amneonx Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 I normally don't complain here or in game, but I have grown increasingly irritated by people not playing their roles right or not following boss mechanics. I have a 55 Powertech Tank, and a 55 Sorcerer Healer(Was DPS for a while), so I have filled all roles @ 55. I decided to go back to healing because I was having to heal any ways. QUEUE AS YOUR SPEC This one is pretty self-explanitory. Don't queue as a DPS Juggernaut if you are geared and specced as a tank. Doing so slows down the DPS and can cause enrage timers. Also, Don't queue as heals if you are planning on DPSing. Queue as what you are, or respec before the run. HEALERS That is your primary job, Heal. Do that before all else, you are not DPS. Please don't let me die because you are to busy DPSing. You waste resources(Force, Heat, Energy) if you are doing a lot of DPS. When you waste resources, you decrease the amount of healing you can do. DPS My biggest issue with DPS is that they think they are tanks. I can not stand it when a Sniper pulls before the tank, or a Marauder jumps into battle before the Tank is ready. If you don't allow the tank to grab aggro, than the healer has to work harder healing you and the tank. It's easier on the healer to concentrate on one person, and throw heals to others when needed. Also, if you think your going to DPS-tank the whole FP while I'm healing, I promise you will die.I would rather use my resources to heal someone that knows their role. Additionally, If the Healer is having to DPS, that means there is something wrong with your rotation, or build. Healer shouldn't have to focus on your job. I was in TFB SM over the weekend, and we were on phase 1 of the final boss, and I along with the healers were DPSing the adds, while the rest of the DPS stayed on tentacles. If they are busy with adds, they aren't healing. If they aren't healing, you aren't staying alive. TANKS Aggro and Taunts. I haven't had many bad tanks, but these are the issues I do see. Again, if the healer has the aggro, they are healing themselves, in order to stay alive to heal you. Taunt off of them. DPS can handle some standard/weak enemies, and maybe some strongs depending on their gear. But if you can hold as many Strongs/Elites/Champions, you will be better off. LOOTING Simply put, don't be a ninja looter. Need if you need, Greed if you don't. While it's no one elses job to decide if you NEED gear for your companion, don't need against someone needing for themselves for it. Generally if I want something for a companion, I ask if its ok to look for companion just because it makes everything easier. No one wants to play with a ninja looter. DON'T BE CRAPPY TO PEOPLE I was in a 55 FP the other day and the DPS was being crappy. Pulling and screaming "Spacebar....Spacebar Please.... SPACEBAR PLZ!.... OMG SPACEBAR DAMMIT..... ITS NOT THAT GREAT OF A CUT SCENE". I had an issue with this person earlier that day when they were forming a Hardmode EV Ops group. Tank was doing some things and it was "Hurry, Are you on your way yet?..... You can do that later..... OHMUHGERD HURRY THE **** UP". When they started in the FP, I voted to Kick. No one wants to play with someone if they are going to be crappy. After they got kicked, they messaged me with "Why do you hate me so much?" and I told them I didn't like their attitude. They continued for a few minutes, and I blocked them. Two minutes after I blocked them, they bothered me on another character, and I did it again, and they bothered me on a 3rd character. No one wants to play with you if your a PSYCHO! We didn't date, I didn't get you pregnant. Don't act like the obsessive girlfriend. /rant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjonxb Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 (edited) My main is a tank and I agree with most of this. As a tank. If DPS pull I wont pull agro off them. Most of the time when this happens the other dps and healer follow suit and wait for them to die. I grab after afterwords and we continue. After this we get rage DPS claiming I don't know how to tank or the healer cant heal blah blah blah. Ultimately said DPS gets kicked. As far as being a healer in TFB SM. It is my understanding that the ads that spawn after the Tentacles have to be killed very fast. So as a healer you need to DPS them down to help. Even as a tank I have to switch to DPSing them down. Edit: Just re-read that you said phase 1. my bad Edited May 2, 2013 by ninjonxb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlon_Nabarlly Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 (edited) I agree with this, but need to add a few things: DPS - Attack weakest to strongest - If CC is used, don't break the CC (more of an OPs concern than FPs, but still) Tanks - YOUR GUARD IS FOR THE BEST GEARED DPS, NOT THE HEALER. I see this all the time and it's usually first sign of a bad tank. Guarding hearlers should only be done in PvP or on rare exceptions (example healer is way over geared and both DPS have super crappy gear, places where there is a lot of no aggro adds or aoe damage) I find it odd that the OP says they rarely see bad tanks, the majority of tanks I get while queuing are bad. I may just be more noticing of it because I tank from time to time and I used to consider that my main spec. Edited May 2, 2013 by Arlon_Nabarlly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjonxb Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 I agree with this, but need to add a few things: DPS - Attack weakest to strongest Tanks - YOUR GUARD IS FOR THE BEST GEARED DPS, NOT THE HEALER. I see this all the time and it's usually first sign of a bad tank. Guarding hearlers should only be done in PvP or on rare exceptions (example healer is way over geared and both DPS have super crappy gear, places where there is a lot of no aggro adds or aoe damage) I find it odd that the OP says they rarely see bad tanks, the majority of tanks I get while queuing are bad. I may just be more noticing of it because I tank from time to time and I used to consider that my main spec. If he mostly plays his tank then he wouldn't see many other tanks. As far as guarding. Generally when I first get in I guard the healer and I see how things go with the DPS. Looking at how good someones gear is not worth it since gear is not really an indicator of who is going to put out more DPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unchanging Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Some people don't know how to play as well as you. If you have a problem with a particular person it would probably be in your best interest to teach that person what they need to know. If they aren't smart enough to learn their class by playing or searching for information than they will probably never see your post here. I'm not trolling you, just trying to help you. I understand your frustration and try to help those that just don't have a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amneonx Posted May 2, 2013 Author Share Posted May 2, 2013 If he mostly plays his tank then he wouldn't see many other tanks. As far as guarding. Generally when I first get in I guard the healer and I see how things go with the DPS. Looking at how good someones gear is not worth it since gear is not really an indicator of who is going to put out more DPS. I either play as my tank, or queue with a tank from my guild. So I guess I don't normally set myself up for the disappointment of bad tanks. I've had some pretty good PUG tanks though as well. I thought of the CC thing while I was writing, but than some how it just slipped my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlon_Nabarlly Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 As far as guarding. Generally when I first get in I guard the healer and I see how things go with the DPS. Looking at how good someones gear is not worth it since gear is not really an indicator of who is going to put out more DPS. I have seen this practiced as well and this is acceptable. It's the people that only guard the healer, no exceptions. I played recently with a tank who guarded the healer and I was constantly pulling aggro off him (even with my threat drop on CD). He starts yelling at me for it. This is the same guy who when we got to the giant dog boss on Athiss couldn't position and got thrown around like a rag doll the whole time. I gave him the helpful suggestion of positioning in the doorway and he claimed he had a better spot across the area no where near where the adds spawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Is this another "no one knows how to play the game but me" QQ thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjonxb Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Also, If you have one. Please for the love of everyone. Learn to use your threat wipe(heal and dps). It is needed more then ever in 55 HM FP's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rothie Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Honestly, my biggest problem with FP queues is idiot DPS queuing as tanks/heals for the timer. I tried 4 different times yesterday to get my daily/weekly done and had the same **** happen each time. Some random ******* popping in an saying, oh Im listed as a tank, but Im really DPS, I queued as a tank so I didn’t have to wait an hour or two. I have no problems with a tank queuing as DPS really. Yea, they might not be the best DPS ever, but at least they CAN perform the role somewhat. A DPS as a tank is a waste of a slot period. The System should lock you in to the role your tree points say you’re performing. Have 30+ points in a DPS tree, you’re only allowed to queue as DPS period. Same for Healing and Tanking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amneonx Posted May 2, 2013 Author Share Posted May 2, 2013 Is this another "no one knows how to play the game but me" QQ thread? No where do I say that I am the best player in the game. I simply stated a few brief issues that I have had lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjonxb Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Is this another "no one knows how to play the game but me" QQ thread? Actually this is a thread calling out what each role does that they shouldn't... Something that many many people in this game (including cap level people who think they are elite) need to read and I wish Bioware would do something more official like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rothie Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 If he mostly plays his tank then he wouldn't see many other tanks. As far as guarding. Generally when I first get in I guard the healer and I see how things go with the DPS. Looking at how good someones gear is not worth it since gear is not really an indicator of who is going to put out more DPS. ^^^^^ This. I generally guard the healer for the first two or three pulls. If one of the DPS grabs agro Ill swap to that DPS instead of the healer. If neither do, I keep the healer guarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syas Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 I agree with this, but need to add a few things: DPS - Attack weakest to strongest - If CC is used, don't break the CC (more of an OPs concern than FPs, but still) Tanks - YOUR GUARD IS FOR THE BEST GEARED DPS, NOT THE HEALER. I see this all the time and it's usually first sign of a bad tank. Guarding hearlers should only be done in PvP or on rare exceptions (example healer is way over geared and both DPS have super crappy gear, places where there is a lot of no aggro adds or aoe damage) I find it odd that the OP says they rarely see bad tanks, the majority of tanks I get while queuing are bad. I may just be more noticing of it because I tank from time to time and I used to consider that my main spec. Agree above, I just wanted to touch on Healer's DPSing as a Tank/Healer. Unless it is an Ops/HM55 Group, I will not complain about my Healer DPSing until there is an issue. Especially on Daily 50 runs, or alts or what not, Healers can toss out some DPS without compromising healing (mostly Commando/Merc / Smugg/Op), as long as they are smart and know how to play, I trust them to do it. Sure I may finish a boss fight at 15% health, but we finished the fight. If I stay off the ground, they did their job as far as I am concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Actually this is a thread calling out what each role does that they shouldn't... Something that many many people in this game (including cap level people who think they are elite) need to read and I wish Bioware would do something more official like this. What, exactly, should BWEA do about it, institute mandatory group role training? It's a game. And how often do these threads pop up? Do they make any difference? Are they ever going to make a difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikinai Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Funny, my issues with people has nothing to do with a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelinCarnate Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Honestly, my biggest problem with FP queues is idiot DPS queuing as tanks/heals for the timer. I tried 4 different times yesterday to get my daily/weekly done and had the same **** happen each time. Some random ******* popping in an saying, oh Im listed as a tank, but Im really DPS, I queued as a tank so I didn’t have to wait an hour or two. I have no problems with a tank queuing as DPS really. Yea, they might not be the best DPS ever, but at least they CAN perform the role somewhat. A DPS as a tank is a waste of a slot period. The System should lock you in to the role your tree points say you’re performing. Have 30+ points in a DPS tree, you’re only allowed to queue as DPS period. Same for Healing and Tanking. Yea, because you cant have gear for both roles and be able to respect once the queue pops..... oh wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colemak Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 One more thing I'd like to add is that when everyone on the team is at low-ish health, it's ok for the dps capable of healing to help out the healer. Not saying the dps has to be healing constantly, but if both your tank and healer is getting pounded , you should give them a hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rothie Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Yea, because you cant have gear for both roles and be able to respect once the queue pops..... oh wait. If this was actually happening, then it wouldn't be an issue. The problem is, they DON'T have the correct gear, or field respec, and force everyone to wait on a proper tank/healer, or leave and re-queue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rothie Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 One more thing I'd like to add is that when everyone on the team is at low-ish health, it's ok for the dps capable of healing to help out the healer. Not saying the dps has to be healing constantly, but if both your tank and healer is getting pounded , you should give them a hand. most low level flash points up to around level 40 you can run with 4 DPS if they know what theyre doing. its those post 40, and mostly the 50+ that are the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gannacus Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Slightly to the side of the topic but it happens fairly often, is the impatient Tank Im a Combat Medic with Armstech, so i constantly scavenge the 55 FP's for Mythra and the like. Each of which takes 2.9 seconds to scavenge - and in those 2.9 seconds the impatient Tank has inevitably taken off down the passageway and has engaged the next group - which means A: it will now take me longer to get there due to combat mode, even with a 30% speed boost from Hold the Line and B: is so far gone by the time I get there, the line between keeping up and playing catch up is often passed - energy management is shot before we even began. Mandalorian Raiders and the dog section is the hardest part of that flashpoint for that reason. Fast run is a good run alright, but not if we keep wiping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSchuyler Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 (edited) What, exactly, should BWEA do about it, institute mandatory group role training? It's a game. And how often do these threads pop up? Do they make any difference? Are they ever going to make a difference? I think they do help. I'm a fairly new player who still struggles with the lingo and the acronyms. It took me a couple of weeks to understand that my bars, by and large, did not contain "things," but mostly abilities. I didn't understand medpacs, heroic moments, or energy vs. health. Tanks and healers? *** are those? But reading these threads teaches me and I learn a little with each one. Mind you I'm not exactly enamored with the emotional rhetoric both against weaker players and Bioware, but if you are like this OP and attempt to explain rather than just complain I think it is valuable. Edited May 3, 2013 by MSchuyler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrobearx Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 . The System should lock you in to the role your tree points say you’re performing. Have 30+ points in a DPS tree, you’re only allowed to queue as DPS period. Same for Healing and Tanking. indeed this would fix the queue issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nateslice Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 (edited) Another way DPS can really aid the group is by helping to protect the healer. Anything attacking the healer should generally be top priority for at least one of the DPS. This doesn't mean you have to stand idle and wait for something to go after the healer; just sort of keep an eye out while you're doing your job. Don't think, "Aw, it's just a Normal; he can handle it." Sure, he could, but it'd be a lot faster for a DPS to take care of the situation. And while the healer's messing with that Normal, it's a lot harder for him to heal the tank. No sense making the tank drop what he's doing to protect the healer when a DPS will do just as well; besides, cleaning up those weaker enemies that are most likely to aggro the healer is your job, anyway. Just keep an eye out and change targets as needed, and you'll make things a lot easier for everyone. Edited May 3, 2013 by nateslice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric_Riot Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 I normally don't complain here or in game, but I have grown increasingly irritated by people not playing their roles right or not following boss mechanics. I have a 55 Powertech Tank, and a 55 Sorcerer Healer(Was DPS for a while), so I have filled all roles @ 55. I decided to go back to healing because I was having to heal any ways. QUEUE AS YOUR SPEC This one is pretty self-explanitory. Don't queue as a DPS Juggernaut if you are geared and specced as a tank. Doing so slows down the DPS and can cause enrage timers. Also, Don't queue as heals if you are planning on DPSing. Queue as what you are, or respec before the run. HEALERS That is your primary job, Heal. Do that before all else, you are not DPS. Please don't let me die because you are to busy DPSing. You waste resources(Force, Heat, Energy) if you are doing a lot of DPS. When you waste resources, you decrease the amount of healing you can do. DPS My biggest issue with DPS is that they think they are tanks. I can not stand it when a Sniper pulls before the tank, or a Marauder jumps into battle before the Tank is ready. If you don't allow the tank to grab aggro, than the healer has to work harder healing you and the tank. It's easier on the healer to concentrate on one person, and throw heals to others when needed. Also, if you think your going to DPS-tank the whole FP while I'm healing, I promise you will die.I would rather use my resources to heal someone that knows their role. Additionally, If the Healer is having to DPS, that means there is something wrong with your rotation, or build. Healer shouldn't have to focus on your job. I was in TFB SM over the weekend, and we were on phase 1 of the final boss, and I along with the healers were DPSing the adds, while the rest of the DPS stayed on tentacles. If they are busy with adds, they aren't healing. If they aren't healing, you aren't staying alive. TANKS Aggro and Taunts. I haven't had many bad tanks, but these are the issues I do see. Again, if the healer has the aggro, they are healing themselves, in order to stay alive to heal you. Taunt off of them. DPS can handle some standard/weak enemies, and maybe some strongs depending on their gear. But if you can hold as many Strongs/Elites/Champions, you will be better off. LOOTING Simply put, don't be a ninja looter. Need if you need, Greed if you don't. While it's no one elses job to decide if you NEED gear for your companion, don't need against someone needing for themselves for it. Generally if I want something for a companion, I ask if its ok to look for companion just because it makes everything easier. No one wants to play with a ninja looter. DON'T BE CRAPPY TO PEOPLE I was in a 55 FP the other day and the DPS was being crappy. Pulling and screaming "Spacebar....Spacebar Please.... SPACEBAR PLZ!.... OMG SPACEBAR DAMMIT..... ITS NOT THAT GREAT OF A CUT SCENE". I had an issue with this person earlier that day when they were forming a Hardmode EV Ops group. Tank was doing some things and it was "Hurry, Are you on your way yet?..... You can do that later..... OHMUHGERD HURRY THE **** UP". When they started in the FP, I voted to Kick. No one wants to play with someone if they are going to be crappy. After they got kicked, they messaged me with "Why do you hate me so much?" and I told them I didn't like their attitude. They continued for a few minutes, and I blocked them. Two minutes after I blocked them, they bothered me on another character, and I did it again, and they bothered me on a 3rd character. No one wants to play with you if your a PSYCHO! We didn't date, I didn't get you pregnant. Don't act like the obsessive girlfriend. /rant ^^^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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