Ryvirath Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 (edited) You haven't experienced it, so you have no idea or basis for these comments. The guilds who have attempted it are top tier in the world. And simply put, the difference in percentages for various attempts are irrelevant. It is easy to calculate the DPS required to beat the enrage timer. As it stands right now, our assessment is based on what is MATHEMATICALLY POSSIBLE given the current gearing. Regards, KK Just thought I'd re post this gem so we can be on guard for this sort of ridiculous hypocrisy in the future. Beyond that, I really love to see content that evokes the 7:15 reaction in the Hoth folks' vid. When they got that final kill you can hear the ululations of triumph from all 8 of them. I guarantee you that was one of their most memorable moments in SWTOR. That's how content should be designed. Congrats and looking forward to seeing more guilds do the 'impossible.' Edited June 16, 2013 by Ryvirath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansalem Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 there is a quote that I use often during raiding that ends with people telling me to **** but Ill share it here anyways... There is no such thing as impossible, the word itself says, "I'm possible" --Audrey Hepburn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyntharion Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Just thought I'd re post this gem so we can be on guard for this sort of ridiculous hypocrisy in the future. Beyond that, I really love to see content that evokes the 7:15 reaction in the Hoth folks' vid. When they got that final kill you can hear the ululations of triumph from all 8 of them. I guarantee you that was one of their most memorable moments in SWTOR. That's how content should be designed. Congrats and looking forward to seeing more guilds do the 'impossible.' I woudl've screamed alot higher if it wasn't for the fact that I would've woken up my neighbours at 3 AM in the morning lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErosGyne Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Now that this boss is down, lets debate if this fight can be done with the "less" capable classes( i mean the class itself, not the skill of the player) Ex. commando healers or scoundrel dps, or other class that many think they are supar in relation to other classes in healing, dps or tanking. Because if this fight can only be done with certain classes, you guys think BW should "tuned" the fight so all classes can clear it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solar_Breeze Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Now that this boss is down, lets debate if this fight can be done with the "less" capable classes( i mean the class itself, not the skill of the player) Ex. commando healers or scoundrel dps, or other class that many think they are supar in relation to other classes in healing, dps or tanking. Because if this fight can only be done with certain classes, you guys think BW should "tuned" the fight so all classes can clear it? Our composition is posted a few pages back. Sin Tank, Jug Tank, Merc Heal, Sorc Heal, Jug dps (veng), merc dps, sniper, sniper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyntharion Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 (edited) Now that this boss is down, lets debate if this fight can be done with the "less" capable classes( i mean the class itself, not the skill of the player) Ex. commando healers or scoundrel dps, or other class that many think they are supar in relation to other classes in healing, dps or tanking. Because if this fight can only be done with certain classes, you guys think BW should "tuned" the fight so all classes can clear it? The fight is sadly tuned so ridiculously tight that some specs are just out of the question. Assassin dps? You have to be that 0.1% to even be considered. Merc/commando? Sure we even did it with Nim healer. He's the best Merc healer I've seen in this game by far. Juggernaut Rage/Vengeance is also 100% probable. Lace was Vengeance on our kill. He also went rage on earlier attempts a day ago when we wiped at 8%. Scoundrel dps? Dirty fighting/Lethality is 100% probable imo if you're good at it. The fight should be nerfed in terms of the enrage. Anything between 15 seconds to 1 minute. Not only to make it more available to others, but to release the pressure of the composition. Keep in mind that we wiped over 150 times in this encounter. It took alot of stubborness and dedication, showing you the lengths we had to go to get this fight down. Edit: I also want to mention that the whole group was in fact not BiS. Our Vengeance Jug had Dreadguard and EWH relics. I missed 2 Implants and 2 Enhancments. Our Other sniper missed an implant. Asa the sorc healer completly lacked any kind of dedicated Healing gear (Some enhancment swaps and 4p Dps set bonus lol). Our assassin lacked relics etc, list goes on. It's proof that this fight is NOT impossible with current gear. Edited June 16, 2013 by Zyntharion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paowee Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 (edited) The fight is sadly tuned so ridiculously tight that some specs are just out of the question. Assassin dps? You have to be that 0.1% to even be considered. Merc/commando? Sure we even did it with Nim healer. He's the best Merc healer I've seen in this game by far. Juggernaut Rage/Vengeance is also 100% probable. Lace was Vengeance on our kill. He also went rage on earlier attempts a day ago when we wiped at 8%. Scoundrel dps? Dirty fighting/Lethality is 100% probable imo if you're good at it. The fight should be nerfed in terms of the enrage. Anything between 15 seconds to 1 minute. Not only to make it more available to others, but to release the pressure of the composition. Keep in mind that we wiped over 150 times in this encounter. It took alot of stubborness and dedication, showing you the lengths we had to go to get this fight down. Edit: I also want to mention that the whole group was in fact not BiS. Our Vengeance Jug had Dreadguard and EWH relics. I missed 2 Implants and 2 Enhancments. Our Other sniper missed an implant. Asa the sorc healer completly lacked any kind of dedicated Healing gear (Some enhancment swaps and 4p Dps set bonus lol). Our assassin lacked relics etc, list goes on. It's proof that this fight is NOT impossible with current gear. I do not know if this can be a good basis or not http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=637291 but what's your opinion on Lightning Sorc DPS for this fight. If you had the same comp but swapped Veng Jugg for a Lightning Sorc, do you think it will be doable? My guess is yes and i sure hope so! And yeah Lethality Ops definitely are doing enough single target DPS and is on par if not more than on par with the Jugg (Dizella and Invic from torparse showed us that) lol Edited June 16, 2013 by paowee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyntharion Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 I do not know if this can be a good basis or not http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=637291 but what do you think about Lightning Sorc DPS. If you had the same comp but swapped Veng Jugg for a Lightning Sorc, do you think it will be doable? My guess is yes and i sure hope so! It's more than doable. Asa was actually Lightning which is his main spec for some attempts (Including a 8%). It is more than doable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paowee Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 (edited) It's more than doable. Asa was actually Lightning which is his main spec for some attempts (Including a 8%). It is more than doable! Very nice to hear that. Now idk what to gear up first, my sorc dps or jugg dps. Darn your Jugg DPS nim dg kill Edited June 16, 2013 by paowee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyntharion Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Very nice to hear that. Now idk what to gear up first, my sorc dps or jugg dps. Darn your Jugg DPS nim dg kill We've had quite a few attempts where Lace's offtaunt has saved us substantial dps time by playing pinball with our real tanks . Lightning has insane Burst potential in the first phase aswell as Chain lightning for the adds (Don't forget Doom ignore with the Force barrier) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avlantia Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 I am devestated. But I love you guys all the same. Still i feel a bit as though i worked my *** off for nothing. But hey, YOU KILLED IT! Talk about having torn feelings. *sigh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshlaBoga Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Dooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnn There needs to be a /highfive or /thumbsup emote for kills like this. Drop it like it's Hoth proves that you don't even need a Mara and can do it with a Jug in your group. I hope in the future we'll see this kind of difficulty done on purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshlaBoga Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 (edited) The fight should be nerfed in terms of the enrage. Anything between 15 seconds to 1 minute. Not only to make it more available to others, but to release the pressure of the composition. Edit: I also want to mention that the whole group was in fact not BiS. Our Vengeance Jug had Dreadguard and EWH relics. I missed 2 Implants and 2 Enhancments. Our Other sniper missed an implant. Asa the sorc healer completly lacked any kind of dedicated Healing gear (Some enhancment swaps and 4p Dps set bonus lol). Our assassin lacked relics etc, list goes on. It's proof that this fight is NOT impossible with current gear. I think a 60 second nerf would be overdoing it. 15-45 seconds sounds fair for a nerf. Edit: Having watched the vid I revised my earlier opinion, 30-45 seconds sounds fair 15 seconds and I'd never get that boss down until my guild was in 90% KD Edited June 16, 2013 by AshlaBoga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleMe Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Gratz guys... May we see DPS logs ? From the video it looked like Kelsara got killed by Saber Reflect, which would be slightly amusing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umbak Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Should be up sometime tomorrow. I was really hoping our assasin would kill her with Wither for added catharsis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paowee Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 (edited) Should be up sometime tomorrow. I was really hoping our assasin would kill her with Wither for added catharsis i was hoping your merc would kill her with rocket punch. i was let down... Edited June 16, 2013 by paowee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umbak Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 I think everyone wanted to be responsible for the hit that put her in the ground, if the tanks were not already dead I'm sure they'd be bee lining straight for her with force speed to claim the honour before anyone else could beat her down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airwolfe Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 (edited) The fight should be nerfed in terms of the enrage. Anything between 15 seconds to 1 minute. Not only to make it more available to others, but to release the pressure of the composition. Keep in mind that we wiped over 150 times in this encounter. It took alot of stubborness and dedication, showing you the lengths we had to go to get this fight down. Edit: I also want to mention that the whole group was in fact not BiS. Our Vengeance Jug had Dreadguard and EWH relics. I missed 2 Implants and 2 Enhancments. Our Other sniper missed an implant. Asa the sorc healer completly lacked any kind of dedicated Healing gear (Some enhancment swaps and 4p Dps set bonus lol). Our assassin lacked relics etc, list goes on. It's proof that this fight is NOT impossible with current gear. *disclaimer* This post is made with respect to your kill and simply expressing my opinion on difficulty presently and for future content. Considering all of the above quoted..lacking gear plus the mistakes you all admit to making (mainly the two tank deaths from misplaced heals), and the already less than what is probably optimal class composition, I think it's perfectly reasonable to leave the fight as is - it was killed without a perfect performance. I maintain a strong opinion that only the best should be capable of clearing nightmare content - it's not content meant to be cleared by the masses. 150 wipes, I would expect to be the norm on maximum difficulty content for those who want a true challenge. Please don't ask for nerfs, as everything prior to this in game, at least in 8 man, has been far too easy. Edited June 16, 2013 by Airwolfe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paowee Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 (edited) *disclaimer* this post is made with respect to your kill and simply expressing my opinion on difficulty presently and for future nightmare content. considering all of the above quoted..lacking gear plus the mistakes you all admit to making (mainly the two tank deaths from misplaced heals), and the already less than what is probably optimal class composition, i think it's perfectly reasonable to leave the fight as is - it was killed without a perfect performance. I maintain a strong opinion that only the best should be capable of clearing nightmare content - it's not content meant to be cleared by the masses. 150 wipes, i would expect to be the norm on maximum difficulty content for those who want a true challenge. please don't ask for nerfs, as everything prior to this in game, at least in 8 man, has been far too easy. QFT Plus there is always the option to swap Council on HM and farm gear in NiM Op ix, kephes, and TFB over the course of a few weeks. Leave council as is. Farm NiM withering horror, op ix, kephess and tfb, then go back to NiM council when you have more gear for it. These bosses have already been downed and the bugs that Death and Taxes discovered we're reported to the devs as well. There you have it.. 5/5 NiM TFB for the hardcore end-game guilds. Everyone got their challenging content, and everyone is happy that content is not rolled through in a week. Edited June 16, 2013 by paowee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdbswong Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Congrats ! Aside from the senseless bickering, it's been great fun following this thread and the progress made by various Guilds over all these attempts. I'm just sad that i went to sleep early and didn't notice DILIH were streaming their attempts . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thufir_Hawat Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 I am devestated. But I love you guys all the same. Still i feel a bit as though i worked my *** off for nothing. But hey, YOU KILLED IT! Talk about having torn feelings. *sigh* Know how you feel Av, but if we hadn't have been there to wipe with them 50-100 times this would not have been possible as experience is the key to this fight. Well done guys very, very proud of you, sorry I was away, bloodthirst will be ready for you next time. Tenacity and never say die attitude for the win. Well done DiLiH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solar_Breeze Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 (edited) QFT everyone is happy that content is not rolled through in a week. We still have 2 more days! But 100% agree. That was the best test for tank/heal/dps I have done in game so far. Edited June 16, 2013 by Solar_Breeze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHeisenberg Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 I am devestated. But I love you guys all the same. Still i feel a bit as though i worked my *** off for nothing. But hey, YOU KILLED IT! Talk about having torn feelings. *sigh* I understand how you feel, if i was the one who missed this cause of the connection problems i would be pissed out of my mind, probably would cancel my subscription and contract with my internet provider. But that is exactly what you shouldn't do, just remember this wouldn't be possible without you. You deserve credit for the kill just like everyone who participated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gultark Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Gratz guys! so much gratz! i know how hard you all worked for this! so glad i wasn't home last night or i'd have been woken up by maloney's nerd scream ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErosGyne Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 (edited) I realy dont have a problem with the fight, NiM is Nim, but( and again) i think that will be some specs that arent going to "able" to do this fight especially with a random composition.My guils has 3 ops group,all are farming end game,(not a big deal) but we dont pick the "best" class or spec, we play what we like And "forcing" tanks and maybe healer to dps!! i dont want tanks and helaers doing my job, ppl already say that dps is for the less skill (bumb) players, easy(faceroll) to play, the realy "job" is tanking and healing, and this fight isnt helping with that.Still need then to dps or we will reach enrage at 40%( most videos enrage at 40%) BW let each role to their job, want to make the fight harder? sure i am for it, just dont increase the HP every time and say put all in the group dpsing I want more challenges as dps, but this fight it seem we are the weaker link,still need help of the other roles to do our job, from day one, tanks and healers can to their job just fine, but dps isnt, reaching enrage timer is dps faults edit, that or tanking and healing are more of a faceroll if they have the time and energy to dps in a fight aswell Edited June 16, 2013 by ErosGyne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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