TUXs Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 So much of the opposition is based on what in my opinion seems a totally erroneous assumption, namely that AC change, if added, would be as easy as spec swap. Not just that, but they also assume every player who would use it would be a terribad player and a d-bag who rolls NEED on everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuixupu Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Not just that, but they also assume every player who would use it would be a terribad player and a d-bag who rolls NEED on everything. People already do that. They probably should work on their loot system a bit. If it's an armor class and main stat you can't use, you can't need it, but you can greed it. Add "need for companion" function, maybe. You can still trade any items with people in your group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xienive Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 I think it's kind of ironic how if somebody made a thread about something they didn't like other players doing they would get jumped on and be told to let others play how they want because it doesn't affect them. Yet if somebody suggest AC changes, people love to say no no no and stop somebody from playing the game their own way that wouldn't affect them. I played EQII for a long time, and there you can switch to the other class in your section which would be the equivalent of an AC change and never once did I ever see anybody try to loot gear for the class they could switch to, only ever for the one they already were. However they also have this great system to where you can set it to where you can't need on items that don't directly pertain to your class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorstram Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 So much of the opposition is based on what in my opinion seems a totally erroneous assumption, namely that AC change, if added, would be as easy as spec swap. That is what quite a few posters have voiced. If it were something that were a one-time event, or with a significant cooldown, then I could get on board with it. But just two pages ago, we had a knucklehead indicating that it should be something as simple as an alternate spec. That is what I'm vehemently against. I mean, Bran, if you're serious about class-reassignment surgery, and have been taking your hormones and vitamins, and are ready for this one-time life event, then I'm proudly there with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glowrod Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 I'm not going to read 82 pages to try to follow this... When you choose an AC, you are warned that the choice is final and can't be undone. As a matter of principal, I am against changing AC because everyone agreed ahead of time that they wouldn't. If we allow AC change, we might as well take it one step further and allow class change. I'm playing my Consular and suddenly a boss that would be much easier with a Knight, I'll just class change and this will be as easy as cake! We, as players in any MMO, select a class that we want to experience and play it to the end. If we want to experience a different class, we roll up a different toon. AC is the exact same. There is a world of difference between the Sage and the Shadow. Switching them is no trivial thing. It's like a pro wrestler suddenly wanting to be a surgeon. It's rediculous. I vote "No" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 I'm not going to read 82 pages to try to follow this... When you choose an AC, you are warned that the choice is final and can't be undone. As a matter of principal, I am against changing AC because everyone agreed ahead of time that they wouldn't. Who is "everyone?" And just because it works that way now does not mean they can't change it. That's like saying "You can't raise the speed limit on this road because it's always been 25 MPH." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeweledleah Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 That's a given. My biggest issue with the A/C change is not the change itself, but the impact it has on gear drops. Specifically PuGs. It's an area already rife with idiots, the concern is those who would abuse it. I'm not concerned with you or Bran, it's the other soft children out there who may or may not A/C change who are in effect stealing gear from someone who DOESN'T want an A/C change, who picked the correct class out of the gate, losing gear to someone who became wishy-washy about their toon choice,. Now please keep in mind, I'm talking about actual main rolling, not house-rules regarding alt or companion rolls. like its been mentioned before. legacy gear. people roll for offspecs/alts/companions already. all the time. people roll on items their AC technically cannot use, but that has modifications they can pull out and put into item they CAN use... all. the. time. in fact, as far as I know - its a pretty acceptable thing to do, since you are still rolling for yourself, and so many of us have definitive gear sets that look of which we like, so mods will be pulled out regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeweledleah Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 I'm not going to read 82 pages to try to follow this... When you choose an AC, you are warned that the choice is final and can't be undone. As a matter of principal, I am against changing AC because everyone agreed ahead of time that they wouldn't. If we allow AC change, we might as well take it one step further and allow class change. I'm playing my Consular and suddenly a boss that would be much easier with a Knight, I'll just class change and this will be as easy as cake! We, as players in any MMO, select a class that we want to experience and play it to the end. If we want to experience a different class, we roll up a different toon. AC is the exact same. There is a world of difference between the Sage and the Shadow. Switching them is no trivial thing. It's like a pro wrestler suddenly wanting to be a surgeon. It's rediculous. I vote "No" Class change is NOT the same as AC change in this game. why? stories. stories and companions. Ac is your class specialization. NOT different class. there is a world of difference between sage healer and sage dps as well. and yet switching is allowed. in other words? you are using logical fallacy on top of logical fallacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glowrod Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 (edited) Who is "everyone?" And just because it works that way now does not mean they can't change it. That's like saying "You can't raise the speed limit on this road because it's always been 25 MPH." I need you to go back and address the rest of my post, rather than take just one small piece of it and use it to validate your point of view. It's like "You made several points, but I disagree with one of them therefor the entire thing is invalid and that makes me right!" I'm not going to read 82 pages to try to follow this... When you choose an AC, you are warned that the choice is final and can't be undone. As a matter of principal, I am against changing AC because everyone agreed ahead of time that they wouldn't. If we allow AC change, we might as well take it one step further and allow class change. I'm playing my Consular and suddenly a boss that would be much easier with a Knight, I'll just class change and this will be as easy as cake! We, as players in any MMO, select a class that we want to experience and play it to the end. If we want to experience a different class, we roll up a different toon. AC is the exact same. There is a world of difference between the Sage and the Shadow. Switching them is no trivial thing. It's like a pro wrestler suddenly wanting to be a surgeon. It's rediculous. I vote "No" Edited October 23, 2013 by Glowrod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 (edited) I need you to go back and address the rest of my post, rather than take just one small piece of it and use it to validate your point of view. It's like "You made several points, but I disagree with one of them therefor the entire thing is invalid and that makes me right!" I will address whatever part of a post I see fit to address. The rest of your post was just as nonsensical. Ergo unworthy of a reply. Edited October 23, 2013 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glowrod Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 I will address whatever part of a post I see fit to address. The rest of your post was just as nonsensical. Ergo unworthy of a reply. It sounds to me like that means you have no arguement. That means that I'm right and you're wrong. Now that we have that settled... /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestXv Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 It sounds to me like that means you have no arguement. That means that I'm right and you're wrong. Now that we have that settled... /thread I hate to say it although I don't know why I hate to say it but I agree with mr muffin on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 It sounds to me like that means you have no arguement. That means that I'm right and you're wrong. Let me summarize the only cogent point against AC change (aside from technical and/or resource issues, which as I said are always good reasons to not do something): you don't like it. As I stated, that's fair enough, as far as it goes. But, you know, if they added it and you didn't like it, there would be an easy solution: don't use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 I hate to say it although I don't know why I hate to say it but I agree with mr muffin on this. It's ok, I feel the same way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceCorporalDan Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 This is still going? I can't honestly see BW doing this at any point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowrouge Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 (edited) Class change is NOT the same as AC change in this game. why? stories. stories and companions. Ac is your class specialization. NOT different class. there is a world of difference between sage healer and sage dps as well. and yet switching is allowed. in other words? you are using logical fallacy on top of logical fallacy. I have learn to not care. Give them AC change or don't. But what does AC mean. Advanced CLASS. So it is in an essence a class. But if it is allowed I ask for one thing and one thing only. Give them a tag that says they have switched AC. That way those that are apposed to it can CHOSE as is their choice to not group with them. All problems now solved. You dont have to worry about NINJA looting for their new AC and you dont have to worry about them not knowing what they are doing. Sure going to make queues longer and such but hey its a solution. And on the not of stories. Once you hit max level YOUR class story is no longer relevant. Its now only a companion issue. Eddit for comment Edited October 23, 2013 by shadowrouge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 I have learn to not care. Give them AC change or don't. But what does AC mean. Advanced CLASS. So it is in an essence a class. No, it is not a class, it is an advanced class, thus the name. Each AC shares the same set of base class skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowrouge Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 No, it is not a class, it is an advanced class, thus the name. Each AC shares the same set of base class skills. Base skills yes, talent trees one. And BW has since before launch said AC is a CLASS. So what we say or think doesnt matter. BW says its a class there for it is a class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Base skills yes, talent trees one. And BW has since before launch said AC is a CLASS. So what we say or think doesnt matter. BW says its a class there for it is a class. They also said this game wouldn't be F2P...remember that? They went so far as to mock F2P games. Ironic huh? Also...read page 1 of this thread... Quote: Originally Posted by Dulfy and Damion Schubert 18. Will be there any faction or Advanced Class change option available for purchase in the future? We have had serious talks recently about offering an Advanced Class change option – I think that one will likely happen eventually. Species is likely as well. Doing a faction switch is considerably more difficult for us, though, due to the various quest flags set throughout the level up process, so this isn’t on the horizon anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowrouge Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 (edited) They also said this game wouldn't be F2P...remember that? They went so far as to mock F2P games. Ironic huh? Also...read page 1 of this thread... Actually if you watch most of the videos they later said they wanted it to be F2P it was just not possible at the start. And as I said I am not for nor against AC changing. BW will do what they want to do. Just give the AC switch a tag and every ones concerns can vanish. You see the tag and dont want to run with an AC swtich, dump group. Now wait for another problem solved if you ask me. Edited October 23, 2013 by shadowrouge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Base skills yes, talent trees one. And BW has since before launch said AC is a CLASS. So what we say or think doesnt matter. BW says its a class there for it is a class. And if and when they say we can change ACs, we can change ACs. "It's always been this way" is never a good enough reason not to change something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorstram Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Actually if you watch most of the videos they later said they wanted it to be F2P it was just not possible at the start. That is what they call back peddling, or in the case of politics, Flip-Flopping. They needed to drum up support for the game going F2P, so they said, "Well in all actuality, we wanted this from the start," that way no one would remember that they made light of F2P games to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorstram Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 And if and when they say we can change ACs, we can change ACs. "It's always been this way" is never a good enough reason not to change something. This is true, status quo really isn't an argument, even though without it, conservatism wouldn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Actually if you watch most of the videos they later said they wanted it to be F2P it was just not possible at the start. LOL! Uh...yeah...no chance. This game cost 100-300 MILLION dollars...I'm pretty sure if they wanted to build it as F2P, they could have. Hell, after launch flopped it took them less than 8 months to make it F2P. Here is what they thought PRE-launch: BioWare docs defend subscription model, tease free-to-play iteration of classic IP "You look at the online space in general and it's fragmenting into all these different areas, but the core still works. The subscription model still works. We know a lot of people say, 'Oh, everything's just going free-to-play.' But that's just one slice. There's one slice that's free-to-play, there's one slice that's social, there's traditional subscription still going. It's obviously been the free-to-play guys trumpeting this" The idea that free-to-play will take over all other MMO business models, he said is, "from a business perspective, ridiculous." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelbun Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Never I hope. Although I would be in favor of a system like in TSW. Have a "wheel" like they have but for each Class, not a one toon to play every style. At least not in this game. It works well for TSW but I like the differences' between the classes in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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