stringcat Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 They have to roll forward, regardless of the way their camera is facing. So unless you cannot remember which way they were facing (in which case you are bad), you really should just look 12 meters in front of you. But if it's 12, then you're bad for not snaring.. Uh.... the roll is actually in the direction of the way their camera is facing, not in the direction the toon is facing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectreclees Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 (edited) A Scoundrel/Operative whos spam rolling to the ball with either have 0 energy, or will have to pop cooldowns, which means they wont have it later. Keep that in mind This matters how? As soon as they grab the ball they throw it to someone behind them like the ball carrier which will in turn score the ball. The Operative/Scoundrel didn't waste any cooldowns doing that. Edited May 23, 2013 by spectreclees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zunayson Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Uh.... the roll is actually in the direction of the way their camera is facing, not in the direction the toon is facing. Hmm, good point xD Confusing it with the fact that they stay facing the same way lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Similar to how in chess it is advantageous to sacrifice a pawn for an opening position, in an objective based warzone it is often worth sacrificing a guy to open with a superior position. Of course most of the time the Operative in question doesn't even die. He just starts out with reduced resources, but he'll usually be fine. Let's say you can sacrifice one of your guys and force them to stay out of the WZ for 30 seconds but this ensures you always cap your pylon first on Alderaan, you would pretty much always do it because capping the node first is a tremendous advantage compared to being short-handed by one person. Likewise sacrificng a guy to get the ball in a favorable position in Huttball is huge because it has a high probability of converting the possession into a goal. The common Force Speed/Predation comparisons completely misses the point that you do not get the ball in a favorable position. When you grab the ball like that the plan is to get rid of the ball before you die, and a lot of time you will die before you can get rid of the ball because the enemy is easily within targetting range for a whole mess of abilities that can interfere with your passing (Force Push, Force Pull, or straight up stun + focus fire). Scamper is not subject to these countermeasures because the guy will have the ball and still be outside 30m, which prevents any retaliation possible before you can get rid of the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stncold Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 A Scoundrel/Operative whos spam rolling to the ball with either have 0 energy, or will have to pop cooldowns, which means they wont have it later. Keep that in mind But they also have the ball at the start of the match. If they pass that ball to a carrier, and that carrier scores off that possession, people on the other team are going to quit like always happens off a fast score at the start, and the match is already pretty much over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 But they also have the ball at the start of the match. If they pass that ball to a carrier, and that carrier scores off that possession, people on the other team are going to quit like always happens off a fast score at the start, and the match is already pretty much over. Even if the two team are 100% equal in power, having the other team scored first means your chance of winning overall is greatly reduced since they got the first goal. Imagine if both teams are equally strong and can always score every possession after and the ball merely changes hand after every possession (if A scores then B gets ball and vice versa), the only way the team that didn't score first can win is if they score the tying goal as time runs out (as they'd be the last team with possession before the other team can recover the ball). Otherwise, the first team scored either will be ahead in score, or they'd have the ball in a tie game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthBloodloss Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 I agree that its no worse than leaps or force run and force shroud. I do this on my operative healer alt. Grab the ball and move backwards around the side ramp so your team catches up. At that point you check if anyone went ahead for a pass, or do you just face tank into the pit and heal yourself as long as possible (until the vanish or throw-away). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masarko Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 This matters how? As soon as they grab the ball they throw it to someone behind them like the ball carrier which will in turn score the ball. The Operative/Scoundrel didn't waste any cooldowns doing that. Stop thinking Huttball is a 8v0 Warzone, if your team cant set up a potential pull by the time a Tank is near one firepit, then they deserve score. No really they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawncatcher Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 So, a little awhile ago I got the ball from mid. A fraction of a second later, and I was pulled from mid into a firetrap. A second later and I was dead. There's your counter to exfiltrate/scamper. I suppose a counter counter would be for a sage to pull me to relative safety instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 So, a little awhile ago I got the ball from mid. A fraction of a second later, and I was pulled from mid into a firetrap. A second later and I was dead. There's your counter to exfiltrate/scamper. I suppose a counter counter would be for a sage to pull me to relative safety instead. You're moving in the wrong direction if you're anywhere near a fire pit. You're supposed to move away from the opposing team (and then pass) after you grab the ball, not toward them. If you're moving forward, you just neutralized yourself because the whole point is to grab the ball before someone can get within 30m of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crashedhardrive Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Remind me again, how many classes are able to pass the ball? When combined with an overpowered roll which is the context of this discussion? I can think of two. You're a little slow aren't ya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawncatcher Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 (edited) You're moving in the wrong direction if you're anywhere near a fire pit. You're supposed to move away from the opposing team (and then pass) after you grab the ball, not toward them. If you're moving forward, you just neutralized yourself because the whole point is to grab the ball before someone can get within 30m of you. It happened less than a second after I grabbed the ball. I hadn't moved anywhere. Admittedly, this wasn't actually at the beginning of a Huttball match. The firetrap I got pulled into was towards the yellow side (I was on 'pub side, so that's opposite the goal we wanted to score in). But I assume the same would work with a firetrap towards the purple side. Also, even with scampering at the beginning of the match, that doesn't mean by the time you get the ball there won't be others within 30 meters of you (especially if you don't get the sentinel speed buff, but even so). Other classes might not be able to beat you to the ball, but they can generally get within 30 meters. Plus the operative who fails to beat you might immediately cc you a split second after you grab the ball to give everyone behind them time to catch up. Even if you win the initial race, it's still a fight to keep it. A fight a coordinated team can generally win, but a bunch of soloers thrown together by the queue might not be able to. Edited May 24, 2013 by Dawncatcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jawstheshark Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 personally I firmly believe this ability needs a cool down. Multiple PVP maps this single ability from a single class means the difference between win and loss. That is not 'balance' in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhalDrogoe Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Exfiltrate has made huttball FUN AGAIN. No more are the leapers the king of huttball! They can leap all they want, but the real huttball players are Operatives. Working as intended. If you want to nerf exfiltrate, nerf the damn leap ability with the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 A Scoundrel/Operative whos spam rolling to the ball with either have 0 energy, or will have to pop cooldowns, which means they wont have it later. Keep that in mind People actually still believe this? LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPWUHg6pBRo Seems like most people still don't realize this but rolling off ledges sends you farther...I will always be WAY ahead of the other team and I will ALWAYS have practically full energy by the time I grab the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhalDrogoe Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 A good operative can even bypass the 2nd trap if they're on the top ledge. But being on top also opens you up to fire pulls. If I could queue exclusivley huttball on my operative I would be soo happy and would have so much fun. As an operative I can pretty much control the map and get to ledges for intercede/passes much quicker than on my merc. Anyway if it wasn't for exfiltrate, huttball would be boring again, and the leapers would remain king. I would be really pissed if they nerfed the roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
player-klaus Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 dear forum users, dont listen to this midochlorian guy! he is crying for operative nervs for over a year now, when a good operative managed to successully 1on1 him on his lolsin and steal his node. from this day, he hasn't missed out one single opportunity to cry for operative nervs. he is just a little traumatized. if it wasn't for scamper, he would find other reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 dear forum users, dont listen to this midochlorian guy! he is crying for operative nervs for over a year now, when a good operative managed to successully 1on1 him on his lolsin and steal his node. from this day, he hasn't missed out one single opportunity to cry for operative nervs. he is just a little traumatized. if it wasn't for scamper, he would find other reasons. nerf,nerf,nerf...say it with me, nerf, not nerv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToMyMa Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 A Scoundrel/Operative whos spam rolling to the ball with either have 0 energy, or will have to pop cooldowns, which means they wont have it later. Keep that in mind ... says the warlord operative from ToFN... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneWag Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Nah. Having the equivalent of a Blink with no cooldown seems fine to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Nah. Having the equivalent of a Blink with no cooldown seems fine to me. I'd hardly call it an equivalent. Blink is 18 meters and it removes stuns/roots and has a 15s CD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atramar Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 getting ball first means nothing, usualy when I do it, when I have ball I have 0 energy and all I can do is to pass it back (if I'm still alive as atleast half of other team is shooting at me and Ican't heal my self lol). Rolls with the ball are quite short aswell, one good thing is getting top walk and roll down to pass fire, but sprint can do that too, if not better (jump). one place it's really OP is voidstar. break doors, roll to the bridge, you can cap it fast and get to next doors before respawn kicks in. same goes for AH, but on slightly less degree (as damage is easier to repair then VS) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 getting ball first means nothing, usualy when I do it, when I have ball I have 0 energy and all I can do is to pass it back (if I'm still alive as atleast half of other team is shooting at me and Ican't heal my self lol). Rolls with the ball are quite short aswell, one good thing is getting top walk and roll down to pass fire, but sprint can do that too, if not better (jump). one place it's really OP is voidstar. break doors, roll to the bridge, you can cap it fast and get to next doors before respawn kicks in. same goes for AH, but on slightly less degree (as damage is easier to repair then VS) You're doing it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atramar Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 You're doing it wrong. If I want to be first, there isn't much I can do differently. doing it slower risks KB well, saying 0 energy, it was overstatment. 30-40 would be more accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ObiJuanShenobi Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 I'm an Operative Healer. Coming from me, I say that scamper is not really needed for us. If they took it out, I wouldn't care. I can boss heals without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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