New idea for healers :)

[Frankenseuss]

So my last post about healers seemed to be a flop, resulting in people making personal attacks on others and telling each other l2p, which was never my intention.

 

Moving on, on a very serious note, I've come up with another brainstormed idea for the balancing of healers in PvP environments.

 

As I studied all three healing classes, whether it be class mechanics or forums on each of them, I've noticed a few things and came up with this idea. (Please correct me on any information you see here that is false)

 

From what I can tell, it would appear that the three healers are defined as such:

 

1) Mercenaries/Commandos are terrible healers. We have no survivability and can barely hold our own against just ONE dps. (From what I've seen, I don't have a merc healer so I don't know personally.)

 

2) Sages/Sorcerors are fine. Once you pop their bubble and stay on them, they go down. But their heals are amazing if left alone, or has great kiting skills.

 

3) Scoundrels/Operatives need a nerf. Their abilities are mostly instant cast and their heals are off the charts. It takes several people to bring one down, and if he has another healer helping him, you can forget ever killing him.

 

Looking at this, I realized that there's one that needs a buff, one that's fine as is, and one that needs a nerf. So, what if say the Merc has a HPS of 2.0K, the Sorc has 2.5K, and the op has 3.0K. Would it be too far fetched to bump mercenary healing up to 2.5K and bring the Op's healing down to 2.5K? I mean, that way all three healers have the exact same healing output, are still killable, and also gives players an incentive to bring healers of all types with them to warzones.

[Sangrar]

Now wait a sec I got a scoundrel who is partly geared and the only way I am not taken down in a one on one fight is my emergence combat stealth ability. I mostly get medals through my healing not for damage or objectives. Now if scoundrel heals were nerfed my gearing would get slowed down and I would get less medals because I really depend on heals in order to be able to contribute at all to the match. As it is I only got 23k in health currently and I get killed a lot. Also when on my other characters I have brought down a lot of scoundrels and operatives, I have only seen several operatives who were very powerful and that's because they looked highly geared and they were mostly using moves from the lethality skill tree. And that's another thing, people see a healer class be a beast in pvp and they just assume that their heals need to be nerfed and that its not that they are really good at dps and/or highly geared.

[Capt_Beers]

The problem with doing this is hitting that sweet spot without breaking the mechanics of the class i.e. making Scoundrels less mobile which would really change the way the class is made or destroying PvE.

[sithaztec]

Nerfing anything in PVP usually breaks it in PVE. Bioware has no idea how to manage these thing separately. Plus your assessment assumes that player skill is the same across the board.

 

I am far harder to kill on my operative healer in PVP but I put up higher numbers on my Sorc. I can agree that heals are a little nutty right now in PVP, but we honestly can't trust Bioware to fix something they "broke".

Edited June 4, 2013 by sithaztec

[TheGreatFrosty]

So my last post about healers seemed to be a flop, resulting in people making personal attacks on others and telling each other l2p, which was never my intention.

 

Moving on, on a very serious note, I've come up with another brainstormed idea for the balancing of healers in PvP environments.

 

As I studied all three healing classes, whether it be class mechanics or forums on each of them, I've noticed a few things and came up with this idea. (Please correct me on any information you see here that is false)

 

From what I can tell, it would appear that the three healers are defined as such:

 

1) Mercenaries/Commandos are terrible healers. We have no survivability and can barely hold our own against just ONE dps. (From what I've seen, I don't have a merc healer so I don't know personally.)

 

2) Sages/Sorcerors are fine. Once you pop their bubble and stay on them, they go down. But their heals are amazing if left alone, or has great kiting skills.

 

3) Scoundrels/Operatives need a nerf. Their abilities are mostly instant cast and their heals are off the charts. It takes several people to bring one down, and if he has another healer helping him, you can forget ever killing him.

 

Looking at this, I realized that there's one that needs a buff, one that's fine as is, and one that needs a nerf. So, what if say the Merc has a HPS of 2.0K, the Sorc has 2.5K, and the op has 3.0K. Would it be too far fetched to bump mercenary healing up to 2.5K and bring the Op's healing down to 2.5K? I mean, that way all three healers have the exact same healing output, are still killable, and also gives players an incentive to bring healers of all types with them to warzones.

 

How obvious can this rubbish be. This is why nothing comes from the feedback on this forum.

 

Details all three classes, referring to Commando heal as "we" and the other two in "their" or "they", with a 'disclaimer' claiming he isn't in fact a commando.

 

What's with the perfidious attempts at QQing your own class? Why not just be open? You want commando healer to be buffed, likely you don't play it well and feel that is down to the 'balance' issue - that's fine, just be open.

 

Please replace "Mercs are terrible healers" with "I'm a terrible healer and need to find a reason that explains why I am so bad"

Edited June 4, 2013 by TheGreatFrosty

[LaVall]

Good premades will chain stun me and have 2-3 heavy DPS burn me down before the stuns wear off. Then when I respawn they do it again. Under that kind of focus, nobody can survive.

[bsbrad]

^^ 2 Operatives cross healing, hell 1 Operative and a Scrapper is enough to piss off any DPS trying to take anyone down. Luckily if you keep sorcs moving then they cannot use their big healing abilities (innervate, revivication, etc...) not so true with Operatives.

 

While I admire the OP for trying to come up with a suggestion on balancing the healers I think it will never happen. I do agree that the Merc healer needs some love, the Operative might need slight nerf (know idea how, maybe scamper should take up more energy).

 

The other change would be to reduce the cooldown on the interrupts for the DPS classes to be able to make the healers think twice about casting that long heal.

 

Speaking from a healer sorc main in PVE, PVP Hybrid sniper

[sirullrich]

So my last post about healers seemed to be a flop, resulting in people making personal attacks on others and telling each other l2p, which was never my intention.

 

Moving on, on a very serious note, I've come up with another brainstormed idea for the balancing of healers in PvP environments.

 

As I studied all three healing classes, whether it be class mechanics or forums on each of them, I've noticed a few things and came up with this idea. (Please correct me on any information you see here that is false)

 

From what I can tell, it would appear that the three healers are defined as such:

 

1) Mercenaries/Commandos are terrible healers. We have no survivability and can barely hold our own against just ONE dps. (From what I've seen, I don't have a merc healer so I don't know personally.)

 

2) Sages/Sorcerors are fine. Once you pop their bubble and stay on them, they go down. But their heals are amazing if left alone, or has great kiting skills.

 

3) Scoundrels/Operatives need a nerf. Their abilities are mostly instant cast and their heals are off the charts. It takes several people to bring one down, and if he has another healer helping him, you can forget ever killing him.

 

Looking at this, I realized that there's one that needs a buff, one that's fine as is, and one that needs a nerf. So, what if say the Merc has a HPS of 2.0K, the Sorc has 2.5K, and the op has 3.0K. Would it be too far fetched to bump mercenary healing up to 2.5K and bring the Op's healing down to 2.5K? I mean, that way all three healers have the exact same healing output, are still killable, and also gives players an incentive to bring healers of all types with them to warzones.

 

I'm sorry it is not an issue of healers being unkillable. It's bad teamwork.

[Frankenseuss]

How obvious can this rubbish be. This is why nothing comes from the feedback on this forum.

 

Details all three classes, referring to Commando heal as "we" and the other two in "their" or "they", with a 'disclaimer' claiming he isn't in fact a commando.

 

What's with the perfidious attempts at QQing your own class? Why not just be open? You want commando healer to be buffed, likely you don't play it well and feel that is down to the 'balance' issue - that's fine, just be open.

 

Please replace "Mercs are terrible healers" with "I'm a terrible healer and need to find a reason that explains why I am so bad"

 

Two things to say to this one.

 

1) she*, thank you very much.

2) if I have to take pictures and upload them to prove I don't have a mercenary, I will. Now quit being negative, and please don't make any more personal attacks of the sort again. I asked for feedback on an idea, showing that I am at least 'TRYING' to come up with solutions to help satisfy everybody, so keep the negativity to yourself, please.

[Frankenseuss]

...

 

So you come right back with more negativity? Look, I have no quarrel with you nor do I have to prove to you that my healer is a sorcerer. All I can do is try asking nicely again to please keep any negativity to yourself, because I don't have the heart to retaliate to you in any way other than encouraging/nice/positive. Guess I was just raised to treat others like I want to be treated, so I treat other players like... Well... Players

Edited June 27, 2013 by CommunityDroidFR
repost

[Tankqull]

3) Scoundrels/Operatives need a nerf. Their abilities are mostly instant cast and their heals are off the charts. It takes several people to bring one down, and if he has another healer helping him, you can forget ever killing him.

 

well the problem is hots do generaate like dots big numbers on the endtable but are extremly unefficent in keeping someone alive or killing someone that is actually attacked...

[Volxen]

...

 

The only irony here is that you are suggesting someone is "bad" because they believe commando healers should be buffed. Let me guess, you think the other two healing classes are "OP" and should be brought down to the level of commandos? I'm sure you also believe you should be able to solo kill all three healing classes as well.

Edited June 27, 2013 by CommunityDroidFR
repost

[TheGreatFrosty]

So you come right back with more negativity? Look, I have no quarrel with you nor do I have to prove to you that my healer is a sorcerer. All I can do is try asking nicely again to please keep any negativity to yourself, because I don't have the heart to retaliate to you in any way other than encouraging/nice/positive. Guess I was just raised to treat others like I want to be treated, so I treat other players like... Well... Players

 

It's not negativity, it's discursively eliminating the validity of your thread as a blatant attempt to suggest A whilst meaning B. Don't deal in falsehoods. Be open about what you want to say.

 

You wouldn't be so overt in proclaiming commando healer as an incapable healer, when countless good players will tell you that is untrue, if you didn't have an alternate motif.

[Frankenseuss]

It's not negativity, it's discursively eliminating the validity of your thread as a blatant attempt to suggest A whilst meaning B. Don't deal in falsehoods. Be open about what you want to say.

 

You wouldn't be so overt in proclaiming commando healer as an incapable healer, when countless good players will tell you that is untrue, if you didn't have an alternate motif.

 

I did have an alternate motif. Every day I come to the forums. I come mainly to read about Sorcerers in order that I may better improve myself and how to properly spec and correct my mistakes. But the other reason I come here is because I see countless threads of people being upset, or people insulting each other, slandering each other, and it breaks my heart. I try sometimes to bring a laugh, or a smile to whoever may read what I had posted. Even if I've made one person smile then I feel that much better. The post you mentioned was merely one of those attempts to get people to smile.

[XxPizzaBoyxX]

imho nothing here needs buffing nor nerfing i run a healer merc and a dps marauder im not saying im really good at pvp or anything but i use the right specs (carnage)/(bodyguard) i do only have tru 8 sec interupt on my marauder but heres what i do when hunting healers while pugging focus target wait till i see 1.8-2.0 cast time ...... annnnd wait for it .3 sec left force charge interupted ravage see he is targeting not him self hit him some more if he is targeting himself and healing aagain hit him with intimidating roar and starting boom sticking him once again see him try to pull off another heal force choke then hit him some more at this point he's prolly down pretty damn low just from ravage itself he tries another heal disrupt at this point u can prolly ttry all your " big attacks or quick attacks" and the healer goes sleepy by pretty easy bc lets face op insta heals heal for like what 3k on a good crit my massacre is hitting him for 4 k twice before his heal is even off global cooldown..... now my merc healing we do have heavy armour and we can heal ourselves easier then any other class and our aoe heal is insta cast for 4k to about 5 people and then a hot on as many people that are standing in it we have the ability to make our 8k heal heal instantlly every minute our so and we have a insta heal that crits for about 7k on an 18 sec cooldown and we have another heal that is a 1.2 sec cast time if specced corecctly that heals for about 2-3 k that we can spam uninterupted for 8 sec :-0 thats better then any other classes LLLLLL222222PPPPPP IS MY RESPONSE GOOD SIRS

[MotorCityMan]

3) Scoundrels/Operatives need a nerf. Their abilities are mostly instant cast and their heals are off the charts. It takes several people to bring one down, and if he has another healer helping him, you can forget ever killing him.

 

Doesn't take serveral people to bring my ops healer down, and I have full pvp gear with some conq. Takes 2. And like another poster mentioned, if they don't kill me it's because I might be able to vanish. But if 2 dps focus me, I need to move or die. And if just one dps focuses me, I am certainly not healing the team. I am doing everything I can to stay up.

My sorc healer, also in full pvp gear with some conq, does go down easier because has no defense. On an op you have a little bit if you go to cover and use defense probes.

As has been mentioned in other threads, the hard to kill healers are really a product of a team effort. Tanks guarding, other healers on the team, dps peeling for healers.

I know dps want mmos to play like their xbox shooters on easymode. Pew Pew, stuff falls over. But just like it takes a team to keep a healer up, it takes a team to bring them down. That is what pvp is about though isn't it? Working together as a team?

On a different note, I would like to see more varied warzones. If there were larger more varied zones, with a variety of objectives, it would be a welcome break from the 8 man death matches we get now.

[Frankenseuss]

Doesn't take serveral people to bring my ops healer down, and I have full pvp gear with some conq. Takes 2. And like another poster mentioned, if they don't kill me it's because I might be able to vanish. But if 2 dps focus me, I need to move or die. And if just one dps focuses me, I am certainly not healing the team. I am doing everything I can to stay up.

My sorc healer, also in full pvp gear with some conq, does go down easier because has no defense. On an op you have a little bit if you go to cover and use defense probes.

As has been mentioned in other threads, the hard to kill healers are really a product of a team effort. Tanks guarding, other healers on the team, dps peeling for healers.

I know dps want mmos to play like their xbox shooters on easymode. Pew Pew, stuff falls over. But just like it takes a team to keep a healer up, it takes a team to bring them down. That is what pvp is about though isn't it? Working together as a team?

On a different note, I would like to see more varied warzones. If there were larger more varied zones, with a variety of objectives, it would be a welcome break from the 8 man death matches we get now.

 

Oh I know it doesn't take a lot to kill ops, in fact I've soloed a couple of scoundrels on my vengeance jugg. Those three points were summaries of what I read most often about all 3 healers. My sorc drops like a rock sometimes, but sometimes the enemy team doesn't coordinate and focus me so it's harder to kill me.

[JouerTue]

Now wait a sec I got a scoundrel who is partly geared and the only way I am not taken down in a one on one fight is my emergence combat stealth ability. I mostly get medals through my healing not for damage or objectives. Now if scoundrel heals were nerfed my gearing would get slowed down and I would get less medals because I really depend on heals in order to be able to contribute at all to the match. As it is I only got 23k in health currently and I get killed a lot. Also when on my other characters I have brought down a lot of scoundrels and operatives, I have only seen several operatives who were very powerful and that's because they looked highly geared and they were mostly using moves from the lethality skill tree. And that's another thing, people see a healer class be a beast in pvp and they just assume that their heals need to be nerfed and that its not that they are really good at dps and/or highly geared.

 

i agree with the fact that on my op i can just heal..a lot, but all the time kiting and barely taking down an enemy at less than 30% hp. and while i can throw heals crit for 8k i can barely get over 3k with attacks..

[ThatGuyToo]

All three classes do fine with healing and survivability when the player learns how to use their mechanics in PVP situations. I play all three classes and have healed in all three classes. I truly cannot say my survivability is poor ok any class though being able to edit combat on the smuggler/operative is a plus and healing works great on all three. I e also seen others top the charts on all three classes.

 

Specifically talking about the commando survival in one on one, I remember having 2 mele on me while on my commando, it took them about 45 seconds to kill me.

 

On my sage, a guildy was on the other team but still in voice chat. He kept commenting I thu could not kill me. 3 rows of DoTs and being focused. Had a tank guarding me and a second healer helped keep me alive but I was still able to heal others and myself.

 

As far as smugglers having to much survivability. Stuns and key times help bring them down.

 

 

You can read about it all day, especially to get the right build, but it takes time in the saddle to hone your skill and figure out now to make it work.

 

Cannot see it in PVP since its so busy, but in pug PVE I see some healers without heals keybound. Bind your heals/attacks to keys. Much faster which means more healing and better reaction.

[SlimsPicken]

Good premades will chain stun me and have 2-3 heavy DPS burn me down before the stuns wear off. Then when I respawn they do it again. Under that kind of focus, nobody can survive.

 

This.

 

Its not a overpowered healer issue, its a underfocused DPS issue most times. Nothing survives 3 hard DPS all focus firing one target, but dilute the DPS across several targets and it seems like no one can kill a Operative healer being cross healed.

 

focus and stun lock below 30%. Its not that hard, but it cant be done alone when you are talking about guarded healers being cross healed, you need the DPS to actually focus fire.

 

And for the healer to be that tough to kill they need a tank, another healer cross healing, and possibly multiple non tank taunters to maintain the debuff on opposing DPS. I think its a fair tradeoff to have to sit 3 -4 DPS on them for a 4 second burn phase.

 

All the complaints about OP healing I hear always comes down to lack of support on the killing of healers who themselves are supported by multiple teammates... yeah you just arent going to solo them.

[Suoirtsulli]

I had an idea for healers: What if tanks can taunt them using the same taunts they do for dps, ofc they can't force a healer to attack them but what if they lowered the heals to all team mates by 30 %. Whilst the aoe taunt would work on all heals the single one could be targeted to the scoundrels giving them slightly less healing output than the others. This would also pressure the tank to make better choices, are the healers doing more to affect the game than the dps who should I target with my single taunts etc? This may also lead to dps doing more and more ppl dying which judging from some other posts seems to be a problem.

[Brunner_Venda]

I had an idea for healers: What if tanks can taunt them using the same taunts they do for dps, ofc they can't force a healer to attack them but what if they lowered the heals to all team mates by 30 %. Whilst the aoe taunt would work on all heals the single one could be targeted to the scoundrels giving them slightly less healing output than the others. This would also pressure the tank to make better choices, are the healers doing more to affect the game than the dps who should I target with my single taunts etc? This may also lead to dps doing more and more ppl dying which judging from some other posts seems to be a problem.

 

A taunt reducing healing output by 30%.

 

This is not a bad idea.

[akabane_k]

The problem is that sorcs and ops have a no-cd instacast heal(bubble and kolto probe) that is an effective use of both energy and gcd in terms of healing output, which allows them to keep healing on the move or when interrupted. The closest thing commandos have is hammer shot, which is a filler attack, and does nowhere near as much. Fix that and commandos will be mostly good for healing in pvp.

[Altheran]

This.

 

Its not a overpowered healer issue, its a underfocused DPS issue most times. Nothing survives 3 hard DPS all focus firing one target, but dilute the DPS across several targets and it seems like no one can kill a Operative healer being cross healed.

 

focus and stun lock below 30%. Its not that hard, but it cant be done alone when you are talking about guarded healers being cross healed, you need the DPS to actually focus fire.

 

And for the healer to be that tough to kill they need a tank, another healer cross healing, and possibly multiple non tank taunters to maintain the debuff on opposing DPS. I think its a fair tradeoff to have to sit 3 -4 DPS on them for a 4 second burn phase.

 

All the complaints about OP healing I hear always comes down to lack of support on the killing of healers who themselves are supported by multiple teammates... yeah you just arent going to solo them.

 

I won't argue that it's normal that focus fire is needed when a healer is given support from his mates. But there's a problem with the need of 3-4 DPS in order to overcome this : a team isn't supposed to have more than 4 DPS. At this point that not a simple focus fire. That's an extreme focus fire since you need to put all the team's fire power on it, and I think that's problematic.

 

The maximum damage output of a team also has to be considered, not only the maximum survivability output.

 

I wouldn't say that if groups in SWTOR were 6-men (making WZ 12-men) instead of 4-men.

[Shakhaar]

As people said above, I think the main issue is that DPS players don't use their CC adequately, and in most cases just randomly blow it at "some" point. But that's not really their function. Sure, you can use it to annoy players, but it's best to save it for that special moment.

 

It's a pity these discussions usually deteriorate into "only a terribad DPS can't kill a healer" and the mirror argument "only a terribad healer complains about DPS". Don't think healers are really meant to be soloable by one DPS player - more of a stalemate where the healer outheals incoming damage while dealing low amounts of damage themselves. The whole point is that if you pressure the healer, he has less capacity to heal team mates. Earning the kill on them is secondary. At least that's what I presume.

 

Operative healers are perfectly killable if you focus them. If you don't focus them and just run around attacking random targets (I never understand why everyone has to have their "own" target - if you see someone attacking someone else, go help them and you'll drop their target faster increasing the damage output of your team and decreasing the damage output of the enemy one) then yeah, they will have a very easy time healing everyone and themselves from the occasional random attack.