Addons in Swtor

[Mallorik]

These types of things sound like good ideas.

 

And again, I'm not trying to fight the inclusion of add-ons. I primarily entered this thread when Mallorick tried to claim that the lack of add-ons were the reason people "left the game like it was a house on fire."

 

So still haven't worked on that reading comprehension? Addons were only one of the reasons I listed, I never said at anytime anywhere that the lack of addons were the sole reason swtor failed.

[Ratajack]

Either you're not really sure what these features do, or you have a different definition of "automate" then the dictionary.

 

 

 

You're underestimating them. They're a huge part of community and game feedback that is directly picked up by developers.

 

 

 

Sorry, but no. I've been playing this game since launch with no addons. The type of addons I enjoy are simply quality of life additions that take the pressure off the devs to fix them. Wouldn't you like an in-game calender? An ability to save sets of gear? Something to tell you which of your alts has which crafting materials and how many without logging on to each character and looking through your bank? All these kinds of things can be created by the community through addons.

 

Do you mean add-ons like guild calendar, armory and ackis recipe list? I would classify those add-ons as "informational" as opposed to "functional". Would I like to see BW add those "informational" features to their UI? Yes.

 

I do not think that it is possible to allow the creation of "informational" add-ons without opening the Pandora's box of "functional" or "combat" add-ons, though.

 

would rather deal with no "informational" add-ons than to have to deal with the problems caused by the existence of the "combat" add-ons.

[Ratajack]

LOL, wow, rift and SWTOR all have features in there ah that can be traced back to player made addons. Wow, swtor and rift all have cool down timer options. Wow and rift both have native mouse over healing by use of macros like /cast @ and /mouseover.

 

 

And thanks for another great example of why people should not be listening to you.

 

Having to create a macro to enable mouse over healing is NOT the same as WoW implementing it. If WoW had truly implemented mouse over healing, you would not have to create a macro to do it.

 

Thanks for another great example of why people should not be listening to you.

[Mallorik]

Having to create a macro to enable mouse over healing is NOT the same as WoW implementing it. If WoW had truly implemented mouse over healing, you would not have to create a macro to do it.

 

Thanks for another great example of why people should not be listening to you.

 

This is why you should not even be here discussing this. Do you even know what a macro is? im not talking about third party mice or software im talking about IN GAME MACROS that were put there by wow devs.

 

Wow has an ingame macro editor, you go into it make a new button and add the macro /target mouseover

/cast Lifebloom and when you hit that button it will cast life bloom on what you have your mouse on whether its a person or a raid frame. Rift has the same thing.

[Khevar]

So still haven't worked on that reading comprehension? Addons were only one of the reasons I listed, I never said at anytime anywhere that the lack of addons were the sole reason swtor failed.

True. But you certainly seem to think they were important enough to include in your argument as to why the game bled subs.

 

I don't think they were important enough (as compared to all the other reasons the game bled subs) to warrant much consideration.

 

Cheers!

Edited March 5, 2014 by Khevar

[chuixupu]

I do not think that it is possible to allow the creation of "informational" add-ons without opening the Pandora's box of "functional" or "combat" add-ons, though.

 

Oh, it totally is. I think a lot of people who are fighting against the inclusion of addons just don't realize that the developer can set pretty specific guidelines of what kinds of addons can work in the game. It happens all the time where someone comes up with something that developers go "nope" and they remove it's ability and anything like it to function.

[Fiarstrider]

I've got to say WOW. There is no way you can open the door to any kind of add-on's, with out opening the door to all of them. Its impossible. When it comes to add-on's you have three sets of players.

 

1) you have the set that only want so called informational add-on's

2) you have the set that wants functionality add-ons

3) you have the set that wants combat add-on's

 

To give one group add-on's and not the others. Would be like a parent telling their kids only one of them can have candy. Its an all or nothing situation.

 

IMHO I don't think this game needs any add-on's of any sort. I would like to see the QoL of legacy storage added. Would be nice but even that is not needed.

[officerbeepsky]

i like it the way it is. UI is good and shows pretty much everything that has to be shown. I don't like WoW for that reason, everyone has addons that gives them some sort of advantage in pvp and pve scenarios.

[Cidanel]

I don't think I missed anything, this game most definitely tried to be wow with a star wars skin, right down to cut and pasting wows abilities into swtor. And they did a good job of copyng wow, in 2005.

 

 

And this game didn't launch with anymore "issues" than any other mmo I can think of including wow. The choice to not include qol features like a automated group finder and addons isn't an "issue", it was just a stupid managerial decision that continues to this day.

 

Every game created since 1995 is just a cut and paste of an older game with a different skin. There haven't been new abilities in any MMO since maybe EQ1. Saying this is a copy and paste of abilities from WoW is pretty stupid, given WoW's abilities are simply a copy and paste of an older game as well.

 

And addons are not 'quality of life features', they are 'make the game easier to play features'. Adding them would be a very stupid managerial decision.

[Obiwanson]

Additional tracking tools? Oh you mean like a little coloured dot by the in each character's raidframe when they take aggro?

That little coloured dot was the difference between Guru VII being almost being kicked out of the guild due to low performance (little effective healing, a lot of overhealing (total healing was still good)) and Guru VII being second on the healing charts (beaten by another Paladin, whose gear and skill surpassed my own). That is the effects of addons and that is why people are forced to use them after they are implemented, at least, if they wish to compete with people that have them.

 

Sounds like your raid leaders didn't know what they were doing if they were comparing your throughput with crappy gear to someone else's throughput with better gear rather than looking at spells casts, dot uptimes, time w/ no spells cast, etc. Without good tooling the opposite is also true. They can't truly evaluate how you perform so they just blame you immediately when something goes wrong.

 

Besides w/o addons to tell you what's going on, doesn't it just force you to be more vocal in vent. Dispel Johnny I have the debuff (which players cant tell in game because raid frames suck).

 

I agree some addons make the game too easy and should be left out. However there are other, non-gameplay related QoL addons that would be nice.

 

As I said before, addons aren't necessary if developers are implementing their features into the game...but at the moment they are not doing so, so it just feels like stuff is missing from the game.

 

People do not compare SWTOR to WoW ...they compare it to WoW + ADDONS. Then they are disappointed when they come to SWTOR and find features missing that they grew accustomed to in WoW (that weren't even in base WoW but rather just an addon). It's like someone trying to sell you a new model year Ford that doesn't have power windows and will likely never get them.

 

For example:

 

1. Which of your toons has the thermal regulator? Even if I tell you its on toon A and in your current inventory, how long does it take you to find the item?

 

2. How quickly can you open 20 expired auction mails and loot the item and the deposit?

 

These are things even WoW doesn't do...but WoW has had addons that do it, where as SWTOR does not. As a result SWTOR gets viewed as subpar. Personally I think its the better game (engine aside)....but these tiny things add up.

 

You can die from a papercut if you get enough of them.

[Jeweledleah]

how quickly can I open 20 expired auctions and loot the items? in 2 seconds. becasue SWTOR base mail UI has this little selection window at the top of the mailbox along with a little trash can and a little square next to it. trashcan is delete button - which allows you to mass delete your mails. the box is mass pick up. so when I need to mass open my maisl? I click "select all" and than click "open selected mails"

 

bam - no addons needed.

 

here's another trick. when you go to any vendor and need to sell junk? did you know that there's a button now at the bottom of the vendor window that lets you do that with a single click?

 

oh and btw, GTN? has shift-click item name now, so you don't have to type it in manually, and you can sort your results by item price, allowing you to find cheapest item first.

 

tell me again how SWTOR doesn't implement quality of life features?

 

it might go slower than relying on addon makers. but at least you don't have to worry about patches breaking them in adition to patches adding general game bugs. and if you are going to try to tell me that wow patches don't introduce new bugs into the game? I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you, cheap! I played WoW for a long time and still occasionally come back on my trial account. it took them nearly a decade just to have a game more or less playable on a patch day, even in Cata, we would just take bets in guild as too how long the delay would last, how soon they would take servers down again for ANOTHER maintenance and how long before we could actualy go exploring new raid content.

[Rafaman]

It must be time to talk about addons again.

 

Yup. Nothing has changed. Still not needed, and at least in my case not wanted.

 

You want to make Ops easier? Learn the OP. Know what to do and when. Learn how to handle your procs.

 

What quality of life feature would require an add-on? Selling stuff on GTN? Organizing cargo? Using your emotes? Not needed.

[Mallorik]

Every game created since 1995 is just a cut and paste of an older game with a different skin. There haven't been new abilities in any MMO since maybe EQ1. Saying this is a copy and paste of abilities from WoW is pretty stupid, given WoW's abilities are simply a copy and paste of an older game as well.

 

And addons are not 'quality of life features', they are 'make the game easier to play features'. Adding them would be a very stupid managerial decision.

 

Why do people this clueless even bother arguing, you obviously don't know what a quality of life feature is or what an addon is. Wow and other mmos have copied what past mmos have done, swtor just copied the bad things wow has done and left out the good parts.

 

This game is a lot easier than wow, wow has addons. which also brings us to you thinking that allowing addons would be a stupid managerial decision lol, yeah that's why blizzard has and keeps addons because people hate them, probably the same reason every major mmo coming out has addons.

 

What are you people really afraid of? getting turned down from pug SM 16 mans because you cant figure out how to install an addon?

[Khevar]

Why do people this clueless even bother arguing, you obviously don't know what a quality of life feature is or what an addon is.

I find your brilliant and eloquent speech both impassioned and moving. Surely, you will convince everyone who reads this to abandon their wrongly-held beliefs and flock to your banner.

 

Verily you are a King among debaters.

[Extra-welt]

They cannot sell addons support as a cartel market item so we're never gonna see addons in the game

[Cidanel]

Why do people this clueless even bother arguing, you obviously don't know what a quality of life feature is or what an addon is. Wow and other mmos have copied what past mmos have done, swtor just copied the bad things wow has done and left out the good parts.

 

Thanks for going right for insults. I know what QOL features are, and I am all for them. I know what add ons are, and I am 100% against them. Addons are a bad feature in WoW. They let poor players feel 'l33t' without putting work in to learn the game. That might be something you want, but I definitely don't.

 

And again - every modern MMO is a copy of another with a different paint job. You seem to want to ignore that fact and paint WoW as god's gift to mankind. WoW is popular because it hit the tipping point in market growth. It is popular due to a phenomenon of product adoption that happens independent of any product quality. In short, it had better marketing than other games, not necessarily better content.

 

Look up 'tipping points' in marketing if you don't believe me.

 

This game is a lot easier than wow, wow has addons. which also brings us to you thinking that allowing addons would be a stupid managerial decision lol, yeah that's why blizzard has and keeps addons because people hate them, probably the same reason every major mmo coming out has addons.

 

No it isn't. WoW is stupidly easy. You download a few addons, set up your macros, go to sleep and blindly press a few buttons every once in a while. Blizzard keeps addons because it makes for an easier game. I would much rather have a more challenging game with less people than a huge game that is easier.

 

Following your logic, EA should make the game more like candy crush, since that is wildly popular. Claiming one game should copy another simply because the other is popular is nothing short of moronic.

 

What are you people really afraid of? getting turned down from pug SM 16 mans because you cant figure out how to install an addon?

 

I am afraid of people like you ending up on my OPs group who are clueless on how to play the game, and only know how to spam smash the macro you blindly downloaded from a 5 minute google search.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Cidanel

[DarthSothoth]

Threat clearly isn't a problem, generally, in this game. Threat meter is not necessary. Raid mechanics in any MMO including WoW are pretty easy to see and deal with without an addon like DBM or whatever. I endgame raided in wow, healing and dps, for years, effectively only running a damage/hps meter and bejeweled. (No addon raid frames or UI changes) Most addons in WoW are not raid related, they are comfort and easy of life "improvements." *hint the quotations

 

I am also of the opinion that people who are adamantly against dps meters are the people who are usually at the bottom of them, taken from experience in WoW. For maximizing the effectiveness of a group, knowing who isn't pulling their weight and how to help them is probably the best thing for the group, and the person, and a DPS Meter is where that starts. The Active Logging technique is an essentially effective replacement but to watch it continuously while practicing and closing up gaps in your rotation might require a second monitor and not everyone has the capability or money to run one. If they put one in the game it wouldn't take much effort to add one.

[Aries_cz]

Threat clearly isn't a problem, generally, in this game. Threat meter is not necessary. Raid mechanics in any MMO including WoW are pretty easy to see and deal with without an addon like DBM or whatever. I endgame raided in wow, healing and dps, for years, effectively only running a damage/hps meter and bejeweled. (No addon raid frames or UI changes) Most addons in WoW are not raid related, they are comfort and easy of life "improvements." *hint the quotations

 

I am also of the opinion that people who are adamantly against dps meters are the people who are usually at the bottom of them, taken from experience in WoW. For maximizing the effectiveness of a group, knowing who isn't pulling their weight and how to help them is probably the best thing for the group, and the person, and a DPS Meter is where that starts. The Active Logging technique is an essentially effective replacement but to watch it continuously while practicing and closing up gaps in your rotation might require a second monitor and not everyone has the capability or money to run one. If they put one in the game it wouldn't take much effort to add one.

 

Sure, "most of them" are not raid related, because there are only few of those, but from what I remember, that few were needed as a "entry pass" for any raid, because leader could not be bothered to know tactics, and all were supposed to do what the addon told them.

[Wylf]

For maximizing the effectiveness of a group, knowing who isn't pulling their weight and how to help them is probably the best thing for the group, and the person, and a DPS Meter is where that starts. .

 

Yeah, from my experience DPS Meters were never used to help people who were at the bottom of them. They were used to curse at said people and then remove them from the group

 

I get the reason for DPS Meters, I really do. I used one myself for the longest time. But in my experience they tend to create a really toxic atmosphere.

[Sendrel]

Would love to see some form of Altoholic, action bar addon, raid/party/unit frames addon, titan panel, bagnon, etc. I no longer have the available free time to raid so I wouldn't advocate for something like DBM, although some form of buff/debuff tracking and filtering would be sweet.

[znihilist]

Yeah, from my experience DPS Meters were never used to help people who were at the bottom of them. They were used to curse at said people and then remove them from the group

 

I get the reason for DPS Meters, I really do. I used one myself for the longest time. But in my experience they tend to create a really toxic atmosphere.

 

We already have that toxic atmosphere just check the PvE and class sub-forums. In the last two years or so whenever a class got a nerf, a certain % of the players are up in arms on how their class is now useless and how they are going to shelf it and reroll. You can always see the comment on how they refuse to be carried by other members of the raid (if they are dps for example). While it is true that your class going from very good to okay is frustrating, the reaction seems to stem from numbers on the screen. No one wants to see himself on the bottom of the dps leaderboard of the team and I can't blame them, even if it changes nothing as in they are still an effective raid member.

I myself use for self improvement, but I really don't like when numbers are compared because no matter the contrast that exist among the members of the raid, it is never the full picture.

[BuriDogshin]

I get the reason for DPS Meters, I really do. I used one myself for the longest time. But in my experience they tend to create a really toxic atmosphere.

In the raid groups I have run in, people sometimes beat themselves up over their DPS, but no one else does. If we have enough DPS we have enough DPS, and everyone understands that some classes do better in some fights and others do better in others.

 

That said, the group I raid with generally wipes either because someone does not "know the dance" yet, someone durfs, or we get unlucky, and not because we lack DPS. But even so, when I look back at the people we have replaced in the group, it was usually over team dynamic issues (i.e., "drama") or lack of situational awareness, not because of low DPS.

 

Anyone can learn a rotation that will give good-enough DPS. But some people just never seem to notice the red circle they are standing in or the lethal debuff they picked up until it is too late.

[missbanjo]

I just want one that tells me if my alts have <this item> in their bags. I don't care about dps meters and all that junk, I can play just fine without them. Crafting is a whole other matter.

[Rafaman]

Is it that time of the month again? And I'm talking about the time we spend every month talking about Addons.

[Grayseven]

I just want one that tells me if my alts have <this item> in their bags. I don't care about dps meters and all that junk, I can play just fine without them. Crafting is a whole other matter.

 

That doesn't have to be done with an add on. No QoL feature needs to be done with an add on. EA/BW can add that in to the UI if they so desire and/or enough people want it.

 

The argument that independent sources could do more with add ons to add QoL changes to the game fails whenever you look at all of the bad add ons add to a game. I'd rather wait for the company itself to add the QoL changes than deal once again with the charlie foxtrot WoWs add on arms race became.