The weird people you meet in Group Finder.

[rantboi]

You look at the first line of my point, skip all of the reasoning, and then say I'm being unreasonable.

 

I'm curious, why do you comment on posts you don't read?

 

I did read it, all i saw was that you look at someone's hp to determine if they're geared enough and also seem to be one of the people who think you must have at least 192 stuff for a hm60 fp. even with the crappy high endurance comms gear 48,5k would not be undergeared for a damn flashpoint.

[idnewton]

I did read it, all i saw was that you look at someone's hp to determine if they're geared enough and also seem to be one of the people who think you must have at least 192 stuff for a hm60 fp. even with the crappy high endurance comms gear 48,5k would not be undergeared for a damn flashpoint.

 

I'll give you one more chance. Consider that you're wrong, read my post again, then edit your posts as you see fit.

 

Meanwhile, I would like to introduce you to a fascinating concept. It's called a "conversation". It involves speaking and listening, output and input, typing and reading. If the speaking/output/typing part is missing, it's called an "observation". If the listening/input/reading part is missing, it's called a "rant". Which figures, I guess, considering your name

Edited May 5, 2015 by idnewton

[rantboi]

this is mainly what i was talking about:

I'm just saying, 48.5k with augments isn't that much, and probably isn't ready for HM Flashpoints that are known to be difficult (as I've gathered from the related posts)

 

that IS a ridiculous claim. but then again you also said that you haven't run those flashpoints much yourself and think they are difficult because some people on forums are saying they are, so whatever. do them all a few times and you'll see how wrong you are.

[mephistosaurus]

rakata tfp. Group is my jugg tank, sin tank, sorc dps and op dps (I did find it quite ironic when gf popped with 2 tanks and then we get a mission with 2 un-tankable enemies).

 

Op dps doesnt have sprint on (he is level 60) so is lagging behind and the pulls are usually over by the time he gets to us. At the first boss the op stands just outside the door, the sin writes "get in". The op throws his hot on all of us, but only 1-stack, then aggro dumps (we arent in combat) then evasion, ballistic shield then I dont know what because the sin got bored of waiting and pulled.

 

The sin was tanking the rancour and my soresu form with aggro rotation wasn't ripping off him so I decided, as im not tanking, to switch to sii-cho to get rid of my resource gen and damage debuff from soresu.

 

Not long in the sin writes "this is going to take ages thanks to that idiot"

me: "well at least you aren't being unnecessarily rude"

sin: "I suppose idiot is abit strong"

me: "yeah, though I found the throwing of every DCD he had rather strange considering we weren't even in combat"

sin: "that was abit weird"

 

We beat the first boss, the 3 of us proceed to complete the mission between us as the op still doesn't have sprint on so never gets to the pulls by the time we kill them. Second boss the op dps's at range and the third too. I consider pointing out op dps is melee but its late and I cba (I have a feeling explaining things to this guy will be a long process). I thank the group and leave, the sin whispers me apologising for not letting me tank anything fun (he tanked all the bosses and I just picked up stragglers on trash) which I wasn't concerned about anyway.

 

Long time reader here, and I wonder how you keep getting these "Gems" lol?

[LuxDragon]

rantboi = wrong

 

idnewton = right

 

The guy may have been in less than basic gear for his HP to be that low. At best, he may have only been in NiM DP/DF gear, 186 stuffs. Say what you want rantboi, but the math is solid.

 

And speaking as a long time veteran of those flashpoints, it's not hard to find people that struggle in them.

 

That being said, being undergeared doesn't equal underperformance. Knowing your class and following the mechanics, plus a lot of skill, means a ton and often makes up for lack of gear.

 

I was jumping around the new 60 HM's, and skipping basic gear to go straight into 192's, in a mix of HM/NiM 55 ops gear. My group once looked at my guardian and asked if I could hold my own when I took a random GF pop. I asked for them to give me a chance to prove it, and if I screw up, I'd leave, no hard feelings. A few mob pulls later, the tank apologizes, tells me I'm a good player, puts a guard on my 44k butt over the 48k sage, and we mush on through HM Manaan with no problems.

Edited May 5, 2015 by LuxDragon

[idnewton]

this is mainly what i was talking about:

 

 

that IS a ridiculous claim. but then again you also said that you haven't run those flashpoints much yourself and think they are difficult because some people on forums are saying they are, so whatever. do them all a few times and you'll see how wrong you are.

Heeeey you decided to be reasonable after all. You deserve some respect for that.

 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

you also said that you haven't run those flashpoints much yourself

Yes, here:

I'm not a frequent HM FP runner

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

and think they are difficult because some people on forums are saying they are

Yes, as I felt Manaan fell into the category of:

HM Flashpoints that are known to be difficult (as I've gathered from the related posts).

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

speaking as a long time veteran of those flashpoints, it's not hard to find people that struggle in them.

Agreed, and this is why such gear is:

enough to get most people to kick you.

even if you don't deserve to be kicked for that reason alone.

 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

That being said, being undergeared doesn't equal underperformance.

Agreed:

I'm not saying you're a scrub or can't pull your own weight in gear like that

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Knowing your class and following the mechanics, plus a lot of skill, means a ton and often makes up for lack of gear.

This is true, but:

such gear also suggests a lack of experience with the content

While it's true that knowledge (and skill) can make up for gear, this:

Crafted 186 implants.

Armorings: vendor 186/192. 192 offhand. Crafted 186 MH hilt. All vendor 186/192 enhancements replaced with low endurance crafted 186s. I have said it before multiple times: I don't have access to unlettered 186 mods on any of my Cybertechs

suggests a lack of experience with the content, implying that his ability probably won't be enough to compensate for the lack of gear.

 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

To summarize,

being undergeared doesn't equal underperformance

but such gear also suggests a lack of experience with the content, and those two pieces of information together are enough to get most people to kick you

even if you don't deserve to be kicked for that reason alone.

Edited May 5, 2015 by idnewton

[Halinalle]

I don't stalk this thread (or any thread, for that matter) and memorize people's gear or gearing ability. I'm just saying, 48.5k with augments isn't that much, and probably isn't ready for HM Flashpoints that are known to be difficult (as I've gathered from the related posts).

 

If you have 48,500 HP, then without the Bounty Hunter buff you'll have roughly 46,200 HP. Subtract 4760 from that (14 augments x 34 endurance each x 10 for the rough hp gain per point of endurance) and you're sitting at somewhere around 41,440 HP (assuming you didn't take the Endurance & Healing Received utility). The fact of the matter is, the tertiary stats of a 41k-42k HP character aren't going to be that great. Augments and a Hunter's Boon will get you up to 48.5k HP, but at the end of the day you're still walking into the instance with the tertiary stats of a 42k HPer, which is doubly bad as a healer. I'm not a frequent HM FP runner but that sounds pretty undergeared to me, especially since 3.0 gave tertiary stats a much more important role in the early stages of gearing. When you're sitting at the bottom of the barrel going into HM FPs, it's hard to blame the people who notice.

 

I'm not saying you're a scrub or can't pull your own weight in gear like that, but such gear also suggests a lack of experience with the content, and those two pieces of information together are enough to get most people to kick you.

 

http://i.imgur.com/NfwKH5e.png

http://i.imgur.com/LslyMOD.png (just few examples of how far I've gone to ignore endurance)

 

So, basically you're saying that I should stack endurance?

Actaullay, it's something like 49,3 or something like now. Sorry, I don't pay attention to hp on dps characters. Yes, I'm noob.

 

So, how do I should get better gear oh so great master of MMOs?

Edited May 5, 2015 by Halinalle

[BobFredJohn]

A few mob pulls later, the tank apologizes, tells me I'm a good player, puts a guard on my 44k butt over the 48k sage, and we mush on through HM Manaan with no problems.

 

Now thats strange. A tank who decides to judge whether or not someone knows how to play based upon their hp and yet knows where to put a guard? Sounds far-fetched to me lol.

 

It often seems when people go "oh you have #k hp therefore you know nothing what-so-ever about anything at all" tend to be the ones who know even less.

 

For example I had a guild member call for group for HM 60, I was on my jugg and offered myself as a tank. I had 52k hp - mix 186/192 9/14 augmented, though the fact that this is with end heavy armouring/hilt (albeit the incorrect augments, no such thing as defence/end so have defence/power because basic comm gear is lacking in defence compared to other 2) would suggest that 49k on a dps is probably around 186 (tbh my 9/14 sent with full 186 was sub 50k). They took 1 look at my hp (they were on yavin and me in personal stronghold so no way they inspected) and said undergeared. I pointed it out in guild chat and they say "full 186 tank gear is 55k. Just another person who is clueless about every aspect of gearing but decides they should dictate who is good enough to bask in their magnificance.

 

Luckily the guild took my side when I took a rather unpleasant tone with this tard (if they had gone against me I would likely have been kicked). It was along the lines of "well you may be the sort of noob that needs full 198 6-piece set to do korriban HM. However I took the time to l2p so I can do it in 186." (ofc they didnt have 198 6-piece set, they were dps with 42k hp (telling me I was undergeared lol).

 

Though I would disagree with Idenown when he said "low gear suggests new to the content". I would hazard a guess, though correct me if I am wrong, quite afew people run alts. Just because some bloke has 186 with not 192 set piece things doesnt mean he has never done an op, it means he gets unlucky with pug loot roles or played it on different class (though that does raise the question if they played different class, did they play different role).

Edited May 5, 2015 by BobFredJohn

[LuxDragon]

Stack endurance all you like. As the FP progresses and it's shown you suck, you'll be kicked later, rather than immediately.

 

Basic stuff will put you at 47-48k easily. Elite gets you 50-51k. Ultimate gets you 52-54k. Min/maxing sits at 49-51. At the very least, you have enough mainstat to not be a burden, even if it's endurance heavy crap. Power/crit/surge/accuracy are the point of the FP's, but you have to be good enough to get there or have a group willing to carry you.

 

And I was pulling aggro off the tank, Bob. Which is why I got the guard. Cause I know my rotations to squeeze out my DPS.

Edited May 5, 2015 by LuxDragon

[Halinalle]

Stack endurance all you like. As the FP progresses and it's shown you suck, you'll be kicked later, rather than immediately.

 

Basic stuff will put you at 47-48k easily. Elite gets you 50-51k. Ultimate gets you 52-54k. Min/maxing sits at 49-51. At the very least, you have enough mainstat to not be a burden, even if it's endurance heavy crap. Power/crit/surge/accuracy are the point of the FP's, but you have to be good enough to get there or have a group willing to carry you.

 

And I was pulling aggro off the tank, Bob. Which is why I got the guard. Cause I know my rotations to squeeze out my DPS.

 

What would you great master suggest then?

Only endurance high stuff I have are mods (ones that are crafted by cybertechs).

 

I'm ready to bet that you ignored the fact that I'm using Power augments instead of mainstat augments.

 

No, Basic stuff doesn't give 48k. My Scoundrel has 41,5k in 186/190 (unoptimized, 186s are high endurance) and she kills elites on Ziost in around 10 seconds each.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Halinalle

[BobFredJohn]

And I was pulling aggro off the tank, Bob. Which is why I got the guard. Cause I know my rotations to squeeze out my DPS.

 

What I mean was, if someone is going to throw a tantrum over hp, their knowledge of the game is probably below the level of knowing where to stick guard to use it properly.

[WDA_Compy]

Sometimes having patience is hard to come by, but ultimately the patience in the long run will be worth it. Everyone was a noob once, and those that have been playing for a long time forget that now and then *chuckle*

[BobFredJohn]

Sometimes having patience is hard to come by, but ultimately the patience in the long run will be worth it. Everyone was a noob once, and those that have been playing for a long time forget that now and then *chuckle*

 

A story from my levelling process to which this applies, as I should have held this attitude, but didn't.

 

I get a pop for mando sm on my 26 scoundrel in 25 blue mod gear. The group was lvl 26 shadow tank and 2 sents, 1 lvl 26 1 lvl 24. Zone in and we do the 3 enemies from the lift, however nobody had gone near the door leading to the mission so it was still closed. All 3 of them stand still and ask where to go. I can tell already this will be interesting.

 

I run toward the door an it opens, then tank jumps into the next pull and within 2 gcd's are at around 40% hp. I throw 1 heal on them and get all aggro on all enemies. We complete the pull with me spam healing myself. Second pull goes the same, thats when I notice the shadow tank has a single bladed sabre. I inspect them:

head: nothing

body: level 6 green

hands: empty (no armouring, mod or enhancement) orange

belt: empty orange

legs: empty orange

feet: empty orange

offhand: level 3 green focus

mainhand: orange single bladed sabre, lvl 13 mods

wrist: empty orange

They have 1.7k hp. Out of interest, my healer has 4.7k, the 24 sent has 2k and the 26 sent has 1.8k (from chat it seems all 3 are friends who are working together to complete story missions, explains how people in that type of gear got to 26).

 

I ask the shadow if they would mind switching to a shield and double sabre. They ask how, I tell them about the backpack when they first chose shadow and wonder if they had recieved a shield from any story mission up to lvl 26. They say they dont have any. I reply "well this will certainly be interesting, lets see how we go". I decide to check their role and ask the shadow "which discipline are you in?". They say they dont know what I am going on about, I ask again "did you click kinetic combat on the list of 3 things". Eventually I discover they hadnt chosen one at all, so I describe the symbol to them and they enter a discipline, so do the 2 sent who up to now hadn't either. Ironically, after they have specced the shadow has clearly chosen a dps one (even though they chose it inside a fp where they were set as tank).

 

We carry on and I rip and hold 100% of aggro in every pull off my first heal. Tbh with the gear of the other 3 this is probably preferable as I imagine healing through their damage would be difficult. Then we get to the first boss.....

 

I doubt I need to say what happened, considering their gear and them being new to the mission (not knowing where to go right at the start because the door was closed). After the first try of the first boss I write:

 

"sorry, im going to go. I suggest you 3 speak to your guild about gearing, roles and gameplay. Have fun, bye" and I drop out.

 

Now I could have explained those things myself, but I just decided I couldn't be bothered so I will let their guilds do it (whether they asked or not I dont know, but for now thats not my problem).

 

12xp, I must admit the first 12xp I didnt have it as I didnt pre-order so played with my endgamers and never ran into previous 12x'ers. The strangest thing was I mentioned it in guild and 2 people actually told me I was being elitist for not explaining things to them. Tbh no matter how much I explained the stuff they didnt know, there was no way we would have completed the fp.

Edited May 5, 2015 by BobFredJohn

[Romeugues]

Trying to get my Op to 55, currently at 54, I did the class story and makeb before yesterday so I only managed to get Ilum. Anyway I got another level with dailies and KDY so gear up with 148s and 156s and que up for HM FPs for the daily, as heals. Get in Ilum HM and a sorc said they changed specs to heals and forgot to change their role, so I change mine to DPS and the tank still isnt here, guess they hit no to travel there. I look at their HP pools and noticed the tank has like 12k health, dude is wearing 116 and worse gear, we do 2 or 3 pulls where everyone but me dies, quickly(I finish the pull), and then I tell them the tank is undergeared and leave.

Oh and I healed for one of the KDY and we got the major and a Sniper decided he didnt want to go to the stations for the handful of grenades, so I healed for one of them and then decided not to afterwords, he didn't say a word surprisingly. I told him to follow basic mechanics next time I thanked the group after we 3 manned it.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Romeugues

[idnewton]

So, basically you're saying that I should stack endurance?

See yourself out the door, please. Words are lost on those who do not read. Edited May 6, 2015 by idnewton

[Halinalle]

See yourself out the door, please. Words are lost on those who do not read.

 

Let's try again then...

 

48.5k

 

49.186

 

and probably isn't ready for HM Flashpoints that are known to be difficult

 

How did I then complete Korriban HM twice with suboptimal rotation. Yeah, other dps was ranged but that shouldn't matter.

 

then without the Bounty Hunter buff you'll have roughly 46,200 HP

 

47.162

 

Subtract 4760 from that (14 augments x 34 endurance each x 10 for the rough hp gain per point of endurance) and you're sitting at somewhere around 41,440 HP (assuming you didn't take the Endurance & Healing Received utility).

 

Without BH buff only way for me to get to 41,5k is to remove earpiece and one of the implants.

Sorry, what utility? No, really. I have difficulties finding that. Only ones that are even remotely close are 30% AoE damage reduction (Defensive Roll), internal/elemental damage reduction (Defensive Forms, Juyo Form) and Saber Ward heal when attacked (Blood Ward).

[idnewton]

Let's try again then...

 

 

 

49.186

 

 

 

How did I then complete Korriban HM twice with suboptimal rotation. Yeah, other dps was ranged but that shouldn't matter.

 

 

 

47.162

 

 

 

Without BH buff only way for me to get to 41,5k is to remove earpiece and one of the implants.

Sorry, what utility? No, really. I have difficulties finding that. Only ones that are even remotely close are 30% AoE damage reduction (Defensive Roll), internal/elemental damage reduction (Defensive Forms, Juyo Form) and Saber Ward heal when attacked (Blood Ward).

Hahahaha... ex post facto arguments are the best.

 

How pathetic.

[WDA_Compy]

Arguing.. just for the sake of arguing

[Daivee]

Everything is augmented: Power 186 (most) + 2 Surge 186 + 2 Accuracy 186. Crafted 186 implants.

Armorings: vendor 186/192. 192 offhand. Crafted 186 MH hilt. All vendor 186/192 enhancements replaced with low endurance crafted 186s.

I'd call that overgeard for a HM FP.

HM FP have a requirement of rating 178 though I'd say that this might be a little low for the harder FP if you don't know your class and preferably also the FP perfectly.

With rating 186 basic gear you are already slightly overgeared for HM FP. That is especially true if you use the good crafted enhancements and crafted implants and ear that have low endurance and high relevant stats.

 

Sometimes I wonder how fast peopel forget their first runs after a new level cap. In december we were happy if someone other than the tank hit 48k as we were all running in our old rating 180 raid gear

 

BTW: my Mando with 6/6 192s, crafted implants, ear and relic and crafted 186 MH has less than 50k HP without the HP-talent. I just have not picked up all the endurance crons

[Halinalle]

Arguing.. just for the sake of arguing

 

It's kinda weird that some players say in other thread and even in-game that it's fine for HMFPs and SM Ops.

Then there are these "you must have 50k hp as healer to queue for Manaan HM" players.

 

Yesterday I did Rakata tactical and I was literally tanking on my 44k Scoundrel (186/190, unoptimized) when everyone else had over 50k. Surrender and DA+Sneak on cooldown. I even apologized for my noobness and not knowing how to play my class.

 

Not surprising since even Corso has trouble keeping aggro in 192s.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Halinalle

[BobFredJohn]

Arguing.. just for the sake of arguing

 

What I find most funny is idnewtons view that anybody who disagrees with him is automatically wrong because they arent reading, yet proceeds to completely ignore the other bloke posted photos of their gear, all above 186 with 49.5k hp lol.

 

The point is full 186 comms gear with 9/14 mk-10 augments is less than 50k hp, my sent used to be geared as such, but I cant remember the figure. Considering that recommended gear (granted recommended gear has always been quite low but surely if bw say its possible in certain gear then its possible) is 178.

 

Having said that, 2 178 geared dps in blood hunt (I think hailine mentioned it was that 1) will struggle with the enrage timer on first boss. Even 2 186 geared dps is cutting it fine.

Edited May 6, 2015 by BobFredJohn

[Fidelicatessen]

What I find most funny is idnewtons view that anybody who disagrees with him is automatically wrong because they arent reading, yet proceeds to completely ignore the other bloke posted photos of their gear, all above 186 with 49.5k hp lol.

 

Thanks for pointing that out, Bob. If you hadn't, I was going to.

[idnewton]

What I find most funny is idnewtons view that anybody who disagrees with him is automatically wrong because they arent reading, yet proceeds to completely ignore the other bloke posted photos of their gear, all above 186 with 49.5k hp lol.

 

The point is full 186 comms gear with 9/14 mk-10 augments is less than 50k hp, my sent used to be geared as such, but I cant remember the figure. Considering that recommended gear (granted recommended gear has always been quite low but surely if bw say its possible in certain gear then its possible) is 178.

 

Having said that, 2 178 geared dps in blood hunt (I think hailine mentioned it was that 1) will struggle with the enrage timer on first boss. Even 2 186 geared dps is cutting it fine.

 

That's great, except you're just as guilty of not reading. Do you understand the concept of 'ex post facto'? No, I didn't think so. You should look that up, and then apologize.

Edited May 6, 2015 by idnewton

[Robtheace]

Yeah you get peeps that list their role as heals or tank while they are dps spec. Its annoying.

[Cox_The_Beast]

Yesterday I was levelling my second Marauder, going Carnage this time. I got to the point where I could run the "Call to Arms" quest, the mission for the Boarding Party and The Foundry FPs. At first, I remained queued for it for about 3/4 of hte afternoon, about 3h or so, levelling up in the mean time. So much in fact I got to be able to queue for both, while at first I had only "Cademimu" and "Boarding Party".

 

Anyways, when the team finally popped out for Boarding Party, I saw the team was me, together with a Deception Assassin at 39, an Op Healer at 36 and a PT Tank at 35. At the time I was 36 myself. I notice the Tank has Jugg armor, but with the new outfit designer I assumed it was just for looks. Well, I was halfway right: he had that armor actually equipped, and while armorings were all Aim+Endurance, mods had Strength+Defence. I guess he was low on Comms and was swapping Strength out gradually.

Still, that made him have lots more trouble than he should have with Tanking, me and the Assassin were constantly ripping aggro, and he didn't guard anyone no matter how much we asked. Good thing both me and the Assassin knew how to survive.

 

Still, we went through Boarding Party nicely, no wipes. The Healer did a great work keeping us all alive, we DPS peeled off her all the time, in return, and she was grateful. Nothing to note here except that on the bonus boss we had a nice awkward moment where I, a 36 Marauder, survived a core discharge - my mistake, I was trying to down the second droid fast, since it was pummelling on the Healer - while the Tank died to it from pretty much full health.

I feared a wipe in there, I admit. But with me downing the last droid and the Assassin "tanking" the Healer kept us both up till the boss died. Final boss went down without trouble.

 

Still, a nice run in the end, so much in fact that we went through The Foundry together again. We had little trouble in there aswell, we only wiped twice. The first wipe was to HK, because it bugged out producing new droids each second, pretty much, the second one was on the giant K'lor'slug, because of the fact teh Healer wasn't there at start - she fell back to click the generators we forgot to turn off, and the Tank spawned the bonus boss.

Still, this time teh Tank actually played better, regardless of those Strength mods, and even without guard actually kept some enemies on him - usually the gold and one silver, but after all weaker enemies are DPS work.

 

Revan was extremely satisfying for me, as I was constantly on top of the threat table regardless of taunts from the Tank and the Assassin, when I was getting low. I of course used Force Camouflage on CD, but to no avail, apparently. I guess my dmg was good?

 

All in all, glad I had the queue pop, tbh, but also amazed at how we took it nicely as a team, always cooperating, spreading aggro, peeling off the Healer and offtanking when the Tank was low. Happens rarely, especially as of late, to see a team actually coordinate the playstyle to get through a mission, most of the times ppl just quit at the first hint of trouble...

 

TL;DR: Nice, fun run of Boarding Party and Foundry with a PT Tank with partially wrong gear, but with the team that actually treated it as a challenge and worked arond the problem of aggro managing, rather than just quitting at the first sign of trouble.