Hunker Down/Entrench...

[vimm]

The entrench mechanic is as old as SWTOR itself. People already adjusted to snipers self-rooting themselves and being immune. If a stupid person tries to win a DPS race with a CC immune sniper, its his/her own fault. LoS is always the best, strongest counter to entrench. If you are a smasher that thinks you should have an easy time with snipers, you are not very smart. If you are stealther that screws up by opening on entrenched sniper, you are also dumb. If you are another ranged DPS class that doesnt use LoS to its advatange you need to be institutionalized.

If you are stun-happy newbie that cannot deal with a sniper unless by CCing him, you should learn how to counter snipers.

 

I believe he was referrencing the fact that snipers are more mobile now with the 18m roll, as well as being able to reset Entrenched with Engineering, or getting a second Entrenched with the roll itself in Marksman. It is certainly more available for use now than it was, as well as Snipers being better for many other reasons - no doubt the class is very solid, and better than it's ever been.

[NoTomorrow]

I believe he was referrencing the fact that snipers are more mobile now with the 18m roll, as well as being able to reset Entrenched with Engineering, or getting a second Entrenched with the roll itself in Marksman. It is certainly more available for use now than it was, as well as Snipers being better for many other reasons - no doubt the class is very solid, and better than it's ever been.

 

The s iper mobility was added because sniper roots are now ncredibly more weak compared to 1.7. Man classes have got root breakers, root immunity in 2.0.

[Astarica]

You can't look at Entrench in a vacuum. Even if no class can possibly out DPS a Sniper in a 1on1 (and this is extremely debateable), surely any 2 DPS can beat 1 Sniper comfortably. This isn't the same as saying 'you just need 2 guys to win'. It's because Entrench presents a rather unique scenario (powerful defensive but nowhere close to being able to fight 1on2) that it is almost like a de facto sign for focus fire. You know the Sniper absolutely cannot withstand 2 people's worth of firepower, since Entrench doesn't increase your survivality if the attackers don't use AE, but if the Sniper leaves the Entrench his overall effectiveness is greatly compromised.

 

This tactic doesn't currently work right now because it's likely a single healer just easily outheal the damage done by 2 DPS on the Sniper, but the problem comes from the healers not the Sniper himself. If Snipers don't exist they'd just be healing a different ranged DPS that's being attacked by 2 people and it might even be a little bit easier, because that ranged DPS can usually move at least a little bit instead of facetanking all the incoming DPS.

[islander]

Entrenched sniper hates walls and floors.

 

/endofstory

[JustinxDuff]

I believe he was referrencing the fact that snipers are more mobile now with the 18m roll, as well as being able to reset Entrenched with Engineering, or getting a second Entrenched with the roll itself in Marksman. It is certainly more available for use now than it was, as well as Snipers being better for many other reasons - no doubt the class is very solid, and better than it's ever been.

 

And if we roll we lose entrench.

[Astarica]

No good Sniper is going to entrench himself in a spot where he can't hit anybody. A guy entrenched say in front of the Voidstar door or at a 45 degree angle to the souuth node control room in Novare Coast is always going to be able to hit someone in all but the most bizarre examples.

 

The weakness of Entrench is that this is basically a sign saying your opponent isn't going to leave that spot for the next 20 seconds. You focus fire and either he's forced to leave, or he dies and both are good outcomes. The only reason this no longer works right now is due to healing is overpowered. It's certainly not due to anything the Sniper is doing.

[islander]

And if we roll we lose entrench.

 

Yep.

 

If you run Sabo/Engineer, no free 3 second entrench every roll.

 

If you run MM/SS, you get the 3 second entrench every 20 seconds.

 

In fact, one of my favorite desperation moves when I'm close to death is to roll out of entrench (into obviously another temporary entrench) and pop off a series of shots/FT and then takedown if its up. I've puled some duels out of my *** against a melee opponent who started with the initiative this way.

Edited May 22, 2013 by islander

[Roysten]

They should definitely balance entrench by making it self root for its duration. Also after 6 seconds of this root apply a 30% defensive debuff. The ability of the sniper to shoot round corners should also be seriously curtailed.

[KettleBelll]

No, but they should reduce the CD of electro net to 60 seconds (45 seconds if talented in gunnery/arsenal).

 

No.

 

/5char

[JustinxDuff]

They should definitely balance entrench by making it self root for its duration. Also after 6 seconds of this root apply a 30% defensive debuff. The ability of the sniper to shoot round corners should also be seriously curtailed.

 

What? We are in cover....we are essentially rooted. If we move we lose entrench.

[cashogy_reborn]

What? We are in cover....we are essentially rooted. If we move we lose entrench.

 

your sarcasm detector must be broken sir

[Volxen]

No.

 

/5char

 

Oh hai there. How goes the derp smashing?

[foxmob]

Are you asking sniper to being brought down to their level, or other classes to be brought to sniper's level (while losing their extra perks they have over snipers)?

 

If you probably noticed the nerf entrench guys in this thread, don't give a damn about Sorcs and Mercs, they just want the sniper nerfed so they can finally stop being bothered by a turret class.

 

bring snipers down. there's too much survivability in 2.x already. bolstering dcds for gunnery and lightning would only compound the problem.

 

again, I don't have a problem with entrench. it makes sense. however, it's up for every fight (MM) and almost every fight for the other 2 specs. if you're going to get immunity to EVERYTHING, it shouldn't be available for every fight. for example, hold the line is a very powerful abil, trading off mobility for stunnable on a short cd (30s?). the mobility is countered by being stunnable. guarded by the force can be stunned through. unremitting, you only have to wait 4s before a pull/stun (not 20!). barrier, you can't cast at all while channeling. shroud is susceptible to white dmg and only last a few secs. what counters "immune to everything"? it's too much immunity to be able to call upon *for every fight* and it's over the top when compared to other classes with specs that operate in roughly the same way (stationary, high burst, cast/channel heavy). bear in mind you can cover/screen indefinitely and prevent *ever* being leaped to. it's not like you're naked (in MM) for 20-30s. :|

 

if I had my druthers, I would want snipers to have to choose whether to use the egg shell in tandem with entrench or try to alternate them. kinda like a sent: I have these 2 mitigation cds. am I gonna blow through them both consecutively or make sure I have one ready next fight? (not the best analogy since they have like 4 dcds).

 

please don't complain that snipers "are the most cc'd class." that's like complaining that the other kid's cake has more frosting than your piece because his had a little balloon drawn on the top. everybody gets (heh) caked in Stun Wars: The Old Republic. and NOBODY is immune to it even remotely as often as snipers. (although if resolve was worth a damn, they would be).

[NoTomorrow]

bring snipers down. there's too much survivability in 2.x already. bolstering dcds for gunnery and lightning would only compound the problem.

 

again, I don't have a problem with entrench. it makes sense. however, it's up for every fight (MM) and almost every fight for the other 2 specs. if you're going to get immunity to EVERYTHING, it shouldn't be available for every fight. for example, hold the line is a very powerful abil, trading off mobility for stunnable on a short cd (30s?). the mobility is countered by being stunnable. guarded by the force can be stunned through. unremitting, you only have to wait 4s before a pull/stun (not 20!). barrier, you can't cast at all while channeling. shroud is susceptible to white dmg and only last a few secs. what counters "immune to everything"? it's too much immunity to be able to call upon *for every fight* and it's over the top when compared to other classes with specs that operate in roughly the same way (stationary, high burst, cast/channel heavy). bear in mind you can cover/screen indefinitely and prevent *ever* being leaped to. it's not like you're naked (in MM) for 20-30s. :|

 

if I had my druthers, I would want snipers to have to choose whether to use the egg shell in tandem with entrench or try to alternate them. kinda like a sent: I have these 2 mitigation cds. am I gonna blow through them both consecutively or make sure I have one ready next fight? (not the best analogy since they have like 4 dcds).

 

please don't complain that snipers "are the most cc'd class." that's like complaining that the other kid's cake has more frosting than your piece because his had a little balloon drawn on the top. everybody gets (heh) caked in Stun Wars: The Old Republic. and NOBODY is immune to it even remotely as often as snipers. (although if resolve was worth a damn, they would be).

 

So basically you dont give a damn about mercs and sorcs either, you just want snipers to be an easy kill as well, so you can faceroll with impunity, because sniper is the only class that is spoiling your fun.

 

Last time i checked, Entrench does not allow me to shoot at targets arround the walls. Why do you insist so much on staying in my face? Are playing a marauder or juggernaut? You dont have much CC anyway, unless you are a jug tank, but jug tank can scratch quite a big chunk of MM damage. Deal with it, MM entrench was designed to be available very often, its not just a defensive CD, its how our class is designed. Stealthers have unlimitted stealth, nobody whines about that, we have entrench.

 

Oh and with the current overpowered healing the TTK is big enough for entrench to expire long before the fight will end.

Edited May 23, 2013 by NoTomorrow

[Astarica]

So basically you dont give a damn about mercs and sorcs either, you just want snipers to be an easy kill as well, so you can faceroll with impunity, because sniper is the only class that is spoiling your fun.

 

Last time i checked, Entrench does not allow me to shoot at targets arround the walls. Why do you insist so much on staying in my face? Are playing a marauder or juggernaut? You dont have much CC anyway, unless you are a jug tank, but jug tank can scratch quite a big chunk of MM damage. Deal with it, MM entrench was designed to be available very often, its not just a defensive CD, its how our class is designed. Stealthers have unlimitted stealth, nobody whines about that, we have entrench.

 

Oh and with the current overpowered healing the TTK is big enough for entrench to expire long before the fight will end.

 

It's easy to plant yourself in a reasonable decent spot to ensure you're always going to be shooting at someone.

 

Entrench's weakness is that normally if you see a DPS standing still you apply extra pressure to them and it'll either kill them or force them to retreat. Certainly healers and other ranged DPS retreat all the time, but getting a Sniper to retreat is extra-valuable compared to other classes when they've Entrench up, so this is why Entrench is extra powerful so far as defensive CDs go because the consequence for retreating is far greater.

 

However due to overpowered healing, pretty much anyone can facetank anyone else so you wouldn't have to retreat most of the time. This has nothing to do with the Sniper class though. There's always got to be one class that's strongest in a defensive position and if you can't force that class to retreat at all, then of course that class is overpowered. If there are no Snipers people would just complain about how come those Mercs or Sorcs just stand there and pop their CD and their start shooting at everyone too. If heailng gets nerfed, now it'd actually be possible to just throw 2 guys on an entrenched Sniper and force him to risk death or lose his entrench.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Astarica

[mulzii]

So basically you dont give a damn about mercs and sorcs either, you just want snipers to be an easy kill as well, so you can faceroll with impunity, because sniper is the only class that is spoiling your fun.

 

Last time i checked, Entrench does not allow me to shoot at targets arround the walls. Why do you insist so much on staying in my face? Are playing a marauder or juggernaut? You dont have much CC anyway, unless you are a jug tank, but jug tank can scratch quite a big chunk of MM damage. Deal with it, MM entrench was designed to be available very often, its not just a defensive CD, its how our class is designed. Stealthers have unlimitted stealth, nobody whines about that, we have entrench.

 

Oh and with the current overpowered healing the TTK is big enough for entrench to expire long before the fight will end.

 

So what you are saying is, you want the main counter to a sniper to be hiding from them or running away, rather than actually fighting them.

[Svii]

Hmm, what's this nonsense thread?

 

When my Entrench goes up I tend to get focused really fast by most good players. Unlike other CDs mentioned here, Entrench cannot be used while mobile. There's the trade off.