future of maul?

[stephenalandavie]

Back back and moan when maul is an auto crit ability like some others have. And when i am doing 10k hits on my sniper all i can say is Pftttttttttttttttttttttt

[Xerain]

Actually, that is how a dictionary works. There's 2 definitions, the latter applies to maul.

 

But if you really want to get into it....

 

 

 

 

You spam maul 7 times, then stun them, wait 3 seconds, now you have 41-57 force back. You can be saber striking them or mauling them some more while they're stunned too, don't even have to wait 3 seconds. That would meet the definition of "little consequence."

 

You're getting tunnel vision from all the nerf operative roll threads, Xerain.

 

Let me clarify why they're different:

 

People complain about the operative roll being OP, except agent energy regen is HORRIBLE and if you spam the lolroll 5 times, you're going to have barely any energy afterwards. Not the case with maul.

 

Now, does that mean I want maul nerfed at all? No. To the contrary, I'd actually like an auto-crit added to the maul proc, especially if smashers get to keep their autocrit.

 

No because it's still all apart of 1.

 

1. Spammable

 

1) a) (Adj.) Something that can be spammed easily, quickly, and with little or no consequence. b) (Adj.)A video game skill or action that can be (and often is) used multiple times in rapid succession. (e.g., Repeated melee attacks, spam fireball)

 

See.

 

I'm not claiming nerf to anyone. You're trying to cry wolf over what?

 

 

The operative roll would be more OP'ed with a cd because it'd give them tons better energy management. Yeah good idea guys.

 

Also you're insane if you think maul needs an auto crit mechanic.

[Xerain]

Maras have stealth, 6 sec mez, 4 sec channeled stun

Juggs have a 2sec knockdown , 6 sec mez, 4 sec channeled stun

 

Neither has a hard stun while in smash spec, but is either underpowered? =/

 

4 seconds of stealth*

 

3 second channeled stun*

 

Juggs can get a 4 second stun talented and with a set bonus make choke 4 seconds channeled or not depending if they take talent.

 

Please know what you're talking about first.

[cycao]

Can maul be spammed? Technically, yes if you are using the PvE set bonus and use your blackout. Is it effective? No.

 

I have seen assassins/shadows spam maul/ss on me and when I survive the initial damage I just laugh as I finish them off because they are out of force and cannot get into any real rotation after said "spamming" (and this is when playing madness).

 

Terribad's who play the class/spec wrong can make it seem like an awesome thing when they do it to some other nub and then they come to the forums and complain that all a deception sin needs to do is use maul and they win when this could not be further from the truth.

[SlimsPicken]

funny how all anyone remembers is the 11k crits when the majority of mauls are 4k-5k non crits...

 

maul relies heavily on crit, and crit was nerfed, so getting big mauls is not a guarantee. Plus using it when its not procced just leads to low damage/high force cost maul which is not worth the resource.

 

Maul is fine. stop turning your back on assassins if you keep getting stabbed in it.

[scraycroft]

People are so quick to cry nerf these days. The opener is all they have, survive those 3 seconds and its a lollacaust.

[vimm]

no, he's arguing that maul can't be spammed at all. He didn't say anything about any costs or detriments.

 

In terms of costs/detriments though, even without the procs or crits, each maul still hits for 3-5k. So 3k damage x 6 mauls = 18k damage, and that's assuming you get 6 really terrible hits in a row, which is about as unlikely as getting 6 really great hits in a row. Then if the 7th procs, another 8k, 26k total damage. You're only out of force when you hit the 7th maul, but with a regen rate of 10-14 force per second depending on dark embrace, you'll have a good amount of your resources back after a few seconds.

 

Even if dark embrace isn't up and you're only at the 10fps rate, the enemy is still likely going to be under 30% hp and you could just saber strike them to death til you have enough force for shock.

 

Personally, I don't have any problems with maul, and since they nerfed the shock damage, it's only right that they buffed another ability, in this case, maul.

 

Spamming Maul like that is unbelievably idiotic; have fun with that.

[foxmob]

Maul is fine. stop turning your back on assassins if you keep getting stabbed in it.

not arguing that there's anything wrong with maul, but you don't really need to be behind a person to use it. it's like 180 degrees. very very easy. nigh impossible to avoid.

 

for the life of me, I can't get off a backblast with such easy. not sure why. but maul...angle is no deterrent.

Edited May 9, 2013 by foxmob

[Raansu]

You people still complaining about this? The ability cannot be spammed, end of story. Assassins only have 100 force(110 is they pick the talent in deception). Maul cost 50. Their opener (deception) reduces the cost but after they spike, maul, discharge,shock....by that time they're pretty low on force and are most likely either using combat stealth to reopen or popping blackout to regain force and using low slash to get another proc. At BEST they are getting 3 mauls if duplicity procs between spike/low slash auto proc. I'd hardly call that a spammable ability considering anything outside of duplicity will deplete all force with two mauls.

 

Madness or Darkness? There is no way in hell they will be spamming that move. So yes, too all the people complaining....it is 100% L2P issue...or should I say learn to educate issue since most of you are ignorant on 99% of the abilities and procs in this game. The same people complaining in this thread will be the same people calling a sentinel or a scoundrel(scrapper) a speed hacker when they pop transcendence or sneak.

[Drazzen]

You people still complaining about this? The ability cannot be spammed, end of story. Assassins only have 100 force(110 is they pick the talent in deception). Maul cost 50. Their opener (deception) reduces the cost but after they spike, maul, discharge,shock....by that time they're pretty low on force and are most likely either using combat stealth to reopen or popping blackout to regain force and using low slash to get another proc. At BEST they are getting 3 mauls if duplicity procs between spike/low slash auto proc. I'd hardly call that a spammable ability considering anything outside of duplicity will deplete all force with two mauls.

 

Madness or Darkness? There is no way in hell they will be spamming that move. So yes, too all the people complaining....it is 100% L2P issue...or should I say learn to educate issue since most of you are ignorant on 99% of the abilities and procs in this game. The same people complaining in this thread will be the same people calling a sentinel or a scoundrel(scrapper) a speed hacker when they pop transcendence or sneak.

 

There's so many things wrong with this post, it's hard to know where to begin. (and as was mentioned, this isn't even using the 50 force set bonus for 160 total) I'm wondering if you even read any of the previous posts. First, your math is ridiculous. Coming straight out of stealth, you're getting 15 force regen. So in essence your spike (or spinning kick is free) so you're effectively starting the fight with 110 force. That makes your first maul/shadow strike cost...(wait for it) 12.5 force. Oh...but wait. for 6 seconds (out of stealth) you're gaining 12 force per second *so effectively still full force* *110); next maul is 50 force, putting you down to 60...BUT you're still regenning about 18 force per GCD. So back up to 78. -and that's if you don't get the duplicity proc. If you do you're still over 100 force. third maul (minimum 46 force) max around 96. 4th maul (force negative, for about half a second, then around 8 force min or 64 max. (more than likely you would have gotten one duplicity proc).

 

Then you pop blackout/dark embrace and you're back to 18 force regen for another 4 GCDs. So 5th maul either can't be done (force deficient) or you get another one off and then perhaps another(which is the 5-7 calculation). Worst case scenario pop free force stun/electrocute. they'll probably break, but by then you'll be back in manageable force range (to at least low slash) whoa another 4 seconds where you can LOL. By that point, either proc could be available again meaning here comes the 6th and 7th maul. Problem? Force stealth, sleep dart LOL again while you regen not only your force and health (assuming you even need to) Go stealth again, spinning kick (even if resolve is full, get the proc) Start maul chain all over again.

 

So by the STRICTEST definition no, it cannot be spammed ad nauseum. but with hits between 3k-9k (people always forget the armor penetration from Darkness), it can be chained repeatedly.

 

Now, is this the best rotation...No absolutely not. But let's not get it twisted, it can be used like this, out of stealth and is extremely easy to position behind/side an enemy. Would you rage... if there was no CD on Smash *even if it didn't auto crit* and could be used even 3x in succession? What about Rail Shot? or Annihilate? Exactly.

 

But don't worry, because you also have auto-crit discharge and Shock in the bank, which OMG will increase your crit chance by 9%! suddenly those 20% procs are getting closer to 30%!!!

 

No Assassin worth their salt will lose a 1v1. only exception (maybe) is to a Powertech that has rockets that can interrupt the regen phase.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Drazzen

[Raansu]

There's so many things wrong with this post, it's hard to know where to begin. (and as was mentioned, this isn't even using the 50 force set bonus for 160 total) I'm wondering if you even read any of the previous posts. First, your math is ridiculous. Coming straight out of stealth, you're getting 15 force regen. So in essence your spike (or spinning kick is free) so you're effectively starting the fight with 110 force. That makes your first maul/shadow strike cost...(wait for it) 12.5 force. Oh...but wait. for 6 seconds (out of stealth) you're gaining 12 force per second *so effectively still full force* *110); next maul is 50 force, putting you down to 60...BUT you're still regenning about 18 force per GCD. So back up to 78. -and that's if you don't get the duplicity proc. If you do you're still over 100 force. third maul (minimum 46 force) max around 96. 4th maul (force negative, for about half a second, then around 8 force min or 64 max. (more than likely you would have gotten one duplicity proc).

 

Then you pop blackout/dark embrace and you're back to 18 force regen for another 4 GCDs. So 5th maul either can't be done (force deficient) or you get another one off and then perhaps another(which is the 5-7 calculation). Worst case scenario pop free force stun/electrocute. they'll probably break, but by then you'll be back in manageable force range (to at least low slash) whoa another 4 seconds where you can LOL. By that point, either proc could be available again meaning here comes the 6th and 7th maul. Problem? Force stealth, sleep dart LOL again while you regen not only your force and health (assuming you even need to) Go stealth again, spinning kick (even if resolve is full, get the proc) Start maul chain all over again.

 

So by the STRICTEST definition no, it cannot be spammed ad nauseum. but with hits between 3k-9k (people always forget the armor penetration from Darkness), it can be chained repeatedly.

 

Now, is this the best rotation...No absolutely not. But let's not get it twisted, it can be used like this, out of stealth and is extremely easy to position behind/side an enemy. Would you rage... if there was no CD on Smash *even if it didn't auto crit* and could be used even 3x in succession? What about Rail Shot? or Annihilate? Exactly.

 

But don't worry, because you also have auto-crit discharge and Shock in the bank, which OMG will increase your crit chance by 9%! suddenly those 20% procs are getting closer to 30%!!!

 

No Assassin worth their salt will lose a 1v1. only exception (maybe) is to a Powertech that has rockets that can interrupt the regen phase.

 

Yeah? And at most you're going to get 3-4 mauls, and pretty much only one is going to crit, if you're lucky maybe 2. Anyone who "spams" maul in such a manner is stupid, especially if you are on an opener and have recklessness available...Your typical opener if you "spam" maul you will only get 2 mauls in before needing to use blackout.

 

If you want to talk spammable go look at tracer missiles back in the day when that was literally the only ability you needed to faceroll everyone before they changed it in 1.2

[dufox]

the problem is you have people who are in the 54 and under bracket talking to the 55 bracket.

 

lol if your 55 you know maul is not broken in the slightest.

its not even be considered one of your best abilities when your 55

[Drazzen]

the problem is you have people who are in the 54 and under bracket talking to the 55 bracket.

 

lol if your 55 you know maul is not broken in the slightest.

its not even be considered one of your best abilities when your 55

 

This is not true in the slightest. It is definitely considered one of the best abilities...Even if it's 3rd *which it isn't* it's still top 3.

 

And yes in lvl 55 pvp it is in fact a problem

Edited May 9, 2013 by Drazzen

[dufox]

This is not true in the slightest. It is definitely considered one of the best abilities...Even if it's 3rd *which it isn't* it's still top 3.

 

And yes in lvl 55 pvp it is in fact a problem

 

not sure what to say to this lol

 

spam shadow strike/maul for 3-4k while the enemies trying to kill you (meaning if the enemy isnt a noob he is kiting you).

use shadow strike/maul like your supposed to along with clairvoyant strike, project, force breach.

 

if you choose option 1, your either gonna die, get lucky or have help killing your target.

if you choose option 2, your a big part of your teams dps.

 

in what world would spamming maul be considered OP when by definition, if you spam it your less effective.

[Drazzen]

Yeah? And at most you're going to get 3-4 mauls, and pretty much only one is going to crit, if you're lucky maybe 2. Anyone who "spams" maul in such a manner is stupid, especially if you are on an opener and have recklessness available...Your typical opener if you "spam" maul you will only get 2 mauls in before needing to use blackout.

 

If you want to talk spammable go look at tracer missiles back in the day when that was literally the only ability you needed to faceroll everyone before they changed it in 1.2

 

If it's an opener, you're more than likely coming out of stealth with a spin kick meaning first maul is, essentially free. Look at my post again. but to simplify it. 4 mauls (with only 1 proc) 12.5 force, 50 force, 50 force, 50 force.

=162.5 force.

 

6 seconds (4 GCDs) of force regen at 18 force/second = +72 force

110+72 = 182 force. *And we forgot to mention that if Surging Charge procs that's an addt'l 10 force added*

4 mauls with no addt'l proc and no blackout needed (as it's triggered from your opener)

[Drazzen]

not sure what to say to this lol

 

spam shadow strike/maul for 3-4k while the enemies trying to kill you (meaning if the enemy isnt a noob he is kiting you).

use shadow strike/maul like your supposed to along with clairvoyant strike, project, force breach.

 

if you choose option 1, your either gonna die, get lucky or have help killing your target.

if you choose option 2, your a big part of your teams dps.

 

in what world would spamming maul be considered OP when by definition, if you spam it your less effective.

 

I'm not saying, nor did I ever advocate spamming maul.

 

Kite an assassin? not sure what to say to that.

Last I checked there's only 1 true kiting class and that's a Sorc/Sage. Maybe an argument could be made for a lethality op/sniper.

 

Again, what would you say if Smash could be used 3x in a row? would that be too much?

[dufox]

I'm not saying, nor did I ever advocate spamming maul.

 

Kite an assassin? not sure what to say to that.

Last I checked there's only 1 true kiting class and that's a Sorc/Sage. Maybe an argument could be made for a lethality op/sniper.

 

Again, what would you say if Smash could be used 3x in a row? would that be too much?

 

your comparing an aoe with auto crits to an ability that is single target and is not auto crit...

im sorry, by kiting i mean not standing still letting you spam maul in his back...

 

why complain about the 7-8k chance of a crit when you could complain about the forcebreach/project auto crit that does on average 11k damage almost instantly...

 

edit:

and further... using maul 3x in a row is spamming.

Edited May 9, 2013 by dufox

[Drazzen]

your comparing an aoe with auto crits to an ability that is single target and is not auto crit...

im sorry, by kiting i mean not standing still letting you spam maul in his back...

 

why complain about the 7-8k chance of a crit when you could complain about the forcebreach/project auto crit that does on average 11k damage almost instantly...

 

because the thread is about maul. Believe me I have issues with those as well.

 

Smash doesn't have to be AoE. It can be single target. It was an example. Ok, here's another example. Imagine if HIB/Rail Shot could be cast 3x in a row.

 

Spike knocks you down for 2 seconds, enough for 2 mauls. if the player does turn? force speed strafe maul again. Force stun, maul again. low slash, maul again. And why do so many people assume you have to be BEHIND the target? remember maul is allowed from the side of the attack as well. pretty much anything behind the center of mass of the toon. And you also don't have to be facing the target completely, just not completely 180 degrees from it.

[Drazzen]

 

edit:

and further... using maul 3x in a row is spamming.

 

we're not arguing the definition of spammable, I said above in the definitive sense of the word it isn't. But you agree, as your edit describes that it can be spammed. (No CD).

[dufox]

we're not arguing the definition of spammable, I said above in the definitive sense of the word it isn't. But you agree, as your edit describes that it can be spammed. (No CD).

 

one day you will under stand that what your describing is the least effective way someone can dps with an assassin.

untill then we are gonna have to agree to disagree.

 

ill say it one more time, stop instantly hating maul and consider what im saying.

 

if i was to attack you, (the republic version of imperial skills) use spinning kick, shadow strike, shadow strike, low slash shadow strike i would be force starved (which leads to using blackout ridiculously early for more force)and you would be roughly half way dead give or take a little.

 

if i was to attack you and use spinning kick, shadow strike, force potency, force breach, project, low slash, shadow strike you would be dead or very very close to death.

 

in ALL scenarios, the 2nd rotation (WHERE SHADOW STRIKE IS NOT SPAMMED) will ALWAYS be a tremendous amount more dps.

 

it is more dps (or very close) to use clairvoyant strike x2 then project than it is to use shadow strike, shadow strike, shadow strike. AND USING THE CLAIRVOYANT STRIKE ROTATION YOU DONT END UP BEING FORCE STARVED.

 

the bottom line is maul is not broken, in fact when a shadow/assassin starts attacking you... you want them to try spamming maul on you.

[Drazzen]

Actually, here's where we do agree. I don't think spamming maul is effective. of course the rotation *the proper rotation* you described is ideal and the maul spam should NEVER be used. That's not what's in question.

 

And yes. I'd prefer for an assassin to be maul happy.

 

But you didn't answer my question, do you think having a high impact ability *shadow strike, force sweep, merciless slash, high impact bolt* with the potential to be chain cast, as broken? NO reason maul should hit for upwards of 9k and it is quite possible to hit 9k 9k 7k 7k (force starved at the end or not)

 

the last 7k is from spinning strike.

[Raansu]

Actually, here's where we do agree. I don't think spamming maul is effective. of course the rotation *the proper rotation* you described is ideal and the maul spam should NEVER be used. That's not what's in question.

 

And yes. I'd prefer for an assassin to be maul happy.

 

But you didn't answer my question, do you think having a high impact ability *shadow strike, force sweep, merciless slash, high impact bolt* with the potential to be chain cast, as broken? NO reason maul should hit for upwards of 9k and it is quite possible to hit 9k 9k 7k 7k (force starved at the end or not)

 

the last 7k is from spinning strike.

 

*possible* means never. Outside of dupicity, maul rarely hits higher than 3k. And no, there is nothing OP about any of those abilities. The average HP now is 30k+ and healing atm is through the roof. Health goes up, naturally hits are going to go up.

[Xertasian]

even though maul is not op..it can hit very hard on occasions..here are a few ss of the maul crits i had gotten on people..i didnt proc these 24/7..got lucky i guess with rng..

 

http://i855.photobucket.com/albums/ab115/Xert_2010/Screenshot_2013-05-08_19_47_01_042569_zps0007c3ed.jpg..this 1st ss ws for 9.9k..

 

http://i855.photobucket.com/albums/ab115/Xert_2010/Screenshot_2013-05-02_19_42_06_996254_zps5bb42516.jpg..this 2nd ss was for 10k..

 

http://i855.photobucket.com/albums/ab115/Xert_2010/Screenshot_2013-04-11_16_47_34_398008_zps06836ae0.jpg..this 3rd one was like for 9.4k..

 

as you see it can hit big but its not guaranteed..people talking about using the 50 force set..no good pvp sin gonna use that over stalker..cause 3 charges of recklessness pretty much guarantee u will get the proc for chain shock..which is much better than having 50 extra force anyday..

[Drazzen]

even though maul is not op..it can hit very hard on occasions..here are a few ss of the maul crits i had gotten on people..i didnt proc these 24/7..got lucky i guess with rng..

 

http://i855.photobucket.com/albums/ab115/Xert_2010/Screenshot_2013-05-08_19_47_01_042569_zps0007c3ed.jpg..this 1st ss ws for 9.9k..

 

http://i855.photobucket.com/albums/ab115/Xert_2010/Screenshot_2013-05-02_19_42_06_996254_zps5bb42516.jpg..this 2nd ss was for 10k..

 

http://i855.photobucket.com/albums/ab115/Xert_2010/Screenshot_2013-04-11_16_47_34_398008_zps06836ae0.jpg..this 3rd one was like for 9.4k..

 

 

as you see it can hit big but its not guaranteed..people talking about using the 50 force set..no good pvp sin gonna use that over stalker..cause 3 charges of recklessness pretty much guarantee u will get the proc for chain shock..which is much better than having 50 extra force anyday..

 

Thank you for posting these. Proves that you can hit for over 30k in 3 mauls. (edit: actually 26k, obv not all 3 of these are one right after the other)

 

Also, 3 charges of recklessness might seem useful, but on a discharge, dbl shock proc they're gone anyway. A lot of people would rather have the 50 extra force *not saying I'm one of them* but the extra recklessness usually gets wasted by the second shock. It's preferable to not have the dbl shock crit twice.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Drazzen

[Raansu]

Thank you for posting these. Proves that you can hit for over 30k in 3 mauls. (edit: actually 26k, obv not all 3 of these are one right after the other)

 

Also, 3 charges of recklessness might seem useful, but on a discharge, dbl shock proc they're gone anyway. A lot of people would rather have the 50 extra force *not saying I'm one of them* but the extra recklessness usually gets wasted by the second shock. It's preferable to not have the dbl shock crit twice.

 

Based on your first sentence I feel that you are a troll.

 

Based on everything else....You must be terrible at pvp.