Let me further elaborate on the math here. To get close to 4k DPS you'd have to be doing 6k per GCD. Yes, dots will add to that, but even your highest hit has your under 6k. (Highest Hit) mind you. But for academia's sake, when did you join the fight? Something as monumental as that DPS achievement surely would have stuck out in your head. I'm sure you have combat logging turned on as well. Why don't you include the corresponding parse so we can verify that you were only in the fight for a partial match. It will be uninterrupted as you had no deaths. Further the plant was done in about 1 minute as indicated by the time elapsed (which you obviously held them off the first round), there's no way you did 500k damage in 60 seconds. If that were the case your dps would be closer to 8.5k. You also had 39 kills, which was only 4 off of the top kills and pretty much dwarfed everyone else in your group as well. As you don't have any healing abilities all those kills were initiated by you inflicting damage on players individually (or through your limited AoE as a vanguard). So, I just think it was an error in the system. There's no way that DPS is accurate.

So because I PvE I'm a care-bear? Talent Pool isn't thin at all. However I agree with you, as I stated above; a lot of the players went over to the Dark Side and a lot of the Pub players aren't as coordinated, and PUG. There are several excellent players still on the pub side, I can think of many in my guild alone. Some have early nights Some work late nights Some are from overseas Others like to PvEs Some on other servers, rerolled Some are tired of getting trolled Either way, <The Azure Blades> is already coordinating a ranked team *or at least trying again* because we want to see the PvP community thrive. I have abstained from ranked because of the thin pool, but I realize by not queueing I'm part of the problem of that thin pool. However that doesn't mean the talent isn't there. Just the desire isn't as strong. But as Baarf said, let's do this thing!

Not sure what can be done about this, short of reporting them and hoping for some "actioning" by Bioware. I haven't been on all weekend because I had some RL obligations to attend to, but I am curious as to who these guys were. No need to post it here, I know most of you who've posted here and you know me so you can PM me either here or in game when I log in tonight. I know that <The Azure Blades> was looking to queue for ranked yesterday, how did you guys become aware of this otherwise? I don't condone queue dodging or win trading but I also didn't like it when new teams were trying to cut their teeth in ranked and the experienced ranked teams caught wind of it and got people to log in and form up and crush them. This is part of the reason ranked never took off. It's not the whole problem, but IF *and it doesn't seem that way* but IF they were queueing and then the big boys decided "Oooh soft queues, easy wins. Regulators; mount up!" then I could see the logic in that type of queue dodging. Doesn't mean I agree with it, doesn't make it right, but I can see the logic.

This thread is getting as bad as the PVP threads. Can't we all just get along? Last I checked there were no server firsts and world firsts. I mean not in the measurable validated sense, other than a screenshot and timestamp. WHEEE!

If a consistent end-game PVP experience is people rage quitting after getting double capped in a CW at the beginning of a match, then Party of Five does in fact seem like the place to be. I hate rolling up against a premade on the other side that I can't beat, but I also would hate that every match I entered was a lop-sided faceroll in my favor too. I mean, if you are looking to do ranked PVP against a myriad of teams, then I understand your desire to go over there. I can attest from being guilded with you and playing with you that you are in fact one of the better PVPers. I don't think you are going over there for the easy wins, but it seems like you are leaving TEH in part because of the frustrating losses. It is unfortunate that we don't get 2-3 players from each pub guild to queue together for ranked, as forming one super-duper-ultra-mega-meta-guild isn't in our DNA over on Carrick Station, a good amount of us on the pub side who are some of the stronger PVPers did all share a guild tag once, and personalities, expectations, obligations, loyalties lied elsewhere. So yeah, that's why we have 30+ good players split over 6-8 different guilds. Probably more on both counts. A guildmate posted he was going to take some time off from the game because PVP wasn't even fun anymore. Part of it was because a lot of people have gone over to the imperial side for the softer queues and easier wins when paired up with the talented players who consistently roll together. And that the good Pub players who would otherwise remain are off on another server testing the waters. We can blame Bioware for not supporting the PVP experience in a more consistent and productive manner, but we have no one to blame but ourselves for letting the situation deteriorate as much as it has on TEH. Otherwise, server transfers wouldn't be the solution at all. People would just quit.

Let's be honest too, they didn't quit because they were embarrassed, they quit because the pops are happening so frequently that it's more efficient for them to requeue and try and get a win than sit through a match that they are potentially going to lose. You don't get that as much on TEH because 1) all of us have turned a match around that has gone south 2) pops aren't as frequent, and losing sometimes trumps sitting around waiting to either win/lose 3) Our community is fairly well-known and some people want to avoid the stigma of being known as THAT guy. Although there are several people who don't care that /stuck is abusing the game mechanics or corner capping in the wall in Novare, or door glitching in voidstar, or print screen/character tab spamming (and binding right click to your mouse wheel so you'll never miss a pick up) in huttball; or the other bug in Hypergates I won't mention because that'll get abused once I make it aware to the masses. Assuming that the other team is "embarrassed" because you were probably going to win a warzone is probably not the mentality on Party of FIve. It's, more like " **** this, match. I'll quit someone will backfill so I can get a fresh zone and maybe win." And this was more a response to SIndol than to you Baarf.

So I did another test. This time with the PVP Relics *both 66 augmented* and then completely removing the relics (having nothing in their slots). and then with the Underworld SA relic and the EWH relic Also this was unstimmed (but all 4 buffs). I can go back and look up the parses, or run them again but for the most part I saw about a 200 dps variance between PVP and no relics and about a 50 dps variance when equipping the UW and EWH. I also have saw the #s from (other parses) by adding the UW Relic of Dark Radiance: and it's approximately a 56 dps variance. In theory, the double/refreshing proc would best help healers in this scenario, but for straight dps the auto-proc; internal damage relic will work as good as the Partisan/Conqueror combination. I say in theory because I haven't bought my Conq Dark Radiance Relic or gotten a UW Dark Radiance Relic to test. Once I do *hopefully by tomorrow* at least in PvE and PvP I'll be able to post some definitive parses. The disadvantage to the double proccing relics are they can fire off during down time, IE taking damage will sometimes cause them to proc, (stand in an exhaustion zone and you'll see what I mean).

You won't be missed This is a case of not understanding how context works. So where does the "naivety" come from? Well, the question was what do you expect to happen? That all of a sudden there will be ranked matches all day? A lot of people are already super queueing, and you know what. I personally don't want to see anyone leave, even you Peyton although you feel the need to attack me at every opportunity on these forums. It's unfortunate that you can't find the thriving PvP that you want here on this server and feel the need to flex where the only reward is commendations. I wish you the best, with whatever you decide.

^QFT /5chars

Can someone please post the "Quadruple Proc" screenshot? 1) with 4 power buffs happening 2) with character sheet showing +1800 power (1690 i believe is the actual math) I tested this with a guildmate in group and while we did see the procs either A) refreshing (extending the limit) from 6 seconds up to a potential 11 seconds OR B) "proc"ing separately allowing it to come up again within the 20 second window (potential up time 12 seconds) via two 6 second procs. However, at no time did my power shoot up over 1800 or. Max it increased was the 845.

lol your face is priceless Hibar!!!

That's some crazy math bro. +9% crit chance to what....11% base? That's the only way you're getting 1 in 5. With the Proc. it's about 1 in 3. *MAYBE 1-4* if you have 0 itemization. And did you know if your Surging Charge crits, it counts too? Don't pal me. Just because you can dish out some fluff dot damage in Madness spec, don't claim that it's topping the dps charts like that's all that's important.

I am comparing single target hit to single target hit. Yes, an AoE does more damage than a single attack. I wouldn't think I'd have to explain that....Sheesh.

Anyone who says L2P should L2context. nothing to do with gameplay. if it crits it and is proc'd it does do more damage than Smash. So L2post

Wrong, Infiltration tactis and lowslash/spinning kick proc don't share a cool down.

Thank you for posting these. Proves that you can hit for over 30k in 3 mauls. (edit: actually 26k, obv not all 3 of these are one right after the other) Also, 3 charges of recklessness might seem useful, but on a discharge, dbl shock proc they're gone anyway. A lot of people would rather have the 50 extra force *not saying I'm one of them* but the extra recklessness usually gets wasted by the second shock. It's preferable to not have the dbl shock crit twice.

Actually, here's where we do agree. I don't think spamming maul is effective. of course the rotation *the proper rotation* you described is ideal and the maul spam should NEVER be used. That's not what's in question. And yes. I'd prefer for an assassin to be maul happy. But you didn't answer my question, do you think having a high impact ability *shadow strike, force sweep, merciless slash, high impact bolt* with the potential to be chain cast, as broken? NO reason maul should hit for upwards of 9k and it is quite possible to hit 9k 9k 7k 7k (force starved at the end or not) the last 7k is from spinning strike.

we're not arguing the definition of spammable, I said above in the definitive sense of the word it isn't. But you agree, as your edit describes that it can be spammed. (No CD).

because the thread is about maul. Believe me I have issues with those as well. Smash doesn't have to be AoE. It can be single target. It was an example. Ok, here's another example. Imagine if HIB/Rail Shot could be cast 3x in a row. Spike knocks you down for 2 seconds, enough for 2 mauls. if the player does turn? force speed strafe maul again. Force stun, maul again. low slash, maul again. And why do so many people assume you have to be BEHIND the target? remember maul is allowed from the side of the attack as well. pretty much anything behind the center of mass of the toon. And you also don't have to be facing the target completely, just not completely 180 degrees from it.

8 people to a warzone is entirely too small. I know SWTOR wanted to be different and go from 5 to 4; 10 to 8; and 20 to 16 for party sizes, but by having 8 man groups in small maps, is just too restrictive. I do miss RIFTs 20 man maps, they were chaos at times but so much fun.

I'm not saying, nor did I ever advocate spamming maul. Kite an assassin? not sure what to say to that. Last I checked there's only 1 true kiting class and that's a Sorc/Sage. Maybe an argument could be made for a lethality op/sniper. Again, what would you say if Smash could be used 3x in a row? would that be too much?

If it's an opener, you're more than likely coming out of stealth with a spin kick meaning first maul is, essentially free. Look at my post again. but to simplify it. 4 mauls (with only 1 proc) 12.5 force, 50 force, 50 force, 50 force. =162.5 force. 6 seconds (4 GCDs) of force regen at 18 force/second = +72 force 110+72 = 182 force. *And we forgot to mention that if Surging Charge procs that's an addt'l 10 force added* 4 mauls with no addt'l proc and no blackout needed (as it's triggered from your opener)

This is not true in the slightest. It is definitely considered one of the best abilities...Even if it's 3rd *which it isn't* it's still top 3. And yes in lvl 55 pvp it is in fact a problem

There's so many things wrong with this post, it's hard to know where to begin. (and as was mentioned, this isn't even using the 50 force set bonus for 160 total) I'm wondering if you even read any of the previous posts. First, your math is ridiculous. Coming straight out of stealth, you're getting 15 force regen. So in essence your spike (or spinning kick is free) so you're effectively starting the fight with 110 force. That makes your first maul/shadow strike cost...(wait for it) 12.5 force. Oh...but wait. for 6 seconds (out of stealth) you're gaining 12 force per second *so effectively still full force* *110); next maul is 50 force, putting you down to 60...BUT you're still regenning about 18 force per GCD. So back up to 78. -and that's if you don't get the duplicity proc. If you do you're still over 100 force. third maul (minimum 46 force) max around 96. 4th maul (force negative, for about half a second, then around 8 force min or 64 max. (more than likely you would have gotten one duplicity proc). Then you pop blackout/dark embrace and you're back to 18 force regen for another 4 GCDs. So 5th maul either can't be done (force deficient) or you get another one off and then perhaps another(which is the 5-7 calculation). Worst case scenario pop free force stun/electrocute. they'll probably break, but by then you'll be back in manageable force range (to at least low slash) whoa another 4 seconds where you can LOL. By that point, either proc could be available again meaning here comes the 6th and 7th maul. Problem? Force stealth, sleep dart LOL again while you regen not only your force and health (assuming you even need to) Go stealth again, spinning kick (even if resolve is full, get the proc) Start maul chain all over again. So by the STRICTEST definition no, it cannot be spammed ad nauseum. but with hits between 3k-9k (people always forget the armor penetration from Darkness), it can be chained repeatedly. Now, is this the best rotation...No absolutely not. But let's not get it twisted, it can be used like this, out of stealth and is extremely easy to position behind/side an enemy. Would you rage... if there was no CD on Smash *even if it didn't auto crit* and could be used even 3x in succession? What about Rail Shot? or Annihilate? Exactly. But don't worry, because you also have auto-crit discharge and Shock in the bank, which OMG will increase your crit chance by 9%! suddenly those 20% procs are getting closer to 30%!!! No Assassin worth their salt will lose a 1v1. only exception (maybe) is to a Powertech that has rockets that can interrupt the regen phase.

Did one as well in Watchman. http://www.torparse.com/a/211745