ETA on Advanced Class change?

[LordArtemis]

Ok, fine.

 

I will then repost the list of suggestions for folks to discuss.

 

Current list, pros and cons as reported by participants.

 

 

Option 1

Level 10 to 15 - Allow AC Change - max 2 changes allowed - reduction to level 10 with change - 24 hour cooldown - once you reach level 16 AC is permanent - everything except XP and quests are unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 2

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - max 1 change allowed - reduction to level 10 with change - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything except XP and quests are unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 3

 

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - max 2 changes allowed - no reduction in level - one month cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 4

 

Level 10 to 30 - Allow AC Change - max 1 change allowed - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 5

Level 10 to 46 - Allow AC Change - no maximum changes, can change at will up to 46 - no reduction in level - no cooldown - once you reach level 47 AC is permanent - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 6

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - no maximum changes, can change at will - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 7

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - no maximum changes, can change at will - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - Must level one character to max level in an AC to unlock legacy ability to switch AC for that class - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 8

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - maximum 8 changes per account, can change at will - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 9

 

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - no maximum number of changes - must change at AC trainers on fleet - 1 Week cooldown - Option for AC change unlocked as Character Perk for 600 cartel Coins (or 1.5 million credits) - Each subsequent AC change costs 40 cartel coins (or 100,000 credits).

 

Option 10

 

Level 40 to 55 - Allow AC Change - max 1 change allowed - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

 

Option 11

 

No AC change allowed.

 

 

 

And this is the pro and con list as it stands right now. It is certainly open for more additions or corrections.

 

 

PROS

 

1. breathing life into characters that may have been abandoned and thus extending someone's stay in game, their enjoyment in game.

2. allowing people who only have fun playing through a story once - experiment with their character without having to suffer through the story they already know and aren't having fun replaying.

3. allowing people to keep using unique, no longer acquirable items, that include pets, speeders, crystals, armor shells, as well as legacy perk unlocks on a character they have grown attached to, while enjoying the game play style that works better for them, within the same archetype, rather than having to reroll from scratch and lose all the investment they made into a character.

4. making extra money for bioware by making ac switch purchasable with cartel coins.

 

CONS

 

1) I would expect that many folks are not going to react well to this change if implemented.

2) They flirted with the idea before launch, even talked about it publicly, but in the end decided not to allow it. At the time folks were pretty dead set against it. I don't think it's likely the current environment has changed much since then.

3) Some classes could end up underrepresented due to bad design. Right now some folks stick with an AC they choose because they would have to reroll and do not wish to do so I would guess.

4) If restrictions are not in place this could end up being abused or exploited.

5) This will likely further demean AC choice.

6) Could cause FOTM issues.

7) If late game AC change is allowed it could end up causing folks that have an AC but do not know how to properly play it running Raids and Operations, making an existing problem worse.

 

 

I am willing to begrudgingly support option 1, option 7 but would prefer option 11. The idea of option 7 has some appeal...you have to level an AC to max level to get a legacy unlock you can use to switch to that AC inside the class for another character account wide. That still give AC meaning IMO.

 

I still prefer no AC change, but I'm somewhat willing to support 1 and 7. I personally do not feel option 10 is a good idea as I think it would possibly have a negative impact on the game, more likely than an early change.

 

I would also add what I would like to see happen with respect to AC.

 

1) Bioware would come out and publicly state, in no uncertain terms, that AC IS YOUR CLASS.

 

2) Make AC choice mandatory at level 10, move all abilities under the AC heading in the abilities pane and remove the base class header, move all trainable abilities from that point forward under the AC header on the trainer.

 

3) Remove all references in the game to your base class that can be removed once you choose your AC.

 

4) Add a small quest line at max level that is AC specific, where they refer to your AC directly.

 

IMO this would make the choice more meaningful.

 

I do think, however, that Dual Spec would be fine.

 

Dual spec - Allowed when you choose your spec onward, but open use is only allowed after you conclude your class story.

 

Before your story conclusion dual spec would be restricted to use inside heroics, flashpoints, operations and warzones UNLESS the groupfinder tool allows you a free spec swap while qued to fill missing roles. It would be a permanent unlock feature, allowing you to save a particular setup...it saves point allocation and bar locations of specials but not gear setup. it would have a one hour cooldown, and would cost either EC or CC.

 

After conclusion of your storyline you are unlocked to spec swap any time you wish.

 

This does not remove the cost of respecing...only saves the spec loadouts, positions of abilities on action bars, etc....you can still choose to forgo the dual spec route and manually redeploy your points and abilities.

[astrobearx]

huh i find it funny that the same 4 ppl (well 3 now, but i assumed ratajack will smell the necro and jump in later) keep posting on this thread.

[LordArtemis]

huh i find it funny that the same 4 ppl (well 3 now, but i assumed ratajack will smell the necro and jump in later) keep posting on this thread.

 

If your including me, I was happy to let this die. I really didnt want to go round and round again.

[Savej]

It -seems- like a lot of people are against this but really it's just a few. But some of those few have each made hundreds of posts each in this thread alone and their hatred of the idea is profound. My guess is that a significant percentage of players, especially f2p with limited character slots and slower leveling speeds, would give this a whirl at least once.

 

People concerned with confused role swappers need look no further than Wow, a more successful game than this in possibly every imaginable way, to know that isn't a remotely game breaking issue. Wow has 3 classes that can do it all. I haven't heard anyone whine about that in many years.

 

Stories don't need to change at all, companions don't need to "freeze" or whatever. ACs share those.

 

Advanced class has some similarities with a full class choice but it also isn't one. AC is mostly a unique distinction to this game and it is not the same as picking a class. Every ac shares the same stats, energy mechanics, many basic abilities and most have the same gear outside of weapon/off-hand choices. Ac choice is far more like a spec change in Wow, for example. (where this game gives 5 or 6 choices, wow gives 3).

 

The fact is that not long before beta the producers of this game said AC swapping would be allowed; they weren't just thinking about it. Obviously they changed their minds, possibly because they didn't have time to implement or maybe the noisy few made a big fuss, not sure. The last dev quote I've heard was shortly after f2p went live said ac swapping was probably coming soon. I'm sure the amount of venom and trolling in this thread gave them pause.

 

Most of the people arguing against allowing AC swapping strike me as being the same ones that think giving ACs 0 weapon choices and forcing unique class progression gear looks are good ideas. My experience is that giving players more flexibility (outside of letting them do everything all at once) has always turned out to be a good thing and I doubt anyone can cite examples where a game took a hit for doing that.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Savej

[Roalmo]

PLEASE.....JUST STOP.

 

Really guys. Let this one sink back to the bottom of the pit. I'm begging you.

 

Agree completely.

[TUXs]

Option 9

 

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - no maximum number of changes - must change at AC trainers on fleet - 1 Week cooldown - Option for AC change unlocked as Character Perk for 600 cartel Coins (or 1.5 million credits) - Each subsequent AC change costs 40 cartel coins (or 100,000 credits).

 

 

And this is the pro and con list as it stands right now. It is certainly open for more additions or corrections.

 

CONS

 

1) I would expect that many folks are not going to react well to this change if implemented.

2) They flirted with the idea before launch, even talked about it publicly, but in the end decided not to allow it. At the time folks were pretty dead set against it. I don't think it's likely the current environment has changed much since then.

3) Some classes could end up underrepresented due to bad design. Right now some folks stick with an AC they choose because they would have to reroll and do not wish to do so I would guess.

4) If restrictions are not in place this could end up being abused or exploited.

5) This will likely further demean AC choice.

6) Could cause FOTM issues.

7) If late game AC change is allowed it could end up causing folks that have an AC but do not know how to properly play it running Raids and Operations, making an existing problem worse.

I like option 9!

 

And those cons are bs...

 

1) Many folks are nosy and like to prevent other people from doing anything they want - this is no excuse

2) They also mocked F2P games - times change and it's safe to say that SWTOR doesn't have the thriving population they thought it would

3) Sucks to be those classes. Hate the game, not the player

4) pfft...if there's an exploit, Bioware will fix it in a few weeks/months

5) This is a GAME...there's no harm caused by this

6) This is on Bioware, not the player...besides, it's FOTY...nothing happens quickly in Austim

7) BS - takes any player just a few days to "learn" at most

 

There's NO negative to allowing this. NONE! It should be allowed TODAY!

[Savej]

Agree completely.

 

You can always stop reading this thread... An ignore thread feature would be a good addition to these boards. But if people want to ramble, especially about topics with mixed dev signals, well, that's what this place is for.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Savej

[Technohic]

I don't really care too much as I have every AC, but it sure would be nice. If I get bored and want to do something different than I have been with my main, I could make a switch and not have to change gear all that drastically. Probably be some tweaks to make it optimal, but I could focus on just playing the game with people rather than re-grinding.

[branmakmuffin]

If your including me, I was happy to let this die. I really didnt want to go round and round again.

Which explains why you are posting in the thread again.

 

If you really wanted to let it die, you would.

 

The only reason this thread is still here is because players keep bringing this Necro thread back. while Bioware should shutdown Necro threads

And then of course people like you post in them to make sure they stay bumped.

Edited October 21, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[LordArtemis]

Which explains why you are posting in the thread again.

 

If you really wanted to let it die, you would.

 

....just like you did bran. Just like you did.

[Icebergy]

Ok, fine.

 

I will then repost the list of suggestions for folks to discuss.

 

Current list, pros and cons as reported by participants.

 

 

Option 1

Level 10 to 15 - Allow AC Change - max 2 changes allowed - reduction to level 10 with change - 24 hour cooldown - once you reach level 16 AC is permanent - everything except XP and quests are unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 2

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - max 1 change allowed - reduction to level 10 with change - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything except XP and quests are unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 3

 

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - max 2 changes allowed - no reduction in level - one month cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 4

 

Level 10 to 30 - Allow AC Change - max 1 change allowed - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 5

Level 10 to 46 - Allow AC Change - no maximum changes, can change at will up to 46 - no reduction in level - no cooldown - once you reach level 47 AC is permanent - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 6

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - no maximum changes, can change at will - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 7

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - no maximum changes, can change at will - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - Must level one character to max level in an AC to unlock legacy ability to switch AC for that class - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 8

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - maximum 8 changes per account, can change at will - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 9

 

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - no maximum number of changes - must change at AC trainers on fleet - 1 Week cooldown - Option for AC change unlocked as Character Perk for 600 cartel Coins (or 1.5 million credits) - Each subsequent AC change costs 40 cartel coins (or 100,000 credits).

 

Option 10

 

Level 40 to 55 - Allow AC Change - max 1 change allowed - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

 

Option 11

 

No AC change allowed.

 

 

 

And this is the pro and con list as it stands right now. It is certainly open for more additions or corrections.

 

 

PROS

 

1. breathing life into characters that may have been abandoned and thus extending someone's stay in game, their enjoyment in game.

2. allowing people who only have fun playing through a story once - experiment with their character without having to suffer through the story they already know and aren't having fun replaying.

3. allowing people to keep using unique, no longer acquirable items, that include pets, speeders, crystals, armor shells, as well as legacy perk unlocks on a character they have grown attached to, while enjoying the game play style that works better for them, within the same archetype, rather than having to reroll from scratch and lose all the investment they made into a character.

4. making extra money for bioware by making ac switch purchasable with cartel coins.

 

CONS

 

1) I would expect that many folks are not going to react well to this change if implemented.

2) They flirted with the idea before launch, even talked about it publicly, but in the end decided not to allow it. At the time folks were pretty dead set against it. I don't think it's likely the current environment has changed much since then.

3) Some classes could end up underrepresented due to bad design. Right now some folks stick with an AC they choose because they would have to reroll and do not wish to do so I would guess.

4) If restrictions are not in place this could end up being abused or exploited.

5) This will likely further demean AC choice.

6) Could cause FOTM issues.

7) If late game AC change is allowed it could end up causing folks that have an AC but do not know how to properly play it running Raids and Operations, making an existing problem worse.

 

 

I am willing to begrudgingly support option 1, option 7 but would prefer option 11. The idea of option 7 has some appeal...you have to level an AC to max level to get a legacy unlock you can use to switch to that AC inside the class for another character account wide. That still give AC meaning IMO.

 

I still prefer no AC change, but I'm somewhat willing to support 1 and 7. I personally do not feel option 10 is a good idea as I think it would possibly have a negative impact on the game, more likely than an early change.

 

I would also add what I would like to see happen with respect to AC.

 

1) Bioware would come out and publicly state, in no uncertain terms, that AC IS YOUR CLASS.

 

2) Make AC choice mandatory at level 10, move all abilities under the AC heading in the abilities pane and remove the base class header, move all trainable abilities from that point forward under the AC header on the trainer.

 

3) Remove all references in the game to your base class that can be removed once you choose your AC.

 

4) Add a small quest line at max level that is AC specific, where they refer to your AC directly.

 

IMO this would make the choice more meaningful.

 

I do think, however, that Dual Spec would be fine.

 

Dual spec - Allowed when you choose your spec onward, but open use is only allowed after you conclude your class story.

 

Before your story conclusion dual spec would be restricted to use inside heroics, flashpoints, operations and warzones UNLESS the groupfinder tool allows you a free spec swap while qued to fill missing roles. It would be a permanent unlock feature, allowing you to save a particular setup...it saves point allocation and bar locations of specials but not gear setup. it would have a one hour cooldown, and would cost either EC or CC.

 

After conclusion of your storyline you are unlocked to spec swap any time you wish.

 

This does not remove the cost of respecing...only saves the spec loadouts, positions of abilities on action bars, etc....you can still choose to forgo the dual spec route and manually redeploy your points and abilities.

 

Option 11, but I wouldn't complain too much if they did Option 1 or 4.

[Helig]

I love how the people who hate this thread keep bumping it:D

[Ancaglon]

Option 9

 

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - no maximum number of changes - must change at AC trainers on fleet - 1 Week cooldown - Option for AC change unlocked as Character Perk for 600 cartel Coins (or 1.5 million credits) - Each subsequent AC change costs 40 cartel coins (or 100,000 credits).

 

I like option 9!

 

I generally agree with it, however the CC cost for later switches should not be so much less. (Perhaps grant one free switch item, bound to character, when you initially unlock, so you can go back to your original AC if you realise you made a bad mistake, but not so free and easy that you're forever switching back and forth.)

[MajikMyst]

I love how people sit her and discuss cost when the game clearly stats your choice for AC is permanent.. There is no point in discussing cost when AC swapping isn't going to happen.. Bioware went through to much effort to both make it completely clear that your AC choice is permanent and make choosing your AC a fool proof process.. Edited October 22, 2013 by MajikMyst

[SithVeritas]

I love how people sit her and discuss cost when the game clearly stats your choice for AC is permanent.. There is no point in discussing cost when AC swapping isn't going to happen.. Bioware went through to much effort to both make it completely clear that your AC choice is permanent and make choosing your AC a fool proof process..

 

That's what we're all here for.

 

Not to restate what is in the game right now, but to discuss it and improve upon it.

 

For the record, I don't think AC changes should be allowed either, but honestly sometimes I wonder why you're here.

 

All you seem to be doing is trying to stop people from voicing their opinions and concerns.

Edited October 22, 2013 by SithVeritas

[Helig]

I love how people sit her and discuss cost when the game clearly stats your choice for AC is permanent.. There is no point in discussing cost when AC swapping isn't going to happen.. Bioware went through to much effort to both make it completely clear that your AC choice is permanent and make choosing your AC a fool proof process..

Because the game code is written on stone tablets thousands of years ago and cannot be changed, right?

[MajikMyst]

Because the game code is written on stone tablets thousands of years ago and cannot be changed, right?

 

Sure it can be changed.. PVP can be completely removed from the game as well.. Just as removing PVP is a bad idea, allowing AC swapping is also a bad idea.. Also it doesn't change what the game says repeatedly when you choose your AC.. I just find it odd that so many people choose to ignore the obvious.. Which is also a bad idea..

Edited October 22, 2013 by MajikMyst

[Helig]

Sure it can be changed.. PVP can be completely removed from the game as well.. Just as removing PVP is a bad idea, allowing AC swapping is also a bad idea.. Also it doesn't change what the game says repeatedly when you choose your AC.. I just find it odd that so many people choose to ignore the obvious.. Which is also a bad idea..

Opinion=fact. Got it.

[MajikMyst]

Opinion=fact. Got it.

 

There is nothing but fact in my post.. Sorry you can't seem to see the obvious.. Let me know when you actually have a point to make...

Edited October 22, 2013 by MajikMyst

[Darth_Wicked]

Opinion=fact. Got it.

 

The time you invest on this topic hoping and / or praying for something that - most likely - will NEVER happen would be better spent rerolling and moving the frak on. Just saying.

 

There is nothing but fact in my post.. Sorry you can't seem to see the obvious.. Let me know when you actually have a point to make...

 

Hard to make a point when there's no point to make when you think of it.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Darth_Wicked

[MajikMyst]

Hard to make a point when there's no point to make when you think of it.

 

^^

 

Ain't that the truth!!

[MajikMyst]

That's what we're all here for.

 

Not to restate what is in the game right now, but to discuss it and improve upon it.

 

For the record, I don't think AC changes should be allowed either, but honestly sometimes I wonder why you're here.

 

All you seem to be doing is trying to stop people from voicing their opinions and concerns.

 

I am just as entitled to voice my opinions and concerns.. I will speak out against anything that I feel is bad for this game.. Sure... Everyone is entitled to state their opinions..

 

I also don't see AC swapping as improving the game.. Which is the biggest reason I am here..

Edited October 22, 2013 by MajikMyst

[Helig]

There is nothing but fact in my post.. Sorry you can't seem to see the obvious.. Let me know when you actually have a point to make...

Like I said, opinion=fact.

 

The facts that you state in no way justify the necessity, of the impossibility of AC changes, logically. So the game tells you that AC choice is permanent........... because it is permanent right now. If it stops being permanent, the tooltips will be changed. You seem to have gotten cause and effect in reverse.

 

The fact that something is "obvious", or "bad idea" to you doesn't make it obvious for everyone else. That's the entire point you're making, and it doesn't merit an intelligent response.

 

Also, I'm neutral on the whole AC change issue. I wouldn't mind it, but I don't see it as an absolute necessity, as well. Pros and cons.

I am just as entitled to voice my opinions and concerns.. I will speak out against anything that I feel is bad for this game.. Sure... Everyone is entitled to state their opinions..

 

I also don't see AC swapping as improving the game.. Which is the biggest reason I am here..

Oh, but you do presume to speak for everyone else and leave no place for a differing opinion.

The time you invest on this topic hoping and / or praying for something that - most likely - will NEVER happen would be better spent rerolling and moving the frak on. Just saying.

I play since release and I have every AC type at 55. No need to reroll here. I do like putting down presumptuous d-bags though.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Helig

[Darth_Wicked]

We all know for sure AC changes wouldn't improve the game at all, just like double XP weekends only exist to cater for those who leveling a character is NOT a joy - so to speak - but more of a grind.

 

If people enjoy the game for what it is, I honestly find it hard do believe they find THAT hard to just reroll or play the mirror class, opposite advanced class they picked the first time around for the other... It's not rocket science for Pete's sake.

 

If you find this so hard to grasp, then one thing is for sure: This is NOT the game you're looking for.

[MajikMyst]

Oh, but you do presume to speak for everyone else and leave no place for a differing opinion.

 

Where did I ever presume to speak for everyone?? '

 

What reality are you in here??

 

FACT: Bioware once considered AC swapping then decided it was a bad idea and changed it.. They added repeated statements and messages in the game stating that our AC is permanent.. It is a bad idea.. Sorry.. But this is fact and not opinion..

 

FACT: Changing your class is a bad idea.. I can't think of a single game that allows class changes.. I would think that if it was a good idea then some would allow it.. You see that is the thing with opinions, you don't need fact to back them up.. Again fact, and not opinion..

 

You are entitled to your opinions, but not your own facts..

 

So get over yourself.. I am sorry if you can't deal with the facts of the situation.. I am sorry if they don't allow you room for your opinion.. Perhaps you should come to terms with the idea that the world revolves around facts and not opinions..

Edited October 22, 2013 by MajikMyst