DarthPanopticus Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 (edited) Apparently recent additions to the Ebon Hawk PvP community feel that the best way to become competitive and get gear is by queing up against themselves and literally just trading wins. Sunday was a sad day for ranked on our server since there was a group doing this all day but anytime anyone actually qued for ranked in order to face them, they quit the warzone instead of facing a potential challenger. I may be in a semi-retired state from PvP but I find this kind of behavior to be absolutely despicable. It's exploiting and cheating the system. Everyone else on this server has gotten their gear in the traditional manner by actually putting in time and effort of running regular warzones all day long or by queing up against stacked ranked premades that provide a serious challenge. You should too. Many of you know that because of the size of my guild we've been able to run ranked kickball games against ourselves in the past, but each and every game has been competitive and both teams tried their hardest to beat the other team. It's one thing to get 16 people who are friends to que up for ranked against each other and play competitively, that happens all the time and because of the state of ranked on our server - sometimes it's all you can hope for. Unfortunately, I have it on extremely good authority that this was not the case today - and that's disgraceful. With all the talk about pvp'ers wanting to transfer to other servers, i find it encouraging that there are people transferring to this server who want to contribute to the pvp community we have here. However, this type of behavior is not only detrimental to the community, it also makes you look extremely bad in the eyes of the people who've made this server their home. No need to name names, you know who you are. Just be aware that the community as a whole is watching you and every single person I talked to today thought your actions were extremely cheap and basically amount to the worst kind of exploiting possible. Perhaps other people feel differently about this issue and if so I invite them to share their thoughts and feelings on the matter here in this thread. - End Rant Edited May 27, 2013 by DarthPanopticus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGMetal Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 I agree completely and absolutely Pano. We don't want this type of behavior here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vintal Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Agreed, we were really bummed that this was going on and had many empty warzones to play in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clogski Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 (edited) Well apparently the gear gap between partisan and conqueror is too big for them they had to resort to win-trading to be on par with the rest of the server. Seriously though, they are better off minmaxing partisan gear before grinding conqueror gear. Edited May 27, 2013 by Clogski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanderer Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 (edited) Well apparently the gear gap between partisan and conqueror is too big for them they had to resort to win-trading to be on par with the rest of the server. Seriously though, they are better off minmaxing partisan gear before grinding conqueror gear. As if gear matters on this server. I suppose it's an easy excuse. The outcome of win trading (a team getting gear easily) does not really bother me as much as the fact that some teams were doing their very best to avoid any sort of competition. I know sometimes kickball too is organized to obtain gear rather than actual practice or competition, though the details are different even though the outcome might be similar. The problem here is not about gear. There was an opportunity to do ranked and opposing teams ended up in empty warzones. I would have also preferred if more guilds or teams queued for ranked last night. Not to chase the guild that was avoiding queues but to actually do ranked since there were a few other teams in queue as well. It was a missed opportunity. The best way to protest against such behaviour is to show everyone how it's done, it's high time more guilds started queuing for ranked. In any case, get your gear folks. Let me know if it changes the outcome of warzones, I somehow doubt that. Edited May 27, 2013 by Advanderer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sindol Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 And to think... They were doing this for what? /sigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenzali Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 (edited) Some are so eager to move to this server, yet others are so eager to transfer off Edited May 27, 2013 by Jenzali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NadirPalo Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Oooooh looks like somebody stepped on to the wrong side of the neighborhood! New guild, whoever the **** you guys are, messing with the PVP core on this server is a big, big mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanderer Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Oooooh looks like somebody stepped on to the wrong side of the neighborhood! New guild, whoever the **** you guys are, messing with the PVP core on this server is a big, big mistake. That's right! Tell them! I love the Ebon Hawk. Not only the ship, but also the server. The ship a little more perhaps, but that's irrelevant now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontayle Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Not exactly the best way to go about becoming a part of the community. There are more than a few big fish in the TEH pond and if so inspired they will work together to create a competitive environment but it gets boring facing the same people over and over again. I personally thought it was refreshing that some new faces had shown up to the scene. Then I discovered the truth of the matter, insofar as Sunday was concerned, and now I'm not so sure it's as refreshing as I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanetheDarkLord Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 I'm all for new people joining our server to increase the possibility for ranked pvp, but if you get in the ring, you better not run off when a real challenger comes for a fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drazzen Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Not sure what can be done about this, short of reporting them and hoping for some "actioning" by Bioware. I haven't been on all weekend because I had some RL obligations to attend to, but I am curious as to who these guys were. No need to post it here, I know most of you who've posted here and you know me so you can PM me either here or in game when I log in tonight. I know that <The Azure Blades> was looking to queue for ranked yesterday, how did you guys become aware of this otherwise? I don't condone queue dodging or win trading but I also didn't like it when new teams were trying to cut their teeth in ranked and the experienced ranked teams caught wind of it and got people to log in and form up and crush them. This is part of the reason ranked never took off. It's not the whole problem, but IF *and it doesn't seem that way* but IF they were queueing and then the big boys decided "Oooh soft queues, easy wins. Regulators; mount up!" then I could see the logic in that type of queue dodging. Doesn't mean I agree with it, doesn't make it right, but I can see the logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGMetal Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 (edited) If you're referring to Saturday morning, we were asked if we'd que for ranked, since we pulled off a double premade, and said yes. We knew we'd have someone queuing against us Drazz. At least I think so, I'd had a bit to drink. LOL Edited May 27, 2013 by RGMetal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sindol Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Not sure what can be done about this, short of reporting them and hoping for some "actioning" by Bioware. I haven't been on all weekend because I had some RL obligations to attend to, but I am curious as to who these guys were. No need to post it here, I know most of you who've posted here and you know me so you can PM me either here or in game when I log in tonight. I know that <The Azure Blades> was looking to queue for ranked yesterday, how did you guys become aware of this otherwise? I don't condone queue dodging or win trading but I also didn't like it when new teams were trying to cut their teeth in ranked and the experienced ranked teams caught wind of it and got people to log in and form up and crush them. This is part of the reason ranked never took off. It's not the whole problem, but IF *and it doesn't seem that way* but IF they were queueing and then the big boys decided "Oooh soft queues, easy wins. Regulators; mount up!" then I could see the logic in that type of queue dodging. Doesn't mean I agree with it, doesn't make it right, but I can see the logic. My thoughts exactly, bro. Looks like TEH is already running off more PvPers. This thread is nothing short of justification for why ranked will never happen on this server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sappharan Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Not sure what can be done about this, short of reporting them and hoping for some "actioning" by Bioware. I haven't been on all weekend because I had some RL obligations to attend to, but I am curious as to who these guys were. No need to post it here, I know most of you who've posted here and you know me so you can PM me either here or in game when I log in tonight. I know that <The Azure Blades> was looking to queue for ranked yesterday, how did you guys become aware of this otherwise? I don't condone queue dodging or win trading but I also didn't like it when new teams were trying to cut their teeth in ranked and the experienced ranked teams caught wind of it and got people to log in and form up and crush them. This is part of the reason ranked never took off. It's not the whole problem, but IF *and it doesn't seem that way* but IF they were queueing and then the big boys decided "Oooh soft queues, easy wins. Regulators; mount up!" then I could see the logic in that type of queue dodging. Doesn't mean I agree with it, doesn't make it right, but I can see the logic. That is probably the biggest problem with ranked. People scream for competition but seem to shy away from it when it starts to happen (poaching best players and meta guilds). I do not think they want the competition they claim to want and I cannot guess at the reason for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omophorus Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 (edited) Not sure what can be done about this, short of reporting them and hoping for some "actioning" by Bioware. I haven't been on all weekend because I had some RL obligations to attend to, but I am curious as to who these guys were. No need to post it here, I know most of you who've posted here and you know me so you can PM me either here or in game when I log in tonight. I know that <The Azure Blades> was looking to queue for ranked yesterday, how did you guys become aware of this otherwise? I don't condone queue dodging or win trading but I also didn't like it when new teams were trying to cut their teeth in ranked and the experienced ranked teams caught wind of it and got people to log in and form up and crush them. This is part of the reason ranked never took off. It's not the whole problem, but IF *and it doesn't seem that way* but IF they were queueing and then the big boys decided "Oooh soft queues, easy wins. Regulators; mount up!" then I could see the logic in that type of queue dodging. Doesn't mean I agree with it, doesn't make it right, but I can see the logic. I don't know if it even got to that point. By all accounts the win traders were leaving the instant it became apparent that it wasn't a match between the two win-trading teams. They never even stayed around long enough to get a good idea of who they were facing and whether it would be a competitive match or a faceroll. On a side note, I think you overestimate how often people "catch wind" and then "get people to log in to crush them". More likely "catch wind" and then 'want to do ranked WZs, plus have enough people online". I don't deny that there are some bullies on this server, but there are a lot more people who are just competitive and will queue up any time there is an indication there is ranked activity going on because they want some more skilled competition. It may be the case that certain groups tend to faceroll ranked, but I think people highly overestimate how much of the motivation for queueing ranked is to kick baby seals vs. have a better chance of having a real match against competent opponents. Edited May 27, 2013 by Omophorus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthPanopticus Posted May 27, 2013 Author Share Posted May 27, 2013 (edited) I don't know if it even got to that point. By all accounts the win traders were leaving the instant it became apparent that it wasn't a match between the two win-trading teams. They never even stayed around long enough to get a good idea of who they were facing and whether it would be a competitive match or a faceroll. Unfortunately, this is what occurred. To go beyond that, people who were invited to the win trading scam were promised "free comms". Drazzen, Sindol and Sappharan - I hear your points about the challenges faced by teams wanting to do ranked but in this specific case they do not apply. With the amount of kickball that SC has done, there have been many times when the matches we were scheduling against each other got interrupted by another team queing and we had to face an elite team with one that consisted of only about half of our geared players. In those instances, we played out the matches and win or lose decided after the fact whether or not we wanted to que up again. If the win trading teams had even for a moment attempted to fight the teams they knew were not their partners in the "free comms" scam, this thread would have not been made. The guild in question chose to take the ques and the instant they realized it wasn't their other team, they left the warzone. On top of that, they weren't even trying to fight each other. They literally just traded wins. Having spoken to several of the people involved, in no way shape or form was this anything other than an attempt to exploit the system and get gear quickly. Imagine how pissed off the pve community would be if they discovered there was a guild who wanted to be first in the server pve rankings and be considered serious raiders who had figured out a way to enter an operation with all the trash cleared and all the bosses already dead and ready to be looted. It would completely invalidate the entire gear grind that is part of the reward to dedicated and skilled players who put the time and effort in to get that gear. I know any thread created on this forum about pvp has a pretty good chance to devolve into people pointing out the challenges faced by new teams taking on the top teams in ranked but there are currently several other threads going right now that would be much more appropriate places to have that discussion. The intent of this thread is to specifically discuss win trading as an exploit of the pvp system. If you feel that queing up for ranked warzones with the intent of not even fighting the team you are playing against in order to sit around and get free comms is acceptable, then feel free to say so. As someone who has over 300 ranked games played in which I fought my hardest no matter who I was facing, I personally feel that what occurred is an exploit and a cheat worse than anything other thing I've ever seen in occur in a warzone. Edited May 27, 2013 by DarthPanopticus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcidicAmber Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 I find it ironic that those who got to where they are win trading (and exploiting the old ilum bugs) are on this thread qq'ing... With that said yeah it is pretty annoying to get in a ranked match and find no one there, and terrible boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthPanopticus Posted May 27, 2013 Author Share Posted May 27, 2013 I find it ironic that those who got to where they are win trading (and exploiting the old ilum bugs) are on this thread qq'ing... With that said yeah it is pretty annoying to get in a ranked match and find no one there, and terrible boring. I'm not quite sure who you are referring to in the initial part of your post, SC has never been involved in win trading. If you're referring to Guerrilla or Game Genie, I don't think putting a team together that's capable of beating just about anyone who ques against them in ranked qualifies as win trading. I've fought with and against them both in ranked situations more times than most people on this server and I can honestly say I've never seen that occur. If you have definitive proof otherwise, feel free to post it because that would most certainly be in line with the intent of this thread. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the competitiveness and skill level of those people would ensure that they would be more than willing to face anyone they happened to catch in a ranked que. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sappharan Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Unfortunately, this is what occurred. To go beyond that, people who were invited to the win trading scam were promised "free comms". Drazzen, Sindol and Sappharan - I hear your points about the challenges faced by teams wanting to do ranked but in this specific case they do not apply. Forgive me, Pano. You're right. I allowed myself to stray from topic. I agree with you that the worst offenses are win trading and queue dodging. The Silent Council I have met are kindly and helpful people and I mean that sincerely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeralPug Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 (edited) Lolz. <Watchman> are baddies. There. It's out in the open. Can we move on and continue to roll them in normals? They don't belong in ranked on this server anyway. Edited May 28, 2013 by FeralPug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sappharan Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 LOLZ. <Watchman> are baddies. There. It's out in the open. Can we move on and continue to roll them in normals? They don't belong in ranked on this server anyway. I am not surprised in the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeralPug Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Whoa! Let me qualify myself a little before folks go taking me all serious and crap: Please read my post above as prodding the good folks in Watchman to gear up and run a solid ranked team. There's nothing better for our server than another team willing and ready to join us in ranked games. Win trading? Who really cares? Frankly, I don't. This team is coming from another server. They don't have legacy perks, cash or gear from other toons. They're starting from scratch. If they have to sneak some trades to gear up, who the hell cares?? New teams should be encouraged, and who knows what rules they played by on their server. Every server is different. So a shoutout to Watchman. Welcome to TEH. You've picked a doozey of a server to step into. Hope you're up for the challenge. Best, Jerc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traejen Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 I have no problem with what they did at all, we are talking about the PVP community on this server...... please read many previous posts that document cheating, exploits, hacks, and socially awkward mutants who spend hours farming nobody's on Ilum. Look If they came to this server for PVP, then they aren't looking for competition, they would go to a PVP server for that, or at least should. If they came to this server to add to the community.....well Heaven help them, because if this server were a real person it would have been executed long ago. As Drazzen mentioned before, you have a guild playing kickball, and certain guilds get wind they put out an A team to crush them....how do you battle that? When a team tries that you just don't take the queue. If you wanted to queue just pop in Empire's mumble, ask them to play against you, there are 3 guilds there who would go....if conditions were perfect for them. All in all once again just more crying and complaining about the trash heap that is the PVP community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeralPug Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 (edited) [whine] Awww jeez, not this **** again. Edited May 28, 2013 by FeralPug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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