Glower Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 These cubes ARE aesthetic only. They're not required for advancement, nor do they offer any benefit to your character. 70-80% of this game is aesthetic only. Just sayin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthehoyden Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 I don't particularly like it either. Mostly because it's useless fluff in my opinion. But the argument you're making about Bioware promising all story content for free is inaccurate. That's the quote from one of the original dev blogs regarding the F2P transition. They never promised that every story-related update going forward would be free. If they had, they couldn't even charge for expansion. They said existing, classic story content from 1.0 would be free, and they even hedged that by saying "the vast majority." There are plenty of arguments for why this isn't a good addition to cartel packs, but "bioware said all story content ever made would be free" isn't one of them. And as far as the argument about the CM featuring only aesthetic items? They also said 'mostly,' and it has a good deal of things already that fall outside that definition. Valor boosts especially. I personally think a 'quest' that gives a short cutscene you can find on Youtube and a handful of rewards that have been coming out of packs for months now already is very, very much 'cosmetic.' You don't have to like it, but labeling them liars over it is just a case of imposing your own definitions over their own. I see what you're saying, but they've repeatedly said CM was for vanity and convience items. This crosses a line for me. A big one. You don't have to agree, but that's where I stand on it. And to me, the fact that they're now adding story items to the CM shows them to be misleading and false in what they've said. Perhaps they'll explain this and clear things up, maybe they won't, but things like this definitely inform my opinion of their trustworthiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 I see what you're saying, but they've repeatedly said CM was for vanity and convience items. This crosses a line for me. A big one. You don't have to agree, but that's where I stand on it. And to me, the fact that they're now adding story items to the CM shows them to be misleading and false in what they've said. Perhaps they'll explain this and clear things up, maybe they won't, but things like this definitely inform my opinion of their trustworthiness. You're misrepresenting what they said. What they actually said is that CM items wouldn't be pay to win, meaning they wouldn't make your character more powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuixupu Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 You're misrepresenting what they said. What they actually said is that CM items wouldn't be pay to win, meaning they wouldn't make your character more powerful. This is true, you can go back and read the various developer contents on the subject and they all say specifically that they want to avoid the CM being "pay to win" and nothing ever saying they would never put story content on it. You can still be angry about this decision for many reasons, but they aren't going back on anything they said. The ship parts and color crystals are more of a stretch than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoboWithAStick Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 YAY another thing in the game that subs have to pay money to take part in. Good job BW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthehoyden Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 This is true, you can go back and read the various developer contents on the subject and they all say specifically that they want to avoid the CM being "pay to win" and nothing ever saying they would never put story content on it. You can still be angry about this decision for many reasons, but they aren't going back on anything they said. The ship parts and color crystals are more of a stretch than this. Well then put me down as angry for many reasons. They gave the strong impression that the CM was just for vanity and convenience. As I said, this move on their part tells me they're untrustworthy when it comes to being clear about their intentions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyfy Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 I like the Cartel Market, in general, but there is a distinct difference to me between vanity items and convience unlocks and putting honest to goodness quests and story on the CM. That's an awful precedent and one that I'm really really not happy about. To be quite frank, it's bullsh*t. While I understand where you are coming from all it really is besides a little back story is the ability to choose after the holo recording 1 of 3 items. An XP boost, a Credit Boom, and the third IIRC is a social boost or mission boost but mostly inconsequential. Basically all it is is a chance to reroll that used slot from your cartel pack that you get to choose instead of leaving it up to RNG. Dulfy has a holo recording up on her page for the pack items and you can see what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anysao Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 I actually think it's more likely they put it in the cartel market because The Shroud worked for the Hutt Cartel (temporarily). Plus, there's always credits and GTN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_Bluesky Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 (edited) "Little back story" is just that little too much for CM to have it. It shouldn't be there in the first place. Why not just talk to CM rep vendor on the fleet to get stuff from cube? Like I said before - we need to be vocal before this kind of things escalate like it did with random packs for everything. Edited June 13, 2013 by Mike_Bluesky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuixupu Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 I remember when they came out with the contraband reputation thing, I completely flipped my lid. I was incensed, I thought they crossed a big line. Looking back at that now, I feel kind of silly about that, as it was really completely inconsequential, it didn't affect my game or really keep me from getting things I wanted, nor did it stop a whole lot of other reputation items in game to stop coming. I was mad just for the sake of getting mad. I don't think I was wrong to express my opinion about it, and maybe the feedback made an impact in some way, but we should look back at this after some time has passed and see if it really was as bad as some feel it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_Bluesky Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 You came to peace with that and this is what they wanted. Now if they make something even more pushing like quest line only for that Reputation faction (CM in that case or whatever they're calling it) or event, people will be "Hey, Reputation for CM was OK, so why not this?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 I don't see what the big deal is. IMHO these are aesthetic. They don't improve your gear or stats, they don't advance your story, they don't do anything. They are just a nice little toy basically. You can play with a ball toss or you can watch a video. You can buy them from Cartel, you can buy them from GTN or you can ignore them. You won't lose anything by not having them. You're subscription pays for access to the game, this isn't that. And try and remember EA is a business. If they can make money, obviously they will. I don't really see what's wrong with that, it's just capitalism. They aren't here to make our lives better. Your subscription pays for all the current content and hasn't increased since launch. They are really supposed to keep giving us loads of new stuff all the time with no charge? The "big deal" is that it is NOT cosmetic. It is Story and Quest which is outside the stated purview of the Cartel Market. It doesn't matter how short or insignificant it is, it is going against the very words of EA/BW concerning what the CM would be. And since I pay EVERY MONTH, I expect that I get something for my money EVERY MONTH. New stuff is what I pay for EVERY MONTH and I should not have to pay even more to get access to something that is not cosmetic. They can make money, but they also owe it to their customers to stand by their word, otherwise their customers will stop paying them. Stop making apologies for EA/BW for an obvious screw up on their part. If you want to start talking slippery slopes, how happy would you be if they made you pay extra for additional companion story scenes? After all, they don't add anything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuixupu Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 (edited) You came to peace with that and this is what they wanted. No, I came at peace with it because there was simply no reason to be upset about it. If I stayed mad, it wouldn't matter to them - I didn't start buying the packs. Whether I continue to pay a sub or not depends on whether I'm actually enjoying the game and finding it worthwhile, and so far, I am. If I couldn't say that, I'd unsub. Now if they make something even more pushing like quest line only for that Reputation faction (CM in that case or whatever they're calling it) or event, people will be "Hey, Reputation for CM was OK, so why not this?" Now this kids, is what you call a slippery slope. And since I pay EVERY MONTH, I expect that I get something for my money EVERY MONTH. New stuff is what I pay for EVERY MONTH and I should not have to pay even more to get access to something that is not cosmetic. I have yet to play a game that gives me new content of any significance every month. WoW sure doesn't. And while they've gotten better, I'll never forget those 9 months I spent with 0 updates before the release of MoP. If you want to start talking slippery slopes, how happy would you be if they made you pay extra for additional companion story scenes? After all, they don't add anything... That's a very interesting question. What if that was the ONLY possible way that we'd ever see more companion conversations? Do you think people would buy it? Companions stories certainly do add things, though - that's advancing your class story, essentially. Edited June 13, 2013 by chuixupu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 (edited) And since I pay EVERY MONTH, I expect that I get something for my money EVERY MONTH. New stuff is what I pay for EVERY MONTH and I should not have to pay even more to get access to something that is not cosmetic. I'd say there's your problem. You feel entitled to something no MMO gives you. You have grossly overestimated how much your $15 is worth. Besides, you don't have to pay. These cubes will be on the GTN, cheap. Edited June 13, 2013 by Caelrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damask_Rose Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 These cubes ARE aesthetic only. They're not required for advancement, nor do they offer any benefit to your character. Lol you could say that about any aspect of the game. New Op? Well if it has the same level drops as old Ops, then it's not required for advancement. New warzones? Ditto. What you are arguing is that they can charge for anything and everything in the cartel market as long as it doesn't include an exclusive new tier of gear. And content isn't aesthetics, you might need to brush up on your vocabulary if you think it is. You'd have a stronger argument that content is fluff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Story content you have to pay for. And posters in the SGR thread think I'm wrong about us having to pay for any possible future SGR companions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuixupu Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Lol you could say that about any aspect of the game. New Op? Well if it has the same level drops as old Ops, then it's not required for advancement. New warzones? Ditto. What you are arguing is that they can charge for anything and everything in the cartel market as long as it doesn't include an exclusive new tier of gear. But that is the definition that the developers decided on. The idea of story content on the CM really been brought up to the devs as far as I'm aware. But now I guess there is a reason to ask about it. I'll be at the Cantina event tomorrow, so if I get a chance I will. Story content you have to pay for. And posters in the SGR thread think I'm wrong about us having to pay for any possible future SGR companions. You still could be. There hasn't been any indication that they would do that. Full companion content honestly sounds too complicated of a thing to put on the CM. It'd make more sense to just have it be part of another digital expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenjs Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 I don't care if they are relevant or not - there was work put into this cutscenes and I really doubt that it was CM team work. We need to be really vocal about this - I feel like this is another test how far they can go with CM. So I'm telling you right now BW - you've already gone way too far. Don't push it. going to have to agree with this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyfy Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 "Little back story" is just that little too much for CM to have it. It shouldn't be there in the first place. Why not just talk to CM rep vendor on the fleet to get stuff from cube? Like I said before - we need to be vocal before this kind of things escalate like it did with random packs for everything. It's like personnel log entries. Not actual quest material is the point, and its just a trigger for the cube to allow you to pick 1 of 3 static rewards instead of relying on RNG for everything in the packs. It isn't any information that is pertinent to the actual quest line nor is it a lead in to bigger content. It was just a creative way to get to a static loot choice nothing more. Or to put it yet another way, like finding lore items in game. Before the achievement system it was nothing more than a way to give people a way to find a little more XP. They aren't tied to any actual quest and you aren't losing out on part of a quest if you don't get them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 You still could be. There hasn't been any indication that they would do that. Full companion content honestly sounds too complicated of a thing to put on the CM. It'd make more sense to just have it be part of another digital expansion. Yeah, but it's like you said, we paid for Makeb. And a SGR companion wouldn't do anything a companion we already have access to, can't do. So it's not p2w. And if it's part of an expansion, still paying for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Just remember, making cutscenes for a datacube is taking away from making cutscenes for additional companion storylines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeters Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 (edited) Tying in cutscenes to a quest giving item found in random item packs. So now the cartel market is selling cutscenes of all things. Incredible. Absolutely, intolerably incredible. This is pathetic. Edited June 13, 2013 by Bleeters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanerb Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 First they came for the .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 (edited) Lol you could say that about any aspect of the game. New Op? Well if it has the same level drops as old Ops, then it's not required for advancement. New warzones? Ditto. What you are arguing is that they can charge for anything and everything in the cartel market as long as it doesn't include an exclusive new tier of gear. And content isn't aesthetics, you might need to brush up on your vocabulary if you think it is. You'd have a stronger argument that content is fluff. New Ops don't have the same level drop as old ops. Tying in cutscenes to a quest giving item found in random item packs. So now the cartel market is selling cutscenes of all things. Incredible. Absolutely, intolerably incredible. This is pathetic. Overreact much? They made these cubes so common that starting tomorrow you'll see them all over the GTN for peanuts. Easy to buy. Everyone wins. My guess is 50-75k each. Almost nothing when you remember you can choose a reward for using it that'll give you 30-40k back. Edited June 13, 2013 by Caelrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuixupu Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Just remember, making cutscenes for a datacube is taking away from making cutscenes for additional companion storylines. No it's not, because the only VA is The Shroud, which isn't going to appear in your companion storyline, it doesn't even include your own character's voice, nor does it include diverging storylines. It's fast, cheap VA work that doesn't take the time and effort of developing a dialogue between your character and your companions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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