ETA on Advanced Class change?

[jcopeland]

Time, is one of the reasons NOT to do it. This game is meant to be played over 2-5 years+ so saying you don't have "time" really isn't valid. I know people who love playing specific classes and have spun multiples of each (Shadow DPS, a shadow tank, AND a sage). Just because I know how to play a sentinel DPS does NOT mean I can simply jump into a guardian tank at lvl 55 and be even remotely productive considering I will have no gear, no concept of how to play the class, and will more likely be a hindrance rather than a help.

 

Going from a say a shadow tank to a sage healer (or vice versa) would be just as bad, as would commando to vanguard. Unless you feel you can be productive as a tank in crit/surge or a healer with mitigation. And also having NONE of the appropriate weapons, vanguard with an assault cannon doesn't really make much sense.

 

I don't know if you are being purposely obtuse or if you are seriously having problems grasping the concept of multiple gear sets?

 

In other popular MMO's, carrying around at least 2 gear sets is the norm as is the ability to easily swap between tank to dps to heals. This is good for the game, I don't understand why people see it as not being good. Guild raid night. Crap, we are short a healer guys, and we have one too many tanks. One of you want to switch to heals for the night, or should we sit one and pug a heals?

[DOHboy]

I don't know if you are being purposely obtuse or if you are seriously having problems grasping the concept of multiple gear sets?

 

In other popular MMO's, carrying around at least 2 gear sets is the norm as is the ability to easily swap between tank to dps to heals. This is good for the game, I don't understand why people see it as not being good. Guild raid night. Crap, we are short a healer guys, and we have one too many tanks. One of you want to switch to heals for the night, or should we sit one and pug a heals?

 

well let me swap and i'll log off my DPS and log in on my healer..

 

/thread

[Andryah]

In other popular MMO's, carrying around at least 2 gear sets is the norm as is the ability to easily swap between tank to dps to heals. This is good for the game...

 

You are projecting your personal views and dictating that it is universally good for the game.

 

It's neither good, nor bad, for the game per se. For some players it's seen as a good thing.

 

So with that in mind... maybe back off the insults you made toward DOHboy IMO. He is not required to agree with you, and insulting him won't help encourage him to do so.

 

Besides, it does not matter what is done in other MMOs. It an over used premise with no objective basis to dictate what the devs do/do-not do in any other MMO. That's like saying SWTOR has adaptive and moddable armor... SO other MMOs MUST AS WELL. It's a false premise. There is a reason MMOs are different.... because different players have different interests/needs/wants. Go play one of those MMOs if "morph on the fly" is so important to you, IMO.

Edited October 23, 2013 by Andryah

[gorstram]

The devs have already indicated that the AC choice at level 10 is meant to be a meaningful and impacting choice. Allowing willy nilly A/C changes (like a dual or tri-spec option) makes this choice pointless. Additionally, current gear rolling in FPs and Operations (especially in PuGs) would become a nightmare with people rolling need on EVERYTHING because they could use it in one of their six different specs.

 

The only time an A/C change should be allowed is if it is a cartel unlock, cost something like 3300 coins, and was so impacting that it reset all affections, crew skills, valor, and social rankings.

 

Edit: Oh and if you change to an A/C with incompatible armor, all of it goes red.

Edited October 23, 2013 by gorstram

[branmakmuffin]

The devs have already indicated that the AC choice at level 10 is meant to be a meaningful and impacting choice. Allowing willy nilly A/C changes

"Willy-nilly." If it ever happened, you can bet it would have a fairly hefty CC price tag, thus preventing such horrors.

 

Some of you lose sight of the fact that TOR is just a game, meant to be played for fun. If AC change increases fun, it's a good thing (technical or resource issues aside, which are always good reasons to not do something).

 

As stated endlessly, if I change my character's AC, that has no affect on you whatsoever. IOW, mind your own business.

[Andryah]

As stated endlessly, if I change my character's AC, that has no affect on you whatsoever. IOW, mind your own business.

 

True for you as an individual, but not really true for the game player base in general. Why? Because other players would start demanding/dictating other players change AC on a per group/encounter basis. We have enough "preconditions" assessed by players upon players as it is. We don't need more of them.

 

If all the feature did was give a player more individual freedom.. fine. But we both know that's not how MMO community operates.

Edited October 23, 2013 by Andryah

[gorstram]

"Willy-nilly." If it ever happened, you can bet it would have a fairly hefty CC price tag, thus preventing such horrors.

 

Some of you lose sight of the fact that TOR is just a game, meant to be played for fun. If AC change increases fun, it's a good thing (technical or resource issues aside, which are always good reasons to not do something).

 

As stated endlessly, if I change my character's AC, that has no affect on you whatsoever. IOW, mind your own business.

 

Selective quoting doesn't make your opinion right. I went on to indicate HOW your A/C change would affect me, so it is now upon you to alleviate that concern so that I may agree with you.

[branmakmuffin]

Selective quoting doesn't make your opinion right. I went on to indicate HOW your A/C change would affect me,

No, you illustrated how you claim my AC change would affect you (which is why I didn't bother to quote it). Really the only way it affects you is that you let it bother you.

 

True for you as an individual, but tot really true for the game player base in general. Why? Because other players would start demanding/dictating other players change AC on a per group/encounter basis. We have enough "preconditions" assessed by players upon players as it is. We don't need more of them.

 

If all the feature did was give a player more individual freedom.. fine. But we both know that's not how MMO community operates.

Other players making unreasonable demands is a "Who cares?" issue. Seriously, if it AC change were added and if it cost say something like 1000 CC, no one is seriously going to say "We demand you switch to Juggernaut so you can tank."

Edited October 23, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[Andryah]

Other players making unreasonable demands is a "Who cares?" issue.

 

I disagree. It injects unneeded negative social behaviors and pressures within the server community. Same as Addons do.

 

It does not affect me personally, since I don't involve myself in PUGS.. where most of this nonsense takes place, but it does have a generally negative affect.

 

My point being.. that even changes to the game that appear to be strictly QoL.. need careful consideration as to unwanted consequences. AC class change is one that will have unwanted consequences in community player behavior.

Edited October 23, 2013 by Andryah

[branmakmuffin]

I disagree.

Noted.

[gorstram]

No, you illustrated how you claim my AC change would affect you (which is why I didn't bother to quote it). Really the only way it affects you is that you let it bother you.

 

Well Bran, you're right. However, since you aren't the only one who plays this game, I do need to worry about it because while you might be innocuous, I can think of a few thousand other monkeys who aren't, and rational self-interest dictates that I continue object to this until my interests (and others who share those interests) are entertained.

 

Until then, may your alts be plentiful

[branmakmuffin]

Well Bran, you're right. However, since you aren't the only one who plays this game, I do need to worry about it because while you might be innocuous, I can think of a few thousand other monkeys who aren't, and rational self-interest dictates that I continue object to this until my interests (and others who share those interests) are entertained.

You don't need to worry about anything re: this game. If a game worries you, probably best to not play it.

[Jeweledleah]

The devs have already indicated that the AC choice at level 10 is meant to be a meaningful and impacting choice. Allowing willy nilly A/C changes (like a dual or tri-spec option) makes this choice pointless. Additionally, current gear rolling in FPs and Operations (especially in PuGs) would become a nightmare with people rolling need on EVERYTHING because they could use it in one of their six different specs.

 

The only time an A/C change should be allowed is if it is a cartel unlock, cost something like 3300 coins, and was so impacting that it reset all affections, crew skills, valor, and social rankings.

 

Edit: Oh and if you change to an A/C with incompatible armor, all of it goes red.

 

why should it reset affection, crew skills, valor and social ranks? none of those things have ANYTHING to do with what AC you are playing. this is one of those "I basically don't want this to happen, so the only way I'll allow this to happen if its completely and fully not worth it"

 

as for gear rolling. due to legacy armor and companions, people are already rolling on all possible specs as well as gear that doesn't even have stats their current character can use.

in my guild we actually have loot rules that account for it. your current spec that you are in a raid with - takes precedence over everything else, but there are still offspec rolls, and alt rolls and companion rolls allowed.

ability to change AC will not change that.

 

as for "I'll just relog and switch characters" it may work for some (heck, it works for me currently, because I'm a person with strong case of altatis).. people who actually have characters to switch to. but not everyone has alts or wants alts.

 

see, it doesn't matter what other games do. in THIS game, you have 4 classes per faction, 4 stories per faction, 4 sets of companions per faction. how your story goes is independant from your AC, your companion interactions are influenced by gender of your character, not their AC, your main stat is shared over 2 AC's, some of the abilities are shared, in most cases even armor rating is shared (only exception being Sith warrior/jedi knight). even talent trees are shared to a degree.

 

AC is a mechanical choice. nothing more nothing less. and if you can learn 3 different play styles tied to 3 different talent trees... if you can learn to play a variety of characters? then you can learn new AC with no issues.

 

honestly? I don't personally care too much if it gets implemented or not. I already have alts for every AC in a game. in some cases, one per AC mirror for both factions (inquisitor/consular and agent/smuggler). even if AC change gets implemented, I don't see myself using it. I just don't think its nearly as gamebreaking as some of you claim it is, and it could be a nice addition and quality of life improvement to the game.

 

P.S. on pressure from pugs. I see plenty of sorcs who dps, and a few who dps with madness. in pugs. I see operatives who only dps, dps assassins, dps juggs and powertechs (I've been mostly playing empire lately, but my experiences on pubside were similar), I've done that myself, pugged as dps, even though my healing gear/spec were better and more familiar to me - simply because I didn't feel like healing at the time and was willing to wait for a group.

 

not once was I told to change. not once have I seen people demand someone else to respec. so... why would it be ANY different with AC change?

Edited October 23, 2013 by Jeweledleah

[gorstram]

You don't need to worry about anything re: this game. If a game worries you, probably best to not play it.

 

Considering that this game is my hobby, and I spend a fair amount of time in it, I will worry about stuff due to the time spent. Which segues nicely into the fact that if I spend a few hours in a PuG operation, and some A/C swapper comes in and rolls need on all of the tanking gear on their marauder because they A/C swap a lot into juggernaut, then that is a problem.

[gorstram]

why should it reset affection, crew skills, valor and social ranks? none of those things have ANYTHING to do with what AC you are playing. this is one of those "I basically don't want this to happen, so the only way I'll allow this to happen if its completely and fully not worth it".

 

It doesn't have to, I was giving examples on how to make an A/C swap a rare and impacting choice.

[TUXs]

"Willy-nilly." If it ever happened, you can bet it would have a fairly hefty CC price tag, thus preventing such horrors.

 

Some of you lose sight of the fact that TOR is just a game, meant to be played for fun. If AC change increases fun, it's a good thing (technical or resource issues aside, which are always good reasons to not do something).

 

As stated endlessly, if I change my character's AC, that has no affect on you whatsoever. IOW, mind your own business.

 

Perfectly said Bran!!! And we seldom agree

 

There's NO valid reason anyone has put forth as to why this would be a bad thing in ANY form. This would be GOOD for the game. "I" wouldn't use it, but I see no reason not to allow it to encourage player retention.

[TUXs]

Which segues nicely into the fact that if I spend a few hours in a PuG operation, and some A/C swapper comes in and rolls need on all of the tanking gear on their marauder because they A/C swap a lot into juggernaut, then that is a problem.

 

Roll need yourself - problem averted.

[Jeweledleah]

It doesn't have to, I was giving examples on how to make an A/C swap a rare and impacting choice.

 

I don't know.. sounded more like "how to make it completely undesirable" choice.

 

limiting it to once a month (or to say 2 times per character - and then never again) would make it an impactful choice. even charging a lot of cartel coins would make it an impactful choice. resetting character development that has NOTHING to do with your AC is just passive aggressive.

[branmakmuffin]

Considering that this game is my hobby, and I spend a fair amount of time in it, I will worry about stuff due to the time spent.

Your time, your worry, your choice. In the end, irrelevant to everyone but you. Thus your opposition boils down to "I don't it because I don't like it," which is fair enough as far as it goes.

Edited October 23, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[TUXs]

I don't know.. sounded more like "how to make it completely undesirable" choice.

 

limiting it to once a month (or to say 2 times per character - and then never again) would make it an impactful choice. even charging a lot of cartel coins would make it an impactful choice. resetting character development that has NOTHING to do with your AC is just passive aggressive.

 

Agreed. I'm 100% in favor of Cartel Coins being associated with this swap. I don't want it being used daily like I swap AC trees, but I see no reason NOT to allow it (for a price).

[gorstram]

Roll need yourself - problem averted.

 

That's a given. My biggest issue with the A/C change is not the change itself, but the impact it has on gear drops. Specifically PuGs. It's an area already rife with idiots, the concern is those who would abuse it. I'm not concerned with you or Bran, it's the other soft children out there who may or may not A/C change who are in effect stealing gear from someone who DOESN'T want an A/C change, who picked the correct class out of the gate, losing gear to someone who became wishy-washy about their toon choice,. Now please keep in mind, I'm talking about actual main rolling, not house-rules regarding alt or companion rolls.

Edited October 23, 2013 by gorstram

[branmakmuffin]

That's a given. My biggest issue with the A/C change is not the change itself, but the impact it has on gear drops. Specifically PuGs. It's an area already rife with idiots, the concern is those who would abuse it. I'm not concerned with you or Bran, it's the other soft children out there who may or may not A/C change who are in effect stealing gear from someone who DOESN'T want an A/C change, who picked the correct class out of the gate, losing gear to someone who became wishy-washy about their toon choice,. Now please keep in mind, I'm talking about actual main rolling, not house-rules regarding alt or companion rolls.

People justify rolling "Need" for alts and companions already. Adding AC change would not make this problem any worse. Like all loot rolling rules, all that is required is communication: "So we're all agreed 'Need' is for current AC only, right?"

[TUXs]

That's a given. My biggest issue with the A/C change is not the change itself, but the impact it has on gear drops. Specifically PuGs. It's an area already rife with idiots, the concern is those who would abuse it. I'm not concerned with you or Bran, it's the other soft children out there who may or may not A/C change who are in effect stealing gear from someone who DOESN'T want an A/C change, who picked the correct class out of the gate, losing gear to someone who became wishy-washy about their toon choice,. Now please keep in mind, I'm talking about actual main rolling, not house-rules regarding alt or companion rolls.

 

Oh come on lol, just add them to your ignore list and you NEVER need to worry about grouping with them again in a GF PuG. The ability to swap AC's doesn't increase the chances that a normal player will become a d-bag. Those who would abuse it, already do...nothing changes.

[renegadeimp]

Whats needed is a loot system overhaul. If you cant use the item, you dont get to roll on it unless its a green or BOE blue/purple. If its BoP gear then the new loot rules come into play.

[branmakmuffin]

So much of the opposition is based on what in my opinion seems a totally erroneous assumption, namely that AC change, if added, would be as easy as spec swap.