Except that, yanno, one has to accept the logic that Square has, can or will make a game that is even passing "decent" in the past ten years in order to think of this as a "good" article.

 

It might pass for "comedy" though.

 

Yeah right as if they haven't

 

In fact I can name a amazing game they have made in the past ten years off the top of my head right now. The World Ends with You. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_Ends_with_You#Reception

[SkunkWerks]

Yeah right as if they haven't

 

They haven't. They aren't. They won't. It'd be nice to believe that- somewhere, deep down, they're still capable of it, but frankly I've lost any hope of that some time ago.

 

Considering that, this did give me a giggle. Particularly at a time when the majority of MMO business models are free to Play precisely because this is how you survive in the market at the moment and even the ostensibly "good" MMOs have some sort of a F2P option. Honestly the reasoning behind the asence or presence of this option being an indication of "quality" is laughable to begin with- even without attempting to hold Square up as the poster child for good game design.

 

At least for the moment and the foreseeable future, the Full-Subscription Only model is antiquated and not terribly valid. Unsurprisingly, in an economy where folks' "entertainment funds" are spent with more scrutiny, people what to try before they buy. In an MMO- or anything with that sort of a time commitment- it means playing for a lot longer than thirty days.

[lorelthesecond]

They haven't. They aren't. They won't. It'd be nice to believe that- somewhere, deep down, they're still capable of it, but frankly I've lost any hope of that some time ago.

 

Considering that, this did give me a giggle. Particularly at a time when the majority of MMO business models are free to Play precisely because this is how you survive in the market at the moment and even the ostensibly "good" MMOs have some sort of a F2P option. Honestly the reasoning behind the asence or presence of this option being an indication of "quality" is laughable to begin with- even without attempting to hold Square up as the poster child for good game design.

 

At least for the moment and the foreseeable future, the Full-Subscription Only model is antiquated and not terribly valid. Unsurprisingly, in an economy where folks' "entertainment funds" are spent with more scrutiny, people what to try before they buy. In an MMO- or anything with that sort of a time commitment- it means playing for a lot longer than thirty days.

 

I like how you ignore the fact I linked a game they have made in the past ten years that is great and disproves what you are saying...

[SkunkWerks]

I like

 

You do.

[Aaramis]

I think, ultimately, those who played and enjoyed FFXI will be perhaps be tempted by FFXIV, especially with this reboot and a better visual + combat experience.

 

Those who never played FFXI (or any of the Final Fantasy series), or who played FFXI and didn't like it, will most likely pass on this.

 

I'm guessing most of the posters here will fall under that second category.

[lorelthesecond]

You do.

 

If you are trying to say I am the only one that likes the game yeah no..

 

 

 

"The World Ends with You received positive reviews and has been commercially successful. Game Informer named the game its Handheld Game of the Month award for May 2008. IGN gave The World Ends with You its Editors' Choice Award, and named it the DS Game of the Month for April.[72] In Japan, the game premiered as the second-best selling DS title during the week of July 27, 2007.[73] Nearly 193,000 units were sold in Japan by the end of 2007.[74] The World Ends with You sold 43,000 copies during April 2008 in North America.[75] The first shipment of the game sold out mid-May[76] and a second shipment was made in mid-June 2008.[77] The game was the top-selling DS title the week of its release[78] and again two weeks later.[79] As of September 30, 2008, The World Ends With You has sold approximately 140,000 copies in North America and 20,000 copies in Europe.[80]

 

Critics praised the departure from other popular titles such as Square Enix's Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts series.[5][72] Both the graphical presentation and the soundtrack were very well received.[5][21][69] Reviews also commented that, initially, the character designs were too similar to previous Square Enix titles and may be off-putting to some[22][69] though in the Shibuya setting they were "absolutely in their element."[22] Some reviewers also complained that the Stride Cross Battle System was too complex for new players;[22] Eurogamer's review felt the "sink or swim" reliance on learning the complex battle system was a significant stumbling block for the game.[21] GamePro noted that the stylus input was imprecise, often mistaking movement and attack actions.[81] On the other hand, the system was praised for its approach, and for the ability to alter the difficulty of the system within the game.[22][69] 1UP.com's review summarized that the game is much more than the sum of its parts: "By all rights, The World Ends With You should be an annoying disaster, a bundle of tired gimmicks and trite clichés. Yet somehow all the things that should be unbearable fall into place and create a game that's far more unique, interesting, and addictive than it has any right to be."[22]

 

The World Ends with You won several awards from IGN.com, including best Nintendo DS role-playing game,[82] best story for a Nintendo DS game,[83] best new IP for the DS,[84] as the best Nintendo DS game of the year.[85] It was also nominated for other awards, including best original score for a Nintendo DS game[86] and best artistic design for a Nintendo DS game.[87] It was ranked as the tenth best game of the 2000s released on a Nintendo system by Nintendo Power.[88]

 

The World Ends with You -Solo Remix- received a score of 9.5 and an Editor's Choice from IGN, who praised the port and its additions, although criticized its price point and lack of universal compatibility (the iPhone/iPod Touch and iPad versions of the game must be purchased separately.)[89] Kotaku also criticized the high price and lack of universal compatibility as 'indefensible', though it praised the port for its controls, saying "in many ways, it feels more suited to (the iPad) than it ever did on the DS."

[lorelthesecond]

Looks like this game is going to be a huge hit. They have over 1 million players in the closed beta so far. When open beta starts in a few weeks they will have even more.

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/446/view/news/read/27965/Final-Fantasy-XIV-A-Realm-Reborn-Over-a-Million-Register-for-Beta.html

[SithKoriandr]

Looks like this game is going to be a huge hit. They have over 1 million players in the closed beta so far. When open beta starts in a few weeks they will have even more.

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/446/view/news/read/27965/Final-Fantasy-XIV-A-Realm-Reborn-Over-a-Million-Register-for-Beta.html

 

While I think the game will be a hit...Final Fantasy, Healer-Damage-Tank setup, pretty aesthetics...I wouldn't go by those numbers.

 

CBTs and OBTs allow people to play for free. Then it releases and people go "Well, I'm done" or even "Eh, I already played it in beta"

[Grayseven]

The subscription only model works, but only...and I mean ONLY...if the game you are playing is worth the price of the subscription.

 

You can not release a bug filled, no content, no challenge MMO and expect people to pay for it monthly. You can not have poor customer service, unsupported portions of your (bug filled) game and believe people are going to stick around just because you have a gimmick that (sort of) sets you apart from other MMO's.

 

Free to Play is always a last ditch effort to salvage a disaster. It is not "the new paradigm of MMO's"...it is an admission of failure. It is a game company saying "our MMO can not stand on its own merits".

 

F2P also has a tendency to alienate the player base willing to subscribe...even with all of the problems with a game...as focus shifts from content to fluff. It doesn't take a detective to see the effort put into CM art (apart from the re-skins) is higher than that put into end-game achievable gear. This increases the perception of a "money grab" and leads to anger from the portion of the player base that provides a predictable cash flow.

 

Blizzard seemed to thread the line between subscription only and F2P by only having F2P for a set number of levels and then requiring a subscription and limiting their cash store to a very limited range of items (mainly mounts and pets). It has been a while since I've played WoW so I have no idea if that has changed but I can say the biggest reason for sub losses over Blizzard way is that it simply hasn't put out enough "new and interesting" to keep its subs at the high of 12 million that it once was.

 

If the game has enough challenge to hold the attention of its player base, and if the game dev's work diligently to quickly squash bugs (instead of letting them stick around for 2 years AND not supporting players affected by them) and if they make the effort to keep the game fresh instead of sitting back and resting on their laurels...a sub only model will work. MMO players today expect certain things and if those things aren't available in one game they will move on to the next. The key to a new MMO is to learn from the mistakes of other games instead of constantly repeating them.

[SkunkWerks]

If you are trying to say

 

I haven't tried to say anything.

Edited July 2, 2013 by SkunkWerks

[Amera]

Everyone railing about "only bad games can't succeed on a sub model" really have no understanding of the realities of the MMO market. Game subs cost $15 in the 1990s twenty years ago, but AAA games themselves cost dramatically more to make and operate. There are obviously more potential consumers in the market, but there are also many more competing games.

 

There's really no reason for a company to settle for making a profit at $15 a month by struggling to get (and maintain) millions of subs when they are much better off monetizing a smaller fan base via a cash shop. SWTOR and other games are proving this is a much more viable model. I honestly think ESO should probably do the same thing - milk the people who love your IP for more than $15/month rather than casting such a wide net your game looses focus and then falls on its face.

[LordArtemis]

The market is much more fickle and demanding then they used to be. It is very difficult in the modern market to release a sub only game and meet expectations.

 

That said, I wish them all the success in the world.

[Andryah]

The market is much more fickle and demanding then they used to be. It is very difficult in the modern market to release a sub only game and meet expectations.

 

That said, I wish them all the success in the world.

 

I'll credit them courage for trying.. but they are going to hit the wall hard on this.

 

But hey... for them it's an honor thing. They will shift the business model, or die holding out. Either way... you won't see a sustained subscriber only model from them on this. No game is good enough any more to launch as sub only. They will have a conversion plan ready to go after 3 months and the love affair is over and the locusts are moving on.

 

Besides... it's going live with a console option, right? What real MMO exists/does_well on a console (free or sub)? Exactly.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Andryah

[SithKoriandr]

I think people are missing how he talks about sub models working for publishers that do it themselves and not through others.

[Draekos]

Will be fun to see about 9 months after they re-launch to see if this holds true.

[lorelthesecond]

I'll credit them courage for trying.. but they are going to hit the wall hard on this.

 

But hey... for them it's an honor thing. They will shift the business model, or die holding out. Either way... you won't see a sustained subscriber only model from them on this. No game is good enough any more to launch as sub only. They will have a conversion plan ready to go after 3 months and the love affair is over and the locusts are moving on.

 

Besides... it's going live with a console option, right? What real MMO exists/does_well on a console (free or sub)? Exactly.

 

Yeah sorry but your wrong that isn't going to happen.

 

As for a MMO that's available for a console as well as pc and has been successful how about the last online game they made Final Fantasy XI. Final Fantasy XI has been going for over 11 years and it is still sub only. Not only that its the most profitable title in the Final Fantasy series.

 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/25/final-fantasy-xi-the-most-profitable-in-the-franchise/

Edited July 2, 2013 by lorelthesecond

[annabethchase]

If FFXI can survive 11 years with 99.99% forced grouping of 6 just to level up for months to years, then I think this can work too. Plus, the US is their secondary market with Japan being their primary aim.

[Andryah]

Plus, the US is their secondary market with Japan being their primary aim.

 

This is the crust of the biscuit right there. Japan is their market. They will do what they think will work in Japan.

 

Thing is... Asia MMO player base =/= Western player base. When the western side of the market implodes over a forced subscription... they will just shutter it I think and focus on their core market.

[Andryah]

Yeah sorry but your wrong that isn't going to happen.

 

As for a MMO that's available for a console as well as pc and has been successful how about the last online game they made Final Fantasy XI. Final Fantasy XI has been going for over 11 years and it is still sub only. Not only that its the most profitable title in the Final Fantasy series.

 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/25/final-fantasy-xi-the-most-profitable-in-the-franchise/

 

By all means... dig in heels. But FFXI =/= FFXIV

 

FFXIV which has already failed so bad once they had to shoot it in the head and redo it. Meanwhile.. the western MMO modern business model lapped them and went Freemium.

 

FFXI is like WoW... old with installed base it can suckle on. If it launched today.. it would be dead in 4 months.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Andryah

[Knockerz]

This is the crust of the biscuit right there. Japan is their market. They will do what they think will work in Japan.

 

Thing is... Asia MMO player base =/= Western player base. When the western side of the market implodes over a forced subscription... they will just shutter it I think and focus on their core market.

 

Japanese and western market are very different. Sony won't be able to keep both sides content. Any one who has played any of the Japanese mmorpg will tell you this. Western players always complain about the amount of skimpy outfits in any asian mmorpg, I doubt it be any more different this time. Asian or japanese mmorpg are more grindy. It's also very group oriented. Point being is japanese culture is different from the usa or western culture and their game will be design around Japanese culture not western, which is why I don't think the new final fantasy game will appeal to the general western mmorpg market.

 

If their western version fails Sony will pull the plug in the same manner that BW pulled the plug on the APAC servers. It's too expensive to maintain an English version if it's not very profitable. If the relationship with Sony of North America and Sony of Japan mirrors Sega, then you can count on them dumping their North American games if they aren't a success. Just getting by is unacceptable unless it's their domestic market.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Knockerz

[Knockerz]

Looks like this game is going to be a huge hit. They have over 1 million players in the closed beta so far. When open beta starts in a few weeks they will have even more.

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/446/view/news/read/27965/Final-Fantasy-XIV-A-Realm-Reborn-Over-a-Million-Register-for-Beta.html

 

You could have said the same thing about BW and swtor or any mmorpg really. It's like the new ice cream flavor every one wants to try it, then every one goes back to what they like best after realizing it's not their favorite flavor. Your only stirring up the hype.

 

The way you presenting this new upcoming mmorpg is if the game has already proven it's self. Until the game goes live and has not gone into bleeding subcribers like every mmorpg launched recently, then we can start look at this game as a huge hit. I'm not going to pay full retail price for some thing that hasn't been proven. Swtor is the last mmorpg I will every buy at full retail price. If current trends continue, this new final fantasy will go f2p and I won't even have to pay for the retail box, which is why sony is hyping their product. Every mmorpg that sells a box at retail has done this hyping, but has always failed. Thus, the odds are not in sony favor.

[SithKoriandr]

Japanese and western market are very different. Sony won't be able to keep both sides content. Any one who has played any of the Japanese mmorpg will tell you this. Western players always complain about the amount of skimpy outfits in any asian mmorpg, I doubt it be any more different this time. Asian or japanese mmorpg are more grindy. It's also very group oriented. Point being is japanese culture is different from the usa or western culture and their game will be design around Japanese culture not western, which is why I don't think the new final fantasy game will appeal to the general western mmorpg market.

 

If their western version fails Sony will pull the plug in the same manner that BW pulled the plug on the APAC servers. It's too expensive to maintain an English version if it's not very profitable. If the relationship with Sony of North America and Sony of Japan mirrors Sega, then you can count on them dumping their North American games if they aren't a success. Just getting by is unacceptable unless it's their domestic market.

 

I wouldn't say Western players always complain about skimpy outfits. I'd say it's a vocal minority that always complains about skimpy outfits.

 

TOR shows just this. In game...slave bikinis EVERYWHERE! Then some poster comes on the forums and says BW makes everything skimpy, when it's 3-6 outfits out of 100+

 

This doesn't even include the fact that with all those complaints about "Wouldn't wear a bikini into battle" what do we see requested? MINI SKIRTS!

 

It's not the look of scantily clad armor users (and FF is not on TERA's level of skimpy...even though people like to forget TERA has non skimpy options ) that will decide FF's NA fate, but whether there's a player-base that likes the play-style of FF.

 

And I know quite a few NA players who enjoy/enjoyed FF: XI and we often hear people say "I want my MMO to have the Healer/Damage/Tank setup" and yet here in your post we see "People don't want to team." when that's exactly what the Heal/DPS/Tank setup requires

 

Also, all MMOs are grind. The catch is, will FF's grind feel like fun to people or not.

[Callaron]

I'll be very impressed if they manage to survive their first year without having to resort to F2P in today's market.

SWTOR, TERA and TSW all tried and were eventually forced to go with the flow and convert to F2P after all.

SWTOR's conversion has been a rocky road, but I'd say the game is better than ever - as for not that many people playing it... I haven't had any trouble finding groups, heck even the queue times for a dps seem to have shortened lately.