ETA on Advanced Class change?

[astrobearx]

You can ignore this all you want, but according to the devs, AC's are DIFFERENT classes.

 

 

im not ignoring anything. on the swtor site, it classified the bounty hunter as the main class and THEN classified its ACs as subset classes.

 

 

a merc is still a bounty hunter

a powertech is still a bounty hunter

the game refers to the players as bounty hunter

the game acknowledge the player as a bounty hunter, not by its AC

 

BOUNTY HUNTER IS THE CLASSES

 

 

as for the Devs post...let be real here, the DEvs said ALOT of things that wasnt really the truth. makeb? a formerly a patch turn expansion?the CE vendor being updated regularly which only started to happen and even then it only like one item per patch. cathar was supposed to be a high level legacy reward. although the Devs are the word of god on this game, they word is so unreliable. my guess is the same as other players on this thread that said that the devs only said what they said because they chose to shortcut the classes by making 2 on of a certain type of AC on a specific class for each faction. it is totally clear that some ACs were meant to be faction based instead how it is now e.g. imperial agent/ sith inquisitor and smuggler/jedi consular. it always bother me why a smuggler and jedi consular have a stealth class. it is pretty clear that the sith assassin and imperial operative are the real holders of these classes as it fit too well and its is even my glaring that the the long range turret class was supposed to be for the smuggler and the healing class is supposed to be the consular as they storylines reflect this.perhaps it would have been better if we started with the class REAL AC and then unlock later via different faction, but oh well.

 

 

back to the point,THE GAME say the ACs of a BH are just a subclass,sometime totally not necessary to even to complete the bounty hunter story line.

Edited August 3, 2013 by astrobearx

[Ratajack]

im not ignoring anything. on the swtor site, it classified the bounty hunter as the main class and THEN classified its ACs as subset classes.

 

 

a merc is still a bounty hunter

a powertech is still a bounty hunter

the game refers to the players as bounty hunter

the game acknowledge the player as a bounty hunter, not by its AC

 

BOUNTY HUNTER IS THE CLASSES

 

 

as for the Devs post...let be real here, the DEvs said ALOT of things that wasnt really the truth. makeb? a formerly a patch turn expansion?the CE vendor being updated regularly which only started to happen and even then it only like one item per patch. cathar was supposed to be a high level legacy reward. although the Devs are the word of god on this game, they word is so unreliable. my guess is the same as other players on this thread that said that the devs only said what they said because they chose to shortcut the classes by making 2 on of a certain type of AC on a specific class for each faction. it is totally clear that some ACs were meant to be faction based instead how it is now e.g. imperial agent/ sith inquisitor and smuggler/jedi consular. it always bother me why a smuggler and jedi consular have a stealth class. it is pretty clear that the sith assassin and imperial operative are the real holders of these classes as it fit too well and its is even my glaring that the the long range turret class was supposed to be for the smuggler and the healing class is supposed to be the consular as they storylines reflect this.perhaps it would have been better if we started with the class REAL AC and then unlock later via different faction, but oh well.

 

 

back to the point,THE GAME say the ACs of a BH are just a subclass,sometime totally not necessary to even to complete the bounty hunter story line.

 

Check your guild roster and see how many of your guildies have the class "bounty hunter". I will bet you that most, if not all, of your guildmates with the class "bounty hunter" are below level 10. Now, how many of your guildmates have the class "powertech" or "mercenary"?

 

Why does your guild roster, a /who or even selecting another player show their CLASS as their AC? That would be because your AC IS your CLASS, as stated by the devs.

[Ratajack]

im not ignoring anything. on the swtor site, it classified the bounty hunter as the main class and THEN classified its ACs as subset classes.

 

 

a merc is still a bounty hunter

a powertech is still a bounty hunter

the game refers to the players as bounty hunter

the game acknowledge the player as a bounty hunter, not by its AC

 

BOUNTY HUNTER IS THE CLASSES

 

 

as for the Devs post...let be real here, the DEvs said ALOT of things that wasnt really the truth. makeb? a formerly a patch turn expansion?the CE vendor being updated regularly which only started to happen and even then it only like one item per patch. cathar was supposed to be a high level legacy reward. although the Devs are the word of god on this game, they word is so unreliable. my guess is the same as other players on this thread that said that the devs only said what they said because they chose to shortcut the classes by making 2 on of a certain type of AC on a specific class for each faction. it is totally clear that some ACs were meant to be faction based instead how it is now e.g. imperial agent/ sith inquisitor and smuggler/jedi consular. it always bother me why a smuggler and jedi consular have a stealth class. it is pretty clear that the sith assassin and imperial operative are the real holders of these classes as it fit too well and its is even my glaring that the the long range turret class was supposed to be for the smuggler and the healing class is supposed to be the consular as they storylines reflect this.perhaps it would have been better if we started with the class REAL AC and then unlock later via different faction, but oh well.

 

 

back to the point,THE GAME say the ACs of a BH are just a subclass,sometime totally not necessary to even to complete the bounty hunter story line.

 

 

Since the devs' words are so unreliable, I guess that statement from November 2012 that AC changes would "likely happen" at some undetermined point in the future must be a lie also. That would mean that all of those posters who want to change their class and use that quote as a justification have no leg on which to stand.

[branmakmuffin]

Since the devs' words are so unreliable, I guess that statement from November 2012 that AC changes would "likely happen" at some undetermined point in the future must be a lie also. That would mean that all of those posters who want to change their class and use that quote as a justification have no leg on which to stand.

You really are desperate to find justification for telling others how they should (and should not) play the game and spend their CCs.

[astrobearx]

Since the devs' words are so unreliable, I guess that statement from November 2012 that AC changes would "likely happen" at some undetermined point in the future must be a lie also. That would mean that all of those posters who want to change their class and use that quote as a justification have no leg on which to stand.

 

lol missed the point of my post, but ironically yes and it is the reason why i havent posted on this thread anymore much.the devs word is totally unreliable and everyone who uses the devs quotes that they said that AC probably will come is as equally as wrong as your post of them stating AC is a proper class by using it as a form of absolutism

 

however, this doesnt invalidate their opinion at all. they are advocating change and bought plenty of reasonable reasons to allow (as well as the anti AC up to page 60 , that when both sides went into full retard mode and lesser the legitimate claim into petty childish "because i say so" drama)

 

my point here is, there are plenty of reasons to (dis)allow AC change;however, using the DEVs (who is gone along with the game original design BTW) word over what the ACTUAL GAME classified as the main classes and subclasses is as another forum member say "weak sauce IMO"

Edited August 3, 2013 by astrobearx

[LordArtemis]

The issue is not whether or not AC is a class.

 

People seem to think that making sure it is defined as a class would put this discussion to bed. Do you really think that is going to work? Has it worked so far?

 

Whether or not it is a class is irrelevant (unfortunately)....because it is chosen at level 10, which is just plain silly IMO.

 

It is a second class OR role choice, whichever you choose, at level 10. That right there opens it up to this kind of diatribe. This is Bioware's doing...not lazy players, not players that want to force playstyles on others...Bioware.

 

Only Bioware can correct this obvious blunder IMO.

 

They either need to allow AC change to define it as it was originally designed...a half-baked attempt at creating diversity and offering more classes with less development cost when it really turned out to be a specialization only, or do away with ALL this silliness and just have you choose your CLASS...which is what the AC should have been from the beginning....at level 1.

 

They can leave trooper as your chosen PATH. Then have you choose commando or vanguard right from character creation.

 

There is no need to change the abilities involved....levels 1-10 are "basic training" for your class, then you "graduate" into your class at level 10.

 

And there you go. Problem solved IMO.

[PeterTLJr]

Powertech and Mercenary are DIFFERENT classes. You could classify bounty hunter as a class, but that makes powertech and mercenary no less there own SEPARATE classes.

 

That is according to the devs, not just my spin. If you doubt me, go back and read the thread. The links to the devs quote have been posted.

 

Your confused. They are different advance classes. You continue to confuse AC with class.

[Ratajack]

Your confused. They are different advance classes. You continue to confuse AC with class.

 

You continue to ignore the devs own statements:

 

You can ignore this all you want, but according to the devs, AC's are DIFFERENT classes.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Erickson

 

"The advanced class system exists because we’re already making the game story-wise bigger than every other game we’ve done put together. We pretty topped out at eight. It’s already huge and ridiculous, but for an MMOG, we wanted more classes than that for a variety of gameplay. Each of the advanced classes is basically a full class that we would have done."

 

 

Originally Posted by Daniel Erickson

"We had alot of internal debate whether to release the advanced classes, and people need to understand they are "works in progress". We have a very complicated class system. The advanced classes are TOTAL class systems by themselves. You can't think of other games where you have little offshoots.

Obviously, the ideal is that people don't ever need to respec their Advanced Class. There are additional measures we are putting in place to improve the communication about that choice to the player before it happens. Ideally, we would also allow you to 'test drive' the AC , but that's fairly expensive and unlikely to happen. It's more likely that we stick with a short period (a few levels) during which you can change your AC class for a credit cost before it locks in. We might attach other limiters than just credits (e.g completely disable the option past level 20 instead of a very high cost of credits.). That's what testing will determine."

 

 

 

A few things from our point of view (the devs):

 

"Your Advanced Class choice very much defines how your character plays from the moment you choose it. Their impact is more akin to that of a different class in other MMOs than that of a different 'spec'. A Sith Sorcerer is very, very different from a Sith Assassin.

 

 

As mentioned before, the ability to respec your skills is definitely in the game. At this point, it costs credits but has no other requirements or limitations. The exact cost will be fine tuned, probably until ship, in conjunction with the rest of the economy - so giving precise numbers at this point isn't helpful.

 

 

We haven't made up our mind yet about the availability of an Advanced Class respec. We are evaluating all options (no Advanced Class respec, fixed cost respec, respec cost increasing with level, etc.).

A lot of thought currently goes into the consequences of Advanced Class respec - if we allow it, it will require players to relearn their entire approach to combat (which they learned over many many hours before) and replace the majority of their equipment, so it's not a thing we would want the player to do lightly, or just out of curiosity.

Ultimately, testing will tell us what we'll go with for launch, but even then - MMOs change, new content is added, player preferences emerge and change, so this is likely one of those topics we will be frequently discussing even after launch to ensure the design matches the expectations of our players and does not introduce unwelcome side effects.

 

With all this said - thank you very much for your continued feedback and thoughts on the topic. We are actively reading and discussing the topic frequently."

 

Do you think that you know more than the devs?

Edited August 3, 2013 by Ratajack

[PeterTLJr]

You do not want to debate. If you truly wanted to "debate", you would take the time to read this thread and find the reasons that he, and others, have posted countless times describing why allowing class changes could negatively impact the game and should not be allowed.

 

Your refusal to go back and read this thread to see the reasons that have been posted countless times falls into the category of LAZY, which considering the source, does not surprise me.

 

I have read this thread many times. No one is right or wrong were all simply debating why or why not. Judging by your posts, your not here to debate, your here to put others down because they dont agree with you. Were not lazy, we are trying to explain why this feature would be beneficial to the game. Did you know you can have a discussion without calling others names? Try it sometime.

[PeterTLJr]

You continue to ignore the devs own statements:

 

 

 

Do you think that you know more than the devs?

 

Is daniel erickson still here?

[Savej]

But back OT:

 

The argument that they share primary stats is way off base.

 

DPS:

Primary Stat: STR, AIM, CUN, WILL

Next: PWR

Next: CRIT

Next SUR

 

Heal:

Primary Stat: STR, AIM, CUN, WILL

Next: PWR

Next: CRIT

Next SUR

 

Tank:

Primary Stat: ENDURANCE (Note how that is not STR, AIM, CUN, WILL)

((In no particular order to keep from having a tank stat fight))

Defense (Note how that is not PWR)

Shield (Note how that is not CRIT)

Absorb (Note how that is not SUR).

 

 

So, by logic given in this thread. DPS/Heal should be interchangeable based on stat allocation, and they are.

 

Many advanced classes can already switch between dps and tank or dps and heal. Enumerating the differences between the parts of the trinity is irrelevant. Saying "but people shouldn't be able to swap roles ever" is also irrelevant because that functionality has existed since day 1. The stats are the same between the advanced classes and most of the gear is, also (my guardian, marauder and sentinels have often swapped entire legacy sets). Interestingly, most, if not all, of the arguments I've seen against allowing AC swapping so far would apply equally against allowing the respecs we have now (switching from Vigilance guardian to Focus guardian for example) and that is as close to proof that the naysayers are wrong as I can provide. Respecs have not destroyed this or any game I'm aware of. I would guess that almost everyone with a bit of experience has used them at least a few times, actually.

 

Devs didn't intend to allow AC swapping?

(5:20) Edited August 3, 2013 by Savej

[Ratajack]

I have read this thread many times. No one is right or wrong were all simply debating why or why not. Judging by your posts, your not here to debate, your here to put others down because they dont agree with you. Were not lazy, we are trying to explain why this feature would be beneficial to the game. Did you know you can have a discussion without calling others names? Try it sometime.

 

Those opposed to allowing class changes have explained many times why allowing class changes would not be beneficial to this game.

 

Those opposed to allowing class changes are NOT asking for an existing game mechanic to be changed. Those opposed to allowing class changes are willing to put forth the time and minimal effort required to play that new class. Can you say the same for those wanting to be able to change their class?

[Ratajack]

Is daniel erickson still here?

 

Have ANY of the devs EVER said anything to contradict those statements regarding AC being different classes?

[branmakmuffin]

Those opposed to allowing class changes have explained many times why allowing class changes would not be beneficial to this game.

No, they have explained many times why it annoys them personally.

[Ratajack]

Many advanced classes can already switch between dps and tank or dps and heal. Enumerating the differences between the parts of the trinity is irrelevant. Saying "but people shouldn't be able to swap roles ever" is also irrelevant because that functionality has existed since day 1. The stats are the same between the advanced classes and most of the gear is, also (my guardian, marauder and sentinels have often swapped entire legacy sets). Interestingly, most, if not all, of the arguments I've seen against allowing AC swapping so far would apply equally against allowing the respecs we have now (switching from Vigilance guardian to Focus guardian for example) and that is as close to proof that the naysayers are wrong as I can provide. Respecs have not destroyed this or any game I'm aware of. I would guess that almost everyone with a bit of experience has used them at least a few times, actually.

 

Devs didn't intend to allow AC swapping?

(5:20)

 

 

The devs decided long before this game was released that they would not allow class changes. This is why they went to such great lengths to make certain that every player knew their choice of AC was PERMANENT. Each and every player is advised no less than 4 times that their choice of AC is PERMANENT, and they have to click at least two confirmation boxes indicating they they know this choice is permanent and that they are certain they are selecting the choice they want.

 

The devs design and intent was to not allow a single character to fill all three roles, and they designed the classes (AC) such that no single class (AC) can fill all three roles. Allowing class changes would negate this design intent.

 

They can certainly change their minds again and allow class changes, but they are under no obligation to do so. The mechanic for playing that other AC already exists in game.

[PeterTLJr]

The devs decided long before this game was released that they would not allow class changes. This is why they went to such great lengths to make certain that every player knew their choice of AC was PERMANENT. Each and every player is advised no less than 4 times that their choice of AC is PERMANENT, and they have to click at least two confirmation boxes indicating they they know this choice is permanent and that they are certain they are selecting the choice they want.

 

The devs design and intent was to not allow a single character to fill all three roles, and they designed the classes (AC) such that no single class (AC) can fill all three roles. Allowing class changes would negate this design intent.

 

They can certainly change their minds again and allow class changes, but they are under no obligation to do so. The mechanic for playing that other AC already exists in game.

 

Glad to know we have someone in this discussion that knows the devs intentions.

[branmakmuffin]

They can certainly change their minds again and allow class changes, but they are under no obligation to do so. The mechanic for playing that other AC already exists in game.

That's a nice straw man you've created, there.

[astrobearx]

Glad to know we have someone in this discussion that knows the devs intentions.

lol exactly what i was thinking.

[Ratajack]

Glad to know we have someone in this discussion that knows the devs intentions.

 

It's amazing what one can learn when one pays attention to the devs statements and does not just dismiss them because they do not mesh with their desires.

[Grayseven]

It's amazing what one can learn when one pays attention to the devs statements and does not just dismiss them because they do not mesh with their desires.

 

It's even more amazing what one can learn when one pays attention to all of the dev's statements, instead of dismissing the ones that don't mesh with their desires...

[TUXs]

Nope, if I were to switch ACs, it wouldnt affect you at all.

 

This This is the bottom line. People need to mind their own business and not worry so much about what others are doing. I mean seriously...this impacts those of you who are so concerned about it 0%!!!! Let it go.

 

Again, MMOs are fluid enough that there's no reason this shouldn't be the norm in the industry. There's NO rational reason not to allow it. Nobody has presented even ONE valid reason that allowing this would be a negative to the game or the community.

[LanceCorporalDan]

I guess people failed to read where "this choice is permanent!"

[Ratajack]

It's even more amazing what one can learn when one pays attention to all of the dev's statements, instead of dismissing the ones that don't mesh with their desires...

 

Kindly point out exactly which statements I am dismissing.

[PeterTLJr]

I guess people failed to read where "this choice is permanent!"

 

Nothing in a game is permanent.

[TUXs]

No, they have explained many times why it annoys them personally.

 

Exactly lol