Please, allow FACTION DEFECTION as a part of end game!

[MajikMyst]

Bottom line is.. I think there are a number of issues that people either don't want to address or simply don't want to acknowledge are there..

 

Elara would be pissed if her trooper husband switched to the dark side.. A number of the companion stories do not make this a possible option.. No solution on that front has been given..

 

Animations.. Many of the animations are different between the characters.. Also gear availability is also an issue.. Sniper rifles are very hard to come by on the republic side.. There are no PVE sniper rifles with set bonuses that drop from an OP.. So an Agent would either have to dual wield or stay on the imp side.. The animation for holding a shooting a sniper rifle is much different than holding two pistols and shooting them.. The animations are different..

 

This would have more chance in happening if a character was just changed into their faction counterpart.. Still voice over would be an issue..

 

Companions again?? Do we keep our companions?? There are no imperial customizations for companions on the republic side..

 

Sure.. With enough work and money, it can be done.. But is it worth it for Bioware to do??

Edited June 30, 2013 by MajikMyst

[Jorojus]

I'd be happy if I could visit Coruscant and the Republic fleet f.e. without beeing assaulted by the entire Republic army and the Jedi Council. A little sightseeing etc.

[Skodan]

It does not work story wise!

 

Just doesn't, so im going to say no.

[Jeweledleah]

It does not work story wise!

 

Just doesn't, so im going to say no.

 

why not? I mean... we have npc's that defected, BOTH sides. half the trooper storyline is about defection, Elara dorne is a defector, General whose escape you stop is a defector.

 

agent story spoiler

 

Ki Sazen is a jedi that you can actively recruit to switch sides and join sith and she's very successful at it

 

 

people defect all the time. we mostly see it when it didn't work and we are the ones who stopped it from happening, but sometimes, we see it when it did. npc's that I mentioned are just off the top of my head, but I'm fairly sure I've seen more and successful defectors while playing.

 

it CAN work storywise, if written well. it would just be work intensive IMO to implement.

Edited June 30, 2013 by Jeweledleah

[Moonraker]

Bioware, please, allow us to defect to the oposite faction as an end-game option!

 

Here's my situation (as an example). I have a 53 sniper and I LOVE it, but I don't like to play on the Empire side as much as I like to be in the Republic side.

 

I'm sorry imperials, but I love the Republic even with all its flaws.

 

So... I would LOVE to play on the Republic with my sniper and I'm pretty sure that role players would love this option too.

 

Maybe, if someone plays a dark jedi he could have the option to defect to the sith or if someone play a light side agent, he could have the option to defect to the republic military.

 

There could have some requirements to do so, like:

 

1 - You need to have a toon on the oposite side as a mirror to be replaced.

2 - You have to finish your class's story line completely.

3 - You need to be full light or dark.

4 - You need to be at least legacy 15.

 

Maybe other requirements or a combination of some of them.

 

In my opinion it could even be an cartel market perk.

 

 

So what do you guys think about it?

I totally agree, love this idea, it gives more customization to your toons, great idea

[MajikMyst]

why not? I mean... we have npc's that defected, BOTH sides. half the trooper storyline is about defection, Elara dorne is a defector, General whose escape you stop is a defector..

 

Because defecting was part of their story and not ours.. What happens to Elara Dorne now if a trooper goes to the empire?? After leaving her family, do you really think she should just follow you and heal you?? What about the other companions?? I would say this calls for a mutiny and they kill you while you sleep.. This idea totally ignores the existing stories.. As you so correctly pointed out..

 

Grats for stating a reason why it shouldn't be allowed..

Edited June 30, 2013 by MajikMyst

[Veult]

I've been though all postings in this thread and I came to the conclusion that there are really alot stupid ppl running around. Its like on the fleet, ppl dont understand the simpliest things, like sorcs insulting me for telling them to stack willpower instead of strength.

 

Anyway! I Love the idea and would defo go Rep side with my assassin or marauder.

 

Any class would just keep its abilities and work either as an imperial spy on Rep side, trying to gather informations or work as a freelancer for the Reps or just become a Rep. Sniper or a dark side jedi or or or.

But you could be w/e you want to be, use the abilities you prefer on the side you prefer to stay.

 

When you defect you loose your ship , storywise, and get a rep ship through an easy quest.

 

Just stop thinking tool complicated. Only thing needed would be the voice sync between you and your new questgivers.

[StrawberryZerg]

Just stop thinking tool complicated. Only thing needed would be the voice sync between you and your new questgivers.

 

It takes Bioware weeks+ to fix OTP issues, and you ask about reworking whole game model?

[StrawberryZerg]

I

 

The people that care the most about lore according to me are the RP'ers, tell me if I am wrong ...

In the movies and in RP people can change allignment at a certain point. A jedi can be seduced by the dark side and back to the light side as we all know having seen the movies.

 

.[/u]

 

But they remain jedi. You can go with Knight and go Dark Side. That's your call. Implenting defection does nothing good to the game. You can play whatever you want and it affects your story. Just to visit other faction fleet, I dunno, not worth wasting time.

 

For example WoW has faction transfers yeah, but it doesn't affect anything at all because:

1) There's no storyline.

2) Classes are not exclusive to the faction. Everyone can be Hunter either Horde or Alliance.

 

Problem with SWTOR is that each faction has EXCLUSIVE classes, with other abilities and so. I don't wanna see IMPERIAL agent running around on Repub. fleet. I can make my own Imperial Agent and go full re*d*ard mode and go LS or something, playing what I want, but I still be Imperial because it makes sense.

 

My point is defection is good for some NPCs to twist story or something, but not worth wasting time because some people are too lazy to level mirror characters. Gunslinger is exclusive to Repub - 2 pistols etc. Sniper is exclusive to Imps and has sniper rifle obviously, making him special and somewhat different to Slinger. Put time in defection and you lose your personality.

Edited June 30, 2013 by StrawberryZerg

[Jeweledleah]

and there I thought defection was about possibly cool story and role playing opportunity... silly me >_>

 

incidentally - light side, certain choice agent ending spoilers

 

 

you can actually defect after a fashion. specifically, if you don't kill Ardun Kothe, he will show up in the end and offer you to become a double agent - a spy for the republic, soooo.... you may appear to be imperial, but you aren't, not really.

 

 

aaaanyways, it could be a fantastic storyline, and I know several people who already explored possibilities of defection through role play. they had to reroll and separate in game story from their personal role play to do that, but they did do that.

 

it would just be nice if we could also do that officially, in game.

 

But they remain jedi. You can go with Knight and go Dark Side. That's your call. Implenting defection does nothing good to the game. You can play whatever you want and it affects your story. Just to visit other faction fleet, I dunno, not worth wasting time.

 

no, not entirely true. again agent spoilers - Taris this time

 

you meet a rogue jedi there and you can recruit her to the empire and she becomes sith, goes for training etc.

 

 

also "does nothing good for the game" is your opinion, not a fact.

Edited June 30, 2013 by Jeweledleah

[Kelvarn]

I only read through half the pages so maybe this was already said.

 

Perhaps if someone really wanted to defect which it seems some do. The process would involve being interrogated by the faction you wish to defect to and all the equipment/gear you have been taken. You could have comms reimbursed for gear taken but I really think that if someone wants to defect that badly that there needs to be some work involved and not just some switch to flip with your credit card.

 

There are currently ways to send bound mods through legacy (unless they changed it) so when your character is a citizen of the new faction, there is some gear waiting.

 

I disagree with losing the equipment. Maybe lose it for a while, but after interogation, you get it back.

Also, I posted a possible storyline, back in the thread for the trooper. It explains a bit of what you are saying.

Though I agree there has to be some work involved, thus why I have been saying this should be made an expansion.

 

Bottom line is.. I think there are a number of issues that people either don't want to address or simply don't want to acknowledge are there..

 

Elara would be pissed if her trooper husband switched to the dark side.. A number of the companion stories do not make this a possible option.. No solution on that front has been given..

 

Animations.. Many of the animations are different between the characters.. Also gear availability is also an issue.. Sniper rifles are very hard to come by on the republic side.. There are no PVE sniper rifles with set bonuses that drop from an OP.. So an Agent would either have to dual wield or stay on the imp side.. The animation for holding a shooting a sniper rifle is much different than holding two pistols and shooting them.. The animations are different..

 

This would have more chance in happening if a character was just changed into their faction counterpart.. Still voice over would be an issue..

 

Companions again?? Do we keep our companions?? There are no imperial customizations for companions on the republic side..

 

Sure.. With enough work and money, it can be done.. But is it worth it for Bioware to do??

 

Go back and read some of my posts. I pointed out some of the stuff on Dorne specifically, that you talk about.

As for gearing people up, it's not that hard to have vendors added to the fleet. They did it with 2.0. Don't think it will be all that hard to do.

With the agent sniper problem: Add sniper rifles to the loot tables.

Keeping companions: Not all of them. Come on, some of them will not switch over. Take M1-4X, for example. Seriously think that isnt gonna happen. But, again, I worked it into the little story idea I posted a ways back.

For the customization, simple: Add companion customization vendor to the fleet.

 

But they remain jedi. You can go with Knight and go Dark Side. That's your call. Implenting defection does nothing good to the game. You can play whatever you want and it affects your story. Just to visit other faction fleet, I dunno, not worth wasting time.

 

For example WoW has faction transfers yeah, but it doesn't affect anything at all because:

1) There's no storyline.

2) Classes are not exclusive to the faction. Everyone can be Hunter either Horde or Alliance.

 

Problem with SWTOR is that each faction has EXCLUSIVE classes, with other abilities and so. I don't wanna see IMPERIAL agent running around on Repub. fleet. I can make my own Imperial Agent and go full re*d*ard mode and go LS or something, playing what I want, but I still be Imperial because it makes sense.

 

My point is defection is good for some NPCs to twist story or something, but not worth wasting time because some people are too lazy to level mirror characters. Gunslinger is exclusive to Repub - 2 pistols etc. Sniper is exclusive to Imps and has sniper rifle obviously, making him special and somewhat different to Slinger. Put time in defection and you lose your personality.

 

I disagree. I see no reason you can't have both, on each side. All I see is your opinion on how it can't be done. Or why it shouldn't. It can be done, and still keep each class unique.

I am not saying there won't be some crossover, but it doesn't keep them from being unique.

As for your WoW reference, I don't remember seeing Alliance Taurens or Horde Draenei. But the classes do switch over.

 

It does not work story wise!

 

Just doesn't, so im going to say no.

 

That is just your opinion. It can be done so it works just fine in the story. Again, I point you to a previous post I have made.

 

Because defecting was part of their story and not ours.. What happens to Elara Dorne now if a trooper goes to the empire?? After leaving her family, do you really think she should just follow you and heal you?? What about the other companions?? I would say this calls for a mutiny and they kill you while you sleep.. This idea totally ignores the existing stories.. As you so correctly pointed out..

 

Grats for stating a reason why it shouldn't be allowed..

 

I already addressed this, a while back. Go look. There is no reason it can not be done.

But just to be nice, something that doesn't happen often, I will re-explain how it can be done...

Trooper gets sent on a mission that requires them to fake defection to the Empire.

Dorne, through some SIS slicing, is listed as a plant in the republic, in order to get people to defect.

M1-4X and Jorgan stay behind, and lead a team to "take down" the trooper and the rest of Havok Squad.

From there, the story progresses.

You aren't looking at how it CAN be done. Just how you don't want it to happen.

 

and there I thought defection was about possibly cool story and role playing opportunity... silly me >_>

 

incidentally - light side, certain choice agent ending spoilers

 

 

you can actually defect after a fashion. specifically, if you don't kill Ardun Kothe, he will show up in the end and offer you to become a double agent - a spy for the republic, soooo.... you may appear to be imperial, but you aren't, not really.

 

 

aaaanyways, it could be a fantastic storyline, and I know several people who already explored possibilities of defection through role play. they had to reroll and separate in game story from their personal role play to do that, but they did do that.

 

it would just be nice if we could also do that officially, in game.

 

 

 

no, not entirely true. again agent spoilers - Taris this time

 

you meet a rogue jedi there and you can recruit her to the empire and she becomes sith, goes for training etc.

 

 

also "does nothing good for the game" is your opinion, not a fact.

 

Jeweledleah, you are awesome! Just had to point that out. Keep up the great work.

[Kelvarn]

I only read through half the pages so maybe this was already said.

 

Perhaps if someone really wanted to defect which it seems some do. The process would involve being interrogated by the faction you wish to defect to and all the equipment/gear you have been taken. You could have comms reimbursed for gear taken but I really think that if someone wants to defect that badly that there needs to be some work involved and not just some switch to flip with your credit card.

 

There are currently ways to send bound mods through legacy (unless they changed it) so when your character is a citizen of the new faction, there is some gear waiting.

 

Honestly, if I were writing the trooper story line, I would pretty much pull an interogation scene in it.

It's gotta be something believable, but also something that connects you with your character.

[DakotaDoc]

To make it work, you would have to swap from a Sniper to a Gunslinger. And get a whole ship full of new companions. Or you could (get this) role a Gunslinger and enjoy the different story.

[Sleekcruiser]

I like the idea of defections.

 

I can see the arguments against, but there are workarounds, some crude and inexpensive (from the VP of the devs) and some sophisticated but more expensive.

 

It is possible.

 

The only question is whether the bioware consider it feasible.

 

And they may. It has potential to attract custom, build / keep market base.

 

BTW, people like to be different. That is why vanity gear sells so well in other FTP games, why many different looking but stats-identical mounts exist in MMOs, that is why 'l33t'ism exists. Having a tough qualifier and making the defection something that is rarer would be a big attraction. BW could leverage this in some way to sell SUB or Cartel coins.

 

Just my 2c. Or 1 cartel coin.

[Kelvarn]

To make it work, you would have to swap from a Sniper to a Gunslinger. And get a whole ship full of new companions. Or you could (get this) role a Gunslinger and enjoy the different story.

 

Untrue. I have stated it before, it can be written in for all classes to switch over to the other side.

I have even put up a post that give a preliminary idea on how to do it, with just about each class.

[Sarafain]

EV/KP Ops "tier" gears armor mod/piece could not be removed making everyone look the same, since then we can pop out all gear armor/mod/enchance's, unify colours and now dye our gear to a preferred colour. Just pointing this out to prove aestetics are important in a game.

 

This is the main reason why most want a faction defection quest. The don't want a Commando to become a Mercenary when they switch sides, they want a Imp with a BFG. I think most people that have read this thread (especially this far) get that we don't want to play the mirror class we want the swap because we prefer the way an agent compared to a smuggler.

 

I think this should be a CC option, possibly in the 1-1.5k range. OMG why?? Well it takes people to write the story, it takes people to program this to happen. It's not like they can flip a switch and everythings done. That amount of coins is what $15 per toon, that's really not a lot considering the time it takes to make it happen

 

I would like to see you getting your choice between current companions and the mirror classes companions. The quest will basically leave you screwed over by your current faction and you get to choose to switch. If you're getting hosed then so are your companions are too. At the end of the quest you loose your companions and then have to quest to save or find them and choose what one to help/save/find/etc. More work but possible and plausible.

 

Someone has already mentioned the voices, animations, etc already exist for the class they just need to sync that to the opposite faction.The defect can only happen at max lvl, you loose all datacrons you've found should take care of current story/planet problems.

 

I don't think light side/dark side should matter. There's no point to ping pong your alignment to switch if you're only going to flip it back.

 

TL : DR - We play a toon because of looks

- We need to pay for it to happen

- The story is still ongoing so saying it won't work because of X's story/quest isn't a valid "can't do it"

- It's a matter of moving what already exists, not starting from scratch

Edited July 6, 2013 by Sarafain

[Julius_Caesar]

There is nothing like a good betrayal of the Republic to get your blood flowing. Though I would not want this to be a Cartel Market item, maybe Subscriber only? Cause I would like to play as a Republic Trooper, then defect to the Empire and be a Imperial Trooper, only after I have killed a whole squad of soldiers for doing the same thing, of course.

 

I want this though. Bioware, bring this, or the 12th Legion will destroy you.

[Xendor_Sunrider]

I'm seeing alot of support for this, but I have to say the thing you guys are forgetting are companion characters, MANY of the companion characters have a true hatred or resentment for the opposite faction and many are also defectors. examples include such as Elara, Kira, Scourge, Jaesa etc. In the event you were to switch to the other faction you would most likely have to kill these companions because of their refusal to either go back to or join the opposite faction. NOT only this but the trooper's story specifically revolves around hunting down traitors for a fair portion of the story, there would be no point to hunt down all of these traitors then become a traitor yourself. ALSO there is the fact that all of the Republic classes are mirror images of the Imperial ones and vice versa. So as much as I'd like to play an imperial trooper it's just not likely to happen. I truly don't see the point of being a dark jedi, if you want to play as a sith go play as a friggen sith, the same can be said for a lightside sith if you want to play a jedi go play a jedi.

[WisTexOfficial]

I think that if you added a story line that would justify the whole group defecting, that would add enough realism. For example, if you are an Imperial Agent and your whole team gets betrayed by the Empire and then saved by the Republic SIS, it might make the whole group rethink some things and be willing to join the other side, regardless of what their previous loyalties are. Nothing like a betrayal and death sentence to make you want to switch sides.

 

A Smuggler or Bounty Hunter crew might even be easier to turn, since they are for hire anyway. In fact, a smuggler or bounty hunter could actually play both sides, and take jobs from both Empire and Republic, and act accordingly.

 

Personally, I would keep the character as they are, just allow them to play the opposite side's missions. For example, if a Imperial Agent turned, they could start accepting missions from the Republic side, similar to many the Smuggler or Jedi Consular would take on. A Smuggler, who does some work for SIS occasionally, could do some of the Imperial Agent missions on the same basis, as another example.

[kirorx]

Of course this would be Awesome

 

THERE ARE MAJOR PROBLEMS, But they can be addressed.

 

1st: This would have to be done as an expansion with new content that led up to your toon either showing their loyalty or their betrayal.

 

2nd: Voice Overs; I thought this was a main concern but having played through makeb, they can keep it generic enough that NPC's react the same to all characters regardless and your toon has mostly recycled lines anyway.

If your sith becomes a jedi or your agent joins SIS then it should not be too hard to implement.

 

3rd: Companions, since this would be a full expansion, joining the other faction could cost you to lose companions and replace them with new ones as part of the storyline. Perhaps new companion conversations where you talk them into defecting. On the reverse side perhaps some companions want to defect and if you choose to stay loyal you can still replace or keep them.

Maybe this is a way to implement killing your companions off to make room for some new ones.

 

Or they could just not have new ones, and just make them defect with you and include it as part of the storyline.

 

I doubt Lt Pierce would want to defect but if the empire betrayed you and your crew as part of the main storyline, he might show loyalty to you over the empire.

[Kelvarn]

I'm seeing alot of support for this, but I have to say the thing you guys are forgetting are companion characters, MANY of the companion characters have a true hatred or resentment for the opposite faction and many are also defectors. examples include such as Elara, Kira, Scourge, Jaesa etc. In the event you were to switch to the other faction you would most likely have to kill these companions because of their refusal to either go back to or join the opposite faction. NOT only this but the trooper's story specifically revolves around hunting down traitors for a fair portion of the story, there would be no point to hunt down all of these traitors then become a traitor yourself. ALSO there is the fact that all of the Republic classes are mirror images of the Imperial ones and vice versa. So as much as I'd like to play an imperial trooper it's just not likely to happen. I truly don't see the point of being a dark jedi, if you want to play as a sith go play as a friggen sith, the same can be said for a lightside sith if you want to play a jedi go play a jedi.

 

I am not forgetting companion characters.

In several posts, I have already said that there should be loss of some companions. It makes the story a bit more unique, should you lose at least one.

Now, as for refusing to go back, I don't see that in all cases. Scourge would probably go back. Jaesa, as light side would most likely go back. Dorne wouldn't but I can see her going through a possible story arc that allows for it, given the right circumstances. Kira probably wouldn't, but that doesn't mean she couldn't be convinced to at least take on a mission to redeem some of her "brothers and sisters."

As for the trooper story line, I suggest you read any of my posts that suggest how to do it.

Regardless of them being mirror classes, they are only mirror in ability/damage/specs. Not total mirror.

As for the "go play as..." Why limit your options? As several players have already pointed out, it makes for an interesting story to have one fall or be redeemed. What's the point of only being one, when you can play a fallen jedi or a redeemed sith?

[Jeweledleah]

I'm seeing alot of support for this, but I have to say the thing you guys are forgetting are companion characters, MANY of the companion characters have a true hatred or resentment for the opposite faction and many are also defectors. examples include such as Elara, Kira, Scourge, Jaesa etc. In the event you were to switch to the other faction you would most likely have to kill these companions because of their refusal to either go back to or join the opposite faction. NOT only this but the trooper's story specifically revolves around hunting down traitors for a fair portion of the story, there would be no point to hunt down all of these traitors then become a traitor yourself. ALSO there is the fact that all of the Republic classes are mirror images of the Imperial ones and vice versa. So as much as I'd like to play an imperial trooper it's just not likely to happen. I truly don't see the point of being a dark jedi, if you want to play as a sith go play as a friggen sith, the same can be said for a lightside sith if you want to play a jedi go play a jedi.

 

if you read through - you will see that it hasn't been forgotten and instead was addressed multiple times with several suggestions how it could be handled. its part of complexity of implementing a story like that, because in addition to general companion believes, you also have relationships involved (relationships that most of the time end in marriage)

 

of course it would be complex to implement. that's part of the fun. its also the reason I don't see it happening anytime soon, as much as I'd love to see it happen

[Sleekcruiser]

On the companions .. opinions change. Allegiances change. Even for NPCs. If we need proof in a story (creative thinking here, not rigid science) then defectors like havoc squad and Elara Dorne prove it.

 

The darn companions can change their minds and allegience and darn well defect with you.

 

Remember, it is a STORY, it is creative, it is not immutable stuff. If you want logic you can't have SWtor, which is full of silly things (Um fleet pass anyone? Ship follows. etc).

 

Why can the idea anyway? If you don't want to defect, dont. Simple.

[WisTexOfficial]

Doing it as an optional expansion would be good. You could provide new level 50+ content and also open up select lower level missions that used to be for the other side.

 

The characters of Imperial Agent, Smuggler and Bounty Hunter could easily play both sides, and not even have to switch sides. Imperial Agents already have a history of being double agents, while Smugglers and Bounty Hunters are for hire. So it would not necessarily have to be a full defection for these characters. Some of the others like Jedi and Sith are more complicated to switch sides.

 

Instead of a full switch of sides, how about this? What if purchasing the expansion makes opposite side content available. For example, if you are an Imperial Agent, you would have the option of taking some of the missions a Smuggler or Jedi Consular might take (perhaps from SIS), but the icons for these missions are a blue triangle instead of a yellow one. Or for a Smuggler, there could be missions that are available from Imperial Intelligence instead of SIS, which would be marked with a red triangle instead of the standard yellow one. Then, as the characters are taking missions, they have an option to take opposite side missions, while still being able to take their own side's missions.

 

Since this is endgame content, it would not affect the story line much at all. When you take companions, you would want to take ones who would be okay with such missions.

[WisTexOfficial]

I hear a lot of people mention light side and dark side and equating them with allegiance with Republic or Empire. That is not necessarily the case, especially for the non-Jedi and non-Sith characters. There are light side Empire characters (players and NPCs), and dark side Republic characters (players and NPCs). These characters are in the minority, obviously, but both Republic and Empire have factions trying to change it to light side or dark side from within.

 

Switching sides for Sith & Jedi would require something drastic, or simply them going to the dark side if Jedi, or going to the light side if Sith. Everyone else would probably do it for the money.

 

So far the most fun character I have played was a light side Imperial Agent. Puts you in all sorts of interesting situations and conversations, not to mention adds additional tension of defying the dark side leaders of the Empire.

 

Some classes are easier to turn than others:

 

Imperial Agent - Already has contacts in SIS.

Smuggler - For hire.

Bounty Hunter - For hire.

Trooper - Could get disgruntled and switch sides.

 

For these characters, financial incentive alone might be all that is needed for them to switch sides or play both sides.

 

Some of the harder ones to turn would probably be:

 

Jedi Knight & Jedi Consular - Unless they go dark side, probably not going to defect. But this has happened before in SWTOR's own history.

Sith Warrior & Sith Inquisitor - Unless they go light side, probably not going to defect. But this has happened before in SWTOR's own history.

 

For these classes, perhaps there needs to be a requirement to be light side or dark side to switch. Hard to explain the switch otherwise.

 

So all could switch, but I would think each character would have to be treated differently, with its own story.